Soft/easy pull back clutch and cant shift gears

[Waveracer200]

Hello, I recently had an issue when my motorcycle was driven for a while(and the motor got hot) that my clutch got soft on me. I eventually found out that it was leaking and letting air into my hoses for the clutch. I figured out where it was leaking from and saw it bubbling out of a bolt at the top. The rubber seal(or o-ring) seems to have dry rotted and now lets the brake/clutch fluid out but only when it gets hot.The clutch is never soft when the motor is cool. I can't find anywhere in the diagrams or online what the name of the bolt is and what it is used for. It seems it is also holding some sort of small cover to protect the engine long with keeping the brake fluid in the bike. Attached is a picture. I am hoping someone can help me with this as I have looked ever where or this. I cant get the exact names of the two cycle like covers. I found one place where someone calls it the starter clutch cover and here saying it is the middle gear cover and the parts diagram calling it the chain case. I am getting confused. In the picture, I put an arrow a one of the two top bolts the other one is not leaking but I am sure it will. You can also somewhat see where the brake fluid leaks out of it. It does not seem to be leaking out of the actual cover in the front below the bolt. I am hoping someone can help me with this answer as soon as they can so I can use this bike again to get to work and save money on gas. I also forgot to mention this is a 1993 Yamaha venture royale.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Freebird

[Marcarl]

Hi and Welcome

The cover you have in the picture is not the clutch cover, that is on the right side, so the other side. What you have pictured is the 'stator\starter clutch' cover. The smaller cover to the rear is the middle gear cover and at the bottom of that cover, in the center is the 'leaky' bolt that is usually referred to. The bolt you have indicated does not normally have a leaking issue. I would look a bit higher to see if the leak is from a valve cover gasket, that would be more common. The bolt in question I believe holds the engine case halves together and might leak if not tight enough.No harm to take it out and check to make sure all is well under it.

A no clutch issue when hot indicates air in the clutch line and it's not all that easy to get rid of. Reverse bleeding can often help with that, but first bleed it normally to make sure you have all fresh fluid in the system and got as much dirt out as possible.

[Waveracer200]

Okay, I took that bolt out and it has some liquid at the bottom. Which I am guessing is normal? It was a long bolt. I am willing to bet it just needed to be tightened.I did not test it yet. I am not sure what you mean by there is a bolt underneath the middle gear cover. I need to try and find that bolt. I will try to do that today just to make sure it is not having any problems since it is common. The liquid also doesn't seem to be coming from the valve cover gasket as I saw it coming out of that one bolt.

When you talked about the no clutch issue are you saying that the two problems are not related? I am also going to find an article here about doing the bleeding and reverse bleeding. It would take DOT 4 break liquid right? That is what I was confused on with the articles that talk about bleeding the clutch. Thanks by the way for your help. It is appropriated. by the way thanks for the welcome too.

[OrlinEngh]

It does sound like you need to flush and bleed the clutch, I have had a couple of Ventures develop the same symptoms and that is what needed to be done. And oil on the bolt that you have in the picture, my first thought would also be a leak in the valve cover gasket. and when it warmed up it would appear to look like it would be bubbling up from there because of the heat.

Orlin

[Marcarl]

Okay, I took that bolt out and it has some liquid at the bottom. Which I am guessing is normal? It was a long bolt. I am willing to bet it just needed to be tightened.I did not test it yet. I am not sure what you mean by there is a bolt underneath the middle gear cover. I need to try and find that bolt. I will try to do that today just to make sure it is not having any problems since it is common. The liquid also doesn't seem to be coming from the valve cover gasket as I saw it coming out of that one bolt.

When you talked about the no clutch issue are you saying that the two problems are not related? I am also going to find an article here about doing the bleeding and reverse bleeding. It would take DOT 4 break liquid right? That is what I was confused on with the articles that talk about bleeding the clutch. Thanks by the way for your help. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/images/icons/icon12.png It is appropriated. by the way thanks for the welcome too.

 

You can find lots of articles on bleeding a clutch, it's a very pesky issue, I could try to find one for you, but it is better that you spend some time browsing here, that way you'll lots more interesting stuff,,, and,,,, I won't have to type all morning.

 

The bolt at the bottom of the middle gear cover is the one at the lower end of the gear cover holding the gear cover to the engine case, sorry about the confusion.

 

You may also have a leaky clutch slave cylinder. It's located back in, between the stator cover and the middle gear cover and it's hidden until you take the covers off. If it's leaking and has left a spot on the floor, the easy way to determine that is to take some water and wash the spot. If it's oil it will stay, if it's brake fluid it will wash away, or you can put some on the tip of your tongue and if it's sweet it's brake fluid, but that is poisonous so not recommended. If it's brake fluid you have a leaky slave and it will need to be replaced. I won't say how much fun that will be.

[camos]

When you talked about the no clutch issue are you saying that the two problems are not related? I am also going to find an article here about doing the bleeding and reverse bleeding. It would take DOT 4 break liquid right? That is what I was confused on with the articles that talk about bleeding the clutch.

Here is a post I made on bleeding brakes which is the same process as bleeding the clutch.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?104745-Cleaning-and-Bleeding-Brakes&p=917153#post917153

 

At the master remove the bellows and if there is crud in the reservoir it is best to clean the reservoir first rather than pushing the dirt all the way through the system. The cover needs to be in place when pumping the lever to prevent splashing from the pressure relief valve in the master. That means you need to watch the level to make sure it doesn't get low enough to pump air back into the system.

 

There are basically three steps to take:

 

First: you need a hose that fits the bleeder valve tightly. I have used both 1/4" and 5/16" clear thin wall tubing. The 1/4" thin wall works better but standard thicker wall works just as well but needs to be warmed and opened a bit before it will fit over the bleeder valve. It is important that the hose goes up at least an inch or two from the valve before turning down into the waste container.

 

Second: open the valve and leave it open.

 

Third: pump the lever at the master cylinder fairly quickly so any air in the system will be carried down to the bleeder valve and not have a chance to rise up. A fast flow will also help move any crud or dirt out with the brake fluid.

 

That's about it. Pump fluid through until it gets clear then close the bleeder valve.

 

Assuming there are no loose fittings, holes in the line or issues with the slave cylinder this job should not take more than ten minutes.

Edited February 17, 2018 by camos

[Yammer Dan]

Some of these bolts are very easy to break!!!! Carefull and don't overtighten!! Several tricks to getting clutch back. Do your homework here and don't get in a rush!!

[Waveracer200]

Here is a post I made on bleeding brakes which is the same process as bleeding the clutch.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?104745-Cleaning-and-Bleeding-Brakes&p=917153#post917153

 

At the master remove the bellows and if there is crud in the reservoir it is best to clean the reservoir first rather than pushing the dirt all the way through the system. The cover needs to be in place when pumping the lever to prevent splashing from the pressure relief valve in the master. That means you need to watch the level to make sure it doesn't get low enough to pump air back into the system.

 

There are basically three steps to take:

 

First: you need a hose that fits the bleeder valve tightly. I have used both 1/4" and 5/16" clear thin wall tubing. The 1/4" thin wall works better but standard thicker wall works just as well but needs to be warmed and opened a bit before it will fit over the bleeder valve. It is important that the hose goes up at least an inch or two from the valve before turning down into the waste container.

 

Second: open the valve and leave it open.

 

Third: pump the lever at the master cylinder fairly quickly so any air in the system will be carried down to the bleeder valve and not have a chance to rise up. A fast flow will also help move any crud or dirt out with the brake fluid.

 

That's about it. Pump fluid through until it gets clear then close the bleeder valve.

 

Assuming there are no loose fittings, holes in the line or issues with the slave cylinder this job should not take more than ten minutes.

 

How much break fluid should I buy? I was just thinking of replacing it all since I have to do ot anyways. I still have not looked since I have a night shift but I will. Do you know how much it holds? I could not find that information. Thanks for your helo also. Ill write more tonight but I figured you may be sleeping when I do and I am going to grab some supplies tomorrow early morning.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Waveracer200

[camos]

How much break fluid should I buy? I was just thinking of replacing it all since I have to do ot anyways. I still have not looled since I have a night shift but I will. Do you know how much it holds? I could not find that information. Thanks for your helo also. Ill write more tonight but I figured you may be sleeping when I do and I am going to grab some supplys tomorrow early morning.

Neither the clutch or brake M/C's hold very much fluid but since you should be flushing not just changing the fluid you will likely go through a bit more. I usually buy almost a litre of DOT 4 which I think is a US quart. That is quite a bit so it lasts for a while. Brake fluid is hygroscopic which attracts water when open to the air so I'm not sure what I am doing is actually a good idea. Been doing that for a few years and haven't noticed any issues. I think the next size down would be all you should need to do both brakes and the clutch.

[BlueSky]

Dot 3, 4, or 5.1 (not 5.0) brake fluid is compatible and can be used. The higher the Dot #, the higher the boiling temperature and also the more it likes to absorb water. So, the higher the # the more often it needs to be flushed.

[bongobobny]

For my 1st gen, I use DOT4 Synthetic! The synthetic has a higher boiling point...