State of CFTW Address... Thoughts? Debate? Interesting read,, maybe,,, maybe not...

[cowpuc]

Obviously it's winter so we may as well sit around the club house and a bit... So,, take a read and speak to it.. Part way thru the article is a link to the actual discussion that the "panel of professionals" had.. Its kind of long and in PDF format but it is some what informative into the mind of other groups.. Also,, I was intriqued with the comments that readers of the article left behind..

Anyway, here's the read = something to do while Fool is playing with that infernal machine!!

 

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-motorcycle-summit-20171214-story.html

[RandyR]

Its a good article, and draws the right conclusions, imo.

[AJBinVA]

Being in a rather populated area with a long riding season I've always been surprised at the lack of motorcycles on the road. The drivers/traffic are notoriously "bad" but even more so I have never set foot in a dealership that I've felt welcomed in. Even just to buy parts or for service. They are all crowded with bikes with giant signs that say don't touch. As a rider it's intimidating to even ask about checking out a bike. I'm always "in the market" if the salesman is good. Or at least they should everyone as an opportunity to make a good impression on a potential future customer.

 

I cant imagine that a would be future rider feels any better. Especially when they show up because they are interested. Many dont have friends or family who ride so they come to the one place they think they are going to meet motorcycle "enthusiast" the dealership. Then they are greated by less than ensthusiastic salesman who would rather try and sell a new vike to the guy who just dropped his off for service then to explain where the next Motorcycle Safety Course is being offered.

 

I would love to see a dealership offering courses on site or nearby for interested buyers and offer it for free with purchase. Some kind of welcoming gesture. The only dealership around here that does it is the HD guys but they charge an extra $40 on top of the normal course fee. Oh yeah an they sell a ton of motorcycles. I hear them plenty but they never seem to catch up. Just sitting there behind me making a ruckus going nowhere fast.

 

The age of the salesman is dying. People are numb due to the likes of telemarketers and beggers on every corner and most salesman I come across would rather be a vulture that swoops in after you've already made up your mind and the bell on the counter has woken them up.

[s.tyler58]

Obviously it's winter so we may as well sit around the club house and a bit... So,, take a read and speak to it.. Part way thru the article is a link to the actual discussion that the "panel of professionals" had.. Its kind of long and in PDF format but it is some what informative into the mind of other groups.. Also,, I was intriqued with the comments that readers of the article left behind..

Anyway, here's the read = something to do while Fool is playing with that infernal machine!!

 

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-motorcycle-summit-20171214-story.html

I agree with this statement,

 

"What we have is cool and fun and genuine and appealing," he said. "Everyone who does it knows how great it is, and how fun it is. What we're trying to do here shouldn't be impossible."

 

Couple that with the comment about the bubble wrap generation and how do you reach them. I can put on my VR headset and take a trip anywhere I want right on my couch. But it's even more fun in my office chair because it moves and Spins. How do we get that generation out on the road?

 

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[s.tyler58]

Being in a rather populated area with a long riding season I've always been surprised at the lack of motorcycles on the road. The drivers/traffic are notoriously "bad" but even more so I have never set foot in a dealership that I've felt welcomed in. Even just to buy parts or for service. They are all crowded with bikes with giant signs that say don't touch. As a rider it's intimidating to even ask about checking out a bike. I'm always "in the market" if the salesman is good. Or at least they should everyone as an opportunity to make a good impression on a potential future customer.

 

I cant imagine that a would be future rider feels any better. Especially when they show up because they are interested. Many dont have friends or family who ride so they come to the one place they think they are going to meet motorcycle "enthusiast" the dealership. Then they are greated by less than ensthusiastic salesman who would rather try and sell a new vike to the guy who just dropped his off for service then to explain where the next Motorcycle Safety Course is being offered.

 

I would love to see a dealership offering courses on site or nearby for interested buyers and offer it for free with purchase. Some kind of welcoming gesture. The only dealership around here that does it is the HD guys but they charge an extra $40 on top of the normal course fee. Oh yeah an they sell a ton of motorcycles. I hear them plenty but they never seem to catch up. Just sitting there behind me making a ruckus going nowhere fast.

 

The age of the salesman is dying. People are numb due to the likes of telemarketers and beggers on every corner and most salesman I come across would rather be a vulture that swoops in after you've already made up your mind and the bell on the counter has woken them up.

"The age of the salesman is dying. People are numb due to the likes of telemarketers and beggers on every corner and most salesman I come across would rather be a vulture that swoops in after you've already made up your mind and the bell on the counter has woken them up."

 

It's not all about the salesman. And I have to admit that if I have to go to the parts counter at the dealership I'm intimidated as hell. But the way life is now, the art of negotiation is seen as intimidation and today's buyer is happy with the price that they pay after checking five web pages.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[BlueSky]

What disappoints me most about motorcycles is that so few are comfortable to ride for any length of time. Seems you have to ride a 800lb behemoth to be comfortable. I think that could be much improved.

[bongobobny]

Hmmm, an article coming out of La La Land... I do have to admit they make some good points.

 

All right, first we need to have at least 8 or 10 gender-specific versions so they can identify with a specific version. There needs to be a giant pacifier installed within easy reach while driving. They can't run on gasoline or any fuel that will cause global warming to get even worse. That's OK, though, as ideally, they would be something you set on in front of a giant virtual reality screen.

 

Here's a thought, why not make them free to own for everybody?? I also think we should supply free actual functional motorcycles with IUDs installed to every illegal alien seeking "sanctuary status" in all of our major cities! The government can just magically produce the money required to pay for this program, just ask Bernie how to do it...

[baylensman]

I worked in the Auto industry during its demise. Now its back stronger than ever. The big three got complacent and allowed the market to fragment and a host of others jumped in doing it a little differently. The industry adapted and came roaring back. Dealerships got bought sold and consolidated due to the fact that the internet gave everyone the information as to what a car should cost, the traditional dealer making hundreds or thousands on a new car sale and refusing to adapt is gone. The same thing will happen to motorcycle dealers. They will adapt or die.

 

Auto sales are strong again even thought the same people not driving bike are also not driving cars. More milenials don't have license or own cars than any generation since the 30's!! The fact is if a 4 wheel cage with a drop top A/C and 6 speaker stereo can get me 30 mph around town why drive a bike? (i have my reasons) The bike builders must adapt also use the tech to get us 2 wheelers in the 60 MPG range with performance, Automatic transmissions, traction contro,l ABS, Collision and lane change warning Good blue tooth and charge ports. Milenials will jump on two wheels. Right now they view bikes in general as old tech or low tech and irrelevant but not RETRO enough to be cool.

 

I think dealers need to have multiple models and brands available and builders need to expand their lines. (4 cylinderYamaha tourer anyone). The new two front tire bikes are a bike step in the right direction. Maybe some lower saddle tire motors not scooters for the Ladies and smaller guys. How about a retractable bubble for rain protection? A lot of ideas out there.

[XV1100SE]

I thought the autonomous car comment was interesting. But the technology is developed to identify pedestrians....certainly they can "see" motorcycles and bicycles.

 

Adding more bells and whistles to a bike isn't going to pull in new riders. Newer features (like lane change warning) will appeal to current riders looking for the toys found in cars but people who haven't ridden before won't care. It's like anything else, make it affordable, advertising that says "you have to have it", and have sizes that fit. With Nancy (5'2"), she has sat on bikes and has been interested in getting her license but rare to find a bike with a low enough seat that she can sit on without being on her toes. Kudo's to Harley and I can't remember whether it was Suzuki or Kawasaki but you have a choice of seats, handle bars, and adjustable foot pegs to make the bike fit you. Everyone else is a "one size fits all" approach where what comes in the crate is what you get.

 

Considering cost...here where the riding is 6-8 months long, if there is a choice between a car and a motorcycle at the same price, most people would go for the car for the convenience and safety of being enclosed, and the versatility of carrying passengers (don't need a helmet, can take 1 to 3 passengers), use it all year round....

 

Looking at the new Venture... $30,000 + for an air cooled vtwin when I can get a Kawasaki Vulcan 1700 Voyager for $20,000 (liquid cooled v-twin, ABS rear brake, 3 year warranty), or a Goldwing Tour DCT (adjustable windscreen, removable trunk, fancy infotainment system, selectable riding mode, throttle by wire, forward/reverse walking mode...and a liquid cooled six cylinder motor) for $31,000. Between the new Venture and the Goldwing....if I can make the bike fit me, it would be a first choice.

 

And as mentioned....where are the "beginner" bikes? 350-600 cc bikes that are less intimidating, usually lower seat position, and lighter than the majority of bikes that are out there? This will be easier for shorter people and (some) women to handle and start riding. Smaller bikes also come at lower prices... but make it reasonable in the $3,000 to $4,000 range.

 

Advertising? Combination of the above, put it out there... great product, great price, environmental benefits... why not ride?

[grubsie]

It's the economy, economy, economy! Especially when it comes to a motorcycle. Some new bikes are costing more than new cars. People need cars more than they need a motorcycle. At today's prices for vehicles, an average new car is costing someone on average, $300.00 a month or better for 7 years. Double that with 2 people in the household. Add a new bike to that and your monthly expense gets that much costlier. All this would be fine if the average person's income kept up with the rate of inflation., but sadly, it hasn't. It's hard to justify that luxury of a new bike to a financially responsible mother to purchase for herself while raising a family, let alone justifying it for her husband. Also for millennial guys and gals who are burdened with student loan debt or those who chose not to get a higher degree that are working lower wage jobs.

 

In 1977, I bought my first brand new bike, a 1977 Suzuki RM250 for $1,100.00. It seemed expensive at the time even though I was still living at home and had a good job at a local manufacturing company. But look at the prices today for a RM125 ($7,800.00). There is no way I could justify buying one now even though affordability is not out of the question. I don't know how a young person today could even afford this bike. You can thank the rate of inflation vs stagnant wages for this.

 

OK, so someone could go the used bike route. There are some great buys out there if you look hard enough. But here again, it's the economy. I have restored bikes and flipped for years and also flipped other bikes for quite a while and have done pretty well doing it, but it is getting harder and harder and taking longer and longer to flip them and the profit margins are getting smaller. Why? Expendable money is not there like it used to be. People used to pay cash. Nowadays, most customers are financing used bikes. I had one person recently finance a $1,500.00 bike and he showed up with his wife and 2 kids to pick it up. I almost didn't sell it to him. It broke my heart seeing his 2 young kids standing there as he handed me the bank check.

 

That being said, I couldn't agree more about the dealerships. While I do not find them intimidating, I find them irritating from the salesmen, to the parts people, to the service people. They all seem to make me feel like I am putting them out. Most of them are from a younger generation that has lost all manners and courtesy. Corporate really needs to check on the dealers randomly, unannounced, with random average men and women acting as customers checking on all the departments. I am sure they would be shocked. Far different than the excitement level at corporate for their products. And don't think us customers don't notice it. Salesmen should treat all their products with the same excitement with their customers and for the new prospective inexperienced riders, they should go all out and treat them with kid gloves. It's amazing to me. All their top of the line bikes are well displayed, while their (only one) little 250cc beginners bike is stuck all alone in the back corner collecting dust.

[baylensman]

Saw this might add to the http://discussionhttp://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/16/car-bike-or-motorcycle-depends-on-where-you-live/ if the chart won't expand for you.

 

also saw this [h=3]Medium & heavy ICE motorcycles register fastest gains[/h]The medium and heavy internal combustion engine (ICE) motorcycle segment will register faster gains than other ICE product types through 2020, as new and replacement product sales grow in North America, Western Europe, and other mature markets. In developing nations, the number of wealthy households that can afford medium and heavy models, which are luxury items, is expected to increase sharply because of strong economic growth.

[videoarizona]

>

 

 

Yamaha makes the Star 950 series. Low seat height for women riders. You can flat foot even if you are 5'2". Easy to handle...yep. Reliable cruiser!

Not that big either. Yea it weighs 650 pounds, but it's so well balanced anyone can ride it. Slow speed handling is a breeze as well.

 

The 650 Custom is there as well....nicely balanced bike for beginners...

 

But yes, they aren't marketing those bikes to new riders or women.....shame.

 

[/color]

[BlueSky]

A woman in my neighborhood owns a Yamaha Vstar 250. That would be a great starter bike I suppose with its low seat height, and light weight just over 300 lbs. One of these days I suppose I'll have to buy a cruiser just to see how comfy they are.

[Chaharly]

Myself being a millennial-ish. Born in 1993 I look around at a lot of new motorcycles and there are truly some terrific deals on the market. I think the FZ-09 is a great price at what 8,000 brand new? There are midrange bikes that are considered more street and less rocket where you sit up a little straighter so its more casual. I have a 919 Hornet and absolutely love the bike because I can sit up pretty straight on it and ride with my head high.

 

The biggest problem is, is that even with great deals on new bikes most people are going to want a cruiser, and for what you get with a cruiser I believe they're over priced. The 2018 YZF-R3 looks like a hell of a bike and its only 4,999 while the cheapest cruiser is the lousy V-Star 250 at 4,400.

 

Nobody my age could afford to start on a 5,000 dollar motorcycle that they're probably going to outgrow after a season. It makes much more sense to buy used, and most friends I've tried to convert give up after awhile

[grubsie]

I can see and understand sales growth in emerging countries , but not nearly as much here in the US. We are basically at saturation point. It's evident by the amount of bikes in the used market.

 

One thing that is never mentioned is the intimidation factor. Someone thinks about getting a motorcycle. All excited, they start talking to people about it. They get all kinds of opinions, for what their worth, and talk to some other bikers they might know and get even more confused. So they start looking and may buy used or new. From all the advice they got, they either buy a bike that is too big for them to handle comfortably or they buy something that is really too small to do what they had originally intended to use for. Either way, they really do not know what type or size bike is right for them.

 

All excited, they decide to go riding with their new motorcycle friends. There you are with your 250 - 450cc new to you bike that they can afford, in sneakers, a full face helmet and a TJ Maxx windbreaker and they all show up with their 3800cc snorting, growling tricked out bikes, dressed in leather jackets, chaps and 1/2 helmets and you are going on an 8 hour marathon through the mountains.

 

Or...

 

And this is not bashing. It's not bashing!!! But, the "Harley" image hurts the motorcycle image through not fault of the Harley manufacturer itself. It's the groupies. A lot of you guys probably have a background like me. At least I know "CowPuc" does. I have been riding almost as long as I have been walking, from Briggs & Stratton minibikes, to scooters, mopeds, to motocross racing, 2 stroke road bikes, Honda 750's, Goldwings, Sportsers, Road Kings, 1st Gen & 2nd Ventures etc. and still to this day, sometimes when I am riding on my RSV, I get intimidated a little bit when I come across a group of Harley's on the road or when I pull into a parking lot full of Harley's. Imagine how a newbie must or might feel? I know in my heart that most of them are only weekend warriors and don't clock in near the miles we do, but there's something about that mystique. You all know what I am talking about.

 

I can't tell you how many times I have heard in conversations with newer riders when talking about their bikes say, "It's not a Harley, but it's good enough for now. Maybe someday I will own a Harley." Makes me cringe.

 

Somehow, we have to get back to the "You meet the nicest people on a Honda" or "Let the good times role"

[cowpuc]

and here is an interesting non-American perspective of the study: http://www.atomicalex.com/?p=2115

 

and a clip thereof:

""" the countries of the EU espouse both the basic transportation concept of smaller machines and the luxury (toy) concept of larger machines. The EU perspective is nuanced in that motorcycles are purchased with distinct purposes in mind and the owner of a larger touring machine (toy concept) is likely to also own a smaller, more city-focused bike for local riding (basic transportation concept). The authors of the study come immediately to the question of desirability in the US (bigger is better), but remain mired in the idea that fun has to be a part of the equation. The very concept of “transportainment” needs to die a fiery death."""

 

Different strokes for different folks!!

 

 

[beastwood]

I attended the Long Beach Motorcycle Show recently and checked out the new bikes. Royal Enfield has a nice lineup of retro bikes all in the $5000 price range. These are made in India and machined with robotic controls. Yamaha has the YF07 in the $7000 price range. If I was starting out, I would look in either of these areas for new. For used there is a glut of bikes flooding the market, but a new rider would need help sorting through the inventory so as not to buy too big.