Acts like a fuel problem

[venturerider09]

I'm helping a friend with his 2006 RSTD and his problem is that the bike is running down the road great, and suddenly dies like he ran out of fuel. Let it sit for a few minutes and it'll usually fire right up, sometimes running like a bat out of hell and sometimes running a little sluggish. I owned an '09 RSV and started experiencing similar issues at about 50K while on the road, it was towed to a dealer and they replaced the fuel pump. No more problems (until some dumb*** ran me off the road and the bike got totaled, another story for another time). Using that info, I told him he needed a new pump which he ordered. Easy install, new filter at the same time (not as easy as the pump), and it fired right up. Ran for about 1/2 hour and died, exact same problem. In researching posts on this forum, it seems that the ignition switch is another source of problem. So the reason for my post is A) how do I test the ignition switch to see if that's his problem, B) is there an easy by-pass to get around this switch issue (without replacing the switch) and C) is it possible to just wire the pump to the battery (using a relay excited by a wire powered from the ignition) and will this work? His funds are extremely limited (retired/disabled) so any help is much appreciated.

 

Gabby

[Freebird]

We have a member who sells a bypass for the ignition. Here is a link to one of his ads in the Classifieds but that is not the actual bypass, you will need to contact him to get the one for what you need.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/photopost/showproduct.php?product=697&title=rsv-ignition-by-pass-relay&cat=8

 

The fuel pump is a real possibility but it is also possible that the gas tank vent is plugged up. When it dies, has he tried opening the gas cap and seeing if there is a vacuum on the tank?

[videoarizona]

I'm helping a friend with his 2006 RSTD and his problem is that the bike is running down the road great, and suddenly dies like he ran out of fuel. Let it sit for a few minutes and it'll usually fire right up, sometimes running like a bat out of hell and sometimes running a little sluggish. I owned an '09 RSV and started experiencing similar issues at about 50K while on the road, it was towed to a dealer and they replaced the fuel pump. No more problems (until some dumb*** ran me off the road and the bike got totaled, another story for another time). Using that info, I told him he needed a new pump which he ordered. Easy install, new filter at the same time (not as easy as the pump), and it fired right up. Ran for about 1/2 hour and died, exact same problem. In researching posts on this forum, it seems that the ignition switch is another source of problem. So the reason for my post is A) how do I test the ignition switch to see if that's his problem, B) is there an easy by-pass to get around this switch issue (without replacing the switch) and C) is it possible to just wire the pump to the battery (using a relay excited by a wire powered from the ignition) and will this work? His funds are extremely limited (retired/disabled) so any help is much appreciated.

 

Gabby

 

Gabby, can't help you in ignition switch testing. It would be possible to temporarily wire the fuel pump directly to the battery as you suggested, but you would lose the safety features built in to bike.

 

First, I would suggest you check the gas tank and see if the vent is plugged. When it does again, take off gas cap. If a vacuum is present (you will hear the whoosh of air) then the tank vent is plugged. The vent and the fuel pump are the two issues I'm aware of as possible issues....

[venturerider09]

We have a member who sells a bypass for the ignition. Here is a link to one of his ads in the Classifieds but that is not the actual bypass, you will need to contact him to get the one for what you need.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/photopost/showproduct.php?product=697&title=rsv-ignition-by-pass-relay&cat=8

 

The fuel pump is a real possibility but it is also possible that the gas tank vent is plugged up. When it dies, has he tried opening the gas cap and seeing if there is a vacuum on the tank?

I've pulled the tank to flushed it out and check the vent, pulled the petcock to make sure it was clear of any debris, changed the fuel filter and all of the fuel lines. The last time it died, when I go there with the trailer to get him I pulled out the voltmeter before doing anything and found 12.04 volts to the pump, no clicking noise (new pump, cheap Chinese knock-off but that's what he ordered). Punched the starter and it fired up, stuttering at first then smoothed out and ran great (I think he may have flooded it trying to start it again). I've ordered, and just received, a used factory Mitsubishi pump from Pinwall Cycles to see if that solves the problem. If it doesn't, I need to go a different direction. My thought is to wire the fuel pump as described, using a relay, and run the bike for a few days. If it doesn't have any issues, then my thinking is that I'll need to replace or bypass the switch. Am I thinking in the right direction or just banging my head against the wall?

[venturerider09]

Gabby, can't help you in ignition switch testing. It would be possible to temporarily wire the fuel pump directly to the battery as you suggested, but you would lose the safety features built in to bike.

 

First, I would suggest you check the gas tank and see if the vent is plugged. When it does again, take off gas cap. If a vacuum is present (you will hear the whoosh of air) then the tank vent is plugged. The vent and the fuel pump are the two issues I'm aware of as possible issues....

Thanks, yes. The vent hose has been checked for obstruction, flushed the tank and checked the petcock for debris, all good. Going to replace the fuel pump again with a used factory pump and try it again. If it has the same issue, I'm thinking I'll wire the pump directly, with the relay, and try again. The local dealer is absolutely no help, partly because they are more interested is selling him a new bike rather than fix one that's 12 years old and partly because they're idiots and have no idea what the problem is. They've sent him out twice saying there's nothing wrong, only to have it die again on the way home (the first time before he even got out of their parking lot). One thing at a time I suppose.

[videoarizona]

I've pulled the tank to flushed it out and check the vent, pulled the petcock to make sure it was clear of any debris, changed the fuel filter and all of the fuel lines. The last time it died, when I go there with the trailer to get him I pulled out the voltmeter before doing anything and found 12.04 volts to the pump, no clicking noise (new pump, cheap Chinese knock-off but that's what he ordered). Punched the starter and it fired up, stuttering at first then smoothed out and ran great (I think he may have flooded it trying to start it again). I've ordered, and just received, a used factory Mitsubishi pump from Pinwall Cycles to see if that solves the problem. If it doesn't, I need to go a different direction. My thought is to wire the fuel pump as described, using a relay, and run the bike for a few days. If it doesn't have any issues, then my thinking is that I'll need to replace or bypass the switch. Am I thinking in the right direction or just banging my head against the wall?

 

 

I see the Boss beat me to the response! But yes, the ignition switch could be heating up. Or is corroded or dirty.

Intermittants of any type are not easy to deal with.... Just don't shotgun it. One thing at a time which sounds like what you are doing.

Good luck...

 

Good idea on another fuel pump. The points on the Chinese units are the weak part. In fact, the points on all of the fuel pumps in this generation of v4's are weak. My RSV included.

I did the ignition bypass on my RSV which was a known issue. Not many complaints about RSTDs..... But worth a good hard look.

Edited April 7, 2018 by videoarizona
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[venturerider09]

I see the Boss beat me to the response! But yes, the ignition switch could be heating up. Or is corroded or dirty.

Intermittants of any type are not easy to deal with.... Just don't shotgun it. One thing at a time which sounds like what you are doing.

Good luck...

 

Good idea on another fuel pump. The points on the Chinese units are the weak part. In fact, the points on all of the fuel pumps in this generation of v4's are weak. My RSV included.

I did the ignition bypass on my RSV which was a known issue. Not many complaints about RSTDs..... But worth a good hard look.

Is the ignition bypass difficult? When the switch is removed, is the bad contact obvious or is it something that still needs to be tested? Did you use the bypass harness available from another member through this forum? A lot of questions, I know and I apologize, I just want to do right by my friend. I have good mechanical skills and a factory manual, I've pretty much always done all my own work. If the switch is bad, I've located another one (used) for $130 (again, trying to save him money) that is hopefully a good unit.

[djh3]

I make the by pass relay for the 2nd gen venture. They are plug and play, it goes sort of in between the bike harness and the OEM ignition switch. If your handy you can take the OEM switch apart and clean the contacts up, install my relay and more than likely never have an issue on that side again. The OEM type fuel pumps are trouble waiting to happen, they have points in them and get burned or corroded. Some have replaced them and repaired the pump. My 09 did what sounds like the same thing, one time be riding down road all is well. 10 min later blaaah and dead on side of road, wait 10 min I guess the pump cooled down and it may be find the rest of day. I replaced mine with a Mr Gasket solid state pump. see here http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?86265-Mr-Gasket-Fuel-Pump-Conversion

[venturerider09]

I make the by pass relay for the 2nd gen venture. They are plug and play, it goes sort of in between the bike harness and the OEM ignition switch. If your handy you can take the OEM switch apart and clean the contacts up, install my relay and more than likely never have an issue on that side again. The OEM type fuel pumps are trouble waiting to happen, they have points in them and get burned or corroded. Some have replaced them and repaired the pump. My 09 did what sounds like the same thing, one time be riding down road all is well. 10 min later blaaah and dead on side of road, wait 10 min I guess the pump cooled down and it may be find the rest of day. I replaced mine with a Mr Gasket solid state pump. see here http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?86265-Mr-Gasket-Fuel-Pump-Conversion

Sweet! He is bringing the bike back to me tomorrow to install the used pump, I've read about the points and will take the cover off in the morning to check them and clean them up in the morning if needed before I install it. So correct me if I'm wrong: this issue with the switch mostly effects the power to the fuel pump? Or does it also control the power to the ignition control, coils, etc.? The reason I ask is if I bypass the switch and wire the pump to the battery (through a relay) to verify it's operation and the switch does have a problem, will it kill power to the ignition?

 

Last question for tonight: how much is the bypass harness and how soon can I get one shipped if he wants to order it? Thanks mucho for all the help and advice.

 

Gabby

[MiCarl]

An RSTD won't suddenly die from a fuel problem. It'll hesitate, lose power, backfire etc.

 

His problem sounds electrical/ignition.

[djh3]

@venturerider09 I sent you an e-mail.

[venturerider09]

An RSTD won't suddenly die from a fuel problem. It'll hesitate, lose power, backfire etc.

 

His problem sounds electrical/ignition.

Agreed, it is in fact suffering from both problems. One at a time......

[venturerider09]

venturerider09 I sent you an e-mail.

I keep checking but haven't received anything.

[djh3]

OK then look for PM here. I sent you my e-mail address.

[venturerider09]

I want to thank everyone that offered help and advice with this problem. Like I said in the original post, I was trying to get the bike back on the road for a retired/disabled friend who is financially strapped right now and it's his only transportation. With the assistance of the great folks on this forum, and the technical information in the library of this forum, I was able to get him back on the road for less that $75 including the cost of a used fuel pump. Thanks again, just goes to prove my point when I say true bikers are always willing to help one another. Ride safe all....

 

Gabby