GM in-car distraction systems, whether you want it or not.

[CaseyJ955]

GM will add their e-Commerce apps to your GM vehcle automatically, thats right, right down your throats!

 

See, you guys/gals that have read anything I have ever posted know I'm cynical as hell, so when I read about their rational I emitted a short string of obscenity followed by the forehead palm plant. Its for your safety and mine! See what they did there. It has nothing to do with revenue sharing in undisclosed amounts.

 

I was looking for an opt-out option, or something that said it would only work while stationary. Which would mean your going to be stuck sitting behind them through green lights just as the idiots that use their phones while driving already make everyone do. Its important to know its about "safety" and not undisclosed profits. Pfffft. This will be for 2017+ GMs.

 

This wont effect me beyond the likely safety issues of more driver distraction, I dumped GM before HD and that was decades ago. See while many automakers are pioneering advancing auto technology, GM has long been selling the same old cars with old tech while adding current tech to the infotainment systems, giving the illusion of a current tech vehicle. I noticed this a few years ago.

 

This is a short read and a bit lean on details,, but enough to cement my boycott of anything GM later than 1972, which has been cemented many times over. Now mfg-sponsored spam right in your dash. I would rather see them develope better transmissions or find ways to improve on the lifeboat-esque handling, improve steering/braking feel or for effsake eliminate rattles and squeeks. Maybe stop with all the inferior materials/plastics lacing the current cabins. Nope, you get this instead, this is what they needed to do.

 

What do you folks think about this? Do you have one of these afflicted vehicles? Does this shine with you?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gm-tech/gm-puts-an-e-commerce-marketplace-in-the-dashboard-idUSKBN1DZ0DX

[RandyR]

I'm not more concerned about it than I am general smartphone use by drivers, which do the same things.

 

Its probably less of a safety hazard than someone fooling with their cellphone or tablet in the car.

 

I didn't read anything in the article about GM flashing spontaneous ads on the screen while you were driving.

 

Most high end cars have built in screens with aps already, or at least bluetooth hooks to your handheld which does have aps running.

 

That said, I'm unlikely to buy a GM car.

[MiCarl]

I'm concerned about what they're doing to cars.

 

My wife drives a 2004 Lincoln Aviator. All the climate controls are push button and you have to look away from the road to see temperature settings, fan speeds etc. Primitive compared to new vehicles with touch screen displays to page through. Still plenty distracting.

 

My 2007 Colorado has 3 knobs you twist for temperature, fan speed and which vent it blows through. I never need to look at them, just reach and turn. To me, a far superior user interface. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll ever be able to get that again.

 

I recently read an article about a study that indicated in car touch screens were as bad, or worse, than phones.

[Flyinfool]

Ford is also launching the same thing.

In a couple of years everyone will have it.

Hopefully the hackers will find a way to turn it off as they have done with many other "built in 'features' "

 

I was looking at switching from GM to Ford until I found out they made extra effort to make the eco boost engines very quiet so that they can pipe in a synthetic sound of a healthy V8 through the cabin speakers. They are doing this on the Mustang and the pickups. This engine noise comes in even if the audio system is turned off. Just like door chimes and other alarms still play even with the sound off.

 

ALL of the car makers are going backwards in engine tech. That is why you see all of the transmissions with so many gears. the new engines have a very narrow torque band so they need a lot of gears to try to stay in the sweet spot of rpm.

[MikeWa]

Say isn't GM the company that filed bankruptcy so they wouldn't have to pay back their employees the money they borrowed from them? Yea I would trust them with my life.

 

Mike

[mraf]

I used to be all GM and nothing but GM. But then they took the Gov't handout that ended them for me. :256:As far as these e-Commerce Apps are concerned to me it is just one more nail in yours and my coffin. When I have to cross the road to farm some of my land the number of people not watching the road but looking at some electronic do-dad is scary! Be very careful they drive among us!

[videoarizona]

I'm still good on GM.

 

1: They paid back the gov loan to the penny.

 

2: They make the only truck that has put up with me...towing sailboat thousands of miles without effort. Approaching 197K with all original except batteries, tires, oil and gas.

Still getting 18 to 20 mpg's at 75mph. 12 to 14mpgs towing 2.5 ton boat,

 

3: I've had Fords, Dodges, Chryslers and none have come close to the dependability, quiet cabin, engineering as my 2004 Yukon XL SLT.

 

I may be lucky, but I'm all for another Yukon.

[grubsie]

Still don't have a vehicle with with any kind of touch screen fortunately. I do however, own a 2016 Chevy Express van for my business and I couldn't agree more on things going backwards and setup for the greedy automakers. My wife's car does have a touch screen and I refuse to drive it. It's so distracting and drives me crazy.

 

My van has a a tire pressure monitor system that is pisses me off. Got a flat tire so I changed to the spare tire. Then a "service tire monitor system" comes up on the dash every time I started the van. Got the flat fixed and put the repaired tire back on and still the same message on the screen. Posted the message on youtube and found a simple fix. Unfortunately, GM did away with that fix around 2006 and now a special electronic metering tool is required to reset the system. Your options are the GM dealer, a mechanic shop that has the tool or buy the tool yourself.

 

I found a mechanic that reset the system. Cost me $25.00 for less than 5 minutes work. Can't imagine what the GM dealer charges. Not only do you have to pay to get the flat fixed, but now it costs to reset the tire monitor system any time you get a flat!

[Sylvester]

Still don't have a vehicle with with any kind of touch screen fortunately. I do however, own a 2016 Chevy Express van for my business and I couldn't agree more on things going backwards and setup for the greedy automakers. My wife's car does have a touch screen and I refuse to drive it. It's so distracting and drives me crazy.

 

My van has a a tire pressure monitor system that is pisses me off. Got a flat tire so I changed to the spare tire. Then a "service tire monitor system" comes up on the dash every time I started the van. Got the flat fixed and put the repaired tire back on and still the same message on the screen. Posted the message on youtube and found a simple fix. Unfortunately, GM did away with that fix around 2006 and now a special electronic metering tool is required to reset the system. Your options are the GM dealer, a mechanic shop that has the tool or buy the tool yourself.

 

I found a mechanic that reset the system. Cost me $25.00 for less than 5 minutes work. Can't imagine what the GM dealer charges. Not only do you have to pay to get the flat fixed, but now it costs to reset the tire monitor system any time you get a flat!

 

I can feel for you, my wife has a 2015 Ford Explorer with all the goodies. I only drove it twice. Now my 96 Ford F150 is my ride. No distractions since I can find all necessary knobs and buttons at night and without taking my eyes off the road. Have owned it since new and only has 226k on the clock. Never a let down. Oh living in the past is grand.

 

[CaseyJ955]

Intuitive controls are king, you should be able to operate them blind. I do like nav but all the integrated features by touch screen is bad news. My favorite example is BMW and their i-drive system, its the worst nightmare. I say this as a driver that idolizes BMW as a world class automobile (not car, a Grand Am is a car, barely) Adding something like e-commerce to a GM has nadda to do with the operation of the vehicle, hence it is not only useless to motoring but its a detriment. We have not even considered possible privacy issues, GM can go right over your head and install it regardless of how you feel about it. How does that NOT infuriate GM customers? What else can they install without your knowledge? All this while using the same ol' warmed over crap mechanicals from 10-20 years ago. Nice they can use current tech when it will directly benifet them but does nothing to make the vehicle more competent, to the contrary.

 

It just sucks that domestic mfrs do stuff like this while Germans and Japanese have been light years ahead. VVT, Direct injection gas and diesels, variable intake runners, BMW. DSG gearboxes from Audi, the list of German and Japanese innovation goes on and on... and on. Why does BMW still use a straight six and nobody else? No idea! Drive a late model 3 series and its a question that has no answer. There is NO domestic match for a 3 series. When you drive one and throw it around its undeniably superior automobile crafted from a mfr that IS finding proper uses of technology to benifet the consumer. If your not a "driver" or wealthy, grab an Accord or Camry and drive it for decades. My 22 year old Lexus has more solid build than a Cadillac made yesterday. Why?

 

I know I'm ranting, the issue of automotive design and engeenering is very dear to me. When I heard of GM doing this with the infotainment systems I almost swallowed my tongue knowing how sorely they need to concentrate on other glaring quality and design flaws. At least you can buy them cheap. They are probably sucking in millinials that know zip about cars or have never driven a competent automobile, but all is forgiven if you can control your stupid ****ing phone through the in car distraction screen. I dont get it, I just cant see how free enterprise has been so kind to GM. Oh wait, it hasnt. Free enterprise already shuddered GM once, but we bailed them out.

 

[cowpuc]

We have a huge car lot not far from us whose business, at one time, was almost exclusively built on the repossesion of vehicles whose owners decided not to pay on em any more - my buddies and I called it "Repo World".. A unique feature about this particular lot was the size of the lot and the fact that you could climb in any car and if they would fire up - you could rip around the lot in em (A BLAST!!).. We used to scoot over and hunt for exotic cars to "test drive" on a regular basis. One time I climbed in a boosted Audi all wheel drive while my two buddies were checking out a big van thing to see if we could fit 3 dirt bikes in it.. I remember "boosting" across the back lot at a pretty good clip, hitting the brakes = malfunction, and then having to toss the Audi into a screaching slide to avoid piling it up into a line of repossessed cars .. Right after I did this ladies comes over a speaker inside the car and asked me if I am ok:scared:... After my initial shock I had a real pleasent conversation with her. After she hung up I spun over by my buddies and told em what happened, of course,, they were non believers so I ended up doing another slide near them with the window down so they could talk to the lady too.. Later on the way home, we all chatted about what the world was coming to and how close we were getting to wayyyyyy to much "Big Brother" involvement with even our cars!!

Obviously Casey, I TOTALLY agree with you only, as usual, I even go to a further extreme.. I think this whole discussion is even having a GREATER impact on motorcycling!! This whole touch screen business and computer control nonsense and smart motorcycles that record our every move is wayyyy out of line IMHO.. This ties directly into a comment I recently made in a thread about the new Beemer American being speed limited to 101 mph - NONSENSE IMHO!! Also tied directly to all this was my discussion out at Sturgis about the new Venture = the Reps BIG sell point on the scoot was this whole touch screen business. He didnt appreciate it when I told him my personal opinion about what is happening (being bike or car) with the push toward more distractions for the modern day driver!! He also did not agree with my thoughts of the inherent dangers involved with anytime a driver/rider takes his eyes off the road.. Just makes no sense BUT,, his point that it obviously does sell vehicles so I dont think we are gonna see a reduction in the touch screen movement or the control we loose of our vehicles/lives any time soon:confused24:

[CaseyJ955]

We have a huge car lot not far from us whose business, at one time, was almost exclusively built on the repossesion of vehicles whose owners decided not to pay on em any more - my buddies and I called it "Repo World".. A unique feature about this particular lot was the size of the lot and the fact that you could climb in any car and if they would fire up - you could rip around the lot in em (A BLAST!!).. We used to scoot over and hunt for exotic cars to "test drive" on a regular basis. One time I climbed in a boosted Audi all wheel drive while my two buddies were checking out a big van thing to see if we could fit 3 dirt bikes in it.. I remember "boosting" across the back lot at a pretty good clip, hitting the brakes = malfunction, and then having to toss the Audi into a screaching slide to avoid piling it up into a line of repossessed cars .. Right after I did this ladies comes over a speaker inside the car and asked me if I am ok:scared:... After my initial shock I had a real pleasent conversation with her. After she hung up I spun over by my buddies and told em what happened, of course,, they were non believers so I ended up doing another slide near them with the window down so they could talk to the lady too.. Later on the way home, we all chatted about what the world was coming to and how close we were getting to wayyyyyy to much "Big Brother" involvement with even our cars!!

Obviously Casey, I TOTALLY agree with you only, as usual, I even go to a further extreme.. I think this whole discussion is even having a GREATER impact on motorcycling!! This whole touch screen business and computer control nonsense and smart motorcycles that record our every move is wayyyy out of line IMHO.. This ties directly into a comment I recently made in a thread about the new Beemer American being speed limited to 101 mph - NONSENSE IMHO!! Also tied directly to all this was my discussion out at Sturgis about the new Venture = the Reps BIG sell point on the scoot was this whole touch screen business. He didnt appreciate it when I told him my personal opinion about what is happening (being bike or car) with the push toward more distractions for the modern day driver!! He also did not agree with my thoughts of the inherent dangers involved with anytime a driver/rider takes his eyes off the road.. Just makes no sense BUT,, his point that it obviously does sell vehicles so I dont think we are gonna see a reduction in the touch screen movement or the control we loose of our vehicles/lives any time soon:confused24:

 

Im a huge fan of boosted Audis, my daily driver is a boosted audi and I fall in love again each time I drive. Not to many cars that handle pavement so well and launch like a rocket on loose dirt. NOTHING launches on gravel like a Quattro Audi. Being a lifelong German car nut I will confess to a strategy shared by others like me. Love that German car with more soul than Ottis Redding, but best have a Japanese car somewhere close!

 

Some mfrs use a touch screens to remove focus from the rest of the package being dated, HD and GM come to mind. As tech moves forward im sure most vehicles will have touchscreen, I suspect they will evolve in terms of usability. That or automotive trends will move away from them as we start to see distraction as a problem. I have a bigger problem with the connectivity stuff than the idea of the screen, like you Puc im not cool with big brother. The GM system would not please me at all when they can alter the content of my car as they see fit. I have HUGE issues with that! Whatcha think Puc, should I just go back to Torinos and Baja bugs that could drive through an EMP blast?

 

See, I want the tech for engine management and underpinnings, also used during manufacturing. I can do without all the interior tech that does nothing for how the car runs amd drives. Needless complication.

 

In the case of the Venture I think tbe tech went in all the wrong places. Couldnt agree more on the touch screen, you are 100% spot on. I think they should have been more concerned with performance and less with gizmology. Parking assist, air cooling, touch screen 45 deg twin... Hahahaha seriously!

Edited December 6, 2017 by CaseyJ955

[cowpuc]

Whatcha think Puc, should I just go back to Torinos and Baja bugs that could drive through an EMP blast?

 

See, I want the tech for engine management and underpinnings, also used during manufacturing. I can do without all the interior tech that does nothing for how the car runs amd drives. Needless complication.

Actually Case,, I think those last two lines pretty much sum it all up perfectly from my perspective.. While I TOTALLY loved and miss those days of yesteryear when, on a moments notice, I could pop the hood on my old 351 Cleveland 4 speed fast back Macher, reach under my front seat and grab my Distributor wrench and advance the timing in her just to the point of spark knock to suck every ounce of horse power out of her cause one of my buddies wanted to race = "tweaking" was the name of the game!!

While those days of Mallory ignitions, duel pumpin 4 barrels, cheater slicks on 10inch Cragars, traction bars, Hooker Headers and Sunoco 260 flowing from one of those pumps with the little twist dial selector was, without a doubt, AMAZING and fun,,,, it was also a ton of wrench spinning..

Having gotten lazy in my old age AND having experienced the days you mention of modern machining and modern technology in computerized ignition and fuel control = I opt whole heartedly for your last two lines!!

Actually,, HD had a pretty good thing going there with their Screaming Eagle tuners that recently got totally and completely outlawed.. Like you mentioned in those last two lines = those tuners gave the mechanic the chance to "tweak" both ignition and air/fuel mix to exact proportions with 200 RPM parameters = IMHO,, like jetting and setting points to perfection without getting dirty .. I LIKED that!! Like you,, my problem is when that same technology puts someone other than myself in control - thats where I too have a real problem.. That said,, I think just a simple falling back in time just a tad to lose "Big Brother" and not have our machines ratting us out in any way would be as far back as I think one should go..

My machine = I own it = I decide how fast it goes = if it blows up its my fault = if it goes fast its cause I made it go fast - if I fall over on it no one knows unless I tell em I fell over and on and on.. You and I,, we still live in AMERICA where we really shouldnt even be having this discussion IMHO,, an individuals pursuit of happiness and all that.. Yea,, I am a hard core anti Big Brother no good rat thats for sure ,,, but I love to soooo much:banana:

[djh3]

The wifes 02 Durango and my 96 Ram 2500 have way to simple HVAC controls. A dial controls fan speed, and Durango has slides for heat/cool. To simple to operate I guess for malinials.

[Midrsv]

I tend to disagree with most of you regarding GM. I've owned their large SUVs since 1999. A 99 Yukon, 2003 Tahoe, 2009 Tahoe and now a 2016 Yukon Denali. I put 100,000 miles each of the ones I traded in. I've only experienced a failed wheel bearing on the 2009 Tahoe and a failed AC compressor on the 2003. I hear people say that they are "old" designs. I disagree. There were improvements with each. Prior to buying my current truck, I looked at BMW X5, the Audi Q7 and the Mercedes GL350. In my research did not find that any of those 3 were more reliable than what I had experienced with GM. The BMW and Audi lacked the tow size and tow capacity that i needed. I really did like the Mercedes with a diesel. I talked with a number of owners and just felt I didn't want to risk the repair costs on the Mercedes once out of warranty. I was told by several owners not to own one without a warranty. So I went back to GM. The Denali pulls like a beast with the 6.2L with direct injection, 8 spd transmission and all of the electronic bells and whistles. I make at least 3 round trips to FL each year and tow a 6000 lb trailer. I get 23 mpg at 75mph on the trips without the trailer. I've got an Infiniti Q60 that barely does that. Speaking of the technology. I like it. I have GPS, bluetooth, iphone integration, etc. At first glance it does look intimidating. However, once you get used to it, 90% of the features can be controlled from the steering wheel without removing your hands from the wheel. I set the climate control to the desired temperature and don't touch it from there. If I need to put a destination into my GPS I just go the iPhone app and before I leave the house and send the destinatioin to the in-dash gps. I don't have to futz with it after I'm underway. Integrated in to all of the electronics are additional safety features. Like blind spot monitoring, lane assist that will nudge the wheel a bit if you start to drift out of your lane, warnings if the car in front of you stops or slows too quickly, rain sensing wipers, automatic high beams. When one compares the progression of features on the new Yukon to the old 1999, I don't see how one could say the design is old. The climate and infotainment systems in the German cars were even more confusing at first glance. I am sure with use they could become more user friendly.

 

Now to the original question regarding GM adding tools to order my next cheeseburger, nah, I don't need that. I've got an iPhone to take care of that.

 

Dennis

[CaseyJ955]

Actually Case,, I think those last two lines pretty much sum it all up perfectly from my perspective.. While I TOTALLY loved and miss those days of yesteryear when, on a moments notice, I could pop the hood on my old 351 Cleveland 4 speed fast back Macher, reach under my front seat and grab my Distributor wrench and advance the timing in her just to the point of spark knock to suck every ounce of horse power out of her cause one of my buddies wanted to race = "tweaking" was the name of the game!!

While those days of Mallory ignitions, duel pumpin 4 barrels, cheater slicks on 10inch Cragars, traction bars, Hooker Headers and Sunoco 260 flowing from one of those pumps with the little twist dial selector was, without a doubt, AMAZING and fun,,,, it was also a ton of wrench spinning..

Having gotten lazy in my old age AND having experienced the days you mention of modern machining and modern technology in computerized ignition and fuel control = I opt whole heartedly for your last two lines!!

Actually,, HD had a pretty good thing going there with their Screaming Eagle tuners that recently got totally and completely outlawed.. Like you mentioned in those last two lines = those tuners gave the mechanic the chance to "tweak" both ignition and air/fuel mix to exact proportions with 200 RPM parameters = IMHO,, like jetting and setting points to perfection without getting dirty .. I LIKED that!! Like you,, my problem is when that same technology puts someone other than myself in control - thats where I too have a real problem.. That said,, I think just a simple falling back in time just a tad to lose "Big Brother" and not have our machines ratting us out in any way would be as far back as I think one should go..

My machine = I own it = I decide how fast it goes = if it blows up its my fault = if it goes fast its cause I made it go fast - if I fall over on it no one knows unless I tell em I fell over and on and on.. You and I,, we still live in AMERICA where we really shouldnt even be having this discussion IMHO,, an individuals pursuit of happiness and all that.. Yea,, I am a hard core anti Big Brother no good rat thats for sure ,,, but I love to soooo much:banana:

 

Puck my friend, you and I are going to have to eat some of my slow cooked ribs and ride the Black Hills at some point! Of course anyone reading is invited to come along. I find myself in such agreement which can only mean two things, were both intelligent and very correct, or were both nuttier than a Chinese chicken salad. Either way, what a good time!

 

The wifes 02 Durango and my 96 Ram 2500 have way to simple HVAC controls. A dial controls fan speed, and Durango has slides for heat/cool. To simple to operate I guess for malinials.

The hell you say! Controls without bluetooth connectivity! Say it aint so bro!

 

I would love to keep that simplicity and focus on increasing quality of materials used as time goes on, and less on flashy stuff that drives up the cost of manufacture. My Lexus is a 96 with 200k on the clock and has the simple controls, actually buttons and momentary rockers but simple, reliable, effective a d still work like new. Not much to go wrong. I wonder what the touch screen will look like in 20-30 years, will it fade, stop working, wash out? They can keep the touch screen and instead give me direct injection.

 

Are you coming with Puck and his lovely lady for eats and a weekend ride in the hills?

[baylensman]

I don't think we need to get distracted by your 2004 bowtie being more reliable than someone else 2005 blue oval or 2001 Male sheep. I have over 30 vehicles in the fleet several of the FORDS have well over 250K miles and so do several of the CHEVYS one has almost 350K miles. These are vehicles that are overloaded and driven by guys who don't own them or pay for the repairs. I've also got several NISSAN diesels approaching a half million miles, while the FREIGHTLINER lives in the repair shop.

 

As far as ford and the "SOUND TUBE". Vehicle owners of both V8 cars and the turbo cars complained of not enough engine noise, IE the cars are too quiet and noise is part of feedback or road feel. The sound isn't over the speakers but rather a pipe that ducts under hood noise to the under dash area (first thing you remove when upgrading the super charger or turbos).

 

I've had 1 touch climate control since 1987 is all my cars (FORDS) I've never been confused by the knobs dials sliders or button after the first couple days in the car.

 

The 7" infotainment screen that i had retro fitted to my 96 Mark viii is as easy to ignore as anything else, it flashes and carries on every time a song changes on the radio and even plays the lyrics on some of them, i only use it in reverse.

 

I believe all cars should have a permanently on radio receiver, that can over ride all the systems in the car so that COPS can tell you to get off the damn phone and pull over.

Recent case of a women driving almost 7 miles thru town around various corners and intersections, being chased by police who were trying to let her know that the child in the back seat had gotten out of the seat belt, and was lying on the rear shelf. Her excuse for not pulling over!! Talking to her new boyfriend .

 

Good and careful drivers like us will adapt to the ever changing vehicle layout (its been years since I've gotten my foot caught in the steering wheel trying to turn down the hi beams) While the're will be people who will be unable to handle autonomous vehicle and somehow still mange to crash!

[XV1100SE]

I like tech but to me a vehicle needs to have some degree of performance, reliability, comfort, and quality of finish. The rest is "add-ons" and gizmos.

 

I work for Toyota and until recently had a Toyota Corolla (2013), Honda Civic (2009), and Ford Mustang (2007).

 

Can't beat the power of a V8 under the hood and having the sound "piped" into the passenger compartment suited the car. To hear the roar of the 305hp Ford engine reminded you of the power of the motor, and with a stick shift you could drive by ear listening to the sound rather than watching a tach. (Funny though....my 2009 RSV had the same shift points as far as when to shift based on speed). Comfort...with a sporty car comfort is relative to the type of car you drive. Not as comfortable as a luxury car....but the seats held you in place. Quality and quality of finish was "North American". Plastic dash, lines not "perfect". My brother-in-law worked for Ford warranty a few years ago and said that based on claims the 2007 was a "good" year.

 

With the Corolla I don't like the "drive-by-wire" of the steering - constantly correcting it. Give it gas and you wait, give it more gas, wait, more gas....and the overdrive kicks in. Quality of the car and quality of finish is typical Japanese (or Korean like Hyundai). The standard process, quality control of Toyota can't be beat. Reliability has been great. Previous 2000 Camry I had easily did over 340,000 km.

 

The Civic...they still don't know how to paint a car black. Clear coat cracked on fender and trunk lid. Common issue with Honda paint. Door locks have a poor design and common to replace them (especially drivers door). PITA to repair/replace them. Starter is a common issue - just replaced mine with a remanufactured one and 2 hours labour over $700 including tax. Design/location of the starter requires a lift and dropping exhaust to get at. Reminds me of how GM undersized alternators for years !

 

Have a friend looking at SUV's. Went with her to several dealers - Nissan, GM, Toyota, Hyundai. Nissan was really nice (although someone told me they paint areas you can see but areas like inner fenders don't get painted. GM the door trim was off by at least 1/4" front/back door (sign of quality of the rest of the vehicle). Toyota and Hyundai were equivalent in quality.

 

As for gadgets...keep in mind that (at one time) you had to take your vehicle in to the dealer to get GPS maps updated...and billed for it. And the old saying goes, the more gadgets the more to go wrong. Look at refrigerators with ice makers...even new ones break frequently even though they've had ice makers for years.

[BigLenny]

I tend to disagree with most of you regarding GM. I've owned their large SUVs since 1999. A 99 Yukon, 2003 Tahoe, 2009 Tahoe and now a 2016 Yukon Denali. I put 100,000 miles each of the ones I traded in. I've only experienced a failed wheel bearing on the 2009 Tahoe and a failed AC compressor on the 2003. I hear people say that they are "old" designs. I disagree. There were improvements with each. Prior to buying my current truck, I looked at BMW X5, the Audi Q7 and the Mercedes GL350. In my research did not find that any of those 3 were more reliable than what I had experienced with GM. The BMW and Audi lacked the tow size and tow capacity that i needed. I really did like the Mercedes with a diesel. I talked with a number of owners and just felt I didn't want to risk the repair costs on the Mercedes once out of warranty. I was told by several owners not to own one without a warranty. So I went back to GM. The Denali pulls like a beast with the 6.2L with direct injection, 8 spd transmission and all of the electronic bells and whistles. I make at least 3 round trips to FL each year and tow a 6000 lb trailer. I get 23 mpg at 75mph on the trips without the trailer. I've got an Infiniti Q60 that barely does that. Speaking of the technology. I like it. I have GPS, bluetooth, iphone integration, etc. At first glance it does look intimidating. However, once you get used to it, 90% of the features can be controlled from the steering wheel without removing your hands from the wheel. I set the climate control to the desired temperature and don't touch it from there. If I need to put a destination into my GPS I just go the iPhone app and before I leave the house and send the destinatioin to the in-dash gps. I don't have to futz with it after I'm underway. Integrated in to all of the electronics are additional safety features. Like blind spot monitoring, lane assist that will nudge the wheel a bit if you start to drift out of your lane, warnings if the car in front of you stops or slows too quickly, rain sensing wipers, automatic high beams. When one compares the progression of features on the new Yukon to the old 1999, I don't see how one could say the design is old. The climate and infotainment systems in the German cars were even more confusing at first glance. I am sure with use they could become more user friendly.

 

Now to the original question regarding GM adding tools to order my next cheeseburger, nah, I don't need that. I've got an iPhone to take care of that.

 

Dennis

 

Dennis,

 

Thank you thank you thank you, for your well thought out description of today's automobile. Everything you described I have and use the same way in my Crew Cab F150. And......I LOVE IT!! The technological features in today's vehicles are nothing short of amazing, and wonderful to use IF, and this is a big IF, you open your mind to the possibility of learning and using them. That is really the main issue at hand here; Old folks get stuck in their ways and don't like change and learn new things and ways of doing things. I am no different than that in a lot of areas of my life. However, I live in my vehicle 12 hours a day. I am a sales rep, so my truck is my office, and I have completely enjoyed most of the new technological advances we've seen in vehicles in the past decade or so. I get it, there are some things that I too believe were better back in the day, but overall quality of vehicles are unquestionably at an all time high.

 

I'm not young. I'm 55 years old. I remember all of the stuff some have described here, with setting my own points and timing, and wrenching on my rig a lot, etc. But, I am truly amazed at what automobiles have become. Now, if GM wants market food searches and such on their infotainment systems, and make a profit while doing it, heck, let em try it. I won't ever use the feature, I use my phone for that.

 

I'm not gonna get into a big discussion about brands and such. I have owned several, including 2 different BMW's as mentioned in other posts. To each his own on what he wants to drive. Do I believe some brands are better quality than others, sure, maybe, but I have also accomplished high mileage in models (Ford Taurus 318,000 miles, Chevy Impala 327,000 miles) that are commonly considered not quite as good as others, and I've had a model (Toyota Camry) that experience a catastrophic transmission failure at 54,000 miles).

 

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

Big Lenny

[CaseyJ955]

I like tech but to me a vehicle needs to have some degree of performance, reliability, comfort, and quality of finish. The rest is "add-ons" and gizmos.

 

I work for Toyota and until recently had a Toyota Corolla (2013), Honda Civic (2009), and Ford Mustang (2007).

 

Can't beat the power of a V8 under the hood and having the sound "piped" into the passenger compartment suited the car. To hear the roar of the 305hp Ford engine reminded you of the power of the motor, and with a stick shift you could drive by ear listening to the sound rather than watching a tach. (Funny though....my 2009 RSV had the same shift points as far as when to shift based on speed). Comfort...with a sporty car comfort is relative to the type of car you drive. Not as comfortable as a luxury car....but the seats held you in place. Quality and quality of finish was "North American". Plastic dash, lines not "perfect". My brother-in-law worked for Ford warranty a few years ago and said that based on claims the 2007 was a "good" year.

 

With the Corolla I don't like the "drive-by-wire" of the steering - constantly correcting it. Give it gas and you wait, give it more gas, wait, more gas....and the overdrive kicks in. Quality of the car and quality of finish is typical Japanese (or Korean like Hyundai). The standard process, quality control of Toyota can't be beat. Reliability has been great. Previous 2000 Camry I had easily did over 340,000 km.

 

The Civic...they still don't know how to paint a car black. Clear coat cracked on fender and trunk lid. Common issue with Honda paint. Door locks have a poor design and common to replace them (especially drivers door). PITA to repair/replace them. Starter is a common issue - just replaced mine with a remanufactured one and 2 hours labour over $700 including tax. Design/location of the starter requires a lift and dropping exhaust to get at. Reminds me of how GM undersized alternators for years !

 

Have a friend looking at SUV's. Went with her to several dealers - Nissan, GM, Toyota, Hyundai. Nissan was really nice (although someone told me they paint areas you can see but areas like inner fenders don't get painted. GM the door trim was off by at least 1/4" front/back door (sign of quality of the rest of the vehicle). Toyota and Hyundai were equivalent in quality.

 

As for gadgets...keep in mind that (at one time) you had to take your vehicle in to the dealer to get GPS maps updated...and billed for it. And the old saying goes, the more gadgets the more to go wrong. Look at refrigerators with ice makers...even new ones break frequently even though they've had ice makers for years.

 

I had no idea Hyundai/Kia were comparable to Toyota and Honda. I knew they were catching up. I have massive respect for Toyota, cemented by how well the LS400 is put together. Its almost like an S class except everything works and nothing ever breaks. I have full service history and I cant find one single instance of unscheduled service. I had to do the PS pump, it had a slight groan at 188k. Its evident how much R&D Toyota did on this car, being the first Lexus model introduced to the public. It really shows what a car mfr can do when they really strive to make the best car humanly possible. At 200k it runs and drives like a new car and I really have to wrestle the keys away from wifey. The moment I came home with the Audi she snatched up my lexus. She was forced out of it today by 6" of fresh snow (RWD) and back into her Acura. It often gets comments from passangers about how eerily quiet and well composed it is.

 

I know just about any vehicle made in the last 10 yrs should last 100k miles and double that with proper maintainance and no abuse. Just as you helped someone shop for cars you were able to see which mfrs really had their hearts into making an excellent car and which others are trying to gain appeal with flashy features. How a car brakes, turns, glides and just feels in your hands is something hard to quantify but its palpable and more important than any feature list. Also does it still feel that way after a quarter million miles.

 

Im really glad so many are having great luck with the domestics, we absolutly adore the F150s in the family and at work, they outlasted all the other domestics 2:1. But I must say this, if everything were designed and built like Toyota/Lexus auto technicians would be only marginally more in demand than Telegraphists.

[snyper316]

I have chevy tahoe pretty simple no on star but an anoying problem with the radio due to my stereo being after market... I ever tell you all I LOVE AND MISS MY FORDS!!!

[snyper316]

I used to love the nissans and other Japenese vehicles, then all the sudden they started crammng everything in very small spaces where you had to remove wheels and axles, gm started doing this anyone ever change a battery in a 2000 lumina.... or try to change headlight bulb on a HHR? Tarded to say the least. Did I say I miss my fords I can sit under the hood and change out the spark plugs without gadgets... I like FORDS!!! 90 or older....

[CaseyJ955]

I used to love the nissans and other Japenese vehicles, then all the sudden they started crammng everything in very small spaces where you had to remove wheels and axles, gm started doing this anyone ever change a battery in a 2000 lumina.... or try to change headlight bulb on a HHR? Tarded to say the least. Did I say I miss my fords I can sit under the hood and change out the spark plugs without gadgets... I like FORDS!!! 90 or older....

 

I love me a Nissan old enough to be called a Datsun. Whats cooler than a 240z or a roadster? So simple that cruise or AC was as unlikely as power windows or locks, much less a touchscreen.

 

If discussing the advantages of simplicity we have to at least give mention to the simplest car since rims were no longer wood, the least powerful car that was fun to drive, a car with unparalleled versatility and durability (barring collision), can go virtually anywhere you point it and catch air many many times before breaking. A car than can be serviced with a rusty pliar and dull screwdriver in the middle of the night, in the middle of the woods. Yup, I'm quite sure. The VW Type I. 19+ million units produced over 60+ years, had/built several Baja bugs over the years.

 

There is no touch screen but you do get the following standard;

Fuel gauge controlled by a cable and manual sending unit.

Windshield washer that relies on pressure from the spare tire. Never a clean windshield or inflated spare.

Heater boxes and a doghouse fan charged with both cooling engine and heating the interior, sort of.

1641cc air cooled flat four weighing 240 lbs and 40hp before the goodies. (009, Webber, Tri-mil stinger)

Thats it, its all thats needed. Dr. Ferdinand Porsche knew what needed to be done. Genius

 

What I dont get about e-commerce is if I wanted a coffee from Charbucks and used the screen to order wouldn't I still have to go get it and wait in line to overpay for a virtually undrinkable cappuccino? Is this going to save something or just add another step? If a barista is going to run it up to my window while I'm waiting for the green arrow in the intersection then I'll reconsider this. Im sure more will be revealed in time, I wonder how intrusive it will be or if using PayPal on my dash will be less of a hassle than just paying at the window.

 

If anyone here has a vehicle with this can we please get some commentary on initial setup, level of intrusiveness, opt-outs, pay and order functions, and how exactly you first got it or noticed it.

[cowpuc]

:sign yeah that::sign yeah that:

 

and I cant help but wonder if anyone remembers those AWESOME J.C. Higgins,,,, I mean Witney,,, catalogs with a complete section of nothing but Bug Parts?? SOOO COOL!! You could completely rebuild a Dub with new crank, jugs, pistons, heads, push rods = give me the works partner - for under 200 bucks

Man those were the days!!

Talk about a RIOT in the woods and endlessly fun for doing circles in a parking lot to get er up on 2 wheels and see how far you could drive it like that.. Never in motoring history has 40 horse produced so much fun (car wise - bike wise a little 18 horse, tank shifting HD beats it). They were amazinly durable too for an air cooled, rear engined bugster.. I beat a 64 to death and, even with its crankshaft having so much end play that when I opened the hood cause I heard a scraping noise and had snow flakes of aluminum flcwing all over as the crank pulley ground into the motor, she kept right on running like a top!!

I must have been a people back in my youth cause that little peoples car was my kind of fun - meep meep !!

Edited December 7, 2017 by cowpuc
I must really be slippin,, I wrote J.C. Higgins while I was thinkin J.C. Witney LOL

[XV1100SE]

JD Power 2017 Initial Quality Ratings and Awards - http://www.jdpower.com/cars/awards/Initial-Quality-Study-by-Segment/2410ENG

Top SUV - Kia Sorento

Small SUV - Kia Niro

Compact Car - Kia Forte

Small Preimium Car - BMW 2 Series

Midsize Premium Car - Lexus GS

Compact Premium Car - BMW 4 Series

Midsize Car - Toyota Camry

Large SUV - Ford Expedition

Midsize Sporty Car - Ford Mustang

 

(BTW....Kia is owned by Hyundai)

 

Quality by Make - http://www.jdpower.com/ratings/study/Initial-Quality-Study-%28IQS%29-by-Make/2430ENG