Timing Advance

[snyper316]

When I had my Venture serviced two years ago for hard starting, bad starter, and fork seals the guy said he advanced the timing, When I replaced the box with the aftermarket I did notice it turns over a few more times then it did on the OEM TCI. So what do I do to turn back Time? I thought I read somewhere you can't Advance the spark timing. But I would assume it has something to do with Flywheel position and pick up sensors.

[MiCarl]

I seriously doubt if the guy advanced the timing. You'd have to re-machine the flywheel rotor to do it with a stock TCI.

 

What aftermarket ignition did you use? I know the ignitech unit Dingy was selling could be programmed to not fire the plugs during the first revolution but do not recall if it was that way out of the box. My ignitech is programmed to not fire on the first revolution and it does seem like the engine cranks forever. To change it you need the data cable and ignitech software.

 

Personally I like the delay. With downdraft carbs it insures you don't damage something if a carburetor leaks into a cylinder.

[snyper316]

I know none of that was done, I got the regulatorrectifier.com one. I was first to try it out. The second unit that is out there in this forum on our bikes is @s.tyler58 and I don't know if he noticed the difference on his or not. I never even thought about what you just said in regards to the gas leaking down.

[Yammer Dan]

Read something about timing once.:think: Maybe it was in programming the replacement TCIs???

[CaseyJ955]

I have the Ignitek in mine, I played with it some and tried a couple different maps, even a Vmax map. I'm going on memory here but I can set the base advance and set spark curve, which was a little above my pay grade. I would be much more comfortable with that if I could access a dyno before fudging around with curve. I did take some wisdom from Dingy on settings and it turned out pretty well.

 

I got a map I have not yet tried from another Vmax nut, so I'll probably give that one a try when it's not -12 deg.

Edited January 14, 2018 by CaseyJ955

[camos]

Personally I like the delay. With downdraft carbs it insures you don't damage something if a carburetor leaks into a cylinder.

Perhaps you are referring to something else here but if a carb leaks enough gas into the cylinder to cause a hydro-lock then a delay in firing will not prevent damage because just turning it over with the starter will likely break something.

[snyper316]

 

I got a map I have not yet tried from another Vmax nut, so I'll probably give that one a try when it's not -12 deg.

 

O come on that is hardly cold.... Ok it chilly but it don't freeze hairs in place, when I worked at George's chicken I wore shorts to work and started off in a coat. 2 hours in I was down to t-shirt and shorts. Temp in freezer -10, blast 1-4 was -30 5-8 was -65, now that's cold but I am half nuts and I like the feel of every hair on my body freezing!!!

 

Ok to the rest I may need to get a hold of the ppl where I got my ignition and see if that delay is supposed to be there. If not I just send them the box or see if the can send me something to plug into my laptop.

 

Sent from my LG-K371 using Tapatalk

[MiCarl]

Perhaps you are referring to something else here but if a carb leaks enough gas into the cylinder to cause a hydro-lock then a delay in firing will not prevent damage because just turning it over with the starter will likely break something.

 

Not as likely, starter doesn't spin the engine all that fast.

 

If another cylinder fires though it's sure to break things.

[Flyinfool]

:sign yeah that:

 

I would be surprised if the starter has the power to actually break things. When the hydro lock hits it will just stall the starter. When the engine is hot and has its full compression, the starter is just able to get past the normal compression. on the other hand I am sure that combustion forces at WOT are a lot higher and put a lot more stress on the rods and pistons than the starter ever could.

[snyper316]

Ah turned into a debate. Now knowing our itty bitty starter kicks a clutch gear set to spin the motor giving it quite a bit of torque? Or is this just true of things like bed motors or any motor needing to be slowed to 1 revolution per minute?

 

Sent from my LG-K371 using Tapatalk

[Geobob]

ok now that someone else has highjacked the thread I will put my thought out there. First the bike has a fuel pump so can enough gas really drain into the motor while its sitting. I owned a number of CBXs and that is the only bike I ever heard of having this problem. I had a V65 that did this but it just stopped the starter. Has anyone ever heard of this happening on a venture or vmax. I am just happy when the starter motor works let along worry about it having the strength to bend a connecting rod.

[BlueSky]

hydrolocking wasn't that uncommon with the Kawasaki Concours because the carb overflows were deleted as part of the emissions systems. Without the overflows if the diaphragm petcock failed to seal and the carb needle failed to seal the carb would overflow to the engine. In fact a member of the COG would rebuild your carbs and add overflows if you mailed you carbs to him in FL.

[snyper316]

Well then..... here is another for you all, since I have had this venture it starts good cold and after an hour of setting after running. Now here is something that has happened I don't know why it does it but like if I go ride and stop some where, when I go to leave less then 10-15 minutes later it seems to need to turn over more and act like it isn't going to start. There has been a few times where it hasn't restarted to cooled back down. Now this is why I was mainly asking about timing advance. So does anyone have any ideas why it acts kinda like a vapor lock situation?

[mraf]

Have you put new spark plugs in it and sync the carbs? Spark plugs are very cheap. I replace them every spring if I don't my bike will act the same. If you don't believe this you should have rode a 72 kaw with old plugs, talk about a dog and hard to start. New plugs and voila a new bike!

[bongobobny]

The hydra lock issue is more of a 2nd gen issue due to where the gas tank is physically located as opposed to the 1st gen. The gas tank sets above the carbs on the 2nd gen but the gas tank on the 1st gen is lower than the carbs.

[snyper316]

Have you put new spark plugs in it and sync the carbs? Spark plugs are very cheap. I replace them every spring if I don't my bike will act the same. If you don't believe this you should have rode a 72 kaw with old plugs, talk about a dog and hard to start. New plugs and voila a new bike!

 

Actually I have replaced them, I do have rack of coils that have tested good I may throw in and see if that makes anymore of a difference. I am leaning more towards that.

[snyper316]

Hey just one question I think I have found me a set of coils for tinker, I have been wanting to try cops so will these work on our bikes just to make sure I have right thing.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-Honda-CBR1000RR-CBR1000-RR-DENSO-Ignition-Coil-Coils-Wiring-Harness-30700-M/253214059949?hash=item3af4bbedad:g:h-wAAOSw88NZ5wew&vxp=mtr

[camos]

Well then..... here is another for you all, since I have had this venture it starts good cold and after an hour of setting after running. Now here is something that has happened I don't know why it does it but like if I go ride and stop some where, when I go to leave less then 10-15 minutes later it seems to need to turn over more and act like it isn't going to start. There has been a few times where it hasn't restarted to cooled back down. Now this is why I was mainly asking about timing advance. So does anyone have any ideas why it acts kinda like a vapor lock situation?

More likely the battery posts and the cable connections down to the starter need cleaning. There is enough juice getting through to turn the engine over but not enough left over for the spark.