A honest question...wondering about the Harley Davidson Co's standing into the future

[YamahaParExcellence]

This was on MSN today.

Randy

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/topstocks/harley-hints-at-sharper-turnaround-plan-to-spur-bike-demand/ar-AAwhhMs?ocid=spartandhp

 

This might seem predatory to type...but, if you are looking to pick one up from a dealer...this kind of news...makes them (HD dealers) VERY, VERY motivated to have one of their stock, ride out the service bay door....with the cash left behind...er...reasonable cash..lol. Who knows...I'll know better towards the end of May.

 

https://www.baggersmag.com/2018-harley-davidson-road-glide-ultra-first-loo

Edited April 25, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence

[Freebird]

I meant to add one more thing to my post. If I actually WERE in the market for a new bike right now, I would absolutely be taking a very close look at the new Venture. Though I actually liked and got a kick out of the vibration of the Harley at idle, I love the looks of the new Venture and even more importantly, I like the technology that they brought with it. Different ride modes, traction control, reverse, etc. I haven't ridden one and am scared to. I'm afraid I would want one if I actually rode it. Haven't even seen one in person.

 

I still think that the Venture is a great choice for your Plan A. But the Harley is certainly worth consideration for your Plan B. Here is a picture of the 2013 that I had. This was before I added the Vance and Hines large ovals and a few other extras. Of course, the new ones got a re-design a year or two after my '13 model.

 

[Ky. Rider]

Although the number is declining there is still a large number that drinks nothing else but orange " kool aide." HD does know how to market and produce bling. They are good looking bikes.

[djh3]

Well if I was worried about parts availability for "dead" brands I would have bailed last year when Victory announced they were closing up. I did test ride the new Eluder and liked it. If I was to get another bike I really dont know what the heck I would go with. I'm thinking a GW. But the Victory handling wise for me was a vast improvement.

[cimmer]

Well if I was worried about parts availability for "dead" brands I would have bailed last year when Victory announced they were closing up. I did test ride the new Eluder and liked it. If I was to get another bike I really dont know what the heck I would go with. I'm thinking a GW. But the Victory handling wise for me was a vast improvement.

 

Victory did state they would be supply parts for the next 10 years when they made the announcement of stopping production. So I dont see that being an issue for at least that long.

Rick F.

[YamahaParExcellence]

I meant to add one more thing to my post. If I actually WERE in the market for a new bike right now, I would absolutely be taking a very close look at the new Venture. Though I actually liked and got a kick out of the vibration of the Harley at idle, I love the looks of the new Venture and even more importantly, I like the technology that they brought with it. Different ride modes, traction control, reverse, etc. I haven't ridden one and am scared to. I'm afraid I would want one if I actually rode it. Haven't even seen one in person.

 

I still think that the Venture is a great choice for your Plan A. But the Harley is certainly worth consideration for your Plan B. Here is a picture of the 2013 that I had. This was before I added the Vance and Hines large ovals and a few other extras. Of course, the new ones got a re-design a year or two after my '13 model.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112331

 

Wow, that's was a great looking bike, Freebird!

 

So, here it is for myself;

 

Plan A-----> My long promised 2018 Yamaha Star Venture Trans Continental.

 

or...

 

Plan B-----> A 2018 Harley Davidson Road Glide Ultra in either the new total custom Blue...or the Twisted Cherry Two Tone, Red. C.B. as an add-on. Nothing much else, I would need after that.

 

Thanks everyone, for your contributions. Reading another's take always empowers 'your' take. Cheers!

 

Joe

Edited April 25, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence

[YamahaParExcellence]

Although the number is declining there is still a large number that drinks nothing else but orange " kool aide." HD does know how to market and produce bling. They are good looking bikes.

 

I think they are too, especially that 2018 Road Glide Ultra that Freebird put me onto. I am certainly no HD hater! LOL.

 

I will laugh at all get-out, if after all these years, Fate has me riding out of a Harley Davidson dealership...and not the Yamaha one, we visited last October. Now...THAT would be a twist on Fate, and---->funny! No mater, Boise, Idaho slated for either of these puppies! That, and Kool and the Gang's, CELEBRATION' C'mon! outta the speakers....

 

Joe

[YamahaParExcellence]

Well if I was worried about parts availability for "dead" brands I would have bailed last year when Victory announced they were closing up. I did test ride the new Eluder and liked it. If I was to get another bike I really dont know what the heck I would go with. I'm thinking a GW. But the Victory handling wise for me was a vast improvement.

 

I can tell you with absolute riding/ownership authority, that if you picked up a new 2017 Nav/Premium Sound...you'd be thrilled with it, if that is the direction you want to go. It will give you a chance to run over 300,000...yes...no typo 300,000 miles BMF. The only thing though, (unless this is not important to you), is that you would be getting 10 year old, and tired tech in the infotainment system. The mechanics of the bike itself...and the storage capacity of the 2017 and down...will take you for a two week, to a one month sojourn with ease. After 5 of them, my wife let me swap out for something else, but not because the 2008 Gold Wing was a slouch, or was worn out. A great ride, for those wanting one!

 

Joe

[Freebird]

Wow, that's was a great looking bike, Freebird!

 

So, here it is for myself;

 

Plan A-----> My long promised 2018 Yamaha Star Venture Trans Continental.

 

or...

 

Plan B-----> A 2018 Harley Davidson Road Glide Ultra in either the new total custom Blue...or the Twisted Cherry Two Tone, red. C.B. as an add-on. Nothing much else, I would need after that.

 

Thanks everyone, for your contributions. Reading another's take always empowers 'your' take. Cheers!

 

Joe

 

Haven't looked at the new models but the CB was standard on my 2013.

[cowpuc]

While I'm waiting for my SVTC to show up at my dealer...and being that I have had some 'rough edges', in this regard...and being that I always like a Plan 'B'...

...and BEING that I have never had any history or experience with Harley Davidson, in owning one, or in following the tribe...

 

I invite anybody's opinion, of what THEY think about the present state-of-the Union, as regards this company..and IF...for any reason I do not end up getting my SVTC...(for any reason), I am seriously at this stage of events, entertaining that I would indeed look at this brand.

I have always had, a Honda 4 or 6 cylinder Gold Wing (from 1975 onward) for all my Grand Touring life, but now, in my 60's, want something of a change up. I'm bored. I have never owned a large bore V-Twin, and do want to do so now. I want to experience the so-called 'emotional' side of Grand Tour. Every one of my five Gold Wings, were rock-on, rock-steady, rock-reliable, but...just..well...they were mundane. Like getting a hug from your beloved grandmother. What I am trying to say, is that they always got me, or as two up, us...there. But I never felt the rumble of the engine, never had a sound from the pipes that hinted at the massive power of the engine. I wonder if this is even coming across right through my fingertips...I hope so.

 

When I ride my Kawasaki ZR-7S, I FEEL the road, I feel the motor pulses, even though it is a four cylinder engine. It is exciting, (emotional?) GETTING THERE.... I want to feel that connection to my bike, but when touring. That was one of the exciting things I was/am looking forward to in the purchase of the SVTC. Smoothness of a flat six..(but, with some intentional Yamaha engineer'ed ----> not quite) Ride of a Gold Wing, but with just some 'Yamaha' Bad Boy, to go along with it. I want that now as I move into the twilight of my motorcycle years...and feel that I have about 10 good years left, before 'stuff' can happen, on a day-to-day that will point to selling the bike...and moving on to my piano bench.

 

So...in 10,000 words or less...IF, for any reason, any reason that the fates just don't see me getting an SVTC this year....for all the members here, that have owned, still own, want to own...a Harley Davidson Ultra, do you think they are a good bike, with the Milwaukee 8 partial-liquid cooling, in them? Do you think that Harley will ALWAYS be around...or do any of you think that Harley could be in real trouble, as a one-horse venue company...and that their core prior market metrics are literally dying out, retiring from the sport...and that will ultimately cause the Company to financially, be no longer viable.

 

But...the final question...even if that should occur...would you think that there would be plenty of parts out there...or after-market that would allow you to run the bike for at least the next 15 years, without it being parked, because you could not get a part you needed? Honestly, these are questions and considerations that are running through my mind, while I wait out this very long and protracted purchase of the SVTC. Yes..I have been told it is coming. But until I get the call to come down and see them un-crate my bike, it is truly until that time, vapor-bike. I DO KNOW, that I want a V-Twin configuration more than my wife, as per WHAT we end up with. She is OK with whatever I want. She was also OK quite frankly to just keep our 2008 Wing. So bless her...she is letting me play like a kid in the sandbox near to retirement. She's good either way.

 

What do you folks think? Will Harley (as long as motorcycles are legal to own and run...) always be viable, and alive? At least around for the next 15 years? I intend to lurk on a few dediated Harley sites as well, over the next couple of weeks, but wanted first to read about anybody's opinion that care to respond, while NOT on a dedicated Harley website. I don't want totally Lord of the Flies, bias...just those that have, or had, a Harley, but also have no problem owning a metric as well. I think there...you will get a rounded opinion...and not just chest thumping...

 

Thanks, any opinions will be appreciated. I am a Harley Davidson Virgin....

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/03/harley-davidson-tries-to-regain-its-coolness-factor.html

 

 

I really really really love Harley's and always have.. Take that with a grain of salt though cause I have a HUGE flaw in my characater that leaves me helpless to really really really like all bikes ... As shown in the pics (and those are only a few pics from the digital camera age), I have owned numerous Harleys - have rode em hard cross country, built em for HP gains, chopped em for fun and for , hill climbed em and dirt rode em (lots of folks dont know this but in the early days,, before the evil metric Empire took over so we didn't have to spin wrenches as much - HD V-Twins dominated the hills and forest of motorcycle off roading)... Fact is,, IMHO,, if it were not for HD keeping the ancient air cooled, V-Twin push rod motor alive with some AMAZING demographic and marketing understanding thru the years - I think the basic air cooled pushrod big V-Twin design would have died off long ago but,,, it hasn't..

Due mainly to this, I also consider any form of that archiac but iconic design that is non-Harley a clone/wanna be/imposter attempt at sneaking off with part of the market that Harley owns and attempts at sneaking off with a piece of that pie has been going on for many many years now.. Companies like Polaris with their failed Victory models that they stopped production on because they just didnt sell (still to this day - Polaris does not release actual unit sales numbers BUT - Polaris Motorcycle V.P. Menetto did have a slip of the tongue in a press release about their Indian repop that under 125 thousand Victories were sold during the years that Polaris was producing them and this was during the hay days before the economy tanked and at a time when that number represented a quarterly production number just for the HD Sportster!!!) are still chasing that pie and putting millions of dollars into RnD with their Indian remake in trying to get even a taste of the HD pie and now with Yamaha's latest shot at the task (a task that they too have a very solid high rate of failure with - there is a longgg list of Yamaha V-Twins that havent cut it as there are with all metric manufactured clones) - I think it is very clear that even the bike manufacturers of the world clearly believe HD and their pie are here to stay..

Concerning parts availability, as long as there are bike parts being produced in any form for consumer consumption - HD will be there... Not just The Motor Company itself with it HUGE parts supply but also in the aftermarket.

Cost wise in both purchasing the bike new and upkeep - a person would be really smart to do some research and compare.. The days of paying x50 for a clutch cable like we did back in the 60/70's just because it said HD on the package is gone - now if ya want to sticker shock in both parts and bike prices look to Polaris as HD tends to be fairly on par with the metrics. While the new HD's may not have the latest and greatest in European stuff like electric windshields and also seem to rely on people buying into the idea that they are buying a motorcycle so a manual clutch and having to push the bike backwards instead of having a reverse gear may be part of their playbook BUT - HD paint quality is second to none (you wont find to many HD's rusting out along the fender creases in the show rooms like you will on the Polaris's) PLUS - and this is HUGE to many people - HD's accessory line and group outings/company backed outings are always top notch..

Nahhhhh,,, HD isnt going anywhere,, definitely not in the next 20 years IMHO... Personally,, if I were a betting man and gonna bet on who/what was gonna be left standing in the industry in 20/30 years,,,, I think Polaris will cease their Indian repop production and it will go the way of their Victories longgg before HD goes under and I think the new Venture will be another hard selling - low resale value Strat/Roadliner/V-Star/Roadie/VTX/Intruder/Vulcan metric that will find its way into that "heyyyy,, we tried" group.

On the same token though Yamster,,, I am also one who thinks that if/when battery technology catches up with the times and it gets to a point where a person and his wife can jump in their electric car or on their electric motorcycle and drive/ride non-stop for 800 miles at 80 mph with no recharge needed = at that time,, fossil fueled vehicles will all be in deep trouble so take this all in for what its worth..

Concerning what to buy,,, plan A's and B's and all that stuff??? Best advice EVER is to ride em before ya choose one,, all of em that interest you and form your own opinion from what YOU experience - certainly dont base your decision on what others say or have written.. I dont know how closely you followed the new Wing test riding that went on down at Austin a couple months ago?? I was highly intriqued when I read the testing and saw the pictures of a life long Wing rider and mechanic who got invited to that outing.. During his testing (which included 2 up riding with his wife and even a shot of them airborne on the new Wing) this person reported that he had had many many Wings and his latest one (believe it was a 2012) had a full aftermarket suspention job done to it and all the add ons to make it ride as good as it possibly could (it almost sounds like the 1800's came with Ink Pen springs in the forks similar to my 1st Gens) and that the new one - in stock form - was wayyyyy better than even his full "Monty" previous Wing - and that is what he reported in the Magazine (if anyone would like to read this,, I could probably find it).. Problem was,, after he purchased a new one he found and was able to actually get it out and spend time on it - he discovered that those words were farrrr from accurate... The latest report that I have read from this same person is now completely different than that of his original = OH MY GOSH THIS THING IS AMAZING Magazine report - problem is,, IMHO,, comes to be when thinking of all those people who read that magazine article and bought into the new Wing as completely and 100% better than even the best high dollar - fully modified previous model - does what I am trying to say here make sense at all???

If it does, IMHO, a far better plan than just going but what we read/hear and even a better plan than a quick demo IMHO is to rent one and CTFW for at least one solid day on it... Its hard to really get a feel and to find little things that can be important on 20 minute demo's IMHO.. What da heck,, most Demo doer's wont even let you let the bike sit in one spot for 30 minutes idling to duplicate sitting in traffic - you know cause you have been around bikes and covered a ton of miles on em - ya gotta be able to take the bike out and run it thru its paces, if your gonna be riding 2 up,, best be running it thru its paces 2up too IMHO ...

 

Here's a few shots of some of my history with HD you asked about..

 

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by cowpuc

[YamahaParExcellence]

I really really really love Harley's and always have.. Take that with a grain of salt though cause I have a HUGE flaw in my characater that leaves me helpless to really really really like all bikes ... As shown in the pics (and those are only a few pics from the digital camera age), I have owned numerous Harleys - have rode em hard cross country, built em for HP gains, chopped em for fun and for , hill climbed em and dirt rode em (lots of folks dont know this but in the early days,, before the evil metric Empire took over so we didn't have to spin wrenches as much - HD V-Twins dominated the hills and forest of motorcycle off roading)... Fact is,, IMHO,, if it were not for HD keeping the ancient air cooled, V-Twin push rod motor alive with some AMAZING demographic and marketing understanding thru the years - I think the basic air cooled pushrod big V-Twin design would have died off long ago but,,, it hasn't..

Due mainly to this, I also consider any form of that archiac but iconic design that is non-Harley a clone/wanna be/imposter attempt at sneaking off with part of the market that Harley owns and attempts at sneaking off with a piece of that pie has been going on for many many years now.. Companies like Polaris with their failed Victory models that they stopped production on because they just didnt sell (still to this day - Polaris does not release actual unit sales numbers BUT - Polaris Motorcycle V.P. Menetto did have a slip of the tongue in a press release about their Indian repop that under 125 thousand Victories were sold during the years that Polaris was producing them and this was during the hay days before the economy tanked and at a time when that number represented a quarterly production number just for the HD Sportster!!!) are still chasing that pie and putting millions of dollars into RnD with their Indian remake in trying to get even a taste of the HD pie and now with Yamaha's latest shot at the task (a task that they too have a very solid high rate of failure with - there is a longgg list of Yamaha V-Twins that havent cut it as there are with all metric manufactured clones) - I think it is very clear that even the bike manufacturers of the world clearly believe HD and their pie are here to stay..

Concerning parts availability, as long as there are bike parts being produced in any form for consumer consumption - HD will be there... Not just The Motor Company itself with it HUGE parts supply but also in the aftermarket.

Cost wise in both purchasing the bike new and upkeep - a person would be really smart to do some research and compare.. The days of paying x50 for a clutch cable like we did back in the 60/70's just because it said HD on the package is gone - now if ya want to sticker shock in both parts and bike prices look to Polaris as HD tends to be fairly on par with the metrics. While the new HD's may not have the latest and greatest in European stuff like electric windshields and also seem to rely on people buying into the idea that they are buying a motorcycle so a manual clutch and having to push the bike backwards instead of having a reverse gear may be part of their playbook BUT - HD paint quality is second to none (you wont find to many HD's rusting out along the fender creases in the show rooms like you will on the Polaris's) PLUS - and this is HUGE to many people - HD's accessory line and group outings/company backed outings are always top notch..

Nahhhhh,,, HD isnt going anywhere,, definitely not in the next 20 years IMHO... Personally,, if I were a betting man and gonna bet on who/what was gonna be left standing in the industry in 20/30 years,,,, I think Polaris will cease their Indian repop production and it will go the way of their Victories longgg before HD goes under and I think the new Venture will be another hard selling - low resale value Strat/Roadliner/V-Star/Roadie/VTX/Intruder/Vulcan metric that will find its way into that "heyyyy,, we tried" group.

On the same token though Yamster,,, I am also one who thinks that if/when battery technology catches up with the times and it gets to a point where a person and his wife can jump in their electric car or on their electric motorcycle and drive/ride non-stop for 800 miles at 80 mph with no recharge needed = at that time,, fossil fueled vehicles will all be in deep trouble so take this all in for what its worth..

Concerning what to buy,,, plan A's and B's and all that stuff??? Best advice EVER is to ride em,, all of em and form your own opinion from what YOU experience.. Even a better plan than a quick demo IMHO is to rent one and CTFW for at least one solid day on it... Its hard to really get a feel and to find little things that can be important on 20 minute demo's IMHO.. What da heck,, most Demo doer's wont even let you let the bike sit in one spot for 30 minutes idling to duplicate sitting in traffic - you know cause you have been around bikes and covered a ton of miles on em - ya gotta be able to take the bike out and run it thru its paces, if your gonna be riding 2 up,, best be running it thru its paces 2up too IMHO ...

 

Here's a few shots of some of my history with HD you asked about..

 

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112339http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112352http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112353http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112354http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112355http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112356http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112357http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112358http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112359http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112360http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112339http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112352http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112353http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112354http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112355http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112356http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112357http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112358http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112359http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112360http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112351http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112350http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112349http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112340http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112341http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112342http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112343http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112344http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112345http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112346http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112347http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112348http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112361

 

I'd say YOU are no HD virgin...LOL! Thanks for adding on the thread, Puc. I've had like about 12 bikes since being 15....you've had like 12 bikes----> per month! Enjoyed your points and take, Puc. All points, registered. I think renting one, as you say..for a thousand or so miles...will be a great a**-test litmus paper. Very good tips, and suggestions, all. If I go past my cut-off date for the SVTC...I think that I will NOT knee jerk..but will see if the wife and I want to go (a least myself) for a trip out to see the family in California and Arizona. That would be a great litmus test, for sure. As you say...whip into a travel centre, and let the bike sit for 10 minutes in one spot...and see how much heat does come off of those exhaust pipes and head fins. Great suggestions to simulate heavy stop and go traffic scenarios.

 

About the Venture though...I think that this bike is a long-term, will be in play--->keeper...and winner..and WILL be here for the long haul..because it is the very first Grand Tour that marries the high tech, with the emotional. Nobody has done this yet....not even the 2018 Road Glide Ultra that I am Plan B'ing... Personally, I think they found the niche....and at the right time....it should appeal to everybody that wants a fully dressed tour, and is not already convinced that they simply MUST HAVE a liquid cooled engine below them. My humble take, anyways...

 

Post Edit: Puc...I for one, would be very interested in that first and second read from the magazine writer for the 2018 Wing. I've been following it too...but would appreciate you posting links to the before and after use, articles. Just curiosity in play. Thanks.

 

Joe

Edited April 25, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence

[cowpuc]

I'd say YOU are no HD virgin...LOL! Thanks for adding on the thread, Puc. I've had like about 12 bikes since being 15....you've had like 12 bikes----> per month! Enjoyed your points and take, Puc. All points, registered. I think renting one, as you say..for a thousand or so miles...will be a great a**-test litmus paper. Very good tips, and suggestions, all. If I go past my cut-off date for the SVTC...I think that I will NOT knee jerk..but will see if the wife and I want to go (a least myself) for a trip out to see the family in California and Arizona. That would be a great litmus test, for sure. As you say...whip into a travel centre, and let the bike sit for 10 minutes in one spot...and see how much heat does come off of those exhaust pipes and head fins. Great suggestions to simulate heavy stop and go traffic scenarios.

 

About the Venture though...I think that this bike is a long-term, will be in play--->keeper...and winner..and WILL be here for the long haul..because it is the very first Grand Tour that marries the high tech, with the emotional. Nobody has done this yet....not even the 2018 Road Glide Ultra that I am Plan B'ing... Personally, I think they found the niche....and at the right time....it should appeal to everybody that wants a fully dressed tour, and is not already convinced that they simply MUST HAVE a liquid cooled engine below them. My humble take, anyways...

 

Post Edit: Puc...I for one, would be very interested in that first and second read from the magazine writer for the 2018 Wing. I've been following it too...but would appreciate you posting links to the before and after use, articles. Just curiosity in play. Thanks.

 

Joe

 

Here ya go Joe:

The text copy/paste:

""" My 2012 Wing had nearly $3,000 worth of Traxxion Dynamics suspension upgrades on it, and this new bike still handles better in stock form, and that is saying something because I had that bike about as dialed in as a Gold Wing could be. The only room for improvement I can see would be to allow the electronic damping adjustments for the shocks to be set independently from the selected ride-by-wire throttle mode."""

 

That came entirely from the report written and submitted to the following online Magazine by the author after the test session at Austin - the link to the full article is found here (very well done IMHO,,, good read!! - also,, scroll down in the report and notice the picture of the author and his wife "airborn" while testing out the new bikes suspension!!):

http://wingstuff.com/blog_detail/66013_2018_gold_wing_first_ride_review_by_fred_harmon

 

And here is a short video clip taken in Austin of the same person (go to 1:12 in the vid to see some air!!):

 

 

And then,, after purchasing one of the new bikes exactly like the one he and his wife had "demoed" down at Austin, the same person responded to this posting about the suspension on the new Wing:

 

"""The most evident thing about the new suspension is that it's wildly undersprung and underdamped. Without giving out exact numbers, the bike will readily sag more than 50% of the way through it's travel, with a light rider, solo, with no gear, and no accessories.

 

The rear is really really bad. It bottoms and then bucks over bumps even one up.

 

Heavy riders going two-up will just ride it around bottomed out like a truck full of bricks all day. The co-riders are going to hate the ride quality."""

 

With this comment:

 

""The rear shock could definitely use some help. I've noticed the rearwheel coming off the ground on bumps, and at higher speeds the rear end doesn't feel planted at all. I can't quite put my finger on the cause, I tried putting it in Sport Mode this afternoon, and it seemed like it helped a little, but the rear end just feels like it's wanting to bounce right off the pavement at times. I can't decide if its a damping problem (too much compression damping?) or a spring rate issue.""

 

All found in this thread at this site (there are many others dealing with the same issue but this will get you started):

http://gl1800riders.com/forums/170-traxxion-dynamics/398273-slop-new-steering-system-first-suspension-impression.html

 

That same original author later produced this video showing exactly how not quite correct his initial,, short ride assessment actually was:

 

And then this one after he had the suspension on his new Wing updated and he did a side by side comparison between the new "stock" Wing and the new updated Wing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=304XZkoZxlU

 

 

 

IMHO,, the above is a good example of why it may be prudent to not just do diligent online research and task those you trust for their opinions but also may be a good reason to follow thru with significant test riding (may be even to the extent of renting one and actually spending some time out CTFW) before taking the plunge...

 

On the same token though,,, many people - both experienced and those new to the sport - go out and purchase "site unseen" brand new bikes with absolutely no real thought about it other than they have a hunch its gonna fill their needs and, generally speaking the bikes probably do exactly what the owner had hoped for....

Edited April 25, 2018 by cowpuc

[YamahaParExcellence]

Here ya go Joe:

The text copy/paste:

""" My 2012 Wing had nearly $3,000 worth of Traxxion Dynamics suspension upgrades on it, and this new bike still handles better in stock form, and that is saying something because I had that bike about as dialed in as a Gold Wing could be. The only room for improvement I can see would be to allow the electronic damping adjustments for the shocks to be set independently from the selected ride-by-wire throttle mode."""

 

That came entirely from the report written and submitted to the following online Magazine by the author after the test session at Austin - the link to the full article is found here (very well done IMHO,,, good read!! - also,, scroll down in the report and notice the picture of the author and his wife "airborn" while testing out the new bikes suspension!!):

http://wingstuff.com/blog_detail/66013_2018_gold_wing_first_ride_review_by_fred_harmon

 

And here is a short video clip taken in Austin of the same person (go to 1:12 in the vid to see some air!!):

 

 

And then,, after purchasing one of the new bikes exactly like the one he and his wife had "demoed" down at Austin, the same person responded to this posting about the suspension on the new Wing:

 

"""The most evident thing about the new suspension is that it's wildly undersprung and underdamped. Without giving out exact numbers, the bike will readily sag more than 50% of the way through it's travel, with a light rider, solo, with no gear, and no accessories.

 

The rear is really really bad. It bottoms and then bucks over bumps even one up.

 

Heavy riders going two-up will just ride it around bottomed out like a truck full of bricks all day. The co-riders are going to hate the ride quality."""

 

With this comment:

 

""The rear shock could definitely use some help. I've noticed the rearwheel coming off the ground on bumps, and at higher speeds the rear end doesn't feel planted at all. I can't quite put my finger on the cause, I tried putting it in Sport Mode this afternoon, and it seemed like it helped a little, but the rear end just feels like it's wanting to bounce right off the pavement at times. I can't decide if its a damping problem (too much compression damping?) or a spring rate issue.""

 

All found in this thread at this site (there are many others dealing with the same issue but this will get you started):

http://gl1800riders.com/forums/170-traxxion-dynamics/398273-slop-new-steering-system-first-suspension-impression.html

 

That same original author later produced this video showing exactly how not quite correct his initial,, short ride assessment actually was:

 

And then this one after he had the suspension on his new Wing updated and he did a side by side comparison between the new "stock" Wing and the new updated Wing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=304XZkoZxlU

 

 

 

IMHO,, the above is a good example of why it may be prudent to not just do diligent online research and task those you trust for their opinions but also may be a good reason to follow thru with significant test riding (may be even to the extent of renting one and actually spending some time out CTFW) before taking the plunge...

 

 

Thank you, sir! Going to grab an early morning coffee and read away...!

[cowpuc]

Thank you, sir! Going to grab an early morning coffee and read away...!

 

You betcha my friend,, any time!! Enjoy!!!

[BigLenny]

YPE,

 

Take the time to read this Rider Magazine comparison between the 2018 Harley Road Glide Ultra, 2018 Indian Roadmaster, and the 2018 SVTC. I think you'll be very satisfied with your decision to purchase the SVTC.

 

Rider is one of the very reputable magazines, as it pertains to touring bikes.

 

http://ridermagazine.com/2018/04/06/2018-harley-road-glide-ultra-vs-indian-roadmaster-vs-yamaha-star-venture-tc-comparo-review/

[YamahaParExcellence]

YPE,

 

Take the time to read this Rider Magazine comparison between the 2018 Harley Road Glide Ultra, 2018 Indian Roadmaster, and the 2018 SVTC. I think you'll be very satisfied with your decision to purchase the SVTC.

 

Rider is one of the very reputable magazines, as it pertains to touring bikes.

 

http://ridermagazine.com/2018/04/06/2018-harley-road-glide-ultra-vs-indian-roadmaster-vs-yamaha-star-venture-tc-comparo-review/

 

Thanks, Lenny. Saw this and did the read. I called my YamahaVapor dealer this morning and he advised me that they were expecting a shipment in from Yamaha. I then asked him to contact me, if my bike was on the truck. No contact yet. I've practically have thrown the towel in. Yeah..I will give it to the end of May (for the sake of semantics), but I have now lost two months of the riding season already...and am quite frankly, pretty disgusted all round with Yamaha USA/CAN. So...no more 'update' or 'hoping', or rah-rah, forum posts from me. I'm rather quite now embarrassed by them all, actually. If I had my way, I'd appreciate Freebird taking down all my O.P. threads...for they look even to me, now like desperation for delivery...and frankly...they are. So Freebird...how 'bout with my **ABSOLUTE permission**, please remove all my 2018 Tech Forum posts. Please delete them. Just going to lay low in the bush..and if anything happens, it will be because a miracle happened and...Yamaha actually delivered the damn bike. Am I holding my breath anymore, Lenny? No. Mentally right now, I'm pretty much done with Yamaha as a supply/delivery manufacturer. This has gone on beyond all acceptance and reasonable patience. I'm done.

 

You never beat a dead horse, and as far as I am concerned...the horse is pretty much dead. Going to pay a visit to the Harley Dealer, tomorrow, and start serious price/deal negotiations. I'm going to tell him my situation...and that he has a chance, a serious chance to gain a first time customer for a Harley brand. A first time customer for a V-Twin configuration, and that if I am happy...and have a great dealer and owner experience, I am not shy...and quite vocal...and will certainly post my experiences for the positive. That equates to attention, in his/her direction....and, it can happen with delivery on Friday morning, June 1rst. So...thanks everyone...this thread has achieved its intention...and I know where I am now headed for a V-Twin. I'm headed into a manufacture's dealer that can not only take an order for a bike...but a week later, can have it damn well ready, or, at least being shipped for you! Thank's again, Folks. Now...back to the regular scheduled program, of this being a Yamaha Venture site.

 

Joe

Edited April 25, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence

[snyper316]

I meant to add one more thing to my post. If I actually WERE in the market for a new bike right now, I would absolutely be taking a very close look at the new Venture. Though I actually liked and got a kick out of the vibration of the Harley at idle, I love the looks of the new Venture and even more importantly, I like the technology that they brought with it. Different ride modes, traction control, reverse, etc. I haven't ridden one and am scared to. I'm afraid I would want one if I actually rode it. Haven't even seen one in person.

 

I still think that the Venture is a great choice for your Plan A. But the Harley is certainly worth consideration for your Plan B. Here is a picture of the 2013 that I had. This was before I added the Vance and Hines large ovals and a few other extras. Of course, the new ones got a re-design a year or two after my '13 model.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112331

 

Hell I just sat on one and drulled and wanted one. but my credit well stinks partly because up till the last couple years I got everything I own with Cash!!

so working on building my credit maybe next year..

[RandyR]

so what are the issues and costs of bringing a US model into Canada. I do occasionally see US dealers advertise that they will ship to Canada.

 

I did ship 2 650 Triumphs to Europe about 20 years ago. If I recall it wasn't too difficult. I found someone with an export license and paid him to do the paperwork and arrange the shipping.

[YamahaParExcellence]

so what are the issues and costs of bringing a US model into Canada. I do occasionally see US dealers advertise that they will ship to Canada.

 

I did ship 2 650 Triumphs to Europe about 20 years ago. If I recall it wasn't too difficult. I found someone with an export license and paid him to do the paperwork and arrange the shipping.

 

The problem in that endevour Randy, lies with this:

 

Let's say I get the bike for $25,000.00 (in Michigan) so $25,000.00 plus 6 % sales tax= $26,500.00 USF

 

Canada Customs will convert that to Canadian funds right at the border, whether you ride it across, or, a Dealer uses a broker (then there is brokerage fees)

 

That would now be: $26,500.00 USF, plus 30% added CDN conversion cost= $34,450.00 CDN

 

Wait, it gets better------>...Canada is not finished with you yet: Canada Customs will now add on the Ontario Sales Tax of 13% to that amount, landed.

 

The bike coming across the border now will cost you to land it in Ontario, from a U.S. dealer (Michigan as an example) for: $38,928.00 That is what it would cost you to bring it over from a U.S. purchase. Now, you compare that to buying it from a Canadian dealer: Right now, most are selling it for $1,000 less than the MSRP of $31,999.00. The bike will cost you $30,999.00 plus 13 % HST: so a total of: $35,028.87 CDN in total. Take $38,928 (converted from an import to Ontario, Canada (minus) the landed in Canada price non-converted $35,028.87, and the bike now costs you $3,899.18 CDN more. I guess it's how much you want to have this bike cost you...just because Yamaha Canada, couldn't ship a bike to a customer. For myself...that won't be happening. I don't need their bike that badly... So...that's the scoop about importing bikes or cars into Canada, when our dollar is worth 0.70 of yours. It sucks. The system is rigged, to discourage you from an international purchase. Also, Yamaha Corp, can leverage duties and tax breaks, to come up with their Canadian MSRP.

 

Now..what is glaringly the added cost..is that the U.S. dealer must charge you the 6% Michigan Sales Tax. He can bring it to the border...directly and declare it a shipped out of State, and you avoid that 6 %, but..then you have to pay a Customs House (broker) to handle the paperwork. So..you only trade a 6% fee, for another loaded in cost. No winning here.

 

There was a Gibson 5 String Banjo that I could not get in Toronto. I then ordred it from a New York Gibson dealer...and when all was in...it cost me $450.00 (in shipping, duties, brokerage fees) more than had I been able to buy it at a Toronto dealer that sold Gibson and driven home with it. It's not just motorcycles or cars..that they ram you.

Edited April 26, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence

[RandyR]

Ya, I wouldn't want to pay too much extra..

 

I believe that you can likely avoid paying any US sales tax for an item if it is shipped by commercial carrier. A dealer network may exist for this?

 

The state of New Hampshire which borders Quebec does not have a state sales tax which makes buying things there attractive.

 

But, I would have likely moved on to another machine by now.

[Du-Rron]

Thanks, Lenny. Saw this and did the read. I called my YamahaVapor dealer this morning ...

 

Oh good lawdy Yamaha. Can't you squeak out just one more bike this year for this poor fellow. Heck, Harley builds extra just to cover the ones that fall off the trucks on their own... They call it... "The 1st Monday of the month morning day shift shortages coverage run for the current quarter". Ain't no sweat to produce a couple hundred extra..... before noon.

[YamahaParExcellence]

Ya, I wouldn't want to pay too much extra..

 

I believe that you can likely avoid paying any US sales tax for an item if it is shipped by commercial carrier. A dealer network may exist for this?

 

The state of New Hampshire which borders Quebec does not have a state sales tax which makes buying things there attractive.

 

But, I would have likely moved on to another machine by now.

 

Randy...you only have to have the dealer, OR...his shipping agent deliver it TO Canada Custom's clearing to negate the dealer requiring you to pay the Mich Sales tax, at point-of-sale. That's what I was mentioning...but...now, you have the dealer's shipping cost (in U.S. funds...) AND...you now need the services of a Customs Brokerage House, (with office at the Border)...(again..a fee gets applied, and slapped onto the total cost of the 'deal'.) Same exact scenario that I went step by step to demonstrate...but in your suggestion, you now even have the 3rP's shipping costs TO the border. No win, Randy...

 

I have imported things during my time in Canada, and you really have to want that special thing, or it is something that simply can not be purchased anywhere in Canada...that then mitigates the cost you pay out...

[YamahaParExcellence]

Oh good lawdy Yamaha. Can't you squeak out just one more bike this year for this poor fellow. Heck, Harley builds extra just to cover the ones that fall off the trucks on their own... They call it... "The 1st Monday of the month morning day shift shortages coverage run for the current quarter". Ain't no sweat to produce a couple hundred extra..... before noon.

 

"Thank you for the post...it made me laugh. I needed to laugh. I guess, it is, what it is...who knows..maybe the 'gods' will look down on me...and in the next 34 days...the 'cardboard' will come...".

 

Didn't someone say...that if you build the field, 'they' will come? I'm going to go out tomorrow and build a Yamaha Dealership in my back yard...for perhaps, THEN...'it' will come.

 

You laugh at this crap...or you cry...I'd rather laugh...

[ChiefGunner]

The problem in that endevour Randy, lies with this:

 

Let's say I get the bike for $25,000.00 (in Michigan) so $25,000.00 plus 6 % sales tax= $26,500.00 USF

 

Canada Customs will convert that to Canadian funds right at the border, whether you ride it across, or, a Dealer uses a broker (then there is brokerage fees)

 

That would now be: $26,500.00 USF, plus 30% added CDN conversion cost= $34,450.00 CDN

 

Wait, it gets better------>...Canada is not finished with you yet: Canada Customs will now add on the Ontario Sales Tax of 13% to that amount, landed.

 

The bike coming across the border now will cost you to land it in Ontario, from a U.S. dealer (Michigan as an example) for: $38,928.00 That is what it would cost you to bring it over from a U.S. purchase. Now, you compare that to buying it from a Canadian dealer: Right now, most are selling it for $1,000 less than the MSRP of $31,999.00. The bike will cost you $30,999.00 plus 13 % HST: so a total of: $35,028.87 CDN in total. Take $38,928 (converted from an import to Ontario, Canada (minus) the landed in Canada price non-converted $35,028.87, and the bike now costs you $3,899.18 CDN more. I guess it's how much you want to have this bike cost you...just because Yamaha Canada, couldn't ship a bike to a customer. For myself...that won't be happening. I don't need their bike that badly... So...that's the scoop about importing bikes or cars into Canada, when our dollar is worth 0.70 of yours. It sucks. The system is rigged, to discourage you from an international purchase. Also, Yamaha Corp, can leverage duties and tax breaks, to come up with their Canadian MSRP.

 

Now..what is blaringly the added cost..is that the U.S. dealer must charge you the 6% Michigan Sales Tax. He can bring it to the border...directly and declare it a shipped out of State, BUT..then you have to pay a Customs House (broker) to handle the paperwork. So..you only trade a 6% fee, for another loaded in cost. No winning here.

 

There was a Gibson 5 String Banjo that I could not get in Toronto. I then ordred it from a New York Gibson dealer...and when all was in...it cost me $450.00 (in shipping, duties, brokerage fees) more than had I been able to buy it at a Toronto dealer that sold Gibson and driven home with it. It's not just motorcycles or cars..that they ram you.

 

I don’t understand you? Did you not say that Yamaha said it’s on the way? Did you not get a call from Yamaha themselves? Did you not say that you would give them AT LEAST until May 5th? WHY are you bouncing around like a a pachinko ball in a machine? This is the “BigOne” the decision that’s gonna be with you for YEARS to come. Call Yamaha DIRECT at Customer Relations. Talk to someone directly. Go after the answer instead of waiting for someone to contact you. Heck, Customer Relations knows me by first name and I’ve got them on SPEED DIAL!

I just don’t want you to jump out of impatience into something you may regret for a LONG time.

Just my take as an SVTC owner.

[YamahaParExcellence]

I don’t understand you? Did you not say that Yamaha said it’s on the way? Did you not get a call from Yamaha themselves? Did you not say that you would give them AT LEAST until May 5th? WHY are you bouncing around like a a pachinko ball in a machine? This is the “BigOne” the decision that’s gonna be with you for YEARS to come. Call Yamaha DIRECT at Customer Relations. Talk to someone directly. Go after the answer instead of waiting for someone to contact you. Heck, Customer Relations knows me by first name and I’ve got them on SPEED DIAL!

I just don’t want you to jump out of impatience into something you may regret for a LONG time.

Just my take as an SVTC owner.

 

Chief, yes..I did say that I would wait until actually May 30th...but the time line, pointed that it was only a week away from shipping to the dealer. I asked my dealer this morning, if they got ANY word (not asking for just the VIN) that it was at the warehouse, or upon the truck. They got nothing back from Yamaha...except to say that they WERE getting some dealer stock in today on a truck. They did...but my SVTC was not on it. So..I guess, I have to just keep my fingertips to myself...and hide my extreme frustration in all of this.

 

I intend to ride my Kawa tomorrow to the Harley Dealer,....sit on the Road Glide Ultra...lean it, feel it...play with the infortainment whatever's....and then grab a coffee, and talk turkey. I want to know before the end of next month, what I can expect to have to pay out to go Harley. I also took a look at the Kawasaki Voyager 1700 and thought that I would also stop by my Kawa dealer...and check that puppy out. Just options, Chief...in case this is an absolute bust. The other option, if I don't let my anger get the best of me...and I'm human...and pi*sed right off now, to above the gunwales...is to just apologize to Mama...and ride my ZR7S this summer...then see if Yamaha gets their Canadian act together, and has 2019's in for the month of August/18. That might also happen. What would drive me over the edge, there though...would be if my hunch is right...the '19's come with a two or three year warranty, and a 3 or 4 % MSRP hike.

 

This...is my anti-Yamaha stressed out, Prosaic pill----->

 

I just have a feeling that the 5 year warranty that you have in your back pocket, was to entice sales for the introductory year. Maybe, maybe not. My crystal ball has a crack in it...

 

The bottom line here is, though...that you poor folks won't have to read my 'it's coming....'it's coming posts, because some schmuck from Yamaha Canada (a few days ago,) said so....I'm going to rein in, and spare everybody that. The next time I type about a 2018 SVTC...will be for if I have the F*****G thing,...and pictures accompany the post! Other than that...the fingertips get slapped, lol!

 

Cheers,

Joe

Edited April 26, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence