VentureFar Posted February 14, 2018 #1 Posted February 14, 2018 After putting 1000 miles on the 2018 Eluder and the 2018 Venture I hopped on my 2007 RSV and thought I had lost the front brake altogether ! How much extra braking power do you get if you replace the rubber brake lines with Steel? Thanks VentureFar...
XV1100SE Posted February 14, 2018 #2 Posted February 14, 2018 I replaced mine a year or two ago with SS lines. I would have to say that any impact of replacing the lines would be more related to the age of the original ones. For me I did it for the "look" rather than functionality. Before doing anything, I would consider the age of the brake fluid. More than 2 years old, change it. Brake pads in good shape? Are the pistons in the caliper moving freely? If you want to beef up the brakes I think the general direction is to replace the front calipers with R1/R6 calipers. SkyDoc would be a good person to talk with about this. Only certain years/colours of calipers are bolt on replacements. From memory....the cost of new calipers was about the same as replacing all your brake lines with SS or pretty close. If you want more stopping power I think new calipers would be the most impact.
VentureFar Posted February 14, 2018 Author #3 Posted February 14, 2018 I replaced mine a year or two ago with SS lines. I would have to say that any impact of replacing the lines would be more related to the age of the original ones. For me I did it for the "look" rather than functionality. Before doing anything, I would consider the age of the brake fluid. More than 2 years old, change it. Brake pads in good shape? Are the pistons in the caliper moving freely? If you want to beef up the brakes I think the general direction is to replace the front calipers with R1/R6 calipers. SkyDoc would be a good person to talk with about this. Only certain years/colours of calipers are bolt on replacements. From memory....the cost of new calipers was about the same as replacing all your brake lines with SS or pretty close. If you want more stopping power I think new calipers would be the most impact. Interesting. Thanks. Still cheaper than a new bike :-) Venturefar...
Yammer Dan Posted February 14, 2018 #4 Posted February 14, 2018 There are quite a few upgrades that can be done to these brakes but good clean fluid, make sure they are operating right, and Get Used To Them. The are very good brakes!! Upgrading them does make you feel better. I remember very little of last accident but doubt if better brakes would have helped.. Hey I Missed the S.O.B.!!!:
VentureFar Posted February 14, 2018 Author #5 Posted February 14, 2018 There are quite a few upgrades that can be done to these brakes but good clean fluid, make sure they are operating right, and Get Used To Them. The are very good brakes!! Upgrading them does make you feel better. I remember very little of last accident but doubt if better brakes would have helped.. Hey I Missed the S.O.B.!!!: I thought they were good brakes too until I got used to the Abs brakes on the Gen 3! Venturefar...
Yammer Dan Posted February 15, 2018 #6 Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) I thought they were good brakes too until I got used to the Abs brakes on the Gen 3! Venturefar... Yeah but ya gotta ride that Fugly thing!!!LOL. Edited February 15, 2018 by Yammer Dan
Condor Posted February 15, 2018 #7 Posted February 15, 2018 SS lines will get rid of the sponginess, but do nothing on increasing the braking power. That's where the R1/R6 calipers will make a big difference... They're a plug and play replacement. However, I'd bleed the OEM's first before planning on the upgrade...
bongobobny Posted February 15, 2018 #8 Posted February 15, 2018 Along with the R1/R6 calipers and SS lines, changing over to a 14mm master cylinder is also important!!!
Condor Posted February 15, 2018 #9 Posted February 15, 2018 Along with the R1/R6 calipers and SS lines, changing over to a 14mm master cylinder is also important!!! I know I'm going to catch all kinds of hell for this, but I take exception to the importance of swapping out the master.... Granted it might do a little good, but going through the hassle of changing from the OEM master to me is just tossing money at something that should be a relatively simple and inexpensive job. Those pads ride a couple thousands of an inch off the rotor and it doesn't take that much to hydraulically move them. So to me the OEM is adequate. The last thing you want to do with the front brakes, other than improving the feel, is to make them too touchy, and have the front end lock up every time you sneeze... I like to call it over powering the patch.. Remember stopping comes from where the rubber meets the road. Not at the lever. Too much lever too quickly will get you in trouble... A little bit of sponginess is actually a good thing. IMHO My 2¢
cowpuc Posted February 15, 2018 #10 Posted February 15, 2018 I know I'm going to catch all kinds of hell for this, but I take exception to the importance of swapping out the master.... Granted it might do a little good, but going through the hassle of changing from the OEM master to me is just tossing money at something that should be a relatively simple and inexpensive job. Those pads ride a couple thousands of an inch off the rotor and it doesn't take that much to hydraulically move them. So to me the OEM is adequate. The last thing you want to do with the front brakes, other than improving the feel, is to make them too touchy, and have the front end lock up every time you sneeze... I like to call it over powering the patch.. Remember stopping comes from where the rubber meets the road. Not at the lever. Too much lever too quickly will get you in trouble... A little bit of sponginess is actually a good thing. IMHO My 2¢ I get where your coming from Jack,, it's a double edged sword perdicament to say the least.. I know my R1 in it's stock OEM MotoGp track form is a 1 finger front brake operation. Precision is the name of the game therein in both design and in application - if you dont handle that puppy like a micrometer you can flip over front wards from a "stoppie" at 140 mph with one finger as easy as you can flip over backwards at 140 mph while lifting the front wheel in 4th.. I am sure that, from the perspective you and I are talking about is where the desire/love of ABS is derived from.. I have been following and participating in a lot of discussion about the new DCT Automatic trannied Wing and its interesting because a LOT of people seem to support and want to lose the clutch for similar reasons... Not being one to judge either way I gotta say that I still prefer/love the best traditional braking I can get and gotta have a manual tranny.. I consider the precision braking deal with it's needed focus/concentration levels and a good ol manual clutch leaving me to be the one to make the decision how my back wheel is interacting with the pavement a joy to use and find that using those things are part of what makes biking fun in my case... I know I am weird but I even see no point in the GPS's, audio systems, traction control, digital gauges and stuff that many others are wanting and willing to pay thru the nose for... I look at all that stuff as nothing more than a distraction, a means to take my focus off riding my scoot,,, really really riding my scoot.. I think in the end its up to each one of us to pick and choose what it is in motorcycling that spins our crank - nothing more, nothing less...
Yammer Dan Posted February 15, 2018 #11 Posted February 15, 2018 I think Puc & Jack said what I was trying to say. These brakes work great right out of the box!! You can do upgrades that make them feel better and work a LITTLE better. BUT getting used to your brakes and knowing them and keeping them maintained as you should is the most important thing!!! That's what wakes me up at night. I hadn't had that much time on "Silver" and had slacked on finding a parking lot and "playing" with them. They were in Great shape. I don't remember that accident at all. Did I do all that I could have done??? I Missed the S.O.B. and that wasn't his plan. KNOW YOUR BRAKES!!! Thanks Guys always glad to learn from my elders.....
VentureFar Posted February 15, 2018 Author #12 Posted February 15, 2018 I think Puc & Jack said what I was trying to say. These brakes work great right out of the box!! You can do upgrades that make them feel better and work a LITTLE better. BUT getting used to your brakes and knowing them and keeping them maintained as you should is the most important thing!!! That's what wakes me up at night. I hadn't had that much time on "Silver" and had slacked on finding a parking lot and "playing" with them. They were in Great shape. I don't remember that accident at all. Did I do all that I could have done??? I Missed the S.O.B. and that wasn't his plan. KNOW YOUR BRAKES!!! Thanks Guys always glad to learn from my elders..... guess I just need to unlearn the 2018 brakes I just got used to. I didn’t have a problem with them 2 weeks ago! venturefar...
Yammer Dan Posted February 15, 2018 #13 Posted February 15, 2018 guess I just need to unlearn the 2018 brakes I just got used to. I didn’t have a problem with them 2 weeks ago! venturefar... GLAD We could Help!!!
snyper316 Posted February 16, 2018 #14 Posted February 16, 2018 guess I just need to unlearn the 2018 brakes I just got used to. I didn’t have a problem with them 2 weeks ago! venturefar... I tell you something I came close to wrecking my sons Rebel because I got so used to my 83's brakes and the pinky pressure I darned near flipped over the handle bars, and then going down a hill one day some moron pulled out in front of me instead of trying to avoid the guy I knew I had good brakes and slammed the back ones and Skidded about 20 foot... and thats not cool at 65mph.... top speed on that rebel lol. All i did with my 83 is put HH on it and cleaned the calipers up real good and changed out fluid and she stops 70% better then when I first got her. I also used to drive Busses and Vans escorting people to there destination and I was taught to drive 2 minutes down the road. OK maybe not that far but you get my drift all you can do is plan ahead and keep all escapes open. Hope for the best but expect the worse kind of thing. I will say your gonna have fun switching up bikes every other weekend... getting used to braking and accelerating difference...
VentureFar Posted February 16, 2018 Author #15 Posted February 16, 2018 I tell you something I came close to wrecking my sons Rebel because I got so used to my 83's brakes and the pinky pressure I darned near flipped over the handle bars, and then going down a hill one day some moron pulled out in front of me instead of trying to avoid the guy I knew I had good brakes and slammed the back ones and Skidded about 20 foot... and thats not cool at 65mph.... top speed on that rebel lol. All i did with my 83 is put HH on it and cleaned the calipers up real good and changed out fluid and she stops 70% better then when I first got her. I also used to drive Busses and Vans escorting people to there destination and I was taught to drive 2 minutes down the road. OK maybe not that far but you get my drift all you can do is plan ahead and keep all escapes open. Hope for the best but expect the worse kind of thing. I will say your gonna have fun switching up bikes every other weekend... getting used to braking and accelerating difference... Yup. I scan to the horizon which on the freeway is about 12 seconds in most areas. I am just saying that there is a 1000% difference between the brakes on the 2 2018 bikes I just rode and my Venture’s brakes. VentureFar...
videoarizona Posted February 16, 2018 #16 Posted February 16, 2018 I'm not that enamored by the RSV brakes. The front require more pressure than I like and the rear is way to strong. After I get the 89 back on the road, I'll bring the RSV home and replace the front calipers with the R6 units I've already acquired and cleaned up. I'm hoping the stainless lines that came with them will fit. Then I'll go searching for gg pads for the rear. That should eliminate the issues I have with the RSV brakes. I'll let you all know my thoughts when I'm back on the road.
CaseyJ955 Posted February 16, 2018 #17 Posted February 16, 2018 I did the R6 brakes with EBC HH pads, keeping my MC stock. The bike stops so much better now (gen 1). I will speculate that the EBC HH pads are the biggest part of the improvement aside from delinking. The R6 calipers weren't really THAT much bigger. I think a good flush and a decent set of HH pads will make a pretty big difference, assuming your existing calipers and lines are in serviceable condition. I swapped my calipers out because the OEM calipers were toast after only 30 years, they just dont make em' the way they used to!
VentureFar Posted February 17, 2018 Author #18 Posted February 17, 2018 I did the R6 brakes with EBC HH pads, keeping my MC stock. The bike stops so much better now (gen 1). I will speculate that the EBC HH pads are the biggest part of the improvement aside from delinking. The R6 calipers weren't really THAT much bigger. I think a good flush and a decent set of HH pads will make a pretty big difference, assuming your existing calipers and lines are in serviceable condition. I swapped my calipers out because the OEM calipers were toast after only 30 years, they just dont make em' the way they used to! I just ordered the EBC HH pads last night for the front. Will bleed the front thoroughly on the replacement. I will report. Going for a 200 mile ride this morning to get back used to my baby. I was sitting on it last night moving it around in the garage to set the tire pressure and I heard and audible. “Ahhhhhhh” emanate from my mouth. So comfortable. VentureFar... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
videoarizona Posted February 17, 2018 #19 Posted February 17, 2018 I did the R6 brakes with EBC HH pads, keeping my MC stock. The bike stops so much better now (gen 1). I will speculate that the EBC HH pads are the biggest part of the improvement aside from delinking. The R6 calipers weren't really THAT much bigger. I think a good flush and a decent set of HH pads will make a pretty big difference, assuming your existing calipers and lines are in serviceable condition I swapped my calipers out because the OEM calipers were toast after only 30 years, they just dont make em' the way they used to! Yep..on the 1st gen the calipers and HH pads made all the difference on my 89 as well. But I'm talking about my 2nd gen. The front calipers are wimpy 2 pot units, the R1/R6 are 4 pot. That and stainless lines should make the RSV stop with nice controlled finger pressure. I was thinking GG rear pads for the RSV as they are not quite as effective and I need to tone down that 4 pot caliper since my right foot still doesn't get the message! HH on the front of the RSV...definitely. 30 years...that really is good service. I have 14 years and almost 200K miles on my Yukon and still have original brakes, water pump, AC compressor, Alternator..etc.. I'm wondering how they could build such good quality parts these days. Or maybe they don't anymore. Not complaining...just astounded I don't have to routinely change these things out like I did on the Dodge vans.... Yep...mom Yamaha builds good quality into their scoots!
VentureFar Posted February 22, 2018 Author #20 Posted February 22, 2018 Yep..on the 1st gen the calipers and HH pads made all the difference on my 89 as well. But I'm talking about my 2nd gen. The front calipers are wimpy 2 pot units, the R1/R6 are 4 pot. That and stainless lines should make the RSV stop with nice controlled finger pressure. I was thinking GG rear pads for the RSV as they are not quite as effective and I need to tone down that 4 pot caliper since my right foot still doesn't get the message! HH on the front of the RSV...definitely. 30 years...that really is good service. I have 14 years and almost 200K miles on my Yukon and still have original brakes, water pump, AC compressor, Alternator..etc.. I'm wondering how they could build such good quality parts these days. Or maybe they don't anymore. Not complaining...just astounded I don't have to routinely change these things out like I did on the Dodge vans.... Yep...mom Yamaha builds good quality into their scoots! I got the ebc hh pads in the mail. Will be mounting soon and will share what I experience. VentureFar... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
VentureFar Posted March 3, 2018 Author #21 Posted March 3, 2018 I got the ebc hh pads in the mail. Will be mounting soon and will share what I experience. VentureFar... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Just put the new ebc hh pads on the front. Also bled the brake fluid. It is raining in Southern California right now so I don’t want to take her for a test ride. With 39,000 miles on her the original front pads had as much meat on them as the new ebc hh’s. Friends I use the front brake more than the rear but overall most of my riding is long haul gas tank to gas tank but my rear was shot at about 29,000. Worn through to the bone. Someone please explain to me, does the Gen 2 have linked brakes and what exactly does that mean when you pull on the front brake only or push on the rear brake only Or use them both? This is a photo of the old but still new oem pads at 39,000 miles! VentureFar... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
bongobobny Posted March 4, 2018 #22 Posted March 4, 2018 No, 2nd gens do not have linked brakes, the fronts and the rear are independent. One thing about the rears, due to the setup of the system, they tend to wear one pad faster than the other. Knowing that many of us swap the rear pads from side to side on a regular basis, like yearly or more depending on how many miles you ride AND whether city or country riding... I was taught many many years ago to hit the rear brake just before the fronts to prevent going over the handlebars on bicycles. The same is relevant to motorcycles. As a matter of fact, with the linked brakes on the 1st gen, there is a device called a proportioning valve which has a spring loaded valve in it that delays hydraulic fluid going to the front brake by a few milliseconds for this very reason...
VentureFar Posted March 8, 2018 Author #23 Posted March 8, 2018 Took her out for a quick brake check. I would say the ebc hh fronts are obviously stronger. Enough to notice. I say it was worth the money and effort. VentureFar... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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