Difficulty finding neutral

[jsb777]

Good afternoon Venture owners!

 

My 2005 Midnight Venture w/67,572 miles is exhibiting an annoying habit of not wanting to go into neutral easily.

 

Clutch fluid was changed at Maintenance Day in 2016 w/59,248 miles, then again in Sept. of 2017 w/66,815 miles.

Prior to MD in 2016 I had NEVER changed the clutch fluid and it was like used motor oil.

I did find a previous dealer receipt at 36,560 miles where they recorded they "adjusted clutch" whatever that means.

 

When I changed it last Sept. (2017) it was slightly colored, but not dark...nothing like MD change.

Today, it looked nearly brand new before draining and replacing. The fluid coming from the bleeder valve was very clear and no air bubbles.

 

Before draining (by syringe) the fluid in the reservoir, I noticed 3-4 dark "spots" in the bottom toward the left side of the reservoir.

Any debris would naturally go here due to the lean of the reservoir and the bike on its side stand.

When I disturbed the dark debris with a screw driver, it was suspended in the clean brake fluid, similar to the way food coloring would react when

being mixed into water. I sucked it out with the syringe then slowly deposited it on a clean white rag looking for anything solid.

The dark color was not anything solid in nature.

 

1) I've tried to do my own research here, and haven't found anything on the contaminate, but did find Condor's previous reply to someone cautioning

against OVER filling the reservoir. My regular parking spot does not reveal any leaks, and the fluid level was not low.

Too much fluid could be one issue I have had.

 

Related to that, do I check the site glass siting on the bike with the handlebars in the straight forward position?

Leaning to the right with full right turn in play in an attempt to get the top of the reservoir parallel to the ground?

In what position should the bike be when checking the site glass for half full?

 

2) With 67,500+ miles should I be considering clutch replacement and upgrades, though I'm not having any other issues?

Do the internal components of the clutch (friction surfaces, etc) degrade and breakdown?

I have read some of the posts about weak springs, etc.

Should I be watching/listening/feeling for tell tale signs of some catastrophic clutch failure with this mileage?

I'm already planning on front springs (Progressive I suppose) and rear shock replacements this year, as the Venture has finally lost its smooth feeling ride.

 

I am VERY disappointed that I can't make MD this year. It was a BLAST in 2016 and I learned SO MUCH!

As usual, your expert advice is always sincerely and greatly appreciated!!

 

Respectfully,

John in Oregon

[RDawson]

Is oil change overdue? Correct oil? Those will also make gear change difficult.

[Du-Rron]

Good afternoon Venture owners!

 

My 2005 Midnight Venture w/67,572 miles is exhibiting an annoying habit of not wanting to go into neutral easily.

 

Hydraulic line replacement as per manual. Master rebuild and slave rebuilt/replacement.

[Yammer Dan]

Being due for a oil change is one answer for this. Some more than others. I'm not sure what mileage they wear out at. Different with different styles of riding. Check your mileage on oil change first. If that don't do it we will figure out something else you can spend money on!!

[KAWoodworth]

I change my fluids regularly and after riding my bike for a while and it warms up I can hardy ever get it to go back into neutral. My bike has done this ever since I have owned it. Bought my 2007 RSV in 2008. I just chalk it up to one of the quirks about the bike, like the gear whine. The only time it really bothers me is if I have to stop for a tool booth and pay. I have to end up turning the bike off at the booth.

[Marcarl]

All it takes for this to happen, is to have a wee tiny little air bubble at the head of your master cylinder. It all makes sense the way you describe it. So to fix that?

Bike on center stand if you can do that, handle bars all the way to the right so that the master cylinder reservoir is above the head or attached brake line. Put a large rag under the handle bar area, a large thick rag, take off the reservoir cover and check the fluid level to be no more than 1\2. Now with the handle of a screwdriver tap the head of the master cylinder and the connector to the brake line as you slightly, slightly now!, move the handle in and out. Keep an eye on the fluid and you should see an air bubble come up. If not, wiggle the handle a little more deeply. If you are too aggressive with the handle movement you run the risk of breaking up the air bubble and it will stay where it is.

[KenM]

On my 1999 RSV, 45k, when cold it goes from 1st to neutral with a solid click. After it's hot, I need only "touch" the foot shifter and it pops into neutral from 1st gear, sometimes even with a "touch" goes into 2nd. With "practice" I've learned how to get it in neutral relatively reliably.

[jsb777]

Thanks for the prompt and helpful replies.

 

I'm going to change the overdue oil/filter then take the test ride.

I’m also going to change to a calendar basis for changes rather than a mileage basis,

unless I start traveling again.

 

I changed oil/filter 5 times in 2016 (due to mileage) and 0 times in 2017.

I rode very little last year.

 

Again, thanks for the good suggestions!

 

John

[baylensman]

+ one on the oil change. Its how I can tell I'm due to over due. especially coming our of neutral at stop signs, if the tans seems to jump right into second gear with minimal pressure its time!

[CATPower]

While driving slow 1st gear pump the clutch lever to see if that helps going into N. If the pumping helps change clutch fluid and retry.

[Mike G in SC]

My 2006 RSTD got a problem finding neutral after about 30K miles, but clutch was otherwise okay.

When I came to a stop, I would try to get neutral but, up and down it would slip past,, dang,,,, dang,,,, dang. like that. I'd see the green light flash by.

It would only go in when I shut the engine off. So I normally just kept the clutch in unless the traffic light was real long, then would kill it.

 

When folks started talking about the Barret pressure plate about 2008, I decided to do it, more for performance than thinking I had an issue.

Replaced the plate and also the disks.

Well dang (once), first time I looked for neutral,,,,, there it was. From then on out,,, still good over 100K miles.

 

Just my experience on finding loosing and finding neutral.

 

Mike G in SC

[cecdoo]

Thanks for the prompt and helpful replies.

 

I'm going to change the overdue oil/filter then take the test ride.

I’m also going to change to a calendar basis for changes rather than a mileage basis,

unless I start traveling again.

 

I changed oil/filter 5 times in 2016 (due to mileage) and 0 times in 2017.

I rode very little last year.

 

Again, thanks for the good suggestions!

 

John

I rode very little last year.

 

Yeah I know John, I saved a seat for ya last year at Maint Day and ya never showed up?? We missed ya. Hope all is well and you are doin fine.

 

Craig

[jsb777]

Fellow Venture owners,

 

Changed oil and filter last night after getting home.

Rode to work early this AM; crisp 40 degrees, sun just beginning to peek over the eastern hills.

Shifting was smooth as...a Venture with fresh oil!!

All is good again and the missing neutral has been found!

 

Thanks for all the great suggestions!

 

Craig, I will never forget my time at MD in 2016!

I had some surgery in Jan of 2017, then went back to work in April.

I took 2 day trips that year, and rode to work a dozen times.

I’m riding more this year, but don’t have any trips planned...at the moment.

Hope all is well with you. Give my best to all those at Maintennance Day this year!

 

John

[bongobobny]

Yet another vote for an oil change!!

 

As far as the clutch goes, put the bike in 1st gear and rev it up a lot. Does the bike want to try to creep forward?? If NOT, then your clutch is fine!!!

[7 lakes]

That dark stuff in the fluid is powdered rubber, the rubber internals are active wear parts. Its built into the rubber compounds and is symbiotic with how they continue to seal effectively as they age and wear, like the trade-off between a tire being stickier or lasting longer. That residue, your description of the fluid and your mileage tell me that its past time to service the clutch internals. Figuratively, if they were tires, you're rolling down the road on bald tires which although are still holding air and rolling, have nothing in reserve and are looking for the right (wrong) time to let you down.

 

It be time for hydraulic kits.

 

Tim

Edited May 6, 2018 by 7 lakes
Spelling curection

[jsb777]

Tim,

Thanks for that explanation! I can grasp the comparison to a bald tire still holding air!

 

Specifically what are the “internals” you mention?

I have no understanding of what’s behind that cover plate of the clutch!

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

John

[videoarizona]

If I may take a stab at it.

 

The "internals" I think he means the master/slave cylinder O rings/gaskets that do wear. These are the parts that attempt to compress the fluid pushing the clutch in/out. Remember, the hand operated hydraulic clutch pushes rods that do the work on the other (right) side of the motor. So all the wear is going to be on the left side...at least as far as clutch fluid is concerned. Now the coloration of the fluid comes mostly from heat and air/moisture. As the fluid cycles through the master/lines and slave, it passes through the slave and gets repeatedly heated. And even though it's a closed system, it does manage to get moisture in the fluid. Heat, wear particles and moisture all contribute to contaminating the fluid, causing hard shifting and not finding neutral.

 

The other culprit in hard shifting and neutral issues is the motor oil. Once it's old the trannie doesn't like to shift well any more. Seems ridiculous, but everytime I've changed oil, my trannie feels like new again. I can only contribute that to the sheer forces in the gears is breaking down the additives in the oil causing wear and hard shifting.

 

So instead of calendar or mileage to change motor oil and clutch/brake fluids, I simply go by performance. When I start to have brake issues I 1st look at the fluid. Same with clutch, same with motor oil. And that should happen at least once a year unless you put gazillion miles on each year! The only exception are the brake/clutch lines. They should be replaced every 2 to 3 years. The rubber does get old and they swell...so you end up losing clutch action since part of the pressure is going to pushing the lines out...swelling them.

 

I just changed both the clutch and front brake fluids this past Fall. Did it again today....because the shifting was getting hard and the front brakes just didn't "feel" right.

Much better.

 

As far as where to put the bars to change the fluids? I turn them until the master cylinder is as level as it can be. Just makes life easier on you...

 

Just thinking outside the box again....