bypassing clutch switch 86

[Flyinfool]

Did you ever run the test 3 from back in post #17 ? I know it does not make sense to you, but all 3 of those tests need to be done in order because it makes sense to me and will give me needed info to help you proceed. Without this info all we can do is keep taking wild guesses as to possible problems. These tests will eliminate possibilities to narrow down the list of possible issues. This is how trouble shooting must be done, test and eliminate things one by one until your tests find the actual problem. Then you only have to take abort what is necessary and only have to buy necessary parts. I have never been one to throw money and/or major disassembly labor at a problem and hope for it to go away. I always start the the easy and/or the cheap tests.

 

From what I can gather from all of your jumping so far (If I understood what you were saying) is that you may have more than 1 issue going on. We need to isolate and test things one by one to find the problem(s). Without isolating things to test, one problem could affect the results of another test for a different problem and lead to an incorrect conclusion.

[cruiserlover]

Did you ever run the test 3 from back in post #17 ? I know it does not make sense to you, but all 3 of those tests need to be done in order because it makes sense to me and will give me needed info to help you proceed. Without this info all we can do is keep taking wild guesses as to possible problems. These tests will eliminate possibilities to narrow down the list of possible issues. This is how trouble shooting must be done, test and eliminate things one by one until your tests find the actual problem. Then you only have to take abort what is necessary and only have to buy necessary parts. I have never been one to throw money and/or major disassembly labor at a problem and hope for it to go away. I always start the the easy and/or the cheap tests.

 

From what I can gather from all of your jumping so far (If I understood what you were saying) is that you may have more than 1 issue going on. We need to isolate and test things one by one to find the problem(s). Without isolating things to test, one problem could affect the results of another test for a different problem and lead to an incorrect conclusion.

 

there is only one wire or perhaps call it cable on the starter.a stud sticks out, a nut goes over it holding that cable to the starter.That cable runs up and secures to the large terminal of the solenoid..I even made a jumper cable from the negative post of the battery and connected it to the large negative post of the solenoid.I tried putting a jumper from the positive side of the battery to the large nut down on the starter.I had a jumper from the negative side of the battery to the negative side of the solenoid.The negative side of the battery has the cable, about 4 gauge connected to a solid mount under a bolt metal to metal on the motorcycle frame. But, that cable does not also have a second cable going to either the nut on the starter or the negative larger terminal on the solenoid.I figured I made that circuit complete by jumping from the ground post of the battery to the ground post of the solenoid.the one with the 10mm nut holding the cable on.For the umpteenth time i took the solenoid out and swapped it with the old 83.Both make the parts bike turn over.Either some wire is loose or the starter is nonfunctional.I thought beyond the click when I pushed the start button it would attempt to turn the starter.its a big deal to remove a starter but thats my next step i suppose.If that is the answer then i will buy a good 4 brush to replace it.This motorcycle has 84,000 miles but it looks like it was cared for.If its the original starter maybe its no good.The parts bike has 34,000 miles.I appreciate your help.I will go with a jumper to the only wire/cable I see on the starter.I will take a jumper from the ground/negative post of the battery and connect it to the body of the starter.I know you guys are getting tired of all this.

Edited April 27, 2018 by cruiserlover

[Flyinfool]

Please STOP the random connecting of wires to the solenoid, if you connected from battery negative to either big post on the solenoid that is a dead short across the battery and is a BAD thing to do. THERE IS NO NEGATIVE BIG POST ON THE SOLENOID. You are going to blow stuff up.

 

Yes there is only one wire connected to the starter, that is the positive wire, that is why I have you connecting a starter cable direct from the battery positive to the power stud on the starter motor. if this makes the starter crank the engine then we know that the problem is in the wire between the battery and the starter, or the solenoid. We also then know that the starter motor is good.

 

the second test is leaving the jumper cable connected from positive battery to the stud on the starter motor and adding a jumper cable from the battery negative to the housing of the starter motor, if this causes the starter to spin then again we know that the starter motor is good and that the problem is in the ground side of the bikes wiring. Once you have both of these jumpers connected in place if the starter has not engaged then you know that it is a bad starter motor.

 

I do understand how the bike is wired and that this test seems silly, but it does work and only takes 10 minutes to do and costs nothing. But it does drastically reduce the number of places to look for the problem.

[cruiserlover]

Please STOP the random connecting of wires to the solenoid, if you connected from battery negative to either big post on the solenoid that is a dead short across the battery and is a BAD thing to do. THERE IS NO NEGATIVE BIG POST ON THE SOLENOID. You are going to blow stuff up.

 

Yes there is only one wire connected to the starter, that is the positive wire, that is why I have you connecting a starter cable direct from the battery positive to the power stud on the starter motor. if this makes the starter crank the engine then we know that the problem is in the wire between the battery and the starter, or the solenoid. We also then know that the starter motor is good.

 

the second test is leaving the jumper cable connected from positive battery to the stud on the starter motor and adding a jumper cable from the battery negative to the housing of the starter motor, if this causes the starter to spin then again we know that the starter motor is good and that the problem is in the ground side of the bikes wiring. Once you have both of these jumpers connected in place if the starter has not engaged then you know that it is a bad starter motor.

 

I do understand how the bike is wired and that this test seems silly, but it does work and only takes 10 minutes to do and costs nothing. But it does drastically reduce the number of places to look for the problem.

 

you are the best brother.I have tried everything else, might as well try the right thing now.2 of the solenoids i thought were bad are not.Thank goodness for the old 83 over in the corner.

[cruiserlover]

this test sounds like a bench test.as in I had a starter off the bike,I connected a battery from batt positive to the stud on the starter.and from batt negative to somewhere on the starter body.probably just touching the battery with the second lead would make the starter spin if its a good one. So.I reconnected the battery.key on, lights work, dash works,neutral light on,horn honks.I took my makeshift jumper and connected one end to the pos battery post, the other to the stud on the starter.I have the solenoid connected also, which probably isnt necessary because this test eliminates a need for a solenoid if I understand the principle of this test.I then took a car battery cable,connected one end to the negative post of the battery.Then attempted connecting it to the starter body.sparks flew everywhere.As I continued trying to hold the second cable to the starter body the one connected to the starter stud started smoking, and it got so hot it melted the multistrand wire going into the alligator clip almost in half.On a car I have seen this make a battery cable molten till the cable is quickly removed.In those cases it was a starter not spinning. I think my starter is no good.

[Flyinfool]

What gauge of wire did you use for the jumper you made up with alligator clips?

 

Both the positive and negative connections should be with a set of jumper cables like you would use to jump start a car. Smaller wire will get hot and melt and not spin the starter.

 

Yes this is basically a bench test but without the work of removing the starter.

[cruiserlover]

What gauge of wire did you use for the jumper you made up with alligator clips?

 

Both the positive and negative connections should be with a set of jumper cables like you would use to jump start a car. Smaller wire will get hot and melt and not spin the starter.

 

Yes this is basically a bench test but without the work of removing the starter.

 

not sure.they arent as big around as a car jumper cable but much bigger than anything on a motorcycle.They are smaller than the 4 gauge battery cables recommended for bike upgrades.probably about 1/4 inch diameter.On the ground/negative side I did use an actual car jumper cable.I wasnt sure if the wire should be connected to the solenoid while I tried this.Those connections were connected up on the solenoid large terminals.I can try again tomorrow with car cables on both sides.Going to work all night in 15 minutes.

[Flyinfool]

Car jumper cables is what I was trying to get across this whole time. Using to small of a wire will cause the wire to get very hot, and at the same time not pass enough current to spin the starter motor. Yes I would expect to see sparks when you press the negative jumper to the starter housing. When you are ready for that. don't be gentle, just smack that neg onto to motor, and don't let it slide around, that will minimize the sparks. If the starter is going to spin it should start spinning almost instantly. If you have the connection made for a whole second and it is not spinning, get the jumper off, it aint gonna spin. Don't wait for the magic blue smoke to come out.

[cruiserlover]

Car jumper cables is what I was trying to get across this whole time. Using to small of a wire will cause the wire to get very hot, and at the same time not pass enough current to spin the starter motor. Yes I would expect to see sparks when you press the negative jumper to the starter housing. When you are ready for that. don't be gentle, just smack that neg onto to motor, and don't let it slide around, that will minimize the sparks. If the starter is going to spin it should start spinning almost instantly. If you have the connection made for a whole second and it is not spinning, get the jumper off, it aint gonna spin. Don't wait for the magic blue smoke to come out.

 

I am going to try it later.Thanks so much

[cruiserlover]

I am going to try it later.Thanks so much

I used big car jumpers, did as you said,the starter did nothing.I aso didnt get a bunch of sparks when i connected the cables which i thought was odd.I had the cable from batt pos to hot wire on the starter. The other cable from batt ground to clamped on the side of starter body.Again few sparks.But no activity from the starter at all.I turned the key on, hit the start button just for grins.nothing.All the lights,horn, everything works.This is my 7th venture counting the 2 nonrunning 83s I have now. I have owned 5 goldwings,no 1800 variety.one valkyrie,one harley ulta classic.The ventures are topheavy but their frame is stiff,handling is superior to any goldwing i owned.It was a purpose built bike from the beginning.tour bike.The GW started out as a hotrod then they started hanging things off it for touring.The first 88 1500 was the first purpose design and honda made as a tourer only. The first gen is way more comfortable than the 99 or 01 I owned.But now they are just too heavy for me.I really want to get this 86 going.It could make someone a very nice bike.I am tired of dealing with it for awhile.

[videoarizona]

I used big car jumpers, did as you said,the starter did nothing.I aso didnt get a bunch of sparks when i connected the cables which i thought was odd.I had the cable from batt pos to hot wire on the starter. The other cable from batt ground to clamped on the side of starter body.Again few sparks.But no activity from the starter at all.I turned the key on, hit the start button just for grins.nothing.All the lights,horn, everything works.This is my 7th venture counting the 2 nonrunning 83s I have now. I have owned 5 goldwings,no 1800 variety.one valkyrie,one harley ulta classic.The ventures are topheavy but their frame is stiff,handling is superior to any goldwing i owned.It was a purpose built bike from the beginning.tour bike.The GW started out as a hotrod then they started hanging things off it for touring.The first 88 1500 was the first purpose design and honda made as a tourer only. The first gen is way more comfortable than the 99 or 01 I owned.But now they are just too heavy for me.I really want to get this 86 going.It could make someone a very nice bike.I am tired of dealing with it for awhile.

 

 

Take the starter out and take it apart. It's easy. Check the brushes and clean up the "shiny part". Clean the grooves on the shiny part. I bet you can get this puppy working again for no cash. Except maybe a pair of brushes.

 

I bet there is even a video on you tube on how to clean up a starter.... Principle is probably the same on all of them...

[cruiserlover]

Take the starter out and take it apart. It's easy. Check the brushes and clean up the "shiny part". Clean the grooves on the shiny part. I bet you can get this puppy working again for no cash. Except maybe a pair of brushes.

 

I bet there is even a video on you tube on how to clean up a starter.... Principle is probably the same on all of them...

probably so.I now have owned 4 83s,a 99,01,01rstd,and this 86.Until I broke the fairing when it fell over in the trailer it looked really good. A few weeks ago I woke it up from a 4 year nap and it sounded good.You are talking about the cummutator? the shiny part I assume.I will do that eventually.I am working the next few days.This bike will be too heavy for me when i get it on the road unfortunately.My right hip flexor hurts after only 25 miles.Only venture lovers will appreciate it when its going again.the brushes contact points, are they soldered in place.I never took one apart before.For sure I will bench test it before I mount it.

[Flyinfool]

You can either rebuild this starter for real cheap, or just swap one from one of your parts bikes. Either way I would add the internal ground mod that Dingy wrote up, It is super cheap and easy to do and it does help. Also gives you a good excuse to open up the starter and clean it out before you put it in.

[videoarizona]

probably so.I now have owned 4 83s,a 99,01,01rstd,and this 86.Until I broke the fairing when it fell over in the trailer it looked really good. A few weeks ago I woke it up from a 4 year nap and it sounded good.You are talking about the cummutator? the shiny part I assume.I will do that eventually.I am working the next few days.This bike will be too heavy for me when i get it on the road unfortunately.My right hip flexor hurts after only 25 miles.Only venture lovers will appreciate it when its going again.the brushes contact points, are they soldered in place.I never took one apart before.For sure I will bench test it before I mount it.

 

 

I didn't realize you had such experience on scoots! Yes the commutator. Does need cleaning and that and brushes are a cheap fix. Can't answer about how the brushes are connected. I haven't had a starter issue yet. My experience comes from early bikes and British sports cars. Rebuilding generators and starters was a normal experience there.

Hope I didn't offend you...

If so, I apologise.

david

[cruiserlover]

I didn't realize you had such experience on scoots! Yes the commutator. Does need cleaning and that and brushes are a cheap fix. Can't answer about how the brushes are connected. I haven't had a starter issue yet. My experience comes from early bikes and British sports cars. Rebuilding generators and starters was a normal experience there.

Hope I didn't offend you...

If so, I apologise.

david

Offend me? Good grief.Why on earth would i be offended.I post problems and questions, you and others answer.I appreciate it.The starter i am afraid if i took it apart it would never get it together.Some used ones are cheap, but they have no guarantee.Shipping gets expensive too.The dealer here is worthless.For a bike that old i expect it.But like I needed some cable to make a new cable.They always ask what bike is it for? I said anybike, I just need some cable.I went to the service department.He said they have cable, charge him so much a foot.You really have to have a good place to order from and do your own repairs.The only thing i dont like about the venture is the tci.

[Prairiehammer]

Some used ones are cheap, but they have no guarantee.Shipping gets expensive too.The dealer here is worthless.For a bike that old i expect it.

 

If you don't want the uncertainty of a used starter, you can still buy a brand new Yamaha starter from the worthless dealer. And it is only $494 MSRP! Yamaha part number 4NK-81890-00-00.

[Flyinfool]

If you are making replacement cables, the thing to use is #4 AWG welding cable, you can get the cable and terminals from most welding supply houses. The cable that Yamaha used is to small and drops voltage.

[cruiserlover]

If you are making replacement cables, the thing to use is #4 AWG welding cable, you can get the cable and terminals from most welding supply houses. The cable that Yamaha used is to small and drops voltage.

 

they have them at walmart.just put the bike connectors on.Not sure where to get those.I had a 1 foot cable made at a dealer.$57.took them 5 minutes.ridiculous.