Valve adjustments

[Dano]

OK, done with the bottom end, everything but middle gear cover on (hookup hose to clutch slave cylinder), time to check the valves. Gotta pick up some feeler guages tomorrow (metric or standard?), then tomorrow night get'ter done. Huge question----- got the loaner kit from BuddyRich (Thanks KYCaveman & BuddyRich), how does the tool work? Before I screw something up, book doesn't show, all it says is to install it, then rotate the cam to remove it.

Also, with timing mark on T1, lobes are laying just off to the side of the intake and exhaust valves. After measurement, do you turn the lobes up, or what? Searched for a thread on this but could not find one. Last item to do before buttoning up the motor and moving on to the frame and everything else.

 

Thanks,

Dan

[buddy]

Dan If your tool looks like mine? (shape of a letter "J" ) it fits between the cam lobes. The tool hooks around the bottom side of the cam lobes with the straight part pointing the the same direction as the leading edge of the cam lobe. Rotate the cam with the bottom side toward the lifters as you rotate it the tool will catch the edge of the lifters and push them down giving you just enough room to check your gap. The leading edge of the cam lobe when checking your gap should be pointing in the up direction. as you look at your lifter or lifters you will see a slot where you can remove your shims out of the lifter. When rotating the cam make sure to place the lifter in a spot to where you can get a pick or small screwdriver in the slot on your lifter to remove the shim once the tool is engaged.

 

Buddy

[Dano]

So when you're checking your gap, it's from the "bottom" of the lobe, not the point of it? With the timing mark on T1, looking at cyl. #1, the exhaust lobe is just rotating off the back side of the lifter and the intake lobe is just starting to contact the leading edge of the lobe. My brain is still thinking about adjusting solid lifters from the "old days" with rockers, etc. Maybe it's stopping me from grasping this easily.

 

Dan

[Marcarl]

When you can see all of them at once, it doesn't matter where the timing mark is, what is needed is that the lobes are away from the lifters, at this point you measure and don't use the tool for this. It's really no different than doing it with rockers, but the adjustment is different, you need to replace the disc and that's where the tool comes in.

So, you make a drawing (make sure you mark where the front is), number all the valves and cylinders leaving space for more important numbers, now you measure and mark down whether they are tight or loose and by how much. (When it's tight it's not always easy to figure how tight,use a thinner feeler and when it's loose you can use a thicker feeler to figure that one out). Now that you have that info you can take all the dics out that are out of speck. Each disc will have it's thickness stamped on the bottom, now mark down this number. From this info you can figure out what the new thickness needs to be and so you need to obtain these dics. If the numbers are worn off you will need a micrometer to measure them. Insert the new dics in the proper spots, turn the engine over a few times and check the clearances again. If all is well, you're done.

Maybe more info than necessary, but I hope it helps.

[Squeeze]

Hi Dan, you check the Gap on the "bottom" of the Cam. Bottom means no Elevation of the Cam Profiles.

 

You can easily check the TDC of the Piston when you put a long Screwdriver through the Plug Hole and feel the Piston moving and not only rely on the Timing Marks on the Flywheel.

 

You have to watch out if the Piston is in Compression Revelation or in the Exhaust Revelation. You should check the Valves when the Piston is in Compression which is given when the Cams both IN and EX Cams face outwards and all four Valves are loose.

 

Please watch the the printed Numbers on the Shims. The Side with the Number should be placed into the Bucket. If you let them face to outside, the Numbers are gone immediately, which would lead to a Bummer the next Time your on to this Job.

[buddy]

Yes checking gap is from the bottom side of your lobes not from the tip...Forget about the timing marks as you check the gap on the lifters.. Timing has nothing to do with the gap on your shims. Just go around your motor and check each set of lobes exhaust or intake using your gauge & tool. Once you have done your check and changed any shims. Then you can worry about your cam & timing marks...

[Dano]

Thanks everybody, now I understand. It's kinda what I thought I would do, but needed verification before I started. Don't want to screw something up without knowing how to screw it up!!!!!

 

Dan

 

Wish this manual was written by somebody that actually worked on the bike, not some desk jockey!!!

[Venturous Randy]

Another point on these discs is many times you can move one that is a little tight to one that is a little loose. Just be real careful not to rotate the cam without a disc in it as the edge of the cam lobe can come in contact with the lip where the disc goes. It can score the cam lobe. I have found than one of these small magnets that go in your pocket works good to get the discs out. Make sure the disc and the area where the disc lays is completely clean. Anything, such as rag lint can make you think the clearances are too tight.

RandyA

[Dano]

Ok, HUGE problem I think, or hope not....... Inboard exhaust valve on #4 cylinder does NOT stay up-------can pull it up, drops right back down, do I have a broken spring in there????????? Am I gonna have to pull the head to fix it????? There goes another week!!!!!

 

HELP

 

Dan

[Dano]

Ok, 15 minute update,,,, for some reason, after rotating the motor a few times,,,, the cup is now coming up under spring tension,,,, BTW my bad, it was cylinder #3, not 4. PHHHHEEEEEWWWWW, hope it's OK...

 

Dan

[buddy]

Ok, HUGE problem I think, or hope not....... Inboard exhaust valve on #4 cylinder does NOT stay up-------can pull it up, drops right back down, do I have a broken spring in there????????? Am I gonna have to pull the head to fix it????? There goes another week!!!!!

 

HELP

 

Dan

 

Does not sound good, You have two springs inboard and outborad springs. Sorry I cannot help you any futher guess I been lucky never had to go that far on my valves, sounds like RandyA or rocket needs to step in and help you out on this one....

 

buddy

[Dano]

Does not sound good, You have two springs inboard and outborad springs. Sorry I cannot help you any futher guess I been lucky never had to go that far on my valves, sounds like RandyA or rocket needs to step in and help you out on this one....

 

buddy

 

Buddy, you and I posted same time, check post right b4 yours. Might be lucky. Oh, should have said bucket, not valve. I'll get this c**p right one of these days. Spur of the moment, you know.

[Squeeze]

Any good or bad News ??

[Dano]

Have not seen a difference overnight, it really freaked me out--- only thing I can think is after sitting upside down for 3 weeks, that somehow the valve stem was temporarily stuck in the guide, don't recall if I've ever seen that before, but doesn't mean it can't happen. Wonder if I could try a compression check on the bench?

Exhaust valves are all reading tight--- .102mm-.152 mm...... should start at .16 and go up to .20, so I probably gotta change those....... Intakes are all within tolerance.

 

Dan

[Squeeze]

Have not seen a difference overnight, it really freaked me out--- only thing I can think is after sitting upside down for 3 weeks, that somehow the valve stem was temporarily stuck in the guide, don't recall if I've ever seen that before, but doesn't mean it can't happen. Wonder if I could try a compression check on the bench?

Exhaust valves are all reading tight--- .102mm-.152 mm...... should start at .16 and go up to .20, so I probably gotta change those....... Intakes are all within tolerance.

 

Dan

 

Dan, your Theory has something. Not the 'sitting upside down' but the the 'temporarily stuck' Part. Don't think too hard about that, those Engines have Character and this is what you get back. Or you can re engineer the Valve Train and switch over to Desmodromic ... :):)

 

Don't mess with the Clearances, better set them an the loose Side than too tight. They get thighter anyway. Compression check on the Bench ? Would work, but why ?

 

Your Motor was running fine, so let it go, if you check the Compression and find something not perfect, your Mind tells you to undo the Heads, check the Valve Seats, regrind them in the Seats, new Valve Stems Seals. That would lead to new Shims everywhere and another Week and Hours of Work between you and a rideable Bike.

[Dano]

Don't mess with the Clearances, better set them an the loose Side than too tight.

 

But setting at .102 on the exhaust on 6 of them, that's too tight, right? Not enough clearance if I'm thinking right. I've got the shim kit so I've got plenty to play with, then just order what I used to replace them. Oh, nothing to do at work, so I'm settin here on the 'puter. Might take off after lunch to work on the bike.

 

Dan

[Squeeze]

Don't mess with the Clearances, better set them an the loose Side than too tight.

 

But setting at .102 on the exhaust on 6 of them, that's too tight, right? Not enough clearance if I'm thinking right. ...

 

Dan

 

 

Yes, you're right. It's better to have 0.21 than 0.16 after the Adjustment.

[Dano]

Thanks, Squeeze, bored of sitting around here. Can't get anything done.... Gonna leave here soon and go home. I'm on salary, so I'm not gonna lose any money.........

 

Dan

[Neil86]

When you say the valve was not sticking up.....how far was it down...the full height of the cam lobe lift? In other words, the lobe opened the valve and the valve stayed there...or closed most the way? If you rotated engine with it stuck down, piston to valve contact can happen.

[Dano]

When you say the valve was not sticking up.....how far was it down...the full height of the cam lobe lift? In other words, the lobe opened the valve and the valve stayed there...or closed most the way? If you rotated engine with it stuck down, piston to valve contact can happen.

 

Nope, the bucket was sitting flush with the top of the molding in the head,,,,, lobe was still able to push it down some. Like I say, valve shaft must have temporarily just stuck in the guide, seems to be ok now.. BTW, left work(?) and am home now to finish this part up. Gonna take my forks into a local shop and let them rebuild- 82 bucks apiece plus parts--- my time more valuable than that. Plus the distinct possibility of me screwing it up......................:rotf:

 

Dan

[Dano]

Done with the measurements--- got BuddyRich's kit,,,,,, seems like everybody needed 265,270 and 275 shims. Got everything around it, WHOLE bunch of 280's (seems to be common from factory). However, gonna have to order a couple 265's and about 4- 270's to get my tolerances correct. Other shims available in the kit put it too tite or too loose (sound like a Nascar driver!!). If nobody's got any, I'm gonna order them when I get back from Baseball game.

 

Dan

[GigaWhiskey]

Now if we can get this all documented, stepped out and LOTS of pictures, we can get it in Tech forum???

 

That would be kewl!

[Dano]

Now if we can get this all documented, stepped out and LOTS of pictures, we can get it in Tech forum???

 

That would be kewl!

 

Sure thing GW, I'll take pics tonite, now that I understand it, it's easy.

[GigaWhiskey]

Thank you!

[MiCarl]

Do the Ventures use 29mm shims like the XJs? If so, this is the cheapest place I have found to purchase. $4.95 is about half of what other places charge. Shipping is reasonable too.

 

http://www.dual-star.com/index2/Brand/Kawasaki/klr%20650%20valve%20shims.htm