got the 86 ruuning.lots of questions

[cruiserlover]

My original and now eventual goal will be getting my 83 running.I have another 83 parts bike for and endless supply.But I found a really nice looking 86 all intact a day later.I have a thread here about a fuse panel or other problem in regard to it.It has 84,000 miles on it and the body work was in great shape till I dropped it.I am going to have to replace some fairing pieces now.I really wanted to get it going.The deceased owners relatives had installed a fuse box with minifuses.I blew the main fuse by doing something stupid.I replaced the blown glass fuse with an inline mini 40 amp fuse.All the lights worked,dash,head,tail,horn,start button.It cranked real slow.I bought a brand new battery and its fully charged.I put it in the bike and it cranked real slow.For grins I put it in the 83 and it turned over way faster.That 83 just wont start for some reason.I put it back in the 86.Hooked my truck battery to it.Just the battery.No truck was running.It still cranked slowly but all the sudden it started.It had sat apparently since 2013.Maybe it was running more recently,no one knows for sure. The tag says 2013. Lots of smoking, running rough, on full choke.After several minutes I tried turning the choke off.It would definitely try to die.I know I have to do the dreaded carb clean.Plus the tank seemed empty when i started messing with the bike so i put about 1 1/2 gallons of new gas in it.Plus I changed the oil.I didnt have a new filter.But it is a spin on.I bought an expensive spinon k and n and put it on.The clutch master cylinder I know has to be dry.Of course some fool stripped out the head of one of the screws. I dread trying to get that out. So, I know it runs, but even hooked to my truck battery it cranks slow till it starts.I can unhook the jumper cables and it keeps running.Without the truck help it just cranks too slow.I suspect I will need to replace the starter.The one off the 83 should work,right? I have to read up in the manual how to remove it.

 

Here is the bigger problem.now none of my dash lights work,no headlight,neutral light, nothing.However the ignition and start circuits are ok or it wouldnt start and run.I assume one of the fuses in the new panel blew. Not sure why.But I know it runs now.Advice on all these issues will be greatly appreciated. The start button works,the horn doesnt now. One last question, does it make any difference if you kill the motor with the key or the killswitch? I have heard arguments both ways.Thanks for your help.

[Flyinfool]

Getting it started is a big part of the battle. Add a can of Berrymans or Seafoam to the gas tank and get it running again with that nice strong mix running thru the carbs and then let it sit overnight. Keep doing that and playing with trying to get the choke off to make those cleaners go to all parts of the carbs. You may end up having to shotgun them to get them opened up enough for the treated gas to get there and do its magic. If none of that works then the only option left is to pull the carbs and manually clean and rebuild them.

 

As for the electrical, start by grabbing your 12V test light and check each fuse for power on BOTH sides of each fuse. Check for power at the items that are not working. If they have power, then connect a temp ground wire from the non working item direct to the battery negative to see if it is a ground issue.

 

Whether you shut it down with the key or the kill switch is 100% personal preference. That is why there are arguments both ways. I just does not matter.

[cruiserlover]

Getting it started is a big part of the battle. Add a can of Berrymans or Seafoam to the gas tank and get it running again with that nice strong mix running thru the carbs and then let it sit overnight. Keep doing that and playing with trying to get the choke off to make those cleaners go to all parts of the carbs. You may end up having to shotgun them to get them opened up enough for the treated gas to get there and do its magic. If none of that works then the only option left is to pull the carbs and manually clean and rebuild them.

 

As for the electrical, start by grabbing your 12V test light and check each fuse for power on BOTH sides of each fuse. Check for power at the items that are not working. If they have power, then connect a temp ground wire from the non working item direct to the battery negative to see if it is a ground issue.

 

Whether you shut it down with the key or the kill switch is 100% personal preference. That is why there are arguments both ways. I just does not matter.

Great information.Thanks so much.I appreciate it.

[videoarizona]

Thinking out loud....

 

The starter may not be bad. Check ground and power lead...by check I mean take off the connections, clean and put back on. If that doesn't help then take starter off and take it apart. There is a thread around here, I think by cowpuc, describing how to clean the interior parts of the starter. They do get gummed up with brush dust and stuff....If that doesn't work then borrow a starter and try it or buy another.

 

If the tank sitting overnight doesn't work....try taking off the overflow hose at each carb, put the little red tube in the nozzle of your favorite carb cleaner and spray up into the overflow and into the bowl. Get a good shot in there. Let it sit for at least an hour. Carb cleaner (or equivalent) is the only stuff that will clean up hard deposits. That should get into the main body of the carb and help. Seafoam and such will help keep the system clean after you get the old, hard deposits out.

 

Keep an eye on the fuel filter. If the bad gas has been in tank for a long time, the filter may get clogged up.

 

I always use the kill switch. It's a habit for me and always has been. It makes no difference to the bike. But to me, the starting procedure and shut down procedure are rote. I don't want to start with kickstand down or leave gas on with the 2nd gen and risk engine issues. So I have always done things the same way. There is a reason the military gets you to do things over and over. And in this case, I agree.

 

As far as dash lights and such. Suggest you clean up the fuse area. Even if you keep the old fuses (as I have), if you clean up the connections, then you know they are good. The dash comes out easily and you can check bulbs on the bench. While there, lube the speedo cable....and clean the dash connectors.

The rest is nothing more than tracing hot and ground leads until you find a corroded or bad connection and making repair.

 

Keep us posted...oh take pics!

Edited April 2, 2018 by videoarizona
add

[cruiserlover]

awesome information arizona.I was in the navy btw.hospital corpsman 69-73.We did the same thing over and over, but we got perfection that way.

[BlueSky]

The slow starting can be helped by cleaning up the starter and connections, maybe adding an additional internal ground and larger cables, but the real problem is that the starters through 1990 were two brush weak starters. The real fix is to buy a 4 brush starter for a 91 or newer V4 and replace the 2 brush.

[Flyinfool]

On my 88 it always turns over slow, but has never had an issue starting. I still have my original 2 brush starter. 7 or 8 years ago I did pull the starter, open it up and clean all the carbon dust out of it and did the Dingy ground wire mod, and then did the conversion to the #4 AWG welding cables. It still turns a bit slow but always starts right up. I think the 2 brush motor was designed to turn at a lower RPM than the 4 brush. If this starter ever dies I will replace with a 4 brush for sure, But I am not going to replace a starter that always gets the job done just for the fun of it. Plus it is a PITA to get to. I did the mods to mine because I was already in there for another unrelated reason.

 

I am not one that believes in throwing money at a problem and hope to hit it. I will spend a lot more time to be as sure as possible of what the real problem is, and then have to spend and fix just one time.

[cruiserlover]

I am not one that believes in throwing money at a problem and hope to hit it. I will spend a lot more time to be as sure as possible of what the real problem is, and then have to spend and fix just one time. Jeff Borowski . . 88 Venture standard

 

I agree also. The basic approach has been given in all the advice. I really dont intend buying another starter except as a last resort.i am sure without even looking my cables could stand replacing, or at least at a minimum cleaning and securing their attachments.Taking the starter off to clean the inside is not something i want to do.If i remove the starter I am going to replace it.Putting in new brushes, creating an additional ground is doable, but the bike has 84,000 miles.I prefer that over one that has 10,000 in 32 years.if its the original starter it is deservedly worn out.No way to tell unless some sticker has a manufacture date on it.When I owned my first venture it was an 83.Another wellknown venture site usually went to worst case scenario and would have me doing major dismantling and parts replacement as advice. I did not follow their advice but that was the only place to ask at the time.

[cruiserlover]

The slow starting can be helped by cleaning up the starter and connections, maybe adding an additional internal ground and larger cables, but the real problem is that the starters through 1990 were two brush weak starters. The real fix is to buy a 4 brush starter for a 91 or newer V4 and replace the 2 brush.

if i take the starter off because new cables dont do the trick I will buy a 4 brush.probably $150 but some things are not optional. When I had my first venture about10 years ago I needed a new thermostat.The dealer said ok,$70. I said wow, thats high.His reply was be glad it isnt a goldwing, it would be twice that.So I went to napa.I got a girl salesperson.I thought oh no.I asked her if she knew of any car thermostat that might match it.In 5 minutes she came back with a perfect match for some kind of nissan.$2.50.

[bongobobny]

If you do decide on swapping your starter motor to a 4 brush, and 2nd Gen starter is a direct bolt on! You should be able to find one on eBay for well under $100, like in the neighborhood or around $70.

[BlueSky]

I am not one that believes in throwing money at a problem and hope to hit it. I will spend a lot more time to be as sure as possible of what the real problem is, and then have to spend and fix just one time. Jeff Borowski . . 88 Venture standard

 

I agree also. The basic approach has been given in all the advice. I really dont intend buying another starter except as a last resort.i am sure without even looking my cables could stand replacing, or at least at a minimum cleaning and securing their attachments.Taking the starter off to clean the inside is not something i want to do.If i remove the starter I am going to replace it.Putting in new brushes, creating an additional ground is doable, but the bike has 84,000 miles.I prefer that over one that has 10,000 in 32 years.if its the original starter it is deservedly worn out.No way to tell unless some sticker has a manufacture date on it.When I owned my first venture it was an 83.Another wellknown venture site usually went to worst case scenario and would have me doing major dismantling and parts replacement as advice. I did not follow their advice but that was the only place to ask at the time.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-yamaha-xvz1300-royal-starter-motor/253534332810?hash=item3b07d2e78a:g:Wv4AAOSwblZZLkdz

[cruiserlover]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-yamaha-xvz1300-royal-starter-motor/253534332810?hash=item3b07d2e78a:g:Wv4AAOSwblZZLkdz

 

thanks for the link.It even has 6 month protection for $6.49.once I know for sure the starter is the problem i most definitely will go the route you gave me a idea about.That is not a second gen venture, its a 96 royal str.Did all that era have 4 brush starters?

[cruiserlover]

Great news for me pretty much! I left the "hot" battery on the charger for over 24 hours.I put it back in last night and voila.The lights all came back on, the motor turned over real well, pretty fast rpms.I put the choke on and it started.I let it idle several minutes.I was so happy.I gradually got it to run with the choke off and giving it a little throttle. I turned it off, ran to autozone,put some seafoam in, restrarted the bike.After a few more minutes the bike ran better and better.But everything but the tailight quit again.I never heard the fan come on and the motor started smoking a little so i turned it off.I only had distilled water in the radiator.I will put premixed 50/50 in the radiator tomorrow.I see there is a drainplug in the manual. I am so glad i didnt start pulling and replacing parts.The battery place had told me they had charged the battery since it was over 12 hours since I ordered it online.They lied. I will have to rig a toggle switch to make the fan come on.I need to figure that out and why the neutral light,horn, and headlight are not right.The headlight hi and low worked great till I left and came back.All input appreciated.

[videoarizona]

Great news for me pretty much! I left the "hot" battery on the charger for over 24 hours.I put it back in last night and voila.The lights all came back on, the motor turned over real well, pretty fast rpms.I put the choke on and it started.I let it idle several minutes.I was so happy.I gradually got it to run with the choke off and giving it a little throttle. I turned it off, ran to autozone,put some seafoam in, restrarted the bike.After a few more minutes the bike ran better and better.But everything but the tailight quit again.I never heard the fan come on and the motor started smoking a little so i turned it off.I only had distilled water in the radiator.I will put premixed 50/50 in the radiator tomorrow.I see there is a drainplug in the manual. I am so glad i didnt start pulling and replacing parts.The battery place had told me they had charged the battery since it was over 12 hours since I ordered it online.They lied. I will have to rig a toggle switch to make the fan come on.I need to figure that out and why the neutral light,horn, and headlight are not right.The headlight hi and low worked great till I left and came back.All input appreciated.

 

Ideas:

Check the start switch.. Make sure it pops all the way out. Lights come on only when switch is released at end of travel. Dirty or corrosion. WD40 is a temp fix.

Check emergency stop switch on right handlebar. Wiggle it...dirty or corrosion.

Check ignition switch....wiggle it when running and see if lights come back. Usually not a problem on a1st gen.

Follow diagnostic procedure in Manual to check fan switch... Right side above motor.

Radiator drain plug at bottom.... Do not overtighten!!

[cruiserlover]

Ideas:

Check the start switch.. Make sure it pops all the way out. Lights come on only when switch is released at end of travel. Dirty or corrosion. WD40 is a temp fix.

Check emergency stop switch on right handlebar. Wiggle it...dirty or corrosion.

Check ignition switch....wiggle it when running and see if lights come back. Usually not a problem on a1st gen.

Follow diagnostic procedure in Manual to check fan switch... Right side above motor.

Radiator drain plug at bottom.... Do not overtighten!!

Thanks Arizona.Will do.So far this has been a good $200 investment

[cruiserlover]

well,now it wont start.I tried going across the old solenoid.It just started to smolder but the motor did move.I took the one off the old 83.I hit the start button and nothing.I shorted across this solenoid and the motor turned over real fast,way plenty to start.But something between the start button and the solenoid isnt corrected right.The solenoid off the 83 I connected to the 86 just like it was.The fact the solenoid made the motor turn over and the starter spun fast is good.But I dont know what is up now.Plus after i bridged the posts of the solenoid again after giving up now the bike just drags,like the battery is dead or the starter drags.But I know both the starter and solenoid and battery are hot.I give up.I had it running good yesterday.

[cruiserlover]

i didnt have any wd 40.I sprayed a little pb blaster around the start button.That possibly screwed everything up.On the 83 it almost starts.It turns over real fast.I take the hose loose from the fuel pump and the hose is connected to the fuel filter and runs out a lot.The bike is probably on reserve.But the stopcock lever is broken off,no way to turn it back to off position.Can the fuel be from the fuel filter and to the fuel pump and the filter be clogged? I am thinking no.Maybe the fuel pump.The former owner said it wasnt.He said he bought a used tci,put it on, it ran briefly then quit.I am just about done with all this.

[Flyinfool]

When You have a bunch of issues it is always best to pick one and solve it them move on to the next one, If you try to fix them all at once you will just end up running in circles and make yourself crazy. If the issues happen to be related then fixing the one may also fix others.

 

I would start with the cranking issue, partly because it is easy and partly because It is hard to test anything else if it wont even crank.

Make sure the battery stays charged thru all of this, It does not take a lot of cranking to drain the battery.

Get out your volt meter.

set it on the range closest to 12V.

Connect the red lead to the battery positive post, connect the black lead to the positive wire on the starter. try to start it. The meter should read very close to 0 volts while it is cranking. anything over 1 volt means that there is a bad connection between the starter and the battery. You can move the meter leads to test each connection point. Even if they look clean, clean them anyhow. it does not take much to make a bad connection.

If the positive side looks good. then do the same on the negative side, start with one meter lead on the starter motor case and the other on the negative battery post.

 

IF the solenoid is not engaging to crank the engine the connect a jumper from the terminal with the small wire on the solenoid to battery negative. this should engage the solenoid if it does not then we have a completely different direction to head.

 

If at any time thru the testing, if it should start and run, put the volt meter across the battery terminals, if the charging circuit is working correctly it should be real close to 14V

[cruiserlover]

When You have a bunch of issues it is always best to pick one and solve it them move on to the next one, If you try to fix them all at once you will just end up running in circles and make yourself crazy. If the issues happen to be related then fixing the one may also fix others.

 

I would start with the cranking issue, partly because it is easy and partly because It is hard to test anything else if it wont even crank.

Make sure the battery stays charged thru all of this, It does not take a lot of cranking to drain the battery.

Get out your volt meter.

set it on the range closest to 12V.

Connect the red lead to the battery positive post, connect the black lead to the positive wire on the starter. try to start it. The meter should read very close to 0 volts while it is cranking. anything over 1 volt means that there is a bad connection between the starter and the battery. You can move the meter leads to test each connection point. Even if they look clean, clean them anyhow. it does not take much to make a bad connection.

If the positive side looks good. then do the same on the negative side, start with one meter lead on the starter motor case and the other on the negative battery post.

 

IF the solenoid is not engaging to crank the engine the connect a jumper from the terminal with the small wire on the solenoid to battery negative. this should engage the solenoid if it does not then we have a completely different direction to head.

 

If at any time thru the testing, if it should start and run, put the volt meter across the battery terminals, if the charging circuit is working correctly it should be real close to 14V

Right about jumping around.The 86 was running pretty good yesterday.Today before i touched a thing the start button did nothing.I will put the battery back on the charger.The battery flashing light comes on now because i found a 15 amp fuse that had blown.Perhaps when I tried going across the poles of the starter.when you say small wire on the starter to the battery negative post-do you mean the blue white red white? Those are switch on hot,correct? You mean the solenoid negative to the battery negative.The other post on the solenoid does come from the negative side of the battery it appears.I am working the next few days.I am glad.It was perfect yesterday, all I did was go to bed and now it doesnt work.Perhaps the unconnected probe is draining the battery? Thanks so much for yur input.

[cruiserlover]

hey, ff, guess what? I only had to walk 10 feet from the solenoid donor bike to the 86 and still I connected up the solenoid backwards.I switched the wires and now the start button works.The battery is about dead though.Since the new battery has no probe connection I have been told to put a resistor.I bought some tiny 4 ohm resistors.They have real thin wire coming from either end.So one end solders to the probe end and the other has to go under a fuse spot.All the fuses are ignition switch on hot correct? So If I put the wire in any fuse hole, say 5 or 10 amp it should fool the sensor,am I right? Now I have to get the ruined screw out of the clutch master cylinder cover so i can fill and bleed that system. I bought some tiny easy outs.Last time I tried drilling out one of those screws i bored completely through the chamber.I have 2 others if I do. Wish me luck FF.

[RDawson]

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?489-Battery-Warning-Bypass

 

Here is a link to bypass the probe. Make sure you use the correct resistor. Bad things happen if you don't.

[cruiserlover]

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?489-Battery-Warning-Bypass

 

Here is a link to bypass the probe. Make sure you use the correct resistor. Bad things happen if you don't.

 

I saw this before.great writeup.You said the bike could still be ridden without doing all that? I thought the probe being unused would run the battery down.Also I dont have glass fuses.The previous guy replaced them with minifuses.Perhaps put the small wire down inside the fuse prong female slot somewhere and push the fuse down into it.I cant tell if this new fuse box has one for accessories.I guess use one of the 5 amp or 10 amp slots? Thanks a bunch.

[RDawson]

No it won't run the battery down. There's no power to the probe, it measured voltage when plugged into the battery. It's just annoying having a light on when riding. I followed the same write up when I did mine several years ago.

[cruiserlover]

No it won't run the battery down. There's no power to the probe, it measured voltage when plugged into the battery. It's just annoying having a light on when riding. I followed the same write up when I did mine several years ago.

 

well then so be it.I can live with the light.Everytime i touch wiring I do something stupid

[Flyinfool]

hey, ff, guess what? I only had to walk 10 feet from the solenoid donor bike to the 86 and still I connected up the solenoid backwards.I switched the wires and now the start button works.The battery is about dead though.Since the new battery has no probe connection I have been told to put a resistor.I bought some tiny 4 ohm resistors.They have real thin wire coming from either end.So one end solders to the probe end and the other has to go under a fuse spot.All the fuses are ignition switch on hot correct? So If I put the wire in any fuse hole, say 5 or 10 amp it should fool the sensor,am I right? Now I have to get the ruined screw out of the clutch master cylinder cover so i can fill and bleed that system. I bought some tiny easy outs.Last time I tried drilling out one of those screws i bored completely through the chamber.I have 2 others if I do. Wish me luck FF.

 

Connecting the solenoid backwards will make it not work, it will also make my workaround not work.

 

4 ohms will not do it, You need around 2,000 ohms otherly known as 2K ohm resistors. You want 1/4 Watt or more for the size of the resistors.

One end connects to the white/red wire that went to the probe and the other end of the resistor can be connected to any thing that turns off with the key.

 

If you are going to stick the resistor lead into a fuse socket make sure it is on the protected side of the fuse.

 

No, not all fuses are hot only with the key some are hot all the time and some are only hot in ACCy position.

 

Once the cover is off of the MC you can usually grab the remains of the screw with a vice grip and turn it out, unless you drilled the head off and still kept going. When you drill for the easy out, use a left hand drill bit, odds are that the act of drilling with a left hand bit usually makes the screw come flying out of the hole on its own.