Dealer refusing to pay off loan on trade in

[Flyinfool]

It looks like it all comes down to local laws, From what has been posted it looks like Canada does things different that the USA. And in the USA each state has there own way of doing things. In Wisconsin you can not even get a copy of your title until the loan is paid off. The bank holds the physical title in their vault. If you try to contact the state for a duplicate title the state will tell you to contact the bank.

 

Since they will no longer talk to you, it is time to open up on them. Get everyone involved, HDFS, state Attorney General, local Media, State DMV, Yamaha corporate, Yamaha credit (or whomever has the new loan) Post office, FBI, and any other local legal sources that you may have by you. If they start getting a LOT of unwanted attention they may bend over backwards to fix this. You already tried to be nice.

Point out the links of the dealer scam to the local media and tell them you are a victim, that is newsworthy if you catch them on a slow news day.

 

You played the attorney card pretty early in the game and they are calling your bluff, now you have to decide if you were bluffing or not.

[SilvrT]

@American ... well I beg to disagree simply because I have done, in the past, many deals where a trade was involved that had an existing loan. Further, I have also worked in the vehicle sales and leasing biz and that is how things are/were done. My last one was in 2013 when I traded my Gold Wing in on my 2013 Victory. TD Finance bought the contract and paid off my existing loan on the Wing. The dealer got his money for the difference, got the wing free and clear, and my existing loan at Royal Bank was paid out by TD Finance.

 

This is how it's always been done in any similar dealings I've had.

 

What goes on in your neck of the woods is obviously not the same.

 

In any event, so sorry you got caught up in this B/S and hoping it all works out for the good for you.

[SilvrT]

You played the attorney card pretty early in the game and they are calling your bluff, now you have to decide if you were bluffing or not.

 

Yup, don't say things like that without following through! Better yet, and as was previously mentioned, don't say it at all, don't make threats or ultimatums ... just go and DO IT!

 

Feel free to ask me how I know 'dis.

[BlueSky]

Those used car lots that will sell your car for you have also stiffed a lot of people because you have to sign a power of attorney to them so they can sell your vehicle. I've read where cars were sold and the business went bankrupt and the owner got stiffed.

[SilvrT]

the dealer still has to pay for the cost of the new vehicle.

 

If it was done the way you are thinking then the $12,000 dollars would have been added on top of the new loan. It gets complicated trying to explain it. In the end the dealer has to sell the trade in to get the rest of the money back for the new car they sold you.

 

I get what you are saying; however, the dealer is simply buying inventory with the trade and all the dealer really has to pay, out of pocket so to speak, is the interest on the inventory. His financial backers carry the money, not the dealer. In the case of yours, I'd guess his credit limit has been reached and therefore he has to do these "shady" dealings.

[SilvrT]

Those used car lots that will sell your car for you have also stiffed a lot of people because you have to sign a power of attorney to them so they can sell your vehicle. I've read where cars were sold and the business went bankrupt and the owner got stiffed.

 

That is known as Consignment. There are consumer protection laws here that make it very difficult for a car lot or dealer to be involved in vehicle consignment. I just called a few dealers locally as well as a used vehicle dealer and they all said much the same thing. Basically it's not worth their while to do it.

Edited May 22, 2018 by SilvrT

[American]

It looks like it all comes down to local laws, From what has been posted it looks like Canada does things different that the USA. And in the USA each state has there own way of doing things. In Wisconsin you can not even get a copy of your title until the loan is paid off. The bank holds the physical title in their vault. If you try to contact the state for a duplicate title the state will tell you to contact the bank.

 

Since they will no longer talk to you, it is time to open up on them. Get everyone involved, HDFS, state Attorney General, local Media, State DMV, Yamaha corporate, Yamaha credit (or whomever has the new loan) Post office, FBI, and any other local legal sources that you may have by you. If they start getting a LOT of unwanted attention they may bend over backwards to fix this. You already tried to be nice.

Point out the links of the dealer scam to the local media and tell them you are a victim, that is newsworthy if you catch them on a slow news day.

 

You played the attorney card pretty early in the game and they are calling your bluff, now you have to decide if you were bluffing or not.

 

Its not a bluff, I am not going to play their game, I already put in a complaint with the BBB as toothless as they are people do check them for complaints, Harley Davidson Financial Services has already been contacted and they have flagged the account but that does not release me from being responsible for paying back the loan if the dealer does not uphold their end of the sales contract, if I don't make the monthly payment they can and will report late payments to the credit reporting agencies so if any payment goes over 30 days, then 60 days, then 90 days those are all black marks on your credit report. I pay the payment just like always have on time, I am not letting the loan fall into default as the only one who will get harmed is me if I do that.

 

I will be ramping up different means of putting pressure on Destination Powersports, one of which is forums like this one to get the word out that if you do business with them this is how they treated me so buyer beware.

 

Once the second payment is sent at the end of this month with is just a few days away, I will see about getting one of the local stations involved if they run one of those trouble shooting segments where they go to businesses and ask them why they are not upholding their end of the contract.

 

Being retired I have lots of time to seek out ways to get people looking at them to find out why they are not honoring the sales contract. Some of this stuff will take time to get the ball rolling but eventually they are either going to get tired of dealing with this or they are just going to say they don't care and let the bad publicity roll.

 

The problem is each time I tried to talk to them they refuse to talk and just give you some lip service BSing you and think they have taken care of you for a few days, it becomes one of those wash, rinse and repeat deals. No one will give you a name so you can't document who it is you talk to. It has already been 27 days so in 3 days it will be 30 days, from what I have researched it is inexcusable for a dealer not to take care of a payoff on a trade within 20 days. Once it goes beyond twenty days that become unacceptable and that is where they say the dealer is running the not paying off the trade in scam and yes they call it a dealer scam.

[SilvrT]

In support of our member @American , maybe we all should send a note to that dealer expressing our concerns over what is going on and requesting their immediate action on this matter ..... OR ELSE!

[American]

Here is a good link for when a dealer fails to payoff a trade in loan.

 

https://www.consumerlawgroup.com/blog/2014/06/games-dealers-play-not-paying-off-the-trade-in.shtml

 

SilverT I am not asking the forum to get involved but I do not want a fellow forum member to get taken advantage of so that is why I have posted what is going on, I have been holding back on saying anything hoping the dealer would do the right thing but today they drew their line in the sand so now I will use some of my free retirement time to start protecting my interests.

 

It appears Canada has different laws in how these things are treated but this link pretty well explains how it works here in the states for the most part.

[YamahaParExcellence]

Its not a bluff, I am not going to play their game, I already put in a complaint with the BBB as toothless as they are people do check them for complaints, Harley Davidson Financial Services has already been contacted and they have flagged the account but that does not release me from being responsible for paying back the loan if the dealer does not uphold their end of the sales contract, if I don't make the monthly payment they can and will report late payments to the credit reporting agencies so if any payment goes over 30 days, then 60 days, then 90 days those are all black marks on your credit report. I pay the payment just like always have on time, I am not letting the loan fall into default as the only one who will get harmed is me if I do that.

 

I will be ramping up different means of putting pressure on Destination Powersports, one of which is forums like this one to get the word out that if you do business with them this is how they treated me so buyer beware.

 

Once the second payment is sent at the end of this month with is just a few days away, I will see about getting one of the local stations involved if they run one of those trouble shooting segments where they go to businesses and ask them why they are not upholding their end of the contract.

 

Being retired I have lots of time to seek out ways to get people looking at them to find out why they are not honoring the sales contract. Some of this stuff will take time to get the ball rolling but eventually they are either going to get tired of dealing with this or they are just going to say they don't care and let the bad publicity roll.

 

The problem is each time I tried to talk to them they refuse to talk and just give you some lip service BSing you and think they have taken care of you for a few days, it becomes one of those wash, rinse and repeat deals. No one will give you a name so you can't document who it is you talk to. It has already been 27 days so in 3 days it will be 30 days, from what I have researched it is inexcusable for a dealer not to take care of a payoff on a trade within 20 days. Once it goes beyond twenty days that become unacceptable and that is where they say the dealer is running the not paying off the trade in scam and yes they call it a dealer scam.

 

OK, there's one thing I don't get in all this, American...and that is...if you used the value, and the agreed upon value as part payment for the SVTC, and then the dealer does NOT pay off the loan...then (am I wrong?!?) technically, YOU still own , or are responsible for that bike...and the dealer in essence did NOT 'accept' the bike as part payment. Would you not be able right now, to demand that bike back...pay out the difference as cash, or another line of credit on your SVTC...and then when you have the HD back in your control...sell it...for whatever you can get...and then pay back the 'bridge' loan whatever you glean? At least you have a chance to recover some money from the lien bike. If they go under...that bike is now part of the Bankruptcy...and its value will go out to secured investors...you need to get that bike out of that dealership, by hook or crook!

[SilvrT]

SilverT I am not asking the forum to get involved

 

Of course you're not .... but I just did. This kind of sh$t should not be happening. There's power in numbers! We all seem to give support to those in need ... here's a guy in need ... show some support!

[XV1100SE]

OK, there's one thing I don't get in all this, American...and that is...if you used the value, and the agreed upon value as part payment for the SVTC, and then the dealer does NOT pay off the loan...then (am I wrong?!?) technically, YOU still own , or are responsible for that bike...and the dealer in essence did NOT 'accept' the bike as part payment. Would you not be able right now, to demand that bike back...pay out the difference as cash, or another line of credit on your SVTC...and then when you have the HD back in your control...sell it...for whatever you can get...and then pay back the 'bridge' loan whatever you glean? At least you have a chance to recover some money from the lien bike. If they go under...that bike is now part of the Bankruptcy...and its value will go out to secured investors...you need to get that bike out of that dealership, by hook or crook!

 

I was thinking the same thing.

As for all of us messaging the dealer....it has been done before to show the power of a group. They have a part on their web page for customer reviews?

[XV1100SE]

They have a facebook page. 58 x 5 star, 16 x 1 star

https://www.facebook.com/pg/DestinationPowersports/reviews/

 

Web page says they pay cash for all makes.... https://www.destination-powersports.com/

[American]

You all humble me greatly, being I am retired law enforcement and have spent my career helping others I am used to going alone on things, your reaching out is appreciated.

 

I have done many things for so many people without asking for anything in return over the years that this must be a token of goodwill being guided back my way.

 

All I can say is thank you for the support and it won't be forgotten and will again be paid forward to others in one form or another.

[djh3]

Did not read all the threads. But my take is if your making payments you own it. There fore they have stolen your bike. File a stolen vehicle report and give the fuzz the heads up where to look for it.

By the way do you need a couple half sheets of ply wood to make some signs up to put in your truck and park in front of the dealership?

[djh3]

Would this be your bike? " Dear dealer, I am interested in this bike. Do you have a clear title?" Or maybe " Dear dealer I am interested in XYZ new bike. But I have have been reading some very illegal procedures going on at your dealership. Trades not being payed off on time, previous owners making 2 payments, one on the trade and one on the new bike. What gives?"

[American]

Would this be your bike? " Dear dealer, I am interested in this bike. Do you have a clear title?" Or maybe " Dear dealer I am interested in XYZ new bike. But I have have been reading some very illegal procedures going on at your dealership. Trades not being payed off on time, previous owners making 2 payments, one on the trade and one on the new bike. What gives?"

 

No that is not the bike I traded in.

 

This is the Harley Davidson I traded in:

 

https://www.destination-powersports.com/default.asp?page=xInventoryDetail&id=5363151&p=1&s=Year&d=D&vt=motorcycle%20%2F%20scooter&year=2016&fr=xallinventory

[cowpuc]

No that is not the bike I traded in.

 

This is the Harley Davidson I traded in:

 

https://www.destination-powersports.com/default.asp?page=xInventoryDetail&id=5363151&p=1&s=Year&d=D&vt=motorcycle%20%2F%20scooter&year=2016&fr=xallinventory

 

WOWZY WOW WOW WOW American ,,, you certainly went from a drop dead gorgeous to a drop dead gorgeous scoot there brother!!!!!!

 

Soooooooooo sorry to read about all this nonsense,,, hope you get it all ironed out my friend!!!

[American]

WOWZY WOW WOW WOW American ,,, you certainly went from a drop dead gorgeous to a drop dead gorgeous scoot there brother!!!!!!

 

Soooooooooo sorry to read about all this nonsense,,, hope you get it all ironed out my friend!!!

 

Thanks,

 

It will get worked out one way or another, even if Destination Powersports goes out of business whom ever ends up with the Harley will have to deal with the loan on it as it can't be titled to a new owner until it is paid off. There are 27 months left to go on the loan so I doubt any one who ends up with the bike will want to wait it out that long, they would settle up on the loan to remove the lean so they could title and register the bike.

[cowpuc]

Thanks,

 

It will get worked out one way or another, even if Destination Powersports goes out of business whom ever ends up with the Harley will have to deal with the loan on it as it can't be titled to a new owner until it is paid off. There are 27 months left to go on the loan so I doubt any one who ends up with the bike will want to wait it out that long, they would settle up on the loan to remove the lean so they could title and register the bike.

 

Flippin scammers,,, cant stand em in any form or fashion..... Shame on you Destination PS,, this is discusting IMHO.

Thanks for having our backs and being willing to share this story with us brother.. THAT is greatly appreciated!!

[RDawson]

Hate to see this happening. If I made two payments I'd definitely be beating down their door to get the bike back. If you're paying for it take it. Glad it's not a huge financial impact, it could be huge to some. Good luck.

[American]

Hate to see this happening. If I made two payments I'd definitely be beating down their door to get the bike back. If you're paying for it take it. Glad it's not a huge financial impact, it could be huge to some. Good luck.

 

That is where we get into sticky legal issues, we have a signed sales contract they get the Harley and I get the Yamaha, it is an interesting legal argument to get the Harley back, but I think it is going to take a little longer to establish their full intent if they choose to not pay off the Harley.

 

It is something that I will look into.

[Freebird]

If you are making payments, then when they finally do pay it off, the payoff should be less. In at least two or three instances over the past few years, when I traded in a vehicle when there was still a lien, we called from the dealership and got the pay-off. Maybe because my last payment had not posted or for some other reason, when the dealer paid it off, the payoff was less than expected. In each case, I was pleasantly surprised a few weeks later to get a check in the mail from the dealer with the notation, "refund from payoff". Never asked for it but apparently the payoff amount was figured into the deal and when it turned out to be less, they were obligated to send me the difference. That is here in Ohio, don't know how it works where you are. If it is the same, then you should get a check from the dealer for the amount of any payments you make that reduce the payoff.

[American]

If you are making payments, then when they finally do pay it off, the payoff should be less. In at least two or three instances over the past few years, when I traded in a vehicle when there was still a lien, we called from the dealership and got the pay-off. Maybe because my last payment had not posted or for some other reason, when the dealer paid it off, the payoff was less than expected. In each case, I was pleasantly surprised a few weeks later to get a check in the mail from the dealer with the notation, "refund from payoff". Never asked for it but apparently the payoff amount was figured into the deal and when it turned out to be less, they were obligated to send me the difference. That is here in Ohio, don't know how it works where you are. If it is the same, then you should get a check from the dealer for the amount of any payments you make that reduce the payoff.

 

If they payoff the amount listed on the contract then I will get a refund from Harley Davidson Financial Services, I have received over payments back from the banks in the past.

 

This may be a deal where they are using the Yamaha loan money for a free 30 day loan as well, because the bank money if issued in a check is overnighted not sent regular mail because of the amount involved, if it is done electronically then they again would have the money the next day it was approved.

 

I am hoping that they payoff the loan on the Harley on the 25th as that would be their 30 day free loan, it is another documented tactic dealers pull on the customer using the customers money.

 

As it stands right now if the loan was paid today I would get a just over $400 dollars refund from Harley Davidson Financial services if Destination Powersports fails to payoff the loan then the second payment will take effect on June 1, 2018 and the over payment will jump up to over $800 dollars to be refunded but that is assuming they pay off the correct amount on the contract of $11,814.20, if they try to pull a fast one and call Harley Davidson Financial Services for a new payoff amount they will be given the current payoff which would be lower in which case Destination Powersports will be committing financial theft against me. That is a crime.

 

If I get back my over payments I am pledging to contribute 20% of the overpayment to the form via the contribution button above. I will keep the forum posted on what happens.

[RDawson]

That is where we get into sticky legal issues, we have a signed sales contract they get the Harley and I get the Yamaha, it is an interesting legal argument to get the Harley back, but I think it is going to take a little longer to establish their full intent if they choose to not pay off the Harley.

 

It is something that I will look into.

You also have a signed contract that they pay the note. Seems to me they have breached the contract. I'd still demand money or bike, you're paying for it after all.

Again good luck,

enjoy the Yamaha.