Got to see them both today

[SilvrT]

Stopped in at the local Honda / Yamaha / Kawasaki dealer today in hopes of seeing a new Venture....

 

And I lucked out ... not only did I see the new Eluder, they also had 4 new Goldwings (2 with SOLD signs on them)

 

There wasn't any new Venture, just one Eluder.

 

Those Honda's are, IMO, one sweet machine. They appear to be much smaller than the previous generation. On the other hand, the Eluder appears much bigger.

 

I so wanted to straddle them but they don't allow ya to do that.

[BigLenny]

SilverT,

 

A couple weeks ago, I did the same. Stopped by a Yamaha, Honda, Kawi dealer. I was able to test ride the Venture, then jump right on the Goldwing and test ride it. The Venture was very nice and smooth, but the Goldwing was special. that dude highly impressed me. Extremely smooth, and crazy aggressive in the curves. Everything on it felt high end. It is certainly quite a bit smaller than the old GW, and the new Venture.

[cowpuc]

I been sayin it,,,, I know of at least one of the 5 star Honda dealers down yonder who have already sold over 50 of the new Wings at just their shop.... Similar to the new Venture on our site,, there is a lot of going on over at the Wing site that I have been following since I heard the new Wing was coming from those who are on the new one and those who think Honda went the wrong way by not staying more in line with the full blown heavy weight touring bikes (the very reason too that Rider Magazine did not allow the new Wing to join in the Titans of Touring shootout - Rider said they viewed the new Wing as a light weight now = a Sport Touring bike in league with the FJR, ST's or even CTX's) BUT,,,,, WOWZY - following the classifieds over there of folks who are selling out to grab a new Wing and reading how many have traded up at dealerships = definitely makes one wonder if Honda really has got a history making,game changing, turning the touring world upside down scoot on their hands...

I got to set on one as it was being put together recently but (THAT VARMINT FOOL AND HIS BOOSTED W.W.W.) because of weather - have yet to ride one like we have the new Venture but gotta say,,, just from sitting on it and bouncing it between the knees = totally agree with you guys - DEFINITELY something really special right there!! Personally I think the Wing is the only new model that I have been exposed to that has earned thru major RnD - ground up changes and advancements the mid 20's and up price tag found on all of them - my opinion and mine alone.. I am witholding my call on the new Bsemer until I get a chance to that puppy too BUT,, and this is big one to me,,,, if those Germans went to all that amazing effort to build that Grand America full on GORGEOUS touring scoot (as seen in pictures only so far in my case) with an actual 160 horse and then did in fact stuff a unchangeable 101 mph speed limiter on (as rumored) so a even a Honda 600 scooter or a kid on an old EVO Hd will rip by it then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, well,,,,, then Honda wins the only one worthy of the $$$$'s being asked IMHO....

 

Silv,, no idea why they wouldnt let you take a seat = maybe the bike(s) were all sold.. If you EVER get another chance to at least swing a leg over one, my money is you will be shocked at how light it is coming off the stand.. Truly,,,, felt almost dirt bikish to this ol varmint!!

Edited April 19, 2018 by cowpuc

[YamahaParExcellence]

I been sayin it,,,, I know of at least one of the 5 star Honda dealers down yonder who have already sold over 50 of the new Wings at just their shop.... Similar to the new Venture on our site,, there is a lot of going on over at the Wing site that I have been following since I heard the new Wing was coming from those who are on the new one and those who think Honda went the wrong way by not staying more in line with the full blown heavy weight touring bikes (the very reason too that Rider Magazine did not allow the new Wing to join in the Titans of Touring shootout - Rider said they viewed the new Wing as a light weight now = a Sport Touring bike in league with the FJR, ST's or even CTX's) BUT,,,,, WOWZY - following the classifieds over there of folks who are selling out to grab a new Wing and reading how many have traded up at dealerships = definitely makes one wonder if Honda really has got a history making,game changing, turning the touring world upside down scoot on their hands...

I got to set on one as it was being put together recently but (THAT VARMINT FOOL AND HIS BOOSTED W.W.W.) because of weather - have yet to ride one like we have the new Venture but gotta say,,, just from sitting on it and bouncing it between the knees = totally agree with you guys - DEFINITELY something really special right there!! Personally I think the Wing is the only new model that I have been exposed to that has earned thru major RnD - ground up changes and advancements the mid 20's and up price tag found on all of them - my opinion and mine alone.. I am witholding my call on the new Bsemer until I get a chance to that puppy too BUT,, and this is big one to me,,,, if those Germans went to all that amazing effort to build that Grand America full on GORGEOUS touring scoot (as seen in pictures only so far in my case) with an actual 160 horse and then did in fact stuff a unchangeable 101 mph speed limiter on (as rumored) so a even a Honda 600 scooter or a kid on an old EVO Hd will rip by it then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, well,,,,, then Honda wins the only one worthy of the $$$$'s being asked IMHO.

 

Silv,, no idea why they wouldnt let you take a seat = maybe the bike(s) were all sold.. If you EVER get another chance to at least swing a leg over one, my money is you will be shocked at how light it is coming off the stand.. Truly,,,, felt almost dirt bikish to this ol varmint!!

 

Puc...honestly...truly, the bike, in my view of you on it, actually looks too small for you...it DOES look like a Sport Tour, in the ST line..and I think that is exactly what Honda was doing. I think they should have retired the Goldwing name with the 2017 model, and properly, and fairly marketed this as an ST-1800, a totally new model. Just my feelings, that they were dishonest, in still using the Goldwing name plate, and then put this version out the door. Just sayin, from a guy that bought five Goldwings over the years, since 1975. I think the moniker now, is rather disingenuous. MPO.

 

If they had put this bike out, as an ST-1800, and with regard to the size of the new bags...and then, if I compared it to what is now, a fair comparison, a new Yamaha 1300 FJRABS/ES...then, I would never had given any negative comment upon it. It would have been fairly represented for its function mandate. No problem...for every company has a right to end a model, in any year. But to put their tour out as an equal (or better?) than their 2017...is a joke, and disingenuous, in my opinion. I was a full throttle Honda fanboy...so...the 2018 was a massive let down and disappointment for both my wife and I. We would have traded our 2008 Wing in three years ago, if we could have seen a snap of the 2018 back then.

Edited April 20, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence

[Condor]

Puc...honestly...truly, the bike, in my view of you on it, actually looks too small for you...it DOES look like a Sport Tour, in the ST line..and I think that is exactly what Honda was doing. MPO.

 

Yep, I was noticing the same thing... And if looked to small for Puc I would look like King Farook sitting on a bar stool..... I'm caught in a catch 22 situation... I like big bikes because I'm very big, I even make a Gen2 look small, but at my age they are getting very hard to wrestle.....

 

[BlueSky]

I think they should have retired the Goldwing name with the 2017 model, and properly, and fairly marketed this as an ST-1800, a totally new model. Just my feelings, that they were dishonest, in still using the Goldwing name plate, and then put this version out the door. Just sayin, from a guy that bought five Goldwings over the years, since 1975. I think the moniker now, is rather disingenuous. MPO.

 

If they had put this bike out, as an ST-1800, and with regard to the size of the new bags...and then, if I compared it to what is now, a fair comparison, a new Yamaha 1300 FJRABS/ES...then, I would never had given any negative comment upon it. It would have been fairly represented for its function mandate. No problem...for every company has a right to end a model, in any year. But to put their tour out as an equal (or better?) than their 2017...is a joke, and disingenuous, in my opinion. I was a full throttle Honda fanboy...so...the 2018 was a massive let down and disappointment for both my wife and I. We would have traded our 2008 Wing in three years ago, if we could have seen a snap of the 2018 back them.

 

A lot of us have commented about the changes Yamaha made to the Venture, air/oil cooled v-twin instead of the more expensive water cooled V4, belt drive instead of the more expensive drive shaft and made similar statements about how it isn't a Venture. I'm sure it's a great bike but nothing like its heritage. All in the way a guy perceives things. The new GW is mainly just a little smaller, lighter, with an updated flat six and new front suspension. It's not even close to an FJR. The FJR has a semi-sport bike seating position with your legs folded up and leaning forward with weight on your arms with only 26 degrees rake. New GW has an upright riding position like always with a 30.5 degree rake for cruising. I can understand why some GW owners are disappointed if they want those huge comfy seats for all day touring. Yamaha went after the Harley touring market and Honda has never done that. Looks like they went a little to the German touring bike side.

[YamahaParExcellence]

A lot of us have commented about the changes Yamaha made to the Venture, air/oil cooled v-twin instead of the more expensive water cooled V4, belt drive instead of the more expensive drive shaft and made similar statements about how it isn't a Venture. I'm sure it's a great bike but nothing like its heritage. All in the way a guy perceives things. The new GW is mainly just a little smaller, lighter, with an updated flat six and new front suspension. It's not even close to an FJR. The FJR has a semi-sport bike seating position with your legs folded up and leaning forward with weight on your arms with only 26 degrees rake. New GW has an upright riding position like always with a 30.5 degree rake for cruising. I can understand why some GW owners are disappointed if they want those huge comfy seats for all day touring. Yamaha went after the Harley touring market and Honda has never done that. Looks like they went a little to the German touring bike side.

 

I went into a Yamaha dealer last week, and they had a Grey SVTC on the showroom floor. There were two GW's, in the parking lot. I didn't bother to find out the years... but pretty current GL1800's. Two guys were standing in front of the SVTC and discussing it, between them. I asked if those two Wings, were their rides. They said yes.. "So, you guys are looking the Venture over?" Yessir..., we are. You too?" "I already bought one, and now just waiting to have it delivered." "What did you ride, before?" "A 2008 Wing, just like you two". "See John...we're not the only ones...I told ya!" "You guy's seriously thinking also of jumping ship?" "Yeah...we both are...not too impressed with the 18'" "Well, good luck, but I do know that if the both of you want one...you'd had better flip a coin for this one..and then madly start calling around, for I can absolutely tell you...there are no more being shipped to Yamaha dealers for this year. Only whats left on their floors. They totally underestimated the reception, and were playing it coy...their mistake. One of you needs to call quickly, and drop $500.00 over the phone to a dealer that has one. Good luck!" They thanked me, but I don't quite think either of them believed me when I told them that in only April...there's no more coming into Ontario. Sadly...one of them might find out the hard way...I was right. I carried on with my ride on my Kawa. BTW, the SVTC in person is absolutely incredible...BIG...man...this bike is massive, I sat upon one (it) for the first time...and just marveled at it. It 'felt' bigger, more room everywhere in the cockpit then my 2008 Wing. Truly..." We are going to have a blast, owning it! Again...I could demo the infotainment, I could sit upon it and move over to the left, the right...it felt like an ST1300 (that I had sat upon) Wow...did Yamaha ever create a beauty! I can't wait to run down the road on my own...this is really now killing me, the wait!

 

BlueSky...current Honda Goldwing riders, are leaving Honda...in droves...in droves...with myself and my wife as included among them.

Edited April 21, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence

[cowpuc]

A lot of us have commented about the changes Yamaha made to the Venture, air/oil cooled v-twin instead of the more expensive water cooled V4, belt drive instead of the more expensive drive shaft and made similar statements about how it isn't a Venture. I'm sure it's a great bike but nothing like its heritage. All in the way a guy perceives things. The new GW is mainly just a little smaller, lighter, with an updated flat six and new front suspension. It's not even close to an FJR. The FJR has a semi-sport bike seating position with your legs folded up and leaning forward with weight on your arms with only 26 degrees rake. New GW has an upright riding position like always with a 30.5 degree rake for cruising. I can understand why some GW owners are disappointed if they want those huge comfy seats for all day touring. Yamaha went after the Harley touring market and Honda has never done that. Looks like they went a little to the German touring bike side.

 

Took the words right out of my mouth Sky... It's kind of mind boggling watching all this unfold... Another good one is watching HD's move into watercooling to cool things off a little and get better performance while meeting new Regs all while Yamaha jumps in both feet with an air cooled..... Crazy...

[cowpuc]

I went into a Yamaha dealer last week, and they had a Grey SVTC on the showroom floor. There were two GW's, in the parking lot. I didn't bother to find out the years... but pretty current GL1800's. Two guys were standing in front of the SVTC and discussing it, between them. I asked if those two Wings, were their rides. They said yes.. "So, you guys are looking the Venture over?" Yessir..., we are. You too?" "I already bought one, and now just waiting to have it delivered." "What did you ride, before?" "A 2008 Wing, just like you two". "See John...we're not the only ones...I told ya!" "You guy's seriously thinking also of jumping ship?" "Yeah...we both are...not too impressed with the 18'" "Well, good luck, but I do know that if the both of you want one...you'd had better flip a coin for this one..and then madly start calling around, for I can absolutely tell you...there are no more being shipped to Yamaha dealers for this year. Only whats left on their floors. They totally underestimated the reception, and were playing it coy...their mistake. One of you needs to call quickly, and drop $500.00 over the phone to a dealer that has one. Good luck!" They thanked me, but I don't quite think either of them believed me when I told them that in only April...there's no more coming into Ontario. Sadly...one of them might find out the hard way...I was right. I carried on with my ride on my Kawa. BTW, the SVTC in person is absolutely incredible...BIG...man...this bike is massive, I sat upon one (it) for the first time...and just marveled at it. It 'felt' bigger, more room everywhere in the cockpit then my 2008 Wing. Truly..." We are going to have a blast, owning it! Again...I could demo the infotainment, I could sit upon it and move over to the left, the right...it felt like an ST1300 (that I had sat upon) Wow...did Yamaha ever create a beauty! I can't wait to run down the road on my own...this is really now killing me, the wait!

 

BlueSky...current Honda Goldwing riders, are leaving Honda...in droves...in droves...with myself and my wife as included among them.

 

Whats really crazy about all that Yamster is that I have been following one of the biggest Wing forums since the unveiling and in all seriousness - I have yet to read where any of those guys,even 1, are even thinking of jumping ship to the new Venture... The comments I have seen even mentioning that surround one of disbelief that Mom Yam stuck an air cooled motor in the new Venture = it seems that most of those folks lean toward not being in much of an alignment with the "Harley way" - sort of different ways of thinking.. Now if we were talking about the Polaris motorcycle forums,,,, WOWZY - the Victory sites seemed much more in acceptance and welcoming of the idea IMHO... From what I have been reading,, the Wing riders seem to be more along the line of debating - buying new left over REAL Wings or being blown away with the "game changing" new one = now THAT debate is HOT (from what I see)...

Another interesting thing is within our own forums here... There is a running poll over on one of the Wing sites for new owners of the new machine asking how they like their choice of DCT or Manual.. Something I noticed, among other things, when thinking about that poll was the total number of responders I noticed - right around 100 total.. Also in the discussion pertaining to that poll, it intrigued me in the number of long term members/Wing riders who had grabbed a new one compared to the amount of new comers jumping onto the Wing rolls..

When I compare notes from that site to that here at VR and look for long term members here who are riding the new one I come up somewhat less than over on the Honda site - I am truly not sure that I know of even one long term member here who has purchased the new one.. New members, like yourself, the same thing - indeed,, it is AWESOME to have/meet/hear from the new members riding/owning the Venture and it is ALWAYS refreshing to make new friends but,, when compared to the new member numbers on just that one Wing site who have purchased and have joined their club - ours seem down by quite a shot. I do wish the "Star Touring" group was not so expensive to join and/or so tight lipped about whats happening within their circles because I sometimes wonder if - because they are basically where the whole scheme and design of the new Venture had its basis (I actually got to meet the folks from the Star Group that convinced Mom Yam to go air cooled/belt drive Strat motor out at the world launch at Americade in New York last year) - if their clubs walls might be busting at the seams with folks riding the new one - it would be interesting to know.. From what I have been reading in following here with the comments yourself and others have made - I have a hunch that their clubs walls would tell a simular story statistically of that I seem to see happening on the big Wing forum.. I have been racking my brain trying to think of someone I know that particpates in that club to pick their brain in order to validate that theory but to date have come up short with someone who is a member therein...

Another VERY interesting thing is listening to you and others who are Northern neighbors of the States and to hear how WOWZY WOW WOW WOW the Venture is scoring up there!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have no idea what the east side of Michigan is like as far as unspoken for SVTC/Eluders are over there but I can tell ya,, on the west side = its a walk in, negotiate a deal and walk out the same day with a new bike over here and we are,, what,,,, maybe 5 hours from Windsor On..

Another VERY interesting thing concerning the Wing that I noticed.... I have always been amazed that Honda kept playing with the whole "Automatic Transmission" idea in bike - they have been playing that tune for many many years in a variety of ways and,, from what I experienced both professionally in sales and also from watching floor plans fall apart - the automatic tranny idea is/was/has been a perpetual failure,,,,,,,,,,,,,, UNTIL NOW!!!!! Right away I notice the sales of the new DCT Wing taking off,,, then it took off some more,,, last time I checked the dealerships couldnt get em in fast enough and now I read that even Honda Reps themselves have stated that what they expected (80% manual shift - 20 DCT) is exactly backwards - WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT?

I posted our slow ride video (shown below) to a famous touring bike instruction guy and asked if the new DCT would be capable of this and got a "doubtful" answer... Honda's response concerning the matter, if needing to slow ride at the pace I am showing in the event of a slow moving traffic jam is one of - it is not good for the DCT to be ridden in the friction zone as days of old, instead, stopping the vehicle and letting the traffic open a gab and then filling the gap and stopping again is the acceptable way to approach this... Clearly,, the majority of people who are purchasing this new DCT are good with that,,, I,,,, I CANT IMAGINE THIS.. I cant imagine being in a line of slow moving traffic for 5 hours (think,,,,,,, Lake Tahoe to Placerville California on a Sunday evening) being the one who is making the traffic come to stop every 40 feet - .........

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by cowpuc

[The Tooch]

Puc...honestly...truly, the bike, in my view of you on it, actually looks too small for you...it DOES look like a Sport Tour, in the ST line..and I think that is exactly what Honda was doing. I think they should have retired the Goldwing name with the 2017 model, and properly, and fairly marketed this as an ST-1800, a totally new model. Just my feelings, that they were dishonest, in still using the Goldwing name plate, and then put this version out the door. Just sayin, from a guy that bought five Goldwings over the years, since 1975. I think the moniker now, is rather disingenuous. MPO.

 

If they had put this bike out, as an ST-1800, and with regard to the size of the new bags...and then, if I compared it to what is now, a fair comparison, a new Yamaha 1300 FJRABS/ES...then, I would never had given any negative comment upon it. It would have been fairly represented for its function mandate. No problem...for every company has a right to end a model, in any year. But to put their tour out as an equal (or better?) than their 2017...is a joke, and disingenuous, in my opinion. I was a full throttle Honda fanboy...so...the 2018 was a massive let down and disappointment for both my wife and I. We would have traded our 2008 Wing in three years ago, if we could have seen a snap of the 2018 back then.

 

Wow! I think just the opposite.....I'm a guy that owned nothing but Honda's until I bought my 2005 Venture and then bought another 2013 Venture.....Yamaha has no right to sell that thing as a Venture! "MPO"

 

V-twin, belt drive, air cooled HD want'a,bee not a Venture! "Dishonest in still using the Venture name plate!"......Yamaha to sell that Strato-tourer as a Venture! "is a joke, and disingenuous, to a full throttle Venture fanboy!"

 

At least Honda stuck with an 1800 shaft dive fully loaded touring package along the same lines as the Gold Wings past and going back toward the original smaller lighter sportier 1200 - 1500 Wings before they became so big and some might say just a little to heavy.

 

Puc's right, I think most of us Venture riders feel really let down by MotherYamaha......nice bike......some might just love it....but call it what it is....a Strato-tourer!

 

P.S. I ride the ST replacement!

 

P.S.S. Hey YamahaParExcellence welcome aboard and check out the calendar for MarCarl's meet & eat in May...sounds like you should have your new scooter by then and we'd like to have a chance to see it and meet a new member.

[cowpuc]

Puc...honestly...truly, the bike, in my view of veou on it, actually looks too small for you...it DOES look like a Sport Tour, in the ST line..and I think that is exactly what Honda was doing. I think they should have retired the Goldwing name with the 2017 model, and properly, and fairly marketed this as an ST-1800, a totally new model. Just my feelings, that they were dishonest, in still using the Goldwing name plate, and then put this version out the door. Just sayin, from a guy that bought five Goldwings over the years, since 1975. I think the moniker now, is rather disingenuous. MPO.

 

If they had put this bike out, as an ST-1800, and with regard to the size of the new bags...and then, if I compared it to what is now, a fair comparison, a new Yamaha 1300 FJRABS/ES...then, I would never had given any negativlawne comment upon it. It would have been fairly represented for its function mandate. No problem...for every company has a right to end a model, in any year. But to put their tour out as an equal (or better?) than their 2017...is a joke, and disingenuous, in my opinion. I was a full throttle Honda fanboy...so...the 2018 was a massive let down and disappointment for both my wife and I. We would have traded our 2008 Wing in three years ago, if we could have seen a snap of the 2018 back then.

 

Yamster,,,,, I have chased a fair number of front wheels in my season,,, both on and off road - on everything from bicycles with lawn mower engines taped in their frames to some of the worlds fastest production motorcycles and I gotta say, that thru all that chasing of the front wheel,,, bar none,,, and discovered totally by accident - the Yamaha MK1 1st Gen Ventures fit me the best... And that being so with not add ons needed = right off the showroom floor. Simply fold the bars back and down, put a sleeping bag, one of kids or Tippy on behind me to lean back on and INSTANTLY - 12 to 16 hour ride days for both of us - no monkey butt - no stiff shoulders - no cramp legs = just open road touring for days on end.. Straight up and from the hip? For real,,, over a million miles of that..

Now that said,,, please take a minute and go back to post 9 of this thread, you will see the opening picture of one of our video clips. Dont press play but stare for a second at that pic of Tip and I on that old bike.. Notice the distances and angles of our body parts connecting with the scoot, pay particular attention to my foot/leg/arm/hand/shoulder/neck positons in relationship to the bikes contact points... Now try to hold that image, go back to post 3 of this thread and overlay that same image onto the last picture of me sitting on that new Wing. You and others might not see what I see but what I see explains to me why I instantly felt some very special with the Wing... I cant say much more beyond that because,unlike the new Venture, I have not ridden one but someday very soon I/we plan to conclude that part of forming our personal opinions of the new Wings fit for us too... IMHO,,,that is the only way to really know = gotta spin the wheels to know how she feels...

[cowpuc]

Puc...honestly...truly, the bike, in my view of you on it, actually looks too small for you...it DOES look like a Sport Tour, in the ST line..and I think that is exactly what Honda was doing. I think they should have retired the Goldwing name with the 2017 model, and properly, and fairly marketed this as an ST-1800, a totally new model. Just my feelings, that they were dishonest, in still using the Goldwing name plate, and then put this version out the door. Just sayin, from a guy that bought five Goldwings over the years, since 1975. I think the moniker now, is rather disingenuous. MPO.

 

If they had put this bike out, as an ST-1800, and with regard to the size of the new bags...and then, if I compared it to what is now, a fair comparison, a new Yamaha 1300 FJRABS/ES...then, I would never had given any negative comment upon it. It would have been fairly represented for its function mandate. No problem...for every company has a right to end a model, in any year. But to put their tour out as an equal (or better?) than their 2017...is a joke, and disingenuous, in my opinion. I was a full throttle Honda fanboy...so...the 2018 was a massive let down and disappointment for both my wife and I. We would have traded our 2008 Wing in three years ago, if we could have seen a snap of the 2018 back then.

 

Wow! I think just the opposite.....I'm a guy that owned nothing but Honda's until I bought my 2005 Venture and then bought another 2013 Venture.....Yamaha has no right to sell that thing as a Venture! "MPO"

 

V-twin, belt drive, air cooled HD want'a,bee not a Venture! "Dishonest in still using the Venture name plate!"......Yamaha to sell that Strato-tourer as a Venture! "is a joke, and disingenuous, to a full throttle Venture fanboy!"

 

At least Honda stuck with an 1800 shaft dive fully loaded touring package along the same lines as the Gold Wings past and going back toward the original smaller lighter sportier 1200 - 1500 Wings before they became so big and some might say just a little to heavy.

 

Puc's right, I think most of us Venture riders feel really let down by MotherYamaha......nice bike......some might just love it....but call it what it is....a Strato-tourer!

 

P.S. I ride the ST replacement!

 

P.S.S. Hey YamahaParExcellence welcome aboard and check out the calendar for MarCarl's meet & eat in May...sounds like you should have your new scooter by then and we'd like to have a chance to see it and meet a new member.

 

When I 1st read YamaPar's post above the thought crossed my mind of exactly what Dave responded with here,,,,,,, like what the heckster,,, this exWinger brother is defining the feelings about what Mom Yam came up with for our new Venture to a tee... Well said Tooch,,,,,, it's all confusing and hard to understand all the in's and out's but I gotta say,,,,, could not have said it better myself...

[YamahaParExcellence]

Yep, I was noticing the same thing... And if looked to small for Puc I would look like King Farook sitting on a bar stool..... I'm caught in a catch 22 situation... I like big bikes because I'm very big, I even make a Gen2 look small, but at my age they are getting very hard to wrestle.....

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112302

 

Me too, to be frank, Condor. I'm 6'3-4"....a large man, always have been from even my early 20's..., due to muscle mass, bone structure and usually fall in to my 30's 40's weight as around 240 to 260 lbs...winter to summer hibernation cycles...you know? But mostly...larger, rather than smaller. I have a 32/33 inseam, so probably equal to my torso, as refelcte my height below my hips, so I'd say my body structure is 'median,' for a guy---> 6'3-4". (a spine operation added one inch to my biological height).

 

With the above description of myself, even last year, on tour, with the bike (2008 Gold Wing) packed to the gunwales, my lovely co-rider wife sitting behind me, and myself plopped in front of her...I had to raise my heels off the ground, like a woman in high heels, to touch down and hold the 2008 Gold Wing balanced. I have also noted, (no ego operating here, folks...) that my physical strength (muscle mass) has changed even from 55 onward, in that quite frankly, I don't seem to have the physical strength I once owned. I exercise, we walk everywhere we can..but honestly, the aging process keeps whittling the body down. You young folks, are probably rolling your eyes...but JUST WAIT. JUST WAIT, lol....it's coming to a local station, in your 'viewing area'!....

 

So...we talked about it, and it was hard for me to have that discussion with my wife...you know...'Hon...I'm starting to find it perhaps, a sort of a worry bead, that on the right road condition, road bank angle,....in doing a one-eighty back the other way....the bank angle might be too much for my aging legs, and I might drop the bike. It was hard for me (I'm as proud and feeling masculine as the next bloke...) to have that conversation...but we---->did. That was another reason that (for me...for us...she understood, and was very supportive) that I wanted to have a bike that I could totally, at a stop, or rest, FLAT FOOT'it upon the ground.

 

With the SVTC's saddle , not only could I totally flat foot it...but because of the low center of gravity this beauty has...(for the sheer mass of this bike...wow!) it felt like I was on my 567 pound Kawasaki ZR-7S! That is a totally,---> honest statement. To hold up the SVTC (for me, anyway, I can't speak for another rider) was the same. WOW....wow...and wow! Safety, and strong feeling of control and balance, once more...! Hooray!

 

So, Condor..you are not alone. If we are honest about how the aging process affects the human body...we walk the walk...and do something to offset that result. Personally...I (be warned...) am now, an unabashed, raging fanboy for Yamaha...in that they by means of the V-Twin, though as massive an engine it is...with a dry sump, that sits low in the frame, with no top end fulcrum effect...lets you sling around an almost 1,000 pound bike, like it **WAS** a mid-size sports tour frame. Yep...I'm a flaming fanboy of the brand now.

 

Great engineering....and to finally sit upon one at a dealership.. to feel I was..... man-oh-man...'enveloped' by this beauty, felt part of the bike...and not perched (like as you say,..sitting on a stool...which actually is a very good analogy!) was such a great, great feeling.

 

The bike makes me at 6'3-4", at 260 pounds presently...look like a guy, running around 210 pounds, and 5' 10"!!! Final comments, you know how if you have owned a type of bike for years, upon years, you get a mental burnt in image of the size...stature, and how you, in pictures (as feedback), well...look upon the bike? I can tell you...that I feel the bike is longer,...wider, way, way more luxurious than even our 2008 Wing ever afforded in the cockpit, and I swear..I could stand for an hour...at the mid mark of this bike, with coffee in hand...and just take in the sheer (you Yamaha design team...KUDOS...KUDOS...you should win a design award for your creation!) elegance of the flow, of the body work. The front shark head, has the aggressive, no-monkey-business look, of a Plymouth Barracuda...of which I loved in my youth...it looks **exactly** like that...then,...to the lowering back angle flow and rake of the body work...ending at the massive, volume'ed rear top trunk...that graceful angle of the sweep back...gawd...what a bike! What...a...bike!

 

I will be so proud as the owner, to walk up to this beaut, from a rest, from the hotel room, from the restaurant. Totally...into this.

 

Cheers, Condor...and bottom line...we two older, bigger guys...can take ownership of this bike...can pack the kitchen sink if you need to....can be one month upon tour with this baby, should you wish to,...can hotel...can camp....can everything...and feel totally in control of the whole show. This is ...the bike for you, trust me. This is it.

 

Joe,----> the expectant soon-to-be-father...waiting for news, in the dealership, Waiting Room... Sure feels like that... I hope my three children don't feel jealous, LOL!

[YamahaParExcellence]

Whats really crazy about all that Yamster is that I have been following one of the biggest Wing forums since the unveiling and in all seriousness - I have yet to read where any of those guys,even 1, are even thinking of jumping ship to the new Venture... The comments I have seen even mentioning that surround one of disbelief that Mom Yam stuck an air cooled motor in the new Venture = it seems that most of those folks lean toward not being in much of an alignment with the "Harley way" - sort of different ways of thinking.. Now if we were talking about the Polaris motorcycle forums,,,, WOWZY - the Victory sites seemed much more in acceptance and welcoming of the idea IMHO... From what I have been reading,, the Wing riders seem to be more along the line of debating - buying new left over REAL Wings or being blown away with the "game changing" new one = now THAT debate is HOT (from what I see)...

Another interesting thing is within our own forums here... There is a running poll over on one of the Wing sites for new owners of the new machine asking how they like their choice of DCT or Manual.. Something I noticed, among other things, when thinking about that poll was the total number of responders I noticed - right around 100 total.. Also in the discussion pertaining to that poll, it intrigued me in the number of long term members/Wing riders who had grabbed a new one compared to the amount of new comers jumping onto the Wing rolls..

When I compare notes from that site to that here at VR and look for long term members here who are riding the new one I come up somewhat less than over on the Honda site - I am truly not sure that I know of even one long term member here who has purchased the new one.. New members, like yourself, the same thing - indeed,, it is AWESOME to have/meet/hear from the new members riding/owning the Venture and it is ALWAYS refreshing to make new friends but,, when compared to the new member numbers on just that one Wing site who have purchased and have joined their club - ours seem down by quite a shot. I do wish the "Star Touring" group was not so expensive to join and/or so tight lipped about whats happening within their circles because I sometimes wonder if - because they are basically where the whole scheme and design of the new Venture had its basis (I actually got to meet the folks from the Star Group that convinced Mom Yam to go air cooled/belt drive Strat motor out at the world launch at Americade in New York last year) - if their clubs walls might be busting at the seams with folks riding the new one - it would be interesting to know.. From what I have been reading in following here with the comments yourself and others have made - I have a hunch that their clubs walls would tell a simular story statistically of that I seem to see happening on the big Wing forum.. I have been racking my brain trying to think of someone I know that particpates in that club to pick their brain in order to validate that theory but to date have come up short with someone who is a member therein...

Another VERY interesting thing is listening to you and others who are Northern neighbors of the States and to hear how WOWZY WOW WOW WOW the Venture is scoring up there!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have no idea what the east side of Michigan is like as far as unspoken for SVTC/Eluders are over there but I can tell ya,, on the west side = its a walk in, negotiate a deal and walk out the same day with a new bike over here and we are,, what,,,, maybe 5 hours from Windsor On..

Another VERY interesting thing concerning the Wing that I noticed.... I have always been amazed that Honda kept playing with the whole "Automatic Transmission" idea in bike - they have been playing that tune for many many years in a variety of ways and,, from what I experienced both professionally in sales and also from watching floor plans fall apart - the automatic tranny idea is/was/has been a perpetual failure,,,,,,,,,,,,,, UNTIL NOW!!!!! Right away I notice the sales of the new DCT Wing taking off,,, then it took off some more,,, last time I checked the dealerships couldnt get em in fast enough and now I read that even Honda Reps themselves have stated that what they expected (80% manual shift - 20 DCT) is exactly backwards - WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT?

I posted our slow ride video (shown below) to a famous touring bike instruction guy and asked if the new DCT would be capable of this and got a "doubtful" answer... Honda's response concerning the matter, if needing to slow ride at the pace I am showing in the event of a slow moving traffic jam is one of - it is not good for the DCT to be ridden in the friction zone as days of old, instead, stopping the vehicle and letting the traffic open a gab and then filling the gap and stopping again is the acceptable way to approach this... Clearly,, the majority of people who are purchasing this new DCT are good with that,,, I,,,, I CANT IMAGINE THIS.. I cant imagine being in a line of slow moving traffic for 5 hours (think,,,,,,, Lake Tahoe to Placerville California on a Sunday evening) being the one who is making the traffic come to stop every 40 feet - .........

 

 

Hi Puc...and I might have a reason for that...brand loyalty 'embarrassment, and disillusionment. I also haunted most of the Gold Wing forums...Saunders, GW Riders...all of them...and what you will find...is that there 'is'...a silence...whereby you will find folks like me, that out-of-character for a hard line, G W fan-person...WILL state their displeasure, or worse yet...to any other GW rider...who are most fearlessly LOYAL...to the brand...to read about that 'traitor'...that jumped ship and went to another manufacturer....well frankly Puc...is most rare. Like you..I am vocal...will respectively speak my mind, through my finger tips...will gladly eat crow..if wrong...will gladly publish that my 'previously' held position on any matter, has changed due to more reflection, or experience, or merely better information. I think anybody that can say they were wrong with a stance...shows power and integrity. My view anyway.

 

I obviously can't compromise the reason(s) that fellow Gold Wing riders, posted to me their true, un-masked and self-censored feelings within PM messages, but not in 'open forum' mentioning...but...I had dozens of those that were much let down...were much 'angry'...with expressions, that they 'felt betrayed, in the waiting for reveal'...and on and such. A lot of them, feel they will be rejected and ostracized from the on-line family they have for years, been cultivating. I...for one, have a strong personal sense of self-integrity. I won't hide my true feelings, within silence, Puc. Have I felt the heat within certain forums? Yes. Have I been ostracized for jumping ship...and speaking 'in a negative vein' against Mother Honda. Puc...I sure have...and that's ok. That's human nature, and the collective, Lord of The Flies, human mind-think. We love groups...we love villages...and don't take kindly, when someone denigrates our 'chief'.... Puc..those folks walked into a Yamaha, or Harley dealership...traded in, (if that was the case) their current Gold Wing...and rode out...quietly. They would NOT ever...post onto the open, visited G.W. boards, that they did that. They would just hang out...as usual. Trust me...I have seen that. I highly doubt that those two guys slobbering over that grey SVTC....and then going outside to fight (lol)a duel, lol...as to who gets it...are gonna publish that to all their GWRRA friends...NOPE....and I highly doubt they would into the future, show up at any Wing Ding...or chapter function on their Ventures. Puc...for 50 years..have I been in the Honda Gold Wing culture...and have seen this day in, day out. I have seen riders shunned...almost like a religious order...for having purchased another Honda platform..LET ALONE...left Honda to boot!

 

So...in answer to your seeing in a lot of Honda dedicated, Wing dedicated forums...less, or even non-existent 'migration' posts...I offer the above as a possible reason to lack, thereof. I was in that...and walked the walk.

 

BTW, Puc...I am really, really enjoying our vis 'a vis. Great dialog, with nobody needing the last word, or 'shouting' above the other's voice. Just a great interaction, that I am personally enjoying. To your scratching your head about the DCT vs. Manual tranny metrics,...I think it all comes down to the R.O.I...with a Winger, knowing that most that can afford , truly afford, with not being cash-flow-poor because you are raising a family, two cars...a mortgage, and have a $25,000 plus (for Canadian riders 32,000), is that, "who am I going to sell and market this bike to...when I hang it up, or want another newer bike?"...yep...the older rider. Puc...if I had decided to buy a 2018...and I LOVE the rider/machine interaction of pulling in the clutch, tapping the gear shift...letting out the clutch...that to me, is part of biking...BUT...for my 'intelligent' due diligence, I can smell the wind...and would have bought the DCT. I wouldn't have much liked it from the get go...who's to say that I wouldn't end up...liking it after all...but wondering that...doesn't hold weight..when you are laying the cash out...

 

For the next five years...in my personal opinion...it will be the DCT model that returns the best R.O.I. at sell, or trade in time. Manual riders, unfortunately will be left out in the cold. (again..a personal take, only).

 

BTW, Puc, you showed great handling skill in slow turn especially upon grass and soft ground. Kudos! Years of riding, clearly in play. You're right...it will be interesting to see how the DCT rider would handle that...soft ground...over grass...camping, dirt roads...interesting.

 

Joe

Edited April 21, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence

[YamahaParExcellence]

Wow! I think just the opposite.....I'm a guy that owned nothing but Honda's until I bought my 2005 Venture and then bought another 2013 Venture.....Yamaha has no right to sell that thing as a Venture! "MPO"

 

V-twin, belt drive, air cooled HD want'a,bee not a Venture! "Dishonest in still using the Venture name plate!"......Yamaha to sell that Strato-tourer as a Venture! "is a joke, and disingenuous, to a full throttle Venture fanboy!"

 

At least Honda stuck with an 1800 shaft dive fully loaded touring package along the same lines as the Gold Wings past and going back toward the original smaller lighter sportier 1200 - 1500 Wings before they became so big and some might say just a little to heavy.

 

Puc's right, I think most of us Venture riders feel really let down by MotherYamaha......nice bike......some might just love it....but call it what it is....a Strato-tourer!

 

P.S. I ride the ST replacement!

 

P.S.S. Hey YamahaParExcellence welcome aboard and check out the calendar for MarCarl's meet & eat in May...sounds like you should have your new scooter by then and we'd like to have a chance to see it and meet a new member.

 

 

Hi Tooch, and thank you!...so I understand that you traded in/sold your 2013 Venture, and purchased a 2018 Wing? If that is so...then totally cool for you. I wish you many years of good tour and fun events. Tooch, I'm not saying that technically, it (the 2018) is not a good bike, (and of course am speaking only through a personal opinion envelope...), but that for myself, and lots of past Gl1800 (2000-2017) they took away the very features that had I dropped our money down upon five of them. I perhaps, should...and you know what...from now on...from this post forward...will no longer publicly comment my displeasure with that model. I have no right to rain on anybody's parade. If you do own one, please accept my apology....for nobody should dump on another's ride. Lips are sealed from this post onward, regarding the 2018 Honda Gold Wing. We all purchase for our own personal and (rider preference) reasons...and truly...(smile) nobody's 'reason' is better...than another's . Cheers!

 

Like they say..and are probably right...lol..."Silence is Golden!" Back slaps!

 

Joe

Edited April 21, 2018 by YamahaParExcellence

[YamahaParExcellence]

Yamster,,,,, I have chased a fair number of front wheels in my season,,, both on and off road - on everything from bicycles with lawn mower engines taped in their frames to some of the worlds fastest production motorcycles and I gotta say, that thru all that chasing of the front wheel,,, bar none,,, and discovered totally by accident - the Yamaha MK1 1st Gen Ventures fit me the best... And that being so with not add ons needed = right off the showroom floor. Simply fold the bars back and down, put a sleeping bag, one of kids or Tippy on behind me to lean back on and INSTANTLY - 12 to 16 hour ride days for both of us - no monkey butt - no stiff shoulders - no cramp legs = just open road touring for days on end.. Straight up and from the hip? For real,,, over a million miles of that..

Now that said,,, please take a minute and go back to post 9 of this thread, you will see the opening picture of one of our video clips. Dont press play but stare for a second at that pic of Tip and I on that old bike.. Notice the distances and angles of our body parts connecting with the scoot, pay particular attention to my foot/leg/arm/hand/shoulder/neck positons in relationship to the bikes contact points... Now try to hold that image, go back to post 3 of this thread and overlay that same image onto the last picture of me sitting on that new Wing. You and others might not see what I see but what I see explains to me why I instantly felt some very special with the Wing... I cant say much more beyond that because,unlike the new Venture, I have not ridden one but someday very soon I/we plan to conclude that part of forming our personal opinions of the new Wings fit for us too... IMHO,,,that is the only way to really know = gotta spin the wheels to know how she feels...

 

Very insightful commentary, Puc. So..I did look at both you and your wife aboard that bike...and I did look at you aboard the 2018.

 

With my obvious (a blind man would see it...) bias towards the 2018 Wing...(that must be acknowledged...to be fair...) I still think you and your wife, LOOK like you fit that bike as a riding team. I'm really trying NOT to be biased...but I still feel that in comparing the two pictures, it isn't same/same. Just my personal take. The bike (the 18) seems to diminish with you above it, in the saddle. The fairing...the width of the cockpit...etc.

 

I'd like to read Condor's take ...with you also charging him with the vis 'a vis two picture aspect. That would be an interesting viewpoint...on what he thinks, how you see yourself upon the new Wing. Very interesting thread, indeed!

 

Joe