Hold your breath I'm going in.....

[Flyinfool]

Hold your breath I'm going in.....

I mean that both figuratively and literally.

Tonight I start breaking the concrete floor in the basement to track down and hopefully be able to repair a sewer pipe break. Somehow I just know this is going to turn into a really crappy job.

 

I think I know where the pipe is broken based on how far I could get a snake to go before it ran into impenetrable dirt, clay, and stones. A drain camera was no help either. I have already used a concrete saw to cut about half way thru the concrete and am hoping that the sledge will leave me a fairly clean edge. The basement ceiling is not high enough to get in a full swing so if I can not get enough to break it then I will have to go rent a demolition hammer. Once I get thru the floor then I get to dig down thru what will most likely be some nasty mud till I find the pipes. Then I get to try to cut 100 year old clay AND cast iron pipes without shattering them so I can splice in new PVC. Then I have to find a place to dispose of the dirt and broken cement and pipes. I will use gravel around the new pips like there is supposed to be.

 

The current sewer pipe is 6 inch clay, there is 4 inch cast iron feeding into that below the floor. My plan is to do all replacements with 4 inch PVC and just join that to the 6" clay with one of those rubber boots. Is there a reason that I might want/need to keep the under floor part 6" and then transition to the 4" as soon as it goes above grade like it is now. Most houses have 4" sewer all the way to the street. I could only push the power snake about 5 feet into the clean out, so the break starts within 3 feet of the 90° elbow that goes from the vertical to the horizontal.

 

I called a couple of plumbers and got estimates of $3,000-8,000, I am looking at $400-500 in parts to do it myself. Me being both cheap and poor and still able bodied, means that I have to at least try this on my own. I may very well get in there and find it is way above my pay grade and have to still call someone in. At least I will have saved some of there precious time buy already having a hole in the floor and most of the dirt gone. Doing it myself I do not have to pour the new cement right away, I can wait till spring or summer to get to that part. A pro will want to do it right away.

 

My biggest fear is that once I get in there I will find that there is a lot more pipe in pretty bad shape beyond the cave in that I know of. I could end up trenching across 50 feet of basement floor and then having someone come in and dig a trench to the middle of the road in front of the house, in whic case this job will end up well into the 5 figure price range by the time I also pay for road repairs, sidewalk repair and yard repair.

 

I have never done anything like this before, any tips would be helpful, if not wish me luck.

 

This will be a scary weekend. It has to be working by Monday night when Erika starts her colonoscopy prep......

[BlueSky]

Man! I feel for you! That sounds like a really tough, (crappy) job. I think I would just bite the bullet and call a pro to git-er-done. Time is something to consider too. How long will it be before you can use your home again?

[Yammer Dan]

Better git it in gear!! I cain't hold my breath like I used too!!! Sounds like you got a good idea of where you are going just keep fingers crossed for condition of pipes under and hope for simple break!!!

[RDawson]

I have used cutoff wheels on a grinder to cut cast pipe cleanly and easily in the past. There are also abrasive reciprocating saw blades that do a decent job to cut it without breaking it.

[Flyinfool]

Man! I feel for you! That sounds like a really tough, (crappy) job. I think I would just bite the bullet and call a pro to git-er-done. Time is something to consider too. How long will it be before you can use your home again?

 

Ummmmm.......... I have bushes in the back yard..........

[Zzyzx]

Good Luck!!!

 

[cowpuc]

The first thing I would do would be something along the line of seeing if I could route a new 4" pvc path across the basement without digging up the floor.. Sometimes it's best to let sleeping dogs lie and just redo/rethink the whole scheme of things IMHO.

[cowpuc]

Ummmmm.......... I have bushes in the back yard..........

 

I must be the only one who noticed that the snow this year had a slight tinge of yellow to it...

[WildBill1]

Might as well go ahead and rent a Port-A-Jon. I can already see a lot of surprises in the coming week good luck.

[Dragonslayer]

Hold your breath I'm going in.....

I mean that both figuratively and literally.

Tonight I start breaking the concrete floor in the basement to track down and hopefully be able to repair a sewer pipe break. Somehow I just know this is going to turn into a really crappy job.

 

I think I know where the pipe is broken based on how far I could get a snake to go before it ran into impenetrable dirt, clay, and stones. A drain camera was no help either. I have already used a concrete saw to cut about half way thru the concrete and am hoping that the sledge will leave me a fairly clean edge. The basement ceiling is not high enough to get in a full swing so if I can not get enough to break it then I will have to go rent a demolition hammer. Once I get thru the floor then I get to dig down thru what will most likely be some nasty mud till I find the pipes. Then I get to try to cut 100 year old clay AND cast iron pipes without shattering them so I can splice in new PVC. Then I have to find a place to dispose of the dirt and broken cement and pipes. I will use gravel around the new pips like there is supposed to be.

 

The current sewer pipe is 6 inch clay, there is 4 inch cast iron feeding into that below the floor. My plan is to do all replacements with 4 inch PVC and just join that to the 6" clay with one of those rubber boots. Is there a reason that I might want/need to keep the under floor part 6" and then transition to the 4" as soon as it goes above grade like it is now. Most houses have 4" sewer all the way to the street. I could only push the power snake about 5 feet into the clean out, so the break starts within 3 feet of the 90° elbow that goes from the vertical to the horizontal.

 

I called a couple of plumbers and got estimates of $3,000-8,000, I am looking at $400-500 in parts to do it myself. Me being both cheap and poor and still able bodied, means that I have to at least try this on my own. I may very well get in there and find it is way above my pay grade and have to still call someone in. At least I will have saved some of there precious time buy already having a hole in the floor and most of the dirt gone. Doing it myself I do not have to pour the new cement right away, I can wait till spring or summer to get to that part. A pro will want to do it right away.

 

My biggest fear is that once I get in there I will find that there is a lot more pipe in pretty bad shape beyond the cave in that I know of. I could end up trenching across 50 feet of basement floor and then having someone come in and dig a trench to the middle of the road in front of the house, in whic case this job will end up well into the 5 figure price range by the time I also pay for road repairs, sidewalk repair and yard repair.

 

I have never done anything like this before, any tips would be helpful, if not wish me luck.

 

This will be a scary weekend. It has to be working by Monday night when Erika starts her colonoscopy prep......

That colonops prep is what I'd be worried about the most. It sounds like you thought the rest of this project thru. If time does not work out on your side the next thing I would suggest is a motel room with good plumbing at least until the coloops is over with.

[cowpuc]

Hey Jeff,, I had to break thru some concrete a while back and priced out renting a jack hammer.. I found out that I could buy a demolision hammer from HF cheaper than I could rent a jack hammer, went and bought it and it worked AWESOME plus I got to keep it for future use!! Worked a whole lot faster than a sledge hammer PLUS it was a lot more fun to operate!!!

[Marcarl]

A thought crossing my mind would be to shove a 4" inside the good part of the 6" if that works. That might save future problems and the outside digging. Don't know if that would work though, but if it does, problems are solved for now.

[cecdoo]

I would definetly rent an electric pavement breaker, they do a great job with half the effort. Get a couple extra chisels, a point, a chisel and a spade will come in handy digging up the clay around the pipe. Sounds like you have a plan, hopefully its an easy clean cut-off of the old pipe and a couple ferncos and pvc get ya fixed up.

 

Have fun, Craig

[Woody]

Call your home owners insurance and see if they could be some help

[SpencerPJ]

Seal off everything you don't want coated with dust, and use a decent respirator. Maybe make sure you have a 5 gal bucket, kitchen trash can liners, and a seat, just in case you need to use the #2 .

[Flyinfool]

Hey Jeff,, I had to break thru some concrete a while back and priced out renting a jack hammer.. I found out that I could buy a demolision hammer from HF cheaper than I could rent a jack hammer, went and bought it and it worked AWESOME plus I got to keep it for future use!! Worked a whole lot faster than a sledge hammer PLUS it was a lot more fun to operate!!!

 

The cheapest hammer from HF is $269 and to rent the hammer is $10 per hour, 4 hour min. I have had some luck in the past with my air chisel to break concrete, not fast but doable.

 

A thought crossing my mind would be to shove a 4" inside the good part of the 6" if that works. That might save future problems and the outside digging. Don't know if that would work though, but if it does, problems are solved for now.

 

Now that is an interesting thought IF I have to get that far into it. There is a 90° bend in the sewer line between where the problem is and the beginning of the straight run to the street. I will consider this IF I end up digging as far as that last elbow. It sure would prevent future issues.

 

Just for fun I just called a place that does trenchless repair and he said a minimum of $10k to reline the full pipe.

 

Back to the digging plan........

[M61A1MECH]

Just for fun I just called a place that does trenchless repair and he said a minimum of $10k to reline the full pipe.

 

I was going to suggest that as an option, a friend had it done at the industrial laundry he manages, but I was not sure how much it would cost, figure it would be a bunch, but never thought it would be that much. I agree that is way to much money.

 

Good luck with the repairs.

[cowpuc]

The cheapest hammer from HF is $269 and to rent the hammer is $10 per hour, 4 hour min. I have had some luck in the past with my air chisel to break concrete, not fast but doable.

 

 

 

Now that is an interesting thought IF I have to get that far into it. There is a 90° bend in the sewer line between where the problem is and the beginning of the straight run to the street. I will consider this IF I end up digging as far as that last elbow. It sure would prevent future issues.

 

Just for fun I just called a place that does trenchless repair and he said a minimum of $10k to reline the full pipe.

 

Back to the digging plan........

 

I used my air chisel for a while too but it was wayyyyy to slow... Either of these will do a great job and,, like I said,, when your done ya get to keep the hammer!!! The "SDS" works 100% better than the spring loaded chisel on an air chisel if that is what you were trying (thats what my air chisel is = spring holds chisel bit in).. Stick that pointed SDS chisel into the chuck and snap er in, grease the hammer head up good and WOWZY that sucker will go right thru a concrete floor LIKE NOW!! I cant remember if I had to pay extra for the chisel kit for mine - been a while but it seems like my SDS came with the bits.. Also remember, HF discount coupons are all over the place - ever Auto-RV has an HF page and they always have a 20% coupon in them..

 

 

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-18-in-SDS-Variable-Speed-Pro-Rotary-Hammer-Kit-63434.html

 

or

 

https://www.harborfreight.com/105-Amp-1-916-in-SDS-Max-Type-Pro-Variable-Speed-Rotary-Hammer-Kit-63441.html

[djh3]

Heres a back up plan.

http://www.stenbergs.us/img/toilets/porta-potty.png

[Leland]

I would not go bigger than 4". Too big of a pipe (6") will allow the solids to build up in the bottom of the pipe. You need the water to scour the entire pipe to keep it clean. This problem is compounded with the newer low water flow toilets.

 

I second Cowpuc's recommendation to buy a hammer drill or hammer from HF and to run the line above ground if at all possible.

[mraf]

Good Luck!!

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=111786

 

That is funny no matter who you are! There are all kinds of good ideas to help you fix this S*8ttE job so I will not add any more. But I have to ask You to NOT leave your snow Machine unattended. 3 inches and counting,SHUT it off! Please.

[Flyinfool]

I found the hole in the pipe.

Now the problem is that some of the chunks of broken pipe got washed down stream. Don't know how to get out other than to break more floor. I have tried to hook it, to get it on the end of the shop vac hose and everything else I can think of.

 

I do still have to break out everything to the left of the pic which is where the vertical 4" pipe comes into the floor, that elbow has a 3 inch hole in the middle of the corner.

 

The other issue is that the pipe is only 1 to 2 inches below the floor surface, the concrete was poured right onto the pipe. This is making it VERY hard to break the concrete and not the clay pipe. I am using a light hammer (28oz) and a hand held chisel to nibble away. Anything heavy will destroy the pipe. Fortunately, so far the concrete is not sticking to the pipe, so breaking away the edges lets me pick up the piece over the pipe intact. It is a good thing that my saw cuts were only 1 inch deep, I was within 1/2 inch of cutting the pipe.

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Flyinfool

[Yammer Dan]

Maybe the pieces washed on to that great beyond?? Clean up and run some water thru there to see how things are flowing?

[Marcarl]

The cheapest hammer from HF is $269 and to rent the hammer is $10 per hour, 4 hour min. I have had some luck in the past with my air chisel to break concrete, not fast but doable.

 

 

 

Now that is an interesting thought IF I have to get that far into it. There is a 90° bend in the sewer line between where the problem is and the beginning of the straight run to the street. I will consider this IF I end up digging as far as that last elbow. It sure would prevent future issues.

 

Just for fun I just called a place that does trenchless repair and he said a minimum of $10k to reline the full pipe.

 

Back to the digging plan........

 

I always think that if somebody else can do it, why can't I. Usually there is a good answer but sometimes it's as simple as needing 5 minutes of training, the right tools and the will to do it.

Training maybe be available on-line, tools can be rented, and it looks like you have the will already in place.

[Marcarl]

Here's a couple of informative reads.

 

https://www.homeadvisor.com/cost/plumbing/repair-a-sewer-main/

http://home.costhelper.com/sewer-line.html