First Gen valve adjustment, boost sensor and TCI service, first timer

[Flyinfool]

Yes you need to sure that you have good solder connections to both sides of the board. If you fire it up in the bike with a bad solder joint it will be the same as a blown diode and it will fry the TCI.

 

Normally the holes are plated thru so that both sides of the board are electrically connected thru each hole this is why the factory only has to solder the back side of the board. once you damage a pad you are breaking the connection that goes through the hole in the board so it is now up to you to make sure that you are properly connected on both sides.

 

As for getting Kero, I still get it at the local gas station just down the block. they have no sign out, you just have to spot the pump hiding in the back corner of the lot.

https://www.yellowpages.com/owego-ny/kerosene-gas-stations

[Geobob]

So we learned something new tonight that I think is worth pointing out. I don't think I read about it anywhere. Maybe it is as obvious as taking the part out to the package before trying to install but I spend a couple of minute turning the dam thing around and looking up in there to figure out why it would not settle into place. I am talking about the new valve cover gasket. I am assuming it goes without saying that the rubber bridge in the middle needs to be removed. Feel free to correct me or laugh at me.

 

[skydoc_17]

Hey Bob,

I personally make it a habit of always "Laughing With" a forum member working on his motorcycle, NEVER at them! You are correct, you need to snip the connecting strip off between the gasket surfaces. These strips are in the gasket die to help with the flow of the rubber, they are not part of the actual gasket assembly. The saving grace here is the fact that the valve cover can't be installed with the strips in place. Give yourself credit for figuring this out on your own.

The fact that you performed this maintenance without taking your bike to a dealer is HUGE! I hope that others have been following this thread, and will have the courage to work on their own bikes as a results of your project.

Congrats on a job well done!

Earl

[Geobob]

In has been a while since I posted anything about my progress but years from now when someone is reading through this they will never notice.

 

The photos are meant to document the testing of my new diodes. It became clear that testing of continuity was a good idea.

 

Here is what I learned.

 

It is not as easy to get a dot of solder to sit on that hole where the diode lead passes through. Maybe with the right solder, past and iron heat it works better but it is not as simple as joining to wires together. Lower heat setting on the iron seemed to be the way to go since a hot iron on a plastic board with a thin film of copper on it is probably not a good idea.

 

Some of my connection points were apparently damage from the removal (how that happens?) so while it looked like they blob of solder was holding the diode in place it was not making good contact.

 

I found that if you dig and grind hard enough you can drive the probe from the meter through the green paint into the copper below and get a reading.

 

If you leave the leads from the diode sticking out you can attach a meter lead to it with an alligator clip and then go looking for a place to dig the other probe into.

 

I did have to make one repair of the copper plating on the board, or I think I did because I could not see any other contact between the diode and some path on the board. If anyone know differently please let me know before I seal this thing back up and reinstall it.

 

The frist photos shows that mess of a repair I made. I was wondering about what amount of resistant is indicative of a bad connection. Some show as low as 0.06 ohms while others show a couple of ohs. Has me wondering about my repair. Maybe I'll have to take another look at the connections and readings.

The rest of the photos show different placed I check for continuity. I did have a second location that needed more solder before a continuity was achieved. From what I understand after reading what has been posted on this forum, if any of these are bad or fail it will cause irreparable damage to the board an the bike will not run. Isn't preventative maintenance great. So why was I replacing these. Oh ya, because I could or more accurately, I could get to the unit. Actually my bike was running on two cylinders when it would get washed or rained on. That was supposedly just a moisture issue. What ever happens will happen at least it won't be reinstalled under the coils. I will be find a home for it on top of the air box cover. That way if it fails it will be easy enough to replace.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Geobob]

reassembly has begun and of coarse i cannot remember where this part goes and I cannot find it on any parts diagram. You would not think it would be that hard to figure out but I am at a loss. I figure eventually I might see but I could well past the point of installation so now would be a good time to figure it out. The dam thing even has a label noting "Front" with an arrow. I must getting to old for this.

[snyper316]

Picture of other side but I am wanting to say behind the radiator, not where the hose one is but this sits in there some place, I know not much help but I am pretty sure that is where the goes, HEY cowpuc can you confirm on tweeks? I am thinking kinda like a sheild for the sensor and TCI box...

[bongobobny]

That should be the front heat shield that goes over the top of the spark plugs! There are 2 of those plastic shields, one for the front two plugs, and one for the rear two plugs! They are primarily to keep engine heat from radiating upwards from the exhaust pipes...

[snyper316]

That should be the front heat shield that goes over the top of the spark plugs! There are 2 of those plastic shields, one for the front two plugs, and one for the rear two plugs! They are primarily to keep engine heat from radiating upwards from the exhaust pipes...

 

Does the 88s not have the hoses coming out of the heads? The one on mine has like caps for the bolts and has slot and holes for the hoses, I know its a sheild but without taking tinker apart I can not see where this one goes but i am pretty sure its in the front.

[Geobob]

I can tell you that the two larger shields are in place and really can only go in one way since they have the holes for the hoses. I have been trying to fit this thing in some how up in the front in a manner that will shield the TCI and ignition advance but so far I cant see how it will stay in place. I am thinking if I had the TCI box in place maybe it will grab on to it since it has two prongs on the sides that look like they would hold it in place. It also has a rubber lip on both ends that suggest is sits over the plastic shield on the head but I cannot for the life of me see how it is held in place or where it should really go. I can see a whole lot of place that it cannot fit. And that dam arrow and front label really should make this easy.

 

I could not find any diagram in the manual or on the parts schematics that show it. I am laughing at myself and cursing this bike at the same time. The other night I dropped one of the head cover bolts down the back side of the motor. Heard it hit the exhaust collector, found it but it took me 30 min or longer to get it out of there. If I had not had such a hard time years ago taking the rear headers and collector off, I would have started taking it off to get that bolt. At least I could find it. There have been a number of battery nuts that have dropped into the abyss never to be seen again. It really hard to attach a battery cable without that nut or bolt.

 

I also found an electrical connector tab laying on the stand. I have to post a photo of that one just for laughs. I am looking the thing just shaking my head saying where in the hell did that fall out of. It looks like it has to have fallen out of a block connector. I have never seen one fall out of a connector.

 

I am also wondering how I am going to fit the new fuse block and TCI box on top of the air filter as suggested. Anyone have a photo of that little engineering accomplishment. I also have the two accessory blocks to mount. Maybe I will have to put something onto of the battery to mount things on. I have a lithium battery for the bike now and it is really much smaller so there is room to stuff things around it but it has gotton very ugly in there.

 

Thanks for the help guys

[snyper316]

OK i found my build with 2nd fuse block on top of TCI I will see if I can find this notorious plastic piece tomorrow... I also want to add I took my jig saw out and cut the tabs off my TCI box so i could cramb it against the battery, then I put this spare fuse block and centered on top of that and as far forward as i could get it, then but my Faux tank cover on.. I hope this helps, I now have aftermarket TCI and a little different Fuse block with ground tabs attached to top of that, I picked up from local auto parts store I like it as it makes it easier to add things. THe aftmarket is sitting beside the glove box/radiator over flow in the fairing. So all that is on my airbox now is that new fuse/ground block.

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by snyper316

[Geobob]

Very clean looking set up. That makes a lot of sense that the new fuse block sits there and not on the air box. I don't know where I got that idea from.

[snyper316]

Very clean looking set up. That makes a lot of sense that the new fuse block sits there and not on the air box. I don't know where I got that idea from.

Yeah I just screwed the replacement to the original holder over a block of wood just in case not to pierce the battery. But it don't stick out the other side to bad if you find right sized screw.

 

Sent from my LG-K371 using Tapatalk

[7 lakes]

reassembly has begun and of coarse i cannot remember where this part goes and I cannot find it on any parts diagram. You would not think it would be that hard to figure out but I am at a loss. I figure eventually I might see but I could well past the point of installation so now would be a good time to figure it out. The dam thing even has a label noting "Front" with an arrow. I must getting to old for this.http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=111650

 

The three pieces that make up that assembly are in the factory frame group diagram, upper left corner. They are Cover 5, Cover 6 and Cover 7 in the parts list, #s 29, 30 and 31 on the diagram. On the diagram for my 84 they show them floating above the center of the engine, I would go out to the shop and look for ya but a surprise foot of snow and a warm fire are preventing that from happening for a while. If it helps, I just had the radiator, valve covers, heat shields etc. and all bodywork off mine without running into those. Maybe look above the carbs?

 

Hope that helps

 

Tim

 

Edit: Just found this thread with the answer and photos -

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?127841-Plastic-thingy-came-loose-under-the-fairing

Edited February 18, 2018 by 7 lakes

[snyper316]

Yep where I said I thought it belonged.... I totally forgot about that thread good eye...

[Geobob]

You guys are just the absolute best help. I have been looking and trying to fit it in somewhere in that area but for the life of me could not make a logical decision on where it would go. I may have mentioned this before but I picked up a Honda v4 magna and took it apart to clean the tank and carbs. I had to go video tape a friends to figure out it went back together. Ridiculously complicated and a service manual that is not as detailed as needed. This beast is going to be off the stand today.

[Geobob]

My first thought is I mixed up some spark plug wires but is that even possible. The routing of the wires as I recall don't allow for crossing them over the motor. This leave the possibility of the new vacuum advance not working properly (i did not bench test it) or I messed up the TCI sodering the new diodes. I suppose there is any number of other things I could have done during the valve adjustment but I will be dammed if I can think of what it could be. Any ideas would be helpful. And by the way it did run before I work on it LOL. Just did not advance the timing

[Flyinfool]

Well if it is backfiring that means that there is spark happening. Double check which cylinders go where, it is possible to get it wrong.

[Geobob]

I guess I should have tried starting it before I put all the dam panels back on.

[Geobob]

So I looked at the plug wires and they are all on the correct plugs. The back to still have the numbers visible and the front looks like you could not get one side to reach the other. I check to see if I was getting a spark and #1 showed what appeared to be a good spark, #3 in front of it looked week and 2 and 4 on the other side showed no spark. Could this be a problem with the TCI that serviced. I have never had a problem with a TCI box so I don't know what it really controls. I suspect it controls ignition which is not happening very well now. On the bright side it is easy to get at now that its sitting on top of the air box. Maybe i should pull the tank cover off an look at those block connectors.

[Flyinfool]

Did you unplug the wires from the primary sides of the coils. The connections can get messed up there also.

If you have 2 cyl with NO spark, that is not a wiring mix up. It is possible that you have some bad solder joints in the TCI. Is there a solder experienced person somewhere near you that can help to be sure you have good connections? If not you should be able to find someone on this site that you could send it to to take a look.

[Geobob]

I did not mess with the coil connections but that does not mean they could be loose. I checked those welds with a meter several time but I does seem like the likely problem. It is easy enough to ship but it is all sealed up. I would love to get a second opinion on it from someone on here. Once again I left with the feeling that if it aint broke don't fix it. I should probably have just sealed it up and moved it to top of the air box.

[Geobob]

I checked things over again and definetly have spark on 1 and 3 and no spark on 2 and 4. I check the voltage at the TCI lead for what appears to be the wires leading to the coils. All four had 12 volts. I assume the TCI breaks that voltage to generate the spark. I guess that is the next check. Just have to figure out how to check that. All the other leads at the TCI showed only a little voltage as I could tell with the ignition on.

 

The hot wires leading to the coils all appear to have two black bands on them. I think it was a yellow, orange, red? and white? I need to look more closely at the schematic in the manual but the orange definitively leads to the coil for the left front cylinder. That was one I could get an eye on.

 

At this point I either going to tear that box back open and look again at the solder connections. I did test them all so I am not sure what I will see. When these diodes fail or are not working properly what damage does it do. I am thinking if I installed them improperly then it is the same as if they went bad? If that is the case then have I damaged the TCI beyond repair and just need to find another one. I guess they could fail and by no longer acting as a diode and that could do the damage. I doubt that occurred. So maybe just re-soldering them might fix the problem.

 

Any ideas.

And if anyone wants to try my TCI on their bike I will be happy to send it to you.

[cimmer]

Does your tachometer work when the bike is running? It used the #2 coil to detect spark and give a reading, this also drives the fuel pump relay. These bike use a wasted spark ignition so that would explain why both 2 and 4 are not firing as I believe they use the same circuit in the ignitor unit. If you open the ignitor back up you should have solder joints that are nice and shiny and not a dull gray. You can verify the diodes with a ohm meter and make sure they are good.

I would also try and verify I am getting the proper voltage thru the coil on the 12v side. See if you can hook up a wire to the gray wire, Gy, on the #2 coil and still keep the coil connected. Hook the other end of this wire to the postive probe of a DVM set to 20VDC and the negative end of the probe to ground. Next start the motor and look for any rise or drop in voltage. If I recall, these coils fire with the loss of the 12 volts across the primary. So what the ignitor unit is doing is openning the circuit to fire the spark plug. You should see this one your DVM by the change in voltage. You might see if rise to 12v but it should show some change. An old analog meter would be better but those are harder to find. Not sure if this will tell you a lot of not but it might be worth a try.

 

Hope this help.

Rick F.

[Geobob]

This helps a lot. I will use it to investigate. If you look back you can see the photos of the solder joints and the testing with the DVM for resistance between the joint and someplace else on the board. I cannot get the bike to start which is concerning since it has run on two cylinders before when the TCI was wet. I did hear the full pump kick on when I first tried to start it and after I drained the carbs. I did not hear it today but I suspect the carbs were still full. Getting at the coil wires at the coils is a project but getting at them at the TCI is easy now. I'll look at testing them at the TCI which is on the air box. I assume I can roll the motor over with the starter and check the voltage to the coil and see if it fluctuates. I can also look at the other coil wire since it is working.

 

I was also thinking about checking voltage inside the TCI after I open it up again while turning the bike over.

 

So if I understand correctly the TCI should be breaking the 12volt charge to the coils while the motor is running or being turned over by the starter. That makes sense. That should be easy to check at the TCI. I might have an old analog meter. I assume you can see the swing on those better than trying see the digital meter change readings as the coils cycles.

[Geobob]

I hooked up the volt meter to the grey wire (with two black bands) and turned on ignition. Got the 12 volts and hit the starter and watched the volt meter drop and flutter around 2-3 volts. I got the same readings on the Yellow wire (with two black bands). I also hear the fuel pump cycling on. I guess i have to look at the coils. I cannot stop thinking about one block connector that did not seem to have a mate that I noticed on the left side of the bike near the seat. I cannot see how it relates to the coil for the two left hand cylinders. Is anyone familiar with an unused connection. I post a photo of it when I can bring myself to take the body work back off.