2018 Yamaha Star Venture - Mike's Personal Review

[Du-Rron]

I like the taste of Rotella T6. Fruity and dry and leaves no heavy after-taste.

[ChiefGunner]

  Du-Rron said:

I like the taste of Rotella T6. Fruity and dry and leaves no heavy after-taste.

 

ROFLMBO! You’re a HOOT Du-Rron!!

[ChiefGunner]

  XV1100SE said:

Actually a lot of us with 2nd Gens use Rotella T6. Wet clutch and it works nicely, is less expensive than some of the other oils.

Not a plug for Rotella....just saying. Possible for the SVCT ?

 

Not familiar with it. Is it also a full synthetic?

[ChiefGunner]

  XV1100SE said:

https://www.shell.ca/fr_ca/business-customers/lubrifiants-pour-les-entreprises/gamme-de-lubrifiants/shell-rotella-t/_jcr_content/par/tabbedcontent_1f41/tab_6d25/textimage_207d.stream/1423055009539/498bee4e195fd4011e1dc6cf1d17c521213b4d1d9417cf8bf993078d880f0e8b/rotella-t6.pdf

 

It also has JASO MA-2 Certification

 

I appreciate that. Stats look impressive. What about the “esthers”(sp?) that people were talking about?

[American]

  ChiefGunner said:

I appreciate that. Stats look impressive. What about the “esthers”(sp?) that people were talking about?

 

The thing to remember about ester is that ester is a group V synthetic, ester has a positive charge which means it will cling to metal parts. Group IV synthetics are PAO and do not have that positive charge so they can and do drain off of metal parts.

 

That is why many group IV PAO synthetics will add some group V ester synthetic to them, the ester will cling to the metal parts. PAO synthetic are also very good synthetic oils.

[American]

The thing to remember is that our transmissions/primary's are gear driven and the Yamaha design of this engine lubricates the engine, primary and transmission, being this is a shared sump type system that is all gear driven it is harder on the oil.

 

Group II oils have viscosity modifiers added to them and group II oils are conventional oils so the oils molecules are all different sizes with the smaller molecules getting used up quickest due to the gear style system shearing them. That is why group II oils require viscosity modifiers to assist them with durability.

 

Group III oils are just higher refined conventional oils that remove more of the impurities from the oil but it still has different size molecules and requires viscosity modifiers like its group II brother. Mobil filed a complaint against Castrol oil with an advertising board (NAD) saying that group III oils are not synthetic oils as Castrol oil had started labeling their group III oils as full synthetic. The advertising board sided with Castrol oil allowing them to label their group III oils as full synthetic oils. The same group III oil labeled as full synthetic in America can not be labeled as synthetic in Germany/Europe as they do not allow group III refined oils to be labeled full synthetic. The extra refining of a group III oil is also called hydro cracked which is just another term for the higher refinement.

 

Group III+ is a newer class of conventional oil that is PROCESSES FOR CONVERTING NATURAL GAS INTO LIQUIDS.

It is also called GTL for gas to liquid, these oils are made by Shell who holds the patents on this process and is closer to a group IV synthetic. There is not a lot of information on group III+.

 

Group IV oils are true synthetic meaning every molecule is the same as all the others, that is why group IV oils do not require viscosity modifiers, group IV oils are PAO made from polyalphaolefins.

 

Group V oils are all other synthetics not in group IV category like esters. In group V oils every molecule is the same as all the others. Ester does have one advantage with that being ester is a positive charge so it clings to metal parts aiding in cold starts. That is why you will find group V ester added to a lot of group IV, III and even semi-synthetic oils.

 

My preference is to run a full group V ester based oil.

 

It should be noted that the only oils certified for use in turbine engines are group V ester based oils, no group I, II, III, III+ or IV oil can withstand the high temp environment of a turbine engine.

 

Being we are running an air/oil cooled designed engine I like knowing that I will never have to worry about my group V oil breaking down due to heat if I get stuck in some traffic.

 

Here is a rough example of what I am talking about when I refer to the size of molecules in the oil make up.

 

The two straight lines represent bearing surface or gear surface and the upper case, lower case "o" and number zero will represent the molecules.

 

 

_____________________________________________

OO0oo00OOoooO0OOo0O00OO0o000ooOOOO0o0oO

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Assume the bottom line is touching the molecules.

 

Notice the different shapes of the molecules with the larger ones touching the bearing surfaces and smaller ones not touching all of the bearing surface. Also the smaller molecules will be sheared quicker braking down the oil viscosity and that is why viscosity enhancers have to be added.

 

 

Now here is a group IV or V true synthetic oil.

 

____________________________________________

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Assume the bottom line is touching the molecules.

 

See how every molecule is touching the bearing or gear surface? that means more protection, plus there is no need to add viscosity enhancers.

 

This is just a basic explanation of the groups of oils and the difference between a true synthetic oil and group II, III, III+ oils. Group I oils are very lightly refined and not used in engines outside of antique engines and will be a non detergent oil so group I oils are not used in todays engines at all.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by American

[ChiefGunner]

  American said:

The thing to remember is that our transmissions/primary's are gear driven and the Yamaha design of this engine lubricates the engine, primary and transmission, being this is a shared sump type system that is all gear driven it is harder on the oil.

 

Group II oils have viscosity modifiers added to them and group II oils are conventional oils so the oils molecules are all different sizes with the smaller molecules getting used up quickest due to the gear style system shearing them. That is why group II oils require viscosity modifiers to assist them with durability.

 

Group III oils are just higher refined conventional oils that remove more of the impurities from the oil but it still has different size molecules and requires viscosity modifiers like its group II brother. Mobil filed a complaint against Castrol oil with an advertising board (NAD) saying that group III oils are not synthetic oils as Castrol oil had started labeling their group III oils as full synthetic. The advertising board sided with Castrol oil allowing them to label their group III oils as full synthetic oils. The same group III oil labeled as full synthetic in America can not be labeled as synthetic in Germany/Europe as they do not allow group III refined oils to be labeled full synthetic. The extra refining of a group III oil is also called hydro cracked which is just another term for the higher refinement.

 

Group III+ is a newer class of conventional oil that is PROCESSES FOR CONVERTING NATURAL GAS INTO LIQUIDS.

It is also called GTL for gas to liquid, these oils are made by Shell who holds the patents on this process and is closer to a group iV synthetic. There is not a lot of information on group III+.

 

Group IV oils are true synthetic meaning every molecule is the same as all the others, that is why group IV oils do not require viscosity modifiers, group IV oils are PAO made from polyalphaolefins.

 

Group V oils are all other synthetics not in group IV category like esters. In group V oils every molecule is the same as all the others. Ester does have one advantage with that being ester is a positive charge so it clings to metal parts aiding is cold starts. That is why you will find group V ester added to a lot of group IV, III and even semi-synthetic oils.

 

My preference is to run a full group V ester based oil.

 

It should be noted that the only oils certified for use in turbine engines are group V ester based oils, no group I, II, III, III+ or IV oil can withstand the high temp environment of a turbine engine.

 

Being we are running an air/oil cooled designed engine I like knowing that I will never have to worry about my group V oil breaking down due to heat if I get stuck in some traffic.

 

Here is a rough example of what I am talking about when I refer to the size of molecules in the oil make up.

 

The two straight lines represent bearing surface or gear surface and the upper case, lower case "o" and number zero will represent the molecules.

 

 

_____________________________________________

OO0oo00OOoooO0OOo0O00OO0o000ooOOOO0o0oO

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Assume the bottom line is touching the molecules.

 

Notice the different shapes of the molecules with the larger ones touching the bearing surfaces and smaller ones not touching all of the bearing surface. Also the smaller molecules will be sheared quicker braking down the oil viscosity and that is why viscosity enhancers have to be added.

 

 

Now here is a group IV or V true synthetic oil.

 

____________________________________________

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Assume the bottom line is touching the molecules.

 

See how every molecule is touching the bearing or gear surface? that means more protection, plus there is no need to add viscosity enhancers.

 

This is just a basic explanation of the groups of oils and the difference between a true synthetic oil and group II, III, III+ oils. Group I oils are very lightly refined and not used in engines outside of antique engines and will be a non detergent oil so group I oils are not used in todays engines at all.

 

 

 

WOW American, you know your lubes! Thanks for the education. Now I know not just WHAT I want to run in my SVTC but WHY.