A honest question...wondering about the Harley Davidson Co's standing into the future

[YamahaParExcellence]

While I'm waiting for my SVTC to show up at my dealer...and being that I have had some 'rough edges', in this regard...and being that I always like a Plan 'B'...

...and BEING that I have never had any history or experience with Harley Davidson, in owning one, or in following the tribe...

 

I invite anybody's opinion, of what THEY think about the present state-of-the Union, as regards this company..and IF...for any reason I do not end up getting my SVTC...(for any reason), I am seriously at this stage of events, entertaining that I would indeed look at this brand.

I have always had, a Honda 4 or 6 cylinder Gold Wing (from 1975 onward) for all my Grand Touring life, but now, in my 60's, want something of a change up. I'm bored. I have never owned a large bore V-Twin, and do want to do so now. I want to experience the so-called 'emotional' side of Grand Tour. Every one of my five Gold Wings, were rock-on, rock-steady, rock-reliable, but...just..well...they were mundane. Like getting a hug from your beloved grandmother. What I am trying to say, is that they always got me, or as two up, us...there. But I never felt the rumble of the engine, never had a sound from the pipes that hinted at the massive power of the engine. I wonder if this is even coming across right through my fingertips...I hope so.

 

When I ride my Kawasaki ZR-7S, I FEEL the road, I feel the motor pulses, even though it is a four cylinder engine. It is exciting, (emotional?) GETTING THERE.... I want to feel that connection to my bike, but when touring. That was one of the exciting things I was/am looking forward to in the purchase of the SVTC. Smoothness of a flat six..(but, with some intentional Yamaha engineer'ed ----> not quite) Ride of a Gold Wing, but with just some 'Yamaha' Bad Boy, to go along with it. I want that now as I move into the twilight of my motorcycle years...and feel that I have about 10 good years left, before 'stuff' can happen, on a day-to-day that will point to selling the bike...and moving on to my piano bench.

 

So...in 10,000 words or less...IF, for any reason, any reason that the fates just don't see me getting an SVTC this year....for all the members here, that have owned, still own, want to own...a Harley Davidson Ultra, do you think they are a good bike, with the Milwaukee 8 partial-liquid cooling, in them? Do you think that Harley will ALWAYS be around...or do any of you think that Harley could be in real trouble, as a one-horse venue company...and that their core prior market metrics are literally dying out, retiring from the sport...and that will ultimately cause the Company to financially, be no longer viable.

 

But...the final question...even if that should occur...would you think that there would be plenty of parts out there...or after-market that would allow you to run the bike for at least the next 15 years, without it being parked, because you could not get a part you needed? Honestly, these are questions and considerations that are running through my mind, while I wait out this very long and protracted purchase of the SVTC. Yes..I have been told it is coming. But until I get the call to come down and see them un-crate my bike, it is truly until that time, vapor-bike. I DO KNOW, that I want a V-Twin configuration more than my wife, as per WHAT we end up with. She is OK with whatever I want. She was also OK quite frankly to just keep our 2008 Wing. So bless her...she is letting me play like a kid in the sandbox near to retirement. She's good either way.

 

What do you folks think? Will Harley (as long as motorcycles are legal to own and run...) always be viable, and alive? At least around for the next 15 years? I intend to lurk on a few dediated Harley sites as well, over the next couple of weeks, but wanted first to read about anybody's opinion that care to respond, while NOT on a dedicated Harley website. I don't want totally Lord of the Flies, bias...just those that have, or had, a Harley, but also have no problem owning a metric as well. I think there...you will get a rounded opinion...and not just chest thumping...

 

Thanks, any opinions will be appreciated. I am a Harley Davidson Virgin....

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/03/harley-davidson-tries-to-regain-its-coolness-factor.html

Edited April 24, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence

[CaseyJ955]

Nope. Dwindling. They are getting better but it's far to little, far to late. Consumers are wising up, it's to hard to deny the vastly better value offered by virtually any non-Chinese motorcycle manufacturer. Their targeted demographic is graying and hanging up the keys. Seems many younger guys aint so enamored as their fathers were. Far better alternatives exist now. I see them make for the younger buyers but then they have to compete with some really amazing machines from Japan and Germany, often for less money. Unless HD can make some honestly new models with some impressive hardware, they are all but gone. HD does not know this yet, but a paint scheme or theme is NOT a new model.

 

If HD even went back and had a look at their Nova project, that could lead to something really cool.

 

I'm still predicting they will be pretty much gone from the map within about 20 years. They may manufacture a few novelty bikes a year and possibly sell leftover merch, if customers for it exist, but being a mass manufacturer will just not be viable going forward. Remember how Indian was dormant and bought up, even Triumph went dark for a few years, although they came back in Hinkley and have been churning out some damn fine machines. I think HD has seen it's peak and prime, a while ago. The end is not all that far off for HD.

 

As far as parts availability, absolutely. Millions of these things have been made and very few and slight changes between years. There are countless HD's aging on CL right now. Even after the company lawn darts into the earth we will be seeing HDs on the road for many years yet and parts plentiful on the used market. Also plenty of aftermarket.

[YamahaParExcellence]

Nope. Dwindling. They are getting better but it's far to little, far to late. Consumers are wising up, it's to hard to deny the vastly better value offered by virtually any non-Chinese motorcycle manufacturer. Their targeted demographic is graying and hanging up the keys. Seems many younger guys aint so enamored as their fathers were. Far better alternatives exist now. I see them make for the younger buyers but then they have to compete with some really amazing machines from Japan and Germany, often for less money. Unless HD can make some honestly new models with some impressive hardware, they are all but gone. HD does not know this yet, but a paint scheme or theme is NOT a new model.

 

If HD even went back and had a look at their Nova project, that could lead to something really cool.

 

I'm still predicting they will be pretty much gone from the map within about 20 years. They may manufacture a few novelty bikes a year and possibly sell leftover merch, if customers for it exist, but being a mass manufacturer will just not be viable going forward. Remember how Indian was dormant and bought up, even Triumph went dark for a few years, although they came back in Hinkley and have been churning out some damn fine machines. I think HD has seen it's peak and prime, a while ago. The end is not all that far off for HD.

 

As far as parts availability, absolutely. Millions of these things have been made and very few and slight changes between years. There are countless HD's aging on CL right now. Even after the company lawn darts into the earth we will be seeing HDs on the road for many years yet and parts plentiful on the used market. Also plenty of aftermarket.

 

Thanks, appreciate your comments. You do bring up a great point...the used bike market for HD. I have always bought new, each bike..but if I do have to go this route, that is a very good lead. Probably can pick one up for a substantial savings. Not a Mil 8 yet...I guess?

Edited April 24, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence

[luvmy40]

I'm a shovel head man. My last Harley Davidson was the last year they produced the shovel head. It was the 1984 FXST. 1340cc, carburated (Mikuni), chain primary drive, belt final drive.

 

That bike and I went cross country many times. It only once gave any trouble, and that was my fault. I let the top end go too long and fragged a valve on the highway in Jackson Mississippi. That was the only time I paid anyone to work on that bike.

 

I can't speak for the newer HDs. I wrote them off after a a bad experience at a local stealership left me with blood shooting out of my eyes. To say I was pissed would be the understatement of the century.

 

I would by a vintage HD at a decent price any day. The after market support is far better than the factory support ever was, and it was good at one time.

 

HD's corporate attitude is why I'll never give them any of my money again. They forgot about the working class guys that kept them alive during the AMF fiasco, though they came back strong(and with the right attitude) in the early eighties. These days they don't care if real "bikers" or riders buy their product, they target the RUB crowd with their branding status and give little thought to reliability and customer service. Sign up for the newest model, wait for it then shell out the $ for factory service until the thing falls apart and they forget you.

 

If they don't come back to being customer service oriented company, they won't be around much longer.

 

$0.02, YMMV

Edited April 24, 2018 by luvmy40

[ChiefGunner]

IMHO the SVTC is a direct competitor to the Harley Baggers. YES, you can FEEL the power pulses of the big v-twin but it’s subtle and not jarring. To get a comparably equipped HD with ALL the amenities of a SVTC you’d pay $40k+ IF they even have some of the functions. My local dealership in the last 1.5 mos has had at least 4 HD riders trade their’s in on a new SVTC. One of them only had 3k miles on it. That alone says something. Also, I found an HD dealership online that is actually selling the SVTC! I know you’ve seen the pics of my baby outside the Biker Bar I occasionally frequent. Almost all are HD hard core. I pulled up one day when I first got it and 4 guys came out to the sound of a low rumbling v-twin. They started asking questions about it. By the time I was done showing them the functions & pricing, one of the riders said, “Dang! If that’s what Yamaha is doing these days, SCREW Harley!” I think HD riders are tired of paying a premium but not getting what they want. As someone here also said “HD has made some improvements but it’s too little too late.”

Again IMHO, you will not be disappointed in your choice to go SVTC.

[Sylvester]

Have you looked at the Indian? I like them other than they are air cooled and I love the balance and throttle response. At my age keeping my 02 running is enough for me. If I were to get a "new" bike it would be the Indian Scout and it is water cooled.

 

[zagger]

"But I never felt the rumble of the engine, never had a sound from the pipes that hinted at the massive power of the engine. I wonder if this is even coming across right through my fingertips...I hope so. "

 

Sorry, but I'm guessing that you will find it to be heavy and slow - not much massive power. I've rented new Harley's two times to ride down Highway 1 on the California coast (sorry, don't remember the model). Both times I was left wishing that it was possible to rent some other type of bike with more zip. If you are actually wondering about your purchase plans, I'd suggest finding a rental and try it out on a short trip. I haven't investigated this recently, but Harley's used to be the only brand of bike that could be rented from a dealer.

zag

[RandyR]

The linked article you listed did not mention the relatively new HD Street which is a water cooled 500cc or 750cc vtwin in an inexpensive (for HD) package. I find that a strange omission?????

 

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/2018/street/street-500.html

 

I find the weight of my RSTD a bit difficult to handle in some situations, mostly due to (my poor technique) handling in slow speed turns. A HD Street is high on my list of possible replacement bikes, as is a more traditional HD Sportster.

 

A large HD touring bike is not something I would consider, although I have thought about the 2018 HD Softtail Lowrider (red one above). Actually I am having lunch today near a HD dealer and am planning on doing some tire kicking of the models I've mentioned here.

 

There are a lot of HD's out there. Even if HD Inc completely closed their doors (I doubt it) parts would still be made by 3rd parties for a long time. With the latest CNC machines its easier than ever to make custom engine parts that before. There are people still fabricating parts for Vincents...

 

 

Re: Large Bore Vtwins... there's Indian now as a competitor to HD.

Edited April 24, 2018 by RandyR

[YamahaParExcellence]

IMHO the SVTC is a direct competitor to the Harley Baggers. YES, you can FEEL the power pulses of the big v-twin but it’s subtle and not jarring. To get a comparably equipped HD with ALL the amenities of a SVTC you’d pay $40k+ IF they even have some of the functions. My local dealership in the last 1.5 mos has had at least 4 HD riders trade their’s in on a new SVTC. One of them only had 3k miles on it. That alone says something. Also, I found an HD dealership online that is actually selling the SVTC! I know you’ve seen the pics of my baby outside the Biker Bar I occasionally frequent. Almost all are HD hard core. I pulled up one day when I first got it and 4 guys came out to the sound of a low rumbling v-twin. They started asking questions about it. By the time I was done showing them the functions & pricing, one of the riders said, “Dang! If that’s what Yamaha is doing these days, SCREW Harley!” I think HD riders are tired of paying a premium but not getting what they want. As someone here also said “HD has made some improvements but it’s too little too late.”

Again IMHO, you will not be disappointed in your choice to go SVTC.

 

Right Chief, not at all questioning my reasons to have laid down money for the SVTC...but only planning, and thinking 'out-loud' and inviting other's opinions of the brand. Cheers!

My anticipated SVTC is the prime plan....but I always operate with options.

 

Joe

[YamahaParExcellence]

"But I never felt the rumble of the engine, never had a sound from the pipes that hinted at the massive power of the engine. I wonder if this is even coming across right through my fingertips...I hope so. "

 

Sorry, but I'm guessing that you will find it to be heavy and slow - not much massive power. I've rented new Harley's two times to ride down Highway 1 on the California coast (sorry, don't remember the model). Both times I was left wishing that it was possible to rent some other type of bike with more zip. If you are actually wondering about your purchase plans, I'd suggest finding a rental and try it out on a short trip. I haven't investigated this recently, but Harley's used to be the only brand of bike that could be rented from a dealer.

zag

 

Great idea..and yes, I have researched that thought. There is a riding vacation place..just not right now on the tip of the tongue, that would let you...(I was looking at this vakay...) rent a Harley of your choice, and ride it one way from Los Angeles, to Phoenix (as the sign-in point). It need not be a direct route, Grand Canyon could be part of it, or Vegas. I was certainly thinking of that. I would have nothing to lose, and I have family both in L.A. and Phoenix. It would be the Ultra, if I chose to 'demo' the brand. Yep...certainly have thought about that.

 

(Hey...if any V.P's of Yamaha are lurking around here...it might be a good time to call the Captain of the freighter, and have him kick it up a few knots...lol. Yeah..that's what I'd do....) Nobody likes a slow boat from Japan!

[YamahaParExcellence]

The linked article you listed did not mention the relatively new HD Street which is a water cooled 500cc or 750cc vtwin in an inexpensive (for HD) package. I find that a strange omission?????

 

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/2018/street/street-500.html

 

I find the weight of my RSTD a bit difficult to handle in some situations, mostly due to (my poor technique) handling in slow speed turns. A HD Street is high on my list of possible replacement bikes, as is a more traditional HD Sportster.

 

A large HD touring bike is not something I would consider, although I have thought about the 2018 HD Softtail Lowrider (red one above). Actually I am having lunch today near a HD dealer and am planning on doing some tire kicking of the models I've mentioned here.

 

There are a lot of HD's out there. Even if HD Inc completely closed their doors (I doubt it) parts would still be made by 3rd parties for a long time. With the latest CNC machines its easier than ever to make custom engine parts that before. There are people still fabricating parts for Vincents...

 

 

Re: Large Bore Vtwins... there's Indian now as a competitor to HD.

 

Yep, I looked at the Indians as well. I'd like a little more traditional shape of the twin towers, more to what the SVTC and the Harley's have. Just personal preference. The only Harley I would consider, would be the Ultra, (EDIT) After reading Freebird's post...am going to look at the 2018 Road Glide Ultra version of the full bagger...(loaded right up...) I also, of course, could wait until next year for the SVTC 19's. I'm sure they will be plentifully available, and Yamaha not starve out their Canadian dealers, as with the introductory year. That was a serious fumble...even if they wanted to cautiously test the waters...

Post Edit: I have decided that I'm not waiting for the 19's...and punish my wife out of some great riding op's this summer. That's not going to happen. Yamaha, or Harley Davidson...heck, they're all good...each ride will get you there.

Edited April 25, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence

[YamahaParExcellence]

Have you looked at the Indian? I like them other than they are air cooled and I love the balance and throttle response. At my age keeping my 02 running is enough for me. If I were to get a "new" bike it would be the Indian Scout and it is water cooled.

 

 

Yes, looked and read about them this morning. Thank you! Much appreciated.

[Yammer Dan]

I came from a 56 Pan full blown Chopper. Made the Old Man's on Orange County look sick. Do I miss it??? H*LL YES!! Would I go back?? H*LL NO!! It is part how much easier the Yamaha's are on the pocketbook and a lot that they don't require 1/2 the wrenching those old Thumpers did!! And I don't need to attract the girls now!!! If funds were available I would have one in the garage for Sundays!! But my Yamaha would roll the rest of the week!! But as said Hardley has came a long ways.......so???

[BigLenny]

YPE,

 

I can't give you a personal experience of owning a Harley. There are others here who can, and I'm sure will. Freebird, the owner of our wonderful site here might possibly chime in pretty soon about his experience/opinion of the Road Glide Ultra that he owned a few years back. I have test ridden several Ultra's over the past couple years at bike rally's and such, and I gotta tell ya, I was really impressed with the ride and drive of them, with the exception of 2 things: The classic Harley vibration at idle would eventually drive me nuts, and the the bike just seems too scrunched up for my 6'6" frame. It's a shorter distance between the saddle and the handlebars than my RSTD, and absolutely more scruched up than that big beautiful SVTC you're waiting on (I've test ridden it). But, everytime I ride one, I come away with an understanding of why so many people ride Harley. Are today's Harleys the quality of Yamaha, Honda, BMW, etc? I have a tendency to believe they aren't, but I can't stake the deed of my house on it. It appears Harley has made crazy great strides in their quality in the past 10 years or so.

 

I do have a family story to throw at ya though:

I have a cousin and her husband who were die hard Goldwing riders for years. I mean like GW nuts. They went through 4-5 Goldwings over the years, and have ridden every state in the country except for Alaska. They made it a point to go to the Wing Dings rally every year. Had all of the Goldwing branded riding gear. I mean true GW ambassadors.

Well, a few years ago, right after Harley introduced their new water cooled Ultra bikes, they were returning from a two week ride out west, and stopped at a Harley dealer in Colorado, just for the heck of it. I do that sometimes, even though I'm not a Harley rider. Well, outa the blue, I got a texted photo of them standing beside this brand new Electra Glide Ultra with the message, "We got a new bike"!. I quickly responded with, "yeah, right". BUt, they confirmed it was true, and that they were about to leave the dealership to ride it home to Arkansas. Myself, and all the other family members who ride bikes about fell out!!! None of us ride Harley's in this family, and these two would've been the LAST of any of us who could've been pegged as possible future Harley riders.

Well, since that time, I'm pleased to report that they have absolutely LOVED their Harley. Actually, a year later, they traded it in on a water cooled Road Glide Ultra because they wanted the fixed fairing. They have ridden the hair off of that thing the past couple years, and have turned into true Harley fans. Every time i talk to them, I make it a point to ask them how they're feeling about the Harley ownership. No regrets from them. The biggest difference they are enjoying is the dealership experiences as they travel across the country.

 

You're gonna love your SVTC when it gets to ya. And, the thing that is gonna be so cool for you is; it is going to be a unique ride that nobody else around you will have. You can't say that about a Harley. When you buy a Harley (or even a GW), you're just part of this sea of sameness that a ton of other folks are part of. Bores the heck out of me! But, your SVTC, now that's gonna be a conversation piece whenever you ride up to motorcycle joints.

 

Big Lenny

[ChiefGunner]

Have you looked at the Indian? I like them other than they are air cooled and I love the balance and throttle response. At my age keeping my 02 running is enough for me. If I were to get a "new" bike it would be the Indian Scout and it is water cooled.

 

I’ve got almost 5k miles in my SVTC and some of it in 80 degree weather and I haven’t noticed a heat issue. My 91 MK2 Venture Royale was water cooled but the fan just blew it up around me, so the heat IMHO is really no different.

[Freebird]

Like many here, I have owned a lot of different bikes over the past 48 or so years. I have had a few that I liked better than others but none that I absolutely hated. They all have their own character.

 

I owned an '88 Venture Royale and just couldn't adapt to the seating position. Most of that is because I am 6'2 and have long legs. I used to buy Levis with a 36" inseam but I guess my inseam is actually around 35". I just couldn't get comfortable on the first gen Venture. Then I bought a 1986 Harley FXRD. It was actually a great bike and I had no problems with it at all but the FXRD was a single year production model and aftermarket accessories, exhaust, etc. were almost impossible to find. When the RSV came out in 1999, I loved it and took delivery of mine in April of 1999.

 

I will have to say that the '99 RSV topped the list, by far, of my favorite bike of all time. I rode it until 2013 when I got the itch for something different. I bought a brand new 2013 Harley Road Glide Ultra. Now it was somewhat of a spur of the moment decision. Not that I hadn't been thinking about it for a while but I woke up on a Saturday morning and just mentioned to my wife that I was really thinking about it again. She said, well, you've been wanting to do it for a while so get on the phone and see if you can find what you want. I actually planned to buy an Ultra Classic and called a few dealers. I found one in Medina, OH, about 30 minutes from my house, that had the Ultra Classic that I wanted. They closed at 5:00 on Saturday so we hopped in the car and drove over. We got there around 3:30. They actually had 5 or 6 Ultra Classics on the floor but right by the door, they had a brand new Road Glide Ultra and my wife spotted it. She liked it better than the Ultra. Once I sat on both bikes, I knew that the Road Glide was the choice for me. Though technically, they are exactly the same from the faring back, the Road Glide just felt much roomier to me. I felt really close and a bit scrunched on the Ultra but not on the Road Glide. So we did our negotiations and finalized the deal around 4:30. I asked the salesman what day they could have it ready and he told me that he had already had it taken to the back and it would be ready to go in about 30 minutes. So, I rode it home that day.

 

Now, it happened that we had a lot of family illness issues start about that time so we didn't get to ride near as much as we expected to. I will say though that it came very close to being my favorite over the RSV. It depends on what you want out of a bike but I can tell you, it had plenty of power but more importantly, the power band actually suited the style of riding that I've settled over the past few years. My "speed demon" days are over for the most part and I loved the low rpm torque that the VTwins are so good at. The seating position was every bit as comfortable as my RSV and my wife thought that the passenger seat was better than the Yamaha. Though we didn't ride as much as we hoped to, we did get in a couple of decent trips. I also managed to complete two iron butt rides on it, one was the 1,000 miles in 24 hours and the other was 1500 miles in 36 hours or something like that. The 1,000 miler I actually did 1140 going and then the same coming back and completed he 2280 in just over 30 hours. Rode it non-stop there, slept about 4 hours, rode non-stop back home. I can honestly say that I was very comfortable for that entire ride.

 

I only kept the Harley for about 2 years. Life got in the way and it ended up sitting in the garage most of the time. I think I put a total of around 19,000 miles on it and most of that was the first year. So, I decided to sell it. As for reliability, I can only say that for the two years and close to 20,000 miles that I owned it, it never went back to the shop for any reason other than the first service which was part of my deal. After that, I serviced it myself.

 

Now if I had to place any fault on the bike, it was certainly the heat. I was just brutal on a hot day, especially if you got caught in traffic. We were coming home from the VentureRider rally in Illinois shortly after buying it and we hit Chicago at the wrong time. In that traffic, it was actually painful. I felt that my thighs were almost blistering. My wife didn't complain much but it was her feet that got roasted. Then we also took a little trip to Hilton Head, S.C. and though most of the trip was pleasant enough, when we were pulling into our hotel at Hilton Head it was 101 degrees and about 90% humidity. No doubt it would have been hot on the Venture also but I felt like I was sitting on a big heater on that Harley. If I could point at any fault of the Harley for deciding to sell it, it would certainly have been the heat. I did take several recommended steps to reduce the heat and it may have helped some but didn't ride it enough to really find out. Removed the catalytic convertor, free flowing exhaust and air filters, Tuner and richened up the fuel mixture, etc. To be honest though, it was more of a financial decision. I just couldn't see having that much money tied up in something that was now just sitting in the garage.

 

So, after two years, I sold the Road Glide and then bought another RSV which I still have. There were things that I liked better about the Harley, primarily the low rpm torque but also the lower center of gravity, availability of aftermarket accessories, and yes, we even like the fact that there were so many shirts, jackets, etc. on the market. I wish that Yamaha would offer more branded merchandise as well.

 

I would have no problem owning another Harley. I doubt I ever will but one never knows for sure. The fact is, we still aren't riding like we once did and my '05 RSV will likely last me my lifetime. It is completely setup the way I like it and I really don't know of anything else that I would need or want to add to it. I'm 63 now and we may or may not find that we like cruising in the Slingshot more than on the bike. I honestly don't think so but only time will tell.

 

Like as been recommended, you should rent one first and get a feel for it. I would also try to test ride the Road Glide if I were you. I think that you have written that you also tall. You may, as I did, find the Road Glide to be a better fit. I'm almost sure that if I were to buy another Harley tomorrow, it would be another Road Glide.

 

As for the Indian, I've seen some that really look great but personally, I'm just not a fan. I know those huge sculpted fenders are an iconic Indian feature but I simply don't like the look. I've also spent a little time on the Indian forums and have read many reports that the heat is actually worse than on the Harley. I have also read way too many reports about quality issues and, at least for a while, rider's had their bikes in the shop for extended periods of time while the dealer was waiting on parts. That issue may have been initial production issues and completely resolved by now.

[YamahaParExcellence]

I came from a 56 Pan full blown Chopper. Made the Old Man's on Orange County look sick. Do I miss it??? H*LL YES!! Would I go back?? H*LL NO!! It is part how much easier the Yamaha's are on the pocketbook and a lot that they don't require 1/2 the wrenching those old Thumpers did!! And I don't need to attract the girls now!!! If funds were available I would have one in the garage for Sundays!! But my Yamaha would roll the rest of the week!! But as said Harley has came a long ways.......so???

 

Thank you, before I'd do anything beyond hoping for my SVTC landing, I'd sure haunt the HD dedicated forums, and then haunt YouTube, etc...for other's yays n' nays about reliability, (in total, median ownership) the Mil 8, etc. I did that for the SVTC, and that (because we did not demo ride, nor even see one in the flesh) as well. That's pretty much my buying M.O. if I can not touch, sit upon, or pester a bike.

 

I can understand the H*LL YES part of your reply. I had a 1973 Kawasaki first year, Z1, that is my all-time favorite bike. All time. That is in fact, why I bought the 2004 Kawasaki ZR-7S. It is my literal time-machine and visual connection to that very bike! Every time, (to this very day) that I slip my leg over the saddle, I am once more back in 1973...and it feels it. A great 70's era retro bike, but with modern features (here and there, lol). The Z1 never had some of 'em....

 

Not every Harley was rock steady reliable, Not every Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, nor BMW for that matter either. I am certainly not, nor have I ever been a Harley thumb's down rider, just because to date, I have always chosen metric. They are a beautiful bike, in any model, but my only complaint, is from some of its tribe...in the first thing they do, is to pull out the factory baffles. Some,...not all. If I did get one, I'd tell you truthfully right now, I'd never do that...my wife would never stand for that...and the injector maps are tuned with the factory baffles, and back-pressure, in place. If I am on tour, I want to hear, what the STVC puts out in decibels at factory...you hear it..it sound's commanding, but lets you hear other natural sounds around the bike. That would be our Harley, for sure. Do I like the look (have never sat upon one, to date...and I just might this week, lol) of the Ultra Classic? I sure do. Is there better bang-for-the-buck in features on the SVTC. There sure is. This would only be a back-up plan, should I (for whatever reason/excuse) not get my SVTC in the month of May. After May 31st FOR WHATEVER REASON, I'll be ending the deal and calling for a refund cheque. Yamaha Canada, has until May 31st, to dock, ship overland...and have me watching them lifting off the cardboard. On June 1st. It's another game plan. I have never waited in my 50 years of biking for an ordered motorcycle to show up at the dealership, waiting upon the manufacturer to deliver going on 7 months!. Never.... This will be a first and last experience, for this. Ever! A V.P. of Sales and Warehousing, calling me, no matter. Until I ride it home...with Puc's Celebration playing from the USB source...it's only a 'vapor' bike.... Looks good on YouTube, looks good from the pictures via Chief...but still...only pictures still for this guy. I ordered this bike last October. It is now April 24th!!!! REALLY NOW?!?!?

 

Joseph, stuck in Egypt...wanting to ride home, and visit the folks....(smile!)

Edited April 25, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence

[YamahaParExcellence]

Like many here, I have owned a lot of different bikes over the past 48 or so years. I have had a few that I liked better than others but none that I absolutely hated. They all have their own character.

 

I owned an '88 Venture Royale and just couldn't adapt to the seating position. Most of that is because I am 6'2 and have long legs. I used to buy Levis with a 36" inseam but I guess my inseam is actually around 35". I just couldn't get comfortable on the first gen Venture. Then I bought a 1986 Harley FXRD. It was actually a great bike and I had no problems with it at all but the FXRD was a single year production model and aftermarket accessories, exhaust, etc. were almost impossible to find. When the RSV came out in 1999, I loved it and took delivery of mine in April of 1999.

 

I will have to say that the '99 RSV topped the list, by far, of my favorite bike of all time. I rode it until 2013 when I got the itch for something different. I bought a brand new 2013 Harley Road Glide Ultra. Now it was somewhat of a spur of the moment decision. Not that I hadn't been thinking about it for a while but I woke up on a Saturday morning and just mentioned to my wife that I was really thinking about it again. She said, well, you've been wanting to do it for a while so get on the phone and see if you can find what you want. I actually planned to buy an Ultra Classic and called a few dealers. I found one in Medina, OH, about 30 minutes from my house, that had the Ultra Classic that I wanted. They closed at 5:00 on Saturday so we hopped in the car and drove over. We got there around 3:30. They actually had 5 or 6 Ultra Classics on the floor but right by the door, they had a brand new Road Glide Ultra and my wife spotted it. She liked it better than the Ultra. Once I sat on both bikes, I knew that the Road Glide was the choice for me. Though technically, they are exactly the same from the faring back, the Road Glide just felt much roomier to me. I felt really close and a bit scrunched on the Ultra but not on the Road Glide. So we did our negotiations and finalized the deal around 4:30. I asked the salesman what day they could have it ready and he told me that he had already had it taken to the back and it would be ready to go in about 30 minutes. So, I rode it home that day.

 

Now, it happened that we had a lot of family illness issues start about that time so we didn't get to ride near as much as we expected to. I will say though that it came very close to being my favorite over the RSV. It depends on what you want out of a bike but I can tell you, it had plenty of power but more importantly, the power band actually suited the style of riding that I've settled over the past few years. My "speed demon" days are over for the most part and I loved the low rpm torque that the VTwins are so good at. The seating position was every bit as comfortable as my RSV and my wife thought that the passenger seat was better than the Yamaha. Though we didn't ride as much as we hoped to, we did get in a couple of decent trips. I also managed to complete two iron butt rides on it, one was the 1,000 miles in 24 hours and the other was 1500 miles in 36 hours or something like that. The 1,000 miler I actually did 1140 going and then the same coming back and completed he 2280 in just over 30 hours. Rode it non-stop there, slept about 4 hours, rode non-stop back home. I can honestly say that I was very comfortable for that entire ride.

 

I only kept the Harley for about 2 years. Life got in the way and it ended up sitting in the garage most of the time. I think I put a total of around 19,000 miles on it and most of that was the first year. So, I decided to sell it. As for reliability, I can only say that for the two years and close to 20,000 miles that I owned it, it never went back to the shop for any reason other than the first service which was part of my deal. After that, I serviced it myself.

 

Now if I had to place any fault on the bike, it was certainly the heat. I was just brutal on a hot day, especially if you got caught in traffic. We were coming home from the VentureRider rally in Illinois shortly after buying it and we hit Chicago at the wrong time. In that traffic, it was actually painful. I felt that my thighs were almost blistering. My wife didn't complain much but it was her feet that got roasted. Then we also took a little trip to Hilton Head, S.C. and though most of the trip was pleasant enough, when we were pulling into our hotel at Hilton Head it was 101 degrees and about 90% humidity. No doubt it would have been hot on the Venture also but I felt like I was sitting on a big heater on that Harley. If I could point at any fault of the Harley for deciding to sell it, it would certainly have been the heat. I did take several recommended steps to reduce the heat and it may have helped some but didn't ride it enough to really find out. Removed the catalytic convertor, free flowing exhaust and air filters, Tuner and richened up the fuel mixture, etc. To be honest though, it was more of a financial decision. I just couldn't see having that much money tied up in something that was now just sitting in the garage.

 

So, after two years, I sold the Road Glide and then bought another RSV which I still have. There were things that I liked better about the Harley, primarily the low rpm torque but also the lower center of gravity, availability of aftermarket accessories, and yes, we even like the fact that there were so many shirts, jackets, etc. on the market. I wish that Yamaha would offer more branded merchandise as well.

 

I would have no problem owning another Harley. I doubt I ever will but one never knows for sure. The fact is, we still aren't riding like we once did and my '05 RSV will likely last me my lifetime. It is completely setup the way I like it and I really don't know of anything else that I would need or want to add to it. I'm 63 now and we may or may not find that we like cruising in the Slingshot more than on the bike. I honestly don't think so but only time will tell.

 

Like as been recommended, you should rent one first and get a feel for it. I would also try to test ride the Road Glide if I were you. I think that you have written that you also tall. You may, as I did, find the Road Glide to be a better fit. I'm almost sure that if I were to buy another Harley tomorrow, it would be another Road Glide.

 

As for the Indian, I've seen some that really look great but personally, I'm just not a fan. I know those huge sculpted fenders are an iconic Indian feature but I simply don't like the look. I've also spent a little time on the Indian forums and have read many reports that the heat is actually worse than on the Harley. I have also read way too many reports about quality issues and, at least for a while, rider's had their bikes in the shop for extended periods of time while the dealer was waiting on parts. That issue may have been initial production issues and completely resolved by now.

 

Thank you, Freebird. Thank you to **everybody** that took the time to date, to offer me their unique take on the subject. Thank you, once more. Very insightful and helpful, all.

Post Edit: Freebird, I'm re-reading your post...to absorb its info better. So you had the Road Glide (I'm 6'3" with a 32" inseam)...again, going back to reading. Thanks...

 

Post Edit 2: Freebird, I'm going to go tomorrow, supposed to rain all day around Toronto...and am going to visit in person, a HD dealership. I will sit upon a 2018 Road Glide Ultra, and start 'feeler' discussion on what best out-the-door would be. I won't waste the rep's time..but enough to know the lay of the land. Your account around Chicago wow...so I will be most diligent about being aware of traffic patterns, maintenance, and accidents on the planned route. I will absolutely be having a C.B. radio once more. This on a Grand Tour...is vital. Loved it on our 2000 GL1500, missed it, every ride on our GL1800 (wasn't going to pay the blood money to Honda, for what should have been S.E. on the bike...) Thanks for your time to post, that detailed ownership history. As you say, and you are younger than me, right now....you never know what dealership threshold you might pass through....on any given day. The only thing that would stop me from riding...no matter what age I hopefully obtain...would be to no longer, be able to keep it balanced and upright, under full husband/wife/kitchen sink scenarios. THAT was one of many reasons that we gravitated to the SVTC, by its very nature of engine design...and what Yamaha's reasons were, to go air/oil cooled and dry sump...for that narrow carriage width, very low center of gravity...and when finally sitting on one last week...was amazed (and I posted that..) that it felt no more leaning it on the showroom floor from left bank, to right bank..than my 560 pound ZR7S. That was simply...amazing to discover!

 

I want the SVTC...but now thanks to everybody today...I have Plan B back of the ears.... -------> Harley Davidson Road Glide Ultra in the solid blue, or the two-tone red ,(loaded to the nine's...) or...losing out one season...the SVTC '19. (this most likely won't happen...Mama is making noises...about the 2008, gone, and no bike to date, replacing it. This, could get ugly....

 

Cheers!,

 

Joe

Edited April 25, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence

[YamahaParExcellence]

YPE,

 

I can't give you a personal experience of owning a Harley. There are others here who can, and I'm sure will. Freebird, the owner of our wonderful site here might possibly chime in pretty soon about his experience/opinion of the Road Glide Ultra that he owned a few years back. I have test ridden several Ultra's over the past couple years at bike rally's and such, and I gotta tell ya, I was really impressed with the ride and drive of them, with the exception of 2 things: The classic Harley vibration at idle would eventually drive me nuts, and the the bike just seems too scrunched up for my 6'6" frame. It's a shorter distance between the saddle and the handlebars than my RSTD, and absolutely more scruched up than that big beautiful SVTC you're waiting on (I've test ridden it). But, everytime I ride one, I come away with an understanding of why so many people ride Harley. Are today's Harleys the quality of Yamaha, Honda, BMW, etc? I have a tendency to believe they aren't, but I can't stake the deed of my house on it. It appears Harley has made crazy great strides in their quality in the past 10 years or so.

 

I do have a family story to throw at ya though:

I have a cousin and her husband who were die hard Goldwing riders for years. I mean like GW nuts. They went through 4-5 Goldwings over the years, and have ridden every state in the country except for Alaska. They made it a point to go to the Wing Dings rally every year. Had all of the Goldwing branded riding gear. I mean true GW ambassadors.

Well, a few years ago, right after Harley introduced their new water cooled Ultra bikes, they were returning from a two week ride out west, and stopped at a Harley dealer in Colorado, just for the heck of it. I do that sometimes, even though I'm not a Harley rider. Well, outa the blue, I got a texted photo of them standing beside this brand new Electra Glide Ultra with the message, "We got a new bike"!. I quickly responded with, "yeah, right". BUt, they confirmed it was true, and that they were about to leave the dealership to ride it home to Arkansas. Myself, and all the other family members who ride bikes about fell out!!! None of us ride Harley's in this family, and these two would've been the LAST of any of us who could've been pegged as possible future Harley riders.

Well, since that time, I'm pleased to report that they have absolutely LOVED their Harley. Actually, a year later, they traded it in on a water cooled Road Glide Ultra because they wanted the fixed fairing. They have ridden the hair off of that thing the past couple years, and have turned into true Harley fans. Every time i talk to them, I make it a point to ask them how they're feeling about the Harley ownership. No regrets from them. The biggest difference they are enjoying is the dealership experiences as they travel across the country.

 

You're gonna love your SVTC when it gets to ya. And, the thing that is gonna be so cool for you is; it is going to be a unique ride that nobody else around you will have. You can't say that about a Harley. When you buy a Harley (or even a GW), you're just part of this sea of sameness that a ton of other folks are part of. Bores the heck out of me! But, your SVTC, now that's gonna be a conversation piece whenever you ride up to motorcycle joints.

 

Big Lenny

 

Lenny...If I wasn't sitting down reading this post..I would have keeled over..."You are KIDDING, me!?!?!?I would NEVER in a million years...in all my 50 years to date in this sport, ever have expected to read your family--cousin-- feedback. Never! Gold Wing riders, are for the most part (my 50 years with them...) as tribal as Harley riders. Don't think so? Buy one...and attend the GWRRA Wing Dings...and then come back to me...lol.

 

I am quite happy now...honestly, to read of another couple that had multiple Gold Wing model years (such as I and my wife) and then you BLOW ME AWAY...away...that they went for fun...and let's face it...let's call it for what it really is...that of kicking tires (for a Gold Wing couple...) (and we have done the same...) is to CONFIRM, that you always 'had' the right ride below you...and walking out of a dedicated 'other' competitor, a V-twin, vs, your flat six...competitor...ONLY SHOWED YOU (the Honda Gold Wing owner...), that you always had the right idea, from the get go. All Honda Gold Wing riders do that...(the truthful ones, anyway...) We certainly did...kicking tires...oh yes...oh yes...and then riding away smirking that we...had the 'superior' ride taking us out of the whatever dealership. Snobbish? Yes...but truthful. Gold Wing riders, are very tribal, and click'ish. Are Yamaha riders? I don't know yet, lol! No experience yet, lol!

 

Again, I would never have ever expected to read this...so am very, very (if I can even be more in anticipation and type about it...) excited to HOPE to get my SVTC. If it was a total (out of the blue, walk in...yeah, yeah...and then your cousins ride out with a Harley V-Twin mount) (still can't believe I'm reading this, and would love to see them standing beside their bike at the time, if they don't mind you passing it on!!!! ) Do you still have that picture? That would be so much fun and encouragement to also view it. You could mask their faces, if that would make them feel better about having their mugs on the Internet.

 

Thanks for posting this. I am in moments, going to call my wife up from the rec room, to read your post in its entirety. I want to see HER reaction...as we debrief it...lol. This is gonna be something to witness, LOL! She was a total Honda Gold, tribal member! She liked our 2008 Wing, but wished it afforded her more creature comfort, such as the SVTC has been designed to do, as well as the very V-Twin character of the bike.

 

So, let me end this reply..and call her up...LOL (rubbing hands...) need to make some popcorn first...and then munch as I stand behind her...while she reads, about your now, Harley riding...Harley loving, past multi-ownership Honda Gold Wing cousins! I'm going to pass on adding extra butter...really trying to keep the weight down that hopefully that vapor-bike SVTC doesn't have to lug, when running my carcass around...

 

Cheers! "Never woulda thoughta...".

 

Joe

Edited April 25, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence

[YamahaParExcellence]

I’ve got almost 5k miles in my SVTC and some of it in 80 degree weather and I haven’t noticed a heat issue. My 91 MK2 Venture Royale was water cooled but the fan just blew it up around me, so the heat IMHO is really no different.

 

Very encouraging, Chief. Whatever heat it does put out...(it doesn't get much more, even on humid days around the Great Lakes, to be beyond the high 80's F. actual), we probably would both agree we are enjoying, quite frankly. My wife suffers some arthritis in her left ankle..so in fact, our SVTC or Harley? LOL...might end up as being ride-therapeutic, for her. Actually ,so.

[YamahaParExcellence]

Like many here, I have owned a lot of different bikes over the past 48 or so years. I have had a few that I liked better than others but none that I absolutely hated. They all have their own character.

 

I owned an '88 Venture Royale and just couldn't adapt to the seating position. Most of that is because I am 6'2 and have long legs. I used to buy Levis with a 36" inseam but I guess my inseam is actually around 35". I just couldn't get comfortable on the first gen Venture. Then I bought a 1986 Harley FXRD. It was actually a great bike and I had no problems with it at all but the FXRD was a single year production model and aftermarket accessories, exhaust, etc. were almost impossible to find. When the RSV came out in 1999, I loved it and took delivery of mine in April of 1999.

 

I will have to say that the '99 RSV topped the list, by far, of my favorite bike of all time. I rode it until 2013 when I got the itch for something different. I bought a brand new 2013 Harley Road Glide Ultra. Now it was somewhat of a spur of the moment decision. Not that I hadn't been thinking about it for a while but I woke up on a Saturday morning and just mentioned to my wife that I was really thinking about it again. She said, well, you've been wanting to do it for a while so get on the phone and see if you can find what you want. I actually planned to buy an Ultra Classic and called a few dealers. I found one in Medina, OH, about 30 minutes from my house, that had the Ultra Classic that I wanted. They closed at 5:00 on Saturday so we hopped in the car and drove over. We got there around 3:30. They actually had 5 or 6 Ultra Classics on the floor but right by the door, they had a brand new Road Glide Ultra and my wife spotted it. She liked it better than the Ultra. Once I sat on both bikes, I knew that the Road Glide was the choice for me. Though technically, they are exactly the same from the faring back, the Road Glide just felt much roomier to me. I felt really close and a bit scrunched on the Ultra but not on the Road Glide. So we did our negotiations and finalized the deal around 4:30. I asked the salesman what day they could have it ready and he told me that he had already had it taken to the back and it would be ready to go in about 30 minutes. So, I rode it home that day.

 

Now, it happened that we had a lot of family illness issues start about that time so we didn't get to ride near as much as we expected to. I will say though that it came very close to being my favorite over the RSV. It depends on what you want out of a bike but I can tell you, it had plenty of power but more importantly, the power band actually suited the style of riding that I've settled over the past few years. My "speed demon" days are over for the most part and I loved the low rpm torque that the VTwins are so good at. The seating position was every bit as comfortable as my RSV and my wife thought that the passenger seat was better than the Yamaha. Though we didn't ride as much as we hoped to, we did get in a couple of decent trips. I also managed to complete two iron butt rides on it, one was the 1,000 miles in 24 hours and the other was 1500 miles in 36 hours or something like that. The 1,000 miler I actually did 1140 going and then the same coming back and completed he 2280 in just over 30 hours. Rode it non-stop there, slept about 4 hours, rode non-stop back home. I can honestly say that I was very comfortable for that entire ride.

 

I only kept the Harley for about 2 years. Life got in the way and it ended up sitting in the garage most of the time. I think I put a total of around 19,000 miles on it and most of that was the first year. So, I decided to sell it. As for reliability, I can only say that for the two years and close to 20,000 miles that I owned it, it never went back to the shop for any reason other than the first service which was part of my deal. After that, I serviced it myself.

 

Now if I had to place any fault on the bike, it was certainly the heat. I was just brutal on a hot day, especially if you got caught in traffic. We were coming home from the VentureRider rally in Illinois shortly after buying it and we hit Chicago at the wrong time. In that traffic, it was actually painful. I felt that my thighs were almost blistering. My wife didn't complain much but it was her feet that got roasted. Then we also took a little trip to Hilton Head, S.C. and though most of the trip was pleasant enough, when we were pulling into our hotel at Hilton Head it was 101 degrees and about 90% humidity. No doubt it would have been hot on the Venture also but I felt like I was sitting on a big heater on that Harley. If I could point at any fault of the Harley for deciding to sell it, it would certainly have been the heat. I did take several recommended steps to reduce the heat and it may have helped some but didn't ride it enough to really find out. Removed the catalytic convertor, free flowing exhaust and air filters, Tuner and richened up the fuel mixture, etc. To be honest though, it was more of a financial decision. I just couldn't see having that much money tied up in something that was now just sitting in the garage.

 

So, after two years, I sold the Road Glide and then bought another RSV which I still have. There were things that I liked better about the Harley, primarily the low rpm torque but also the lower center of gravity, availability of aftermarket accessories, and yes, we even like the fact that there were so many shirts, jackets, etc. on the market. I wish that Yamaha would offer more branded merchandise as well.

 

I would have no problem owning another Harley. I doubt I ever will but one never knows for sure. The fact is, we still aren't riding like we once did and my '05 RSV will likely last me my lifetime. It is completely setup the way I like it and I really don't know of anything else that I would need or want to add to it. I'm 63 now and we may or may not find that we like cruising in the Slingshot more than on the bike. I honestly don't think so but only time will tell.

 

Like as been recommended, you should rent one first and get a feel for it. I would also try to test ride the Road Glide if I were you. I think that you have written that you also tall. You may, as I did, find the Road Glide to be a better fit. I'm almost sure that if I were to buy another Harley tomorrow, it would be another Road Glide.

 

As for the Indian, I've seen some that really look great but personally, I'm just not a fan. I know those huge sculpted fenders are an iconic Indian feature but I simply don't like the look. I've also spent a little time on the Indian forums and have read many reports that the heat is actually worse than on the Harley. I have also read way too many reports about quality issues and, at least for a while, rider's had their bikes in the shop for extended periods of time while the dealer was waiting on parts. That issue may have been initial production issues and completely resolved by now.

 

Freebird, I re-read your post about three times, and will look out for the 2018 Road Glide Ultra, if I don't get the SVTC (only due to Yamaha, or dealer failure). I am just plain bored to death, with a multi-flat six or multi anything (BMW, etc) ..and want that V-Twin--->torque, at low RPM. I want as low an RPM that you can go, for any given 60-75 MPH speed setting on cruise. Want that rider/seat-of-the-pants interaction. Really looking forward to owning a V-Twin from either manufacturer now. I have made my decision, by reading the great feed-back so far upon this thread, from guys, that also have no problem running either non-metric, or metric rides. That...was important to my decision logic. The one thing that stands firm...is that I want to experience the fun, and a totally new, experience and ownership, of a large bore V-Twin motorcycle. This is the time to do it...before I hit into my 70's...and a decade of Retirement, fixed income ensues....yep. Yep....

 

Joe

Edited April 25, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence

[YamahaParExcellence]

Dang, Freebird...this IS a nice looking bike...the Canadian HD site, and this red is about $80.00 more than the MSRP for the SVTC! This might be Plan B.

 

https://www.harley-davidson.com/ca/en/motorcycles/2018/touring/road-glide-ultra.html

 

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence

[ChiefGunner]

Freebird, I re-read your post about three times, and will look out for the Road Glide, if I don't get the SVTC (only due to Yamaha, or dealer failure). I am just plain bored to death, with a multi-flat six or multi anything (BMW, etc) ..and want that V-Twin--->torque, at low RPM. I want as low an RPM that you can go, for any given 60-75 MPH speed setting on cruise. Want that rider/seat-of-the-pants interaction. Really looking forward to owning a V-Twin from either manufacturer now. I have made my decision, by reading the great feed-back so far upon this thread, from guys, that also have no problem running either non-metric, or metric rides. That...was important to my decision logic. The one thing that stands firm...is that I want to experience the fun, and a totally new, experience and ownership, of a large bore V-Twin motorcycle. This is the time to do it...before I hit into my 70's...and a decade of Retirement, fixed income ensues....yep. Yep....

 

Joe

 

Just an FYI, When I'm doing 80mph on the SVTC I'm only turning 2750rpm on the tach!!

[Venturous Randy]

This was on MSN today.

Randy

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/topstocks/harley-hints-at-sharper-turnaround-plan-to-spur-bike-demand/ar-AAwhhMs?ocid=spartandhp

[YamahaParExcellence]

Just an FYI, When I'm doing 80mph on the SVTC I'm only turning 2750rpm on the tach!!

 

Still Plan A, Chief...yep...but I do now have a Plan B. The above... Mama wants to ride....and I'm not waiting until next year.

 

Right off, I will save $1,000.00 CDN because this bike comes with the heel/toe shifter and the top rack as standard.

 

I'm keeping my eye on it...and I placed a phone call to an HD dealer this afternoon (for B.S. walks, but picking up the phone...talks! LOL), and believe me...they are very motivated to make a deal...ESPECIALLY a cross-over rider from a multi-owned, Gold Wing owner. They'd love to be able to truthfully tell that story around the HD dealership, and the Toronto area!

 

Just making viable options...but my vapor-bike SVTC is still at the top of the heap.... ...until May31st, that is....

Edited April 25, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence