Absolutely Unimpressed with Balancing Beads

[MiCarl]

I'll agree that most of the balancing seems to be for the wheel, rather than the tire.

 

In my shop we find the heavy spot on a tubeless rim rather than assuming it's at the valve. Often that is still the heavy spot after mounting a tire with its light spot there. When the heavy spot on the assembly does move it generally requires very little weight to bring it back in balance.

 

Based on what I see come in the door most riders are unable to tell by feel if the tires are balanced or not. When they think they have a balance problem it's generally the wheel or tire.

[Sylvester]

I have run dyna beads 2 oz. in front and rear tires for 140,000 miles with Dunlop D404 tire. Never a problem and have just installed Shinko 777 with dyna beads.

 

[bongobobny]

I have a sneaking suspicion of who may have texted Puc and why, someone taking exception of Puc's opinion on something...

[videoarizona]

I have a sneaking suspicion of who may have texted Puc and why, someone taking exception of Puc's opinion on something...

 

 

...and you would be right. What's interesting is if you read the conversation...there really isn't anything there to get upset about. But I guess this guy doesn't like people expressing opinions that aren't in line with his. But I think I'll should drop this and move on. Not worth the aggravation.

[Venturous Randy]

I have swapped out many front and rear tires on my 1st gen and except for a couple times, I have mounted them myself and have balanced them. I use the old axle thru the wheel bridged on jack stands method and have never had a problem. I have also found that the tires seem to be more perfect than the wheels as the weights always seem to end up in the same place.

I have also had wheels/tires machine balanced and not be satisfied with the results and rebalanced them myself.

Randy

[MiCarl]

I have also had wheels/tires machine balanced and not be satisfied with the results and rebalanced them myself.

Randy

 

If the machine is out of adjustment or the operator doesn't set it properly it's useless. Your method will work as long as gravity works, and if gravity fails your tires being balanced will be low on your list of worries.

[djh3]

Once my tube type tires were gone I quit trying to get them buggers to go thru the valve stem. I get the tire to bead up first, then break the bead in a small spot and pour them in and reseat. As far as someone contacting Puc because he expressed an opinion thats BS. Why not just PM or hash it out like the rest of us. GEEZE For the love of........ What if Puc let us know who it was, and we bombard his in box?

[cimmer]

I used ride-on in my motorcycle tires last time I change them. http://www.ride-on.com/motorcycle-formula-mot.html

I like the idea of them sealing a leak and providing some balancing to the tires. But honestly, it was the penetration protection I was after. I did find they did a good job with balancing and I do plan on using this again when it is time to change out my tires.

I have not tried the beads and at this point most likely wont as I am happy with what I am using.

 

Rick F.

[uncledj]

Read thru the thread, and didn't see anyone question the shocks / springs, or steering head bearing.

Just axing if that could be the issue....don't want to suffer from tunnel vision here.

Just sayin'

[cowpuc]

Read thru the thread, and didn't see anyone question the shocks / springs, or steering head bearing.

Just axing if that could be the issue....don't want to suffer from tunnel vision here.

Just sayin'

Maybe cause Cha said his scoot didnt pick up it's case of high speed shakes until he stuck the new shoe on its front end Unc:missingtooth:

[RDawson]

Once my tube type tires were gone I quit trying to get them buggers to go thru the valve stem. I get the tire to bead up first, then break the bead in a small spot and pour them in and reseat. As far as someone contacting Puc because he expressed an opinion thats BS. Why not just PM or hash it out like the rest of us. GEEZE For the love of........ What if Puc let us know who it was, and we bombard his in box?

 

Oh the things I would've done with the phone number he texted from if it had been me. Puc's much nicer than I am.

[Flyinfool]

:confused24:OK Back to the topic at hand.

I was bored so I pulled out my trusty calculator.

 

On a first gen some tire data for the front tire running at 80 MPH;

 

Size - MR90-18

Outside diameter - 26.4"

RPM - 1034.262

RPS - 17.268

Centrifugal force at the tire surface - 394.662 Gs

 

And the rear tire at 80 MPH;

 

Size - MU90B16

Outside Diameter - 25.72

RPM - 1075.633

RPS - 17.927

Centrifugal force at tire surface - 410.448Gs

 

It is the Centrifugal force that is most interesting. At about 400 Gs that means that for every pound of tire there is 400 lbs of force trying to tear that tire apart just from the RPM and not even considering the loads on the tire. Unfortunately Dunlop does not list the weight of a tire in their specs so the actual force can not be calculated. But just using a WAG of 20 lbs would put it at ~8000 lbs of force trying to tear that tire apart.

 

I wonder if your tire could have a weak spot in the inner cords that is allowing the tire to stretch in a spot as the RPMs come up creating a slight bulge, or out of round, that disappears as the speeds drop back down???? :confused24:

 

Now if this were the case, not only would the tire be a bigger diameter at that point which can create a vibration, but the weight of the tire being farther from the axel will give it a higher effective weight, contributing to the vibration. AND would also create a deformity in the inner surface of the tire which would have higher Gs and attract all of the balancing beads, further adding to the imbalance vibration. Again I am not a tire expert and this is all just a WAG (Wild Ass Guess) on my part.

[Eck]

You can all say Im nuts, but these are the type of beads I have used in my tires for the past 5 years...Just dump 3 to 4 oz in each tire and put air it in. I have never had an issue and the same beads are used over and over when I change tires. I just drill a 1/2 hole intot he old tire, turn it over and pour the beads out into a funnel and bottle..then dump them into the new tire I am replacing it with.

 

At $1.99 a box you cant beat the price...found them at Hobby Lobby

[cowpuc]

:confused24:OK Back to the topic at hand.

I was bored so I pulled out my trusty calculator.

 

On a first gen some tire data for the front tire running at 80 MPH;

 

Size - MR90-18

Outside diameter - 26.4"

RPM - 1034.262

RPS - 17.268

Centrifugal force at the tire surface - 394.662 Gs

 

And the rear tire at 80 MPH;

 

Size - MU90B16

Outside Diameter - 25.72

RPM - 1075.633

RPS - 17.927

Centrifugal force at tire surface - 410.448Gs

 

It is the Centrifugal force that is most interesting. At about 400 Gs that means that for every pound of tire there is 400 lbs of force trying to tear that tire apart just from the RPM and not even considering the loads on the tire. Unfortunately Dunlop does not list the weight of a tire in their specs so the actual force can not be calculated. But just using a WAG of 20 lbs would put it at ~8000 lbs of force trying to tear that tire apart.

 

I wonder if your tire could have a weak spot in the inner cords that is allowing the tire to stretch in a spot as the RPMs come up creating a slight bulge, or out of round, that disappears as the speeds drop back down???? :confused24:

 

Now if this were the case, not only would the tire be a bigger diameter at that point which can create a vibration, but the weight of the tire being farther from the axel will give it a higher effective weight, contributing to the vibration. AND would also create a deformity in the inner surface of the tire which would have higher Gs and attract all of the balancing beads, further adding to the imbalance vibration. Again I am not a tire expert and this is all just a WAG (Wild Ass Guess) on my part.

 

 

You can all say Im nuts, but these are the type of beads I have used in my tires for the past 5 years...Just dump 3 to 4 oz in each tire and put air it in. I have never had an issue and the same beads are used over and over when I change tires. I just drill a 1/2 hole intot he old tire, turn it over and pour the beads out into a funnel and bottle..then dump them into the new tire I am replacing it with.

 

At $1.99 a box you cant beat the price...found them at Hobby Lobby

 

OUTSTANDING ECKSTER!!!!:thumbsup:

 

I will DEFINITELY give them a shot!!!!!!:thumbsup:

[Chaharly]

You can all say Im nuts, but these are the type of beads I have used in my tires for the past 5 years...Just dump 3 to 4 oz in each tire and put air it in. I have never had an issue and the same beads are used over and over when I change tires. I just drill a 1/2 hole intot he old tire, turn it over and pour the beads out into a funnel and bottle..then dump them into the new tire I am replacing it with.

 

At $1.99 a box you cant beat the price...found them at Hobby Lobby

 

 

I'll just pick up a handful of gravel and throw it in there!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I decided to take do as puc says. Spin the tire 180 degrees on the room. If that doesn't do it i'll be taking the tire off and removing the beads and static balancing the wheel myself. I think I understand how to do it from cowpuc's video. It seems easy, but maybe time consuming. Dunlop has not contacted me back, but I'm sure they're busy. If its still rough after that, I'll be looking into a new tire!

[Chaharly]

Read thru the thread, and didn't see anyone question the shocks / springs, or steering head bearing.

Just axing if that could be the issue....don't want to suffer from tunnel vision here.

Just sayin'

 

Yessir, had the wind to my back about a week before i put the E4 and was 120mph in 5th smooth as butter:amen:

[Rick Haywood]

On the back tire you can go up to 3 oz's And you do not have to break the bead to put them in. By a 4 oz kit and it comes with the bottle and tube to install through valve stem. I have run the beads for about 12 years and 250.000 miles with no problems til the last set of tires. I ended up having to take the beads out and balance them the old fashion way to get rid of my vibrations.

[7 lakes]

On the back tire you can go up to 3 oz's And you do not have to break the bead to put them in. By a 4 oz kit and it comes with the bottle and tube to install through valve stem. I have run the beads for about 12 years and 250.000 miles with no problems til the last set of tires. I ended up having to take the beads out and balance them the old fashion way to get rid of my vibrations.

 

I almost always replace valve stems with new, and have found that although the diameter of the valve core is standardized, the diameter of the air passage into the wheel below the valve can vary and can be smaller than the valve diameter. I make sure I buy stems with the larger diameter air passage, so if I don't throw the beads in while mounting the tire for some reason, then they go through the stem pretty easy. Also, I make sure that there isn't any moisture in the valve from recently blowing a bunch of air through it, condensation can build up in the valve pretty quickly and it doesn't take much to make the beads bunch up and plug the hole.

 

While I've had good luck with the Counteract beads, I spent a few years in the tire business and have seen new, quality tires that required anything from almost nothing up to so much weight that we dismounted the tire and sent it back to the manufacturer. Tires are not nearly the precise feat of engineering that the manufacturers want us to think they are, there are plenty of marginal ones shipped and mounted. I'm sure it happens all the time that beads won't do the job and the assembly can only be balanced with weights. In my opinion the beads are capable of moderate balancing but beyond a certain point you've got to get mechanical with it.

 

I'm personally a little suspicious of any tire or wheel combo that requires a lot of weight to balance. A good friend of mine hit the pavement at around 100 mph when the front wheel on his bike came apart. It was a brand new bike and the factory was very responsible and paid all his bills, lost wages, refunded the price of the bike and gave him a new replacement, etc etc. He survived with a partially disabled arm and was back riding before the cast came off. Total lunatic. Anyway, my point was the factory said the dealer shouldn't have mounted the wheel / tire combo after the amount of weight it took to balance it. That's always stuck with me, and the less it takes to balance a bike tire the happier I am.

Edited June 15, 2018 by 7 lakes

[BlueSky]

Something occurred to me about balancing beads. Most gas stations today have these tankless air compressors and by not having a tank when they compress air, if the humidity is high that day, condensation may occur. So, it's probably not a good idea to use tankless air compressors to pump up bike tires that have beads in them. The moisture may contribute to the beads sticking together. This also includes those small compressors that plug into a 12 volt outlet on the bike or auto.

 

Those of us who have an air compressor with a tank know that we should drain the water out of the tank periodically.

[7 lakes]

Something occurred to me about balancing beads. Most gas stations today have these tankless air compressors and by not having a tank when they compress air, if the humidity is high that day, condensation may occur. So, it's probably not a good idea to use tankless air compressors to pump up bike tires that have beads in them. The moisture may contribute to the beads sticking together. This also includes those small compressors that plug into a 12 volt outlet on the bike or auto.

 

Those of us who have an air compressor with a tank know that we should drain the water out of the tank periodically.

 

Not to mention dessicant filters everywhere. It gets spendy.

[tomephil]

I used ride-on in my motorcycle tires last time I change them. http://www.ride-on.com/motorcycle-formula-mot.html

I like the idea of them sealing a leak and providing some balancing to the tires. But honestly, it was the penetration protection I was after. I did find they did a good job with balancing and I do plan on using this again when it is time to change out my tires.

I have not tried the beads and at this point most likely wont as I am happy with what I am using.

 

Rick F.

 

I'm on my 2nd back tire with Ride-on. My front has ride-on as well.

So far it has worked great for me.

The only negative I know of is it may be an issue after 3 seasons but I normally need a new tire before that time.

Edited June 18, 2018 by tomephil
spelling

[jasonm.]

I find this funny that some people don't go " that fast", aka go over the speed limit. Sometimes you need to gas it for whatever reason. A few states have 75mph speed limits or more. So a tire that , especially the front feeling out of balance at 80 is an issue. I just put the counteract beads in tonight due to an 80+mph issue. I will see if it corrects it in the morning. Yes it was spin balanced repeatedly. It's a dunlop, Dunlop won't help because you ain't supposed to go that fast ...even with a tire rated for 130mph. This is my last DLOP. ..........FYI- beads will not correct a lateral weight issue, aka left-right.

[djh3]

I have used the beads since about 2008. 3 different bikes of different weights and loads and no problems. I now have TPMs on the Victory and couldnt run the liquid stuff. If the tire has a lateral issue I dont think lead, steel or anything else is going to help that.It would be like the sidewall separating.