First Gen valve adjustment, boost sensor and TCI service, first timer

[Geobob]

The title of the thread says what I am up to today. Any input will be helpful.

 

A little background first. I have owned and maintained this bike for about 25 years and used this forum with great success in the past.

 

I did some research and determined I probably have a problem with my "boost sensor" and I found the proceedure for repairing it. I am planning on trying that once I get it out.

 

I also have had problems with the bike running on 2 cylinders after it got wet or washed. If I run it long enough it drys out and works fine. I believe I have learned from this forum that my problem is the TCI getting moisture in it. I plan on pulling out, opening it up and baking it. Then sealing it back up with something and relocating it and the boost sensor to probably the inside of the fairing or the top of the air box. The top of the air box sounds easiest but I have not replaced the old fuse holder yet so things are getting a bit ugly under there. So we might go for next to the radio on the right side of the fairing. That might be accessible without pulling the outside fairing panel off.

 

The questions that I still not sure of is, should I just cut the two parts out or try to unscrew them.

 

I am also going to replace the valve cover gaskets. I assume it makes sense to check and adjust valves (85k on the bike). Where is the best place these days to get or exchange shims.

 

I also found a great read from 7VGoose (I think) that covers valve adjustment on a second generation venture. I am assuming it it very similar to with the exception of removing the gas tank. That one throw me. Then I figured out he was talking about a second generation venture LOL. The shop manual does not even address removal of the gas tank on first gen. So the big question is do I really have to remove the carbs or should I remove the carbs. It really looks like a lot of place to have something go wrong. I am kind of like the idea of leaving well enough alone until it has to be delt with. On the other hand if there is some real benefit to do removing them then does the procedure outlined in the write up apply well enough to the first generation venture. Or is there another write up on here that I just have not found.

 

Any help is always greatly appreciated.

 

Bob

[Flyinfool]

Lots of questions.

 

For the TCI.

As long ass you will have it out open it up and there are 8 diodes often have the leads corrode which causes them to fail. When one of these diodes fails, they will fry the TCI. It is good PM to replace them while you are in there. There are a few articles on how to do this. It is not hard if you already know which end of the soldering iron to hold.

As for its location. the stock wire harness is long enough to put the TCI on top of the air box which will keep it high and dry. To me that means it is always there in my way. I put my TCI in the left fairing, I have a standard so there is plenty of room and the stock wires will reach, but you will have to cut a hole in the inside of the fairing to pass the wires thru, I do not know if there is room in a Royal. I do not think that the stock wire harness will reach the right fairing.

 

Try to unscrew the parts. On mine I was able to get one screw out, the other was already rounded out by the PO probably trying to use a #2 Phillips driver in a #3 JIS screw. So I had to cut one of the mounting ears off to get it out.

 

For the valve cover gaskets and shims,

Contact @skydoc_17 on this site to get the gaskets (you want the gaskets for the 2nd gen, they are easier to get in) He used to also have a kit with the shims and the shim tool to loan out to those that bought the parts from him. There is a lot less disassembly needed on the 1st gen to do the valves, If your carbs are fine, dont touch them they are old and you can mess up a perfectly good one by messing with it. On a 1st gen you only have to pull the side panels, the lower fairing and the 2 plastic parts that sit on top of the engine. while all that is apart is a good time to do a carb sync.

 

As far as once you get the valve covers off the procedure for adjusting is exactly the same between 1st and 2nd gen.

[BlueSky]

This Yamaha video covers valve adjustment.

 

[gaj1917]

Re valves - here's a link to a source that helped me do the valves on my '84. http://www.venturers.org/Tech_Library/index.php?action=article&cat_id=001008&id=412

[skydoc_17]

Hey Bob,

I am sure everyone appreciates the kind words about this forum, I personally have found the info here extremely useful over the years. I also want to commend you for keeping your bike running all these years, I have an 87'VR and 89'VR and have been successful keeping both of these bikes running using the helpful tips from this forum. Now, about your projects.

I offer my shop shim kit out for loan to the VR.ORG members at NO CHARGE. I ask that you purchase a set of Valve Cover Gaskets from me (which I keep in stock) and you pay for the shipping of the Shim Kit to you, and the return shipping with Insurance. If you are interested in this, please feel free to PM me.

Next, In the Member Vendor's section of the Classifieds, I offer a First Gen. Fuse Box Upgrade Kit, here is the link to that kit:

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/photopost/showproduct.php?product=59&title=first-gen-vr-fuse-box-upgrade-kit&cat=17

 

When I moved my TCI to the Air Box location, I was able to remove the battery box, and I snipped the tabs off of the TCI, the mounting bolts were rusted solid, and I was not able to get the TCI unbolted. I then clipped the cable ties which held the TCI wire harness to the side of the mount and rerouted the wiring harness up to the Air Box. I used Velcro on the top of the Air Box, and the bottom of the TCI to mount the TCI on top of the Air Box. When I need to replace the Air Filter, I pull the TCI off of the Air Box, replace the filter, then reattach the TCI with the Velcro.

As far as the removal of the Valve covers goes, I have never removed anything other than the plastic side covers, the false tank cover, the metal cross bar,and the lower legs of the fairing which gives me more than enough room to get the valve covers out. I use a 1/4" drive ratchet and socket to get the Valve Cover Grommet bolts out. After the removal, I clean the Valve Covers really well, I use the "BLUE" gasket sealer in the groove of the Valve Cover, install the gasket in the Valve Cover, flip the Valve Cover upside down on a clean, flat surface, and place a book or other weight on top of the Valve Cover and let the gasket sealer set up over night. Now you don't have to worry about the gasket falling out of the Valve Cover when you go to reinstall the Valve Covers. I personally do not use gasket sealer on the engine side of the Valve Cover Gasket! I have found that the rear Valve Cover is the "challenge" on this project, It is a tight fit to say the least. Don't be afraid to use a rubber mallet during the removal of the Valve Covers and old gaskets. If it is the original set, the Yamahabond on those gaskets may need a little "bump" to get it to break loose. I also use flat washers on the grommets if I am not going to replace them. The number of washers depends on how Squished the grommets are at the time of the removal.

As far as the Boost Sensor goes, it either works, or it don't. It can be tested. I can't think of any reason to relocate it, it gets decent cooling in it's stock location, and is not effected by moisture, as it is a sealed system. (Vacuum) Both of my First Gens. have had the TCI relocated, but the Boost Sensor is in the stock location on both. I have had to replace the sensor on the 89'VR once. All of the projects you are going to do are going to require a medium to high amount of patience! The skill level is moderate, but if you get "heavy handed" during the performance of these maintenance items, you will be spending some extra time repairing "broken stuff"! I like to do projects like this one at a time, and when I feel my patience starting to disappear, I TAKE A BREAK! Then I return to the project with "fresh eyes", and renewed vigor. During these projects, please feel free to PM me if you have any questions, or if I can help you with the shim kit loan.

In the beginning, I was my own worst enemy, I punished myself for not taking my time and doing a good job. As I have gotten older, I have "slowed my roll"! Now, I take my time, I take a break when I get tired, or mad, I don't skimp on the quality of parts I use, and I have found that most of the time, I fix things ONCE, without breaking anything else, and without beating myself up, and I end up with the results I was looking for. This method works really well for me, perhaps it will work well for you too. Sorry to get so "windy" in my explanation of these vital maintenance projects, but I want you to feel that you can do these jobs yourself, and if you need help, ALL of the members of this forum are here to help you! Who could ask for more than that!

Earl

[Geobob]

You guys are the best, I have to make it to one of your tech parties before we all get to old. So I tested the boost sensor. At first I got 2.17 volts as it should. I pulled a vac with my break bleeder pump up to 60 cm hg (600mm Hg) and the voltage dropped to like .9 or something like that. It definetly did not go up. I tried to retest but after pulling the vac it read 12-13 volt which was the same as the battery I was using. So something shorted out after the test. I tried blowing in the tube to put a positive pressure on it and see if I got any change but nothing. I took the hose apart at the check valve or what ever it is and no difference. I guess this means I need to repair or replace. Are they available and inexpensive these days? I found the write up on repairing so I though I would open it up in the morning just to see what going on in there.

 

The TCI came off with the boost sensor with no problems thank god. I opened it up and so far it just looks like some crusty goo on the back side. I have to take a few more internal screws out to look at the working side. If I can figure out how to post a photo I'll send a photo.

[Geobob]

Before I break something can anyone tell me if there is any reason why I cannot lift this board up now that I taken out all the screws and the four nuts.and does anyone have an exact part number for the diods that I assume are apparent on the other side of this board. I think I have ordered from Mouser electric before based on a recommendation here

[Flyinfool]

The diodes that you need are 1N400x The X can be any number and it will work fine. they are a buck each, I found a bag of 100 for $5 and you need 8 of them. It is a very common diode and I do use them for a lot of things.

 

The nuts did not have to come off, they are just to hold the transistors to the board on the other side.

 

There are 2 ways to get to the other side depending on your skill and preference.

 

1. Remove the solder from the connector pins so that you can lift the board off the pins. If you are good at soldering and desoldering this is not to bad, but remember that this is a 30 year old board and there is a good chance of damaging or lifting the pads in this process. Of course when you are done o nthe other side of the board you will also have to resolder all of the pins and repair any damaged pads.

 

2. make a shallow cut thru the case so that just the connector end will remain on the board. When you are done and and closing up the case you will have to seal the cut to keep moisture and dirt out. Be very careful to only cut through the case and not any of the components on the board.

 

As soon as you get it opened put the 4 nuts back on to hold down the transistors.

 

That brown gooey looking stuff all over is actually put their by the factory to help protect the board.

 

When I put mine back together I sealed up the cut line in the case and the 2 air holes to help keep it dry in there.

[Geobob]

The diodes that you need are 1N400x The X can be any number and it will work fine. they are a buck each, I found a bag of 100 for $5 and you need 8 of them. It is a very common diode and I do use them for a lot of things.

 

The nuts did not have to come off, they are just to hold the transistors to the board on the other side.

 

There are 2 ways to get to the other side depending on your skill and preference.

 

1. Remove the solder from the connector pins so that you can lift the board off the pins. If you are good at soldering and desoldering this is not to bad, but remember that this is a 30 year old board and there is a good chance of damaging or lifting the pads in this process. Of course when you are done o nthe other side of the board you will also have to resolder all of the pins and repair any damaged pads.

 

2. make a shallow cut thru the case so that just the connector end will remain on the board. When you are done and and closing up the case you will have to seal the cut to keep moisture and dirt out. Be very careful to only cut through the case and not any of the components on the board.

 

As soon as you get it opened put the 4 nuts back on to hold down the transistors.

 

That brown gooey looking stuff all over is actually put their by the factory to help protect the board.

 

When I put mine back together I sealed up the cut line in the case and the 2 air holes to help keep it dry in there.

 

Thanks this what I needed to know. Where was do you order the diodes from.

[Flyinfool]

Digi-Key

Mouser

Newark

Radio Shack

 

Any electronics place will have them, it is one of the most common diodes available.

[Geobob]

You are making this too easy not to do. So if I understand one of the options is to cut the plastic case all the way around down near the plug end so top side of the board can be access. Then glue it back together when I'm done.

 

Option 1

 

or Option 2

[Flyinfool]

The line in the first pic is close to where you need to make the cut. you do not need to make the cuts in the second pic, just extend that first pic cut around and down the sides.

 

As for the location, where you took off the 4 nuts on the bottom of the board, make sure your cut on the case will allow you to get at the heads of those screws with a screw driver to hold them as you tighten the nuts.

 

You want to cut close to the connectors but not into them.

 

When you glue it back together you want to put all of the screws in so that it is all in the right place then apply the glue to the cut. you are revoming a saw thickness of material so that gap must be maintained for it all to fit back together. I used black Permatex RTV from any auto parts store to seal it all up.

[Geobob]

Opening or cutting went well. So now I am looking at this. Now I don't have the new diodes in hand so maybe that would make this obvious but I thought I would post the photo and ask anyways since the new diodes are probably a few days out.

 

So you say there are 8 similar or identical electrical components on this board that should be replace to ensure the TCI does not experience a sudden death. I realize it might be hard to explain but if anyone can, I will point out what I think you have explained, mark them and re-post. I suspect some others in the future will benefit from this. In the mean time I do some searching to see if this has already been explained on here somewhere.

 

And for those that are considering pulling the valve covers for gasket replacement and valve adjustment. If you take off most of the obvious things the front just lifted off and the back came out the left side without nearly as much effort as I anticipated. I did take the radiator off while I think you can just pull it forward. I also pulled all the hoses.

 

Edited October 22, 2017 by Geobob

[cowpuc]

I LOVE this thread and am one of those who you mention may someday benefit from all this Geo.. That said,, and in the spirit of campfire chit chat and the ghosts of classroom TV = before Fool or Bongo or someone with a brain for this stuff jumps on here and removes the opportunity for guess work,,,,,, I am gonna guess that the Diodes Fool is referring to are those things that are Blue and White in color.. Reason being,,, I think I can see just below that one Blue and White thingy some print on the circuit board that says D13.. I am gonna guess this means Diode #13 .. Noticing that other things start with and "R" that could mean resistor,, or "C" that could mean capacitor...

Thats my guess,,, Blue and White - sort of little round fishing bobber looking things on a sea of green..

Puc

[Geobob]

thank, I am gathering that after reading some of the other threads related to the TCI repair.

And excuse the photo of my leg. I did not see that one show up when I was attaching the boards. Boy that could have been much more embarrassing.

[Flyinfool]

That is one of the cleaner boards I have seen.

Yes Puc guessed correctly, it is the 8 blue and white diodes that get replaced. Yours are not corroded at all. Many of them have the leads looking like a boll of cauliflower.

 

But since you are there it would not hurt to replace them.

[Geobob]

So time for an update. Clearly I don't work to fast since I am not home all week. I got my valves all checked and as far as I can tell it looks like a need 3 (275s) and 1 (270). None of them were that far out. A couple of the intakes were .09 and a number of them had shims that were in between sizes. I honestly have no recollection of having done this 10 years ago when I did the gaskets but I have to think that I would have. Maybe they were all withing spec?

 

The real reason for this post is to confirm I put the diodes in correctly. I did not recall reading that there was a right way and a wrong way to put them in. After some checking with a multi meter and looking on line I confirmed what most of you guys probably already know. So the photo shows some of the new diodes in place. I have not soldered them in yet because I wanted to be sure. The old blue and white ones appear to have the anode (positive site) colored white and the symbol on the board seems to confirm that. Unfortunately the bag of diodes I purchased dose not indicate which end is which. I checked with the multi meter and I get a reading of some kind of resistance in one direction and nothing in the other. Matching this up with the blue and white ones I took off suggest the end of the new diode with the light grey or white band on it is the negative side. If anyone can confirm from the photos and my description that i have this right, feel free to let me know. I'd hate to have to remove them since getting the old ones off was enough work.

 

To anyone reading this who has not done this, yes it is relatively easy but don't be fooled into thinking it is not tedious. Getting the soldering iron on one side and something like needle nose pliers on the other side to pull the wire through the board is not as simple as it sounds. The glue covering everything on the one side does not make things any easier either. After you get the old one off you then have to clear the solder out of the hole. I purchased a solder vacuum thing assuming it would make things easy but it did not work like it did on the utube video. I almost resorted to drilling them out but I could not find or feel like looking for those really fine drill bits I know I have somewhere.

 

So here is what it looks like.

 

[snyper316]

If memory serves me right.. When I worked for transition technology inc the diodes are one way... Only reason I know this I did 152 boards and put them in backwards I had to rework them long story short here I had a long night... Was upset and decided to be funny.. Not much of a joke when there was 4 per board... And desodering was tedious!!! As you know.. Good thing you didn't try to drill them out.. 30 yr old boards pads can not be in that good of shape...

 

Sent from my LG-K371 using Tapatalk

[Flyinfool]

The silver band of the diode must be oriented to match the symbol printed on the board. The symbol on the board has a triangle and a bar, The silver end of the diode goes on the side of the symbol with the bar.

 

When you go to solder these back in, make sure to solder on both sides of the board if there is a circuit on both sides of the board.

 

If you ripped any of the pads off the board in the process of removing the old diodes, make sure to use a bit of fine copper wire to make the connection that was lost.

 

Sometimes with really old boards the solder vac will work better if you first add a bit of fresh solder to the joint. I know it sounds backwards to add more solder to a joint that you are trying to remove the solder, but it does help. Just like some times tightening a stuck bolt will help to get it to break loose.

[Geobob]

Thanks for the help. After reading your description of how to orient the diodes think I have it correct. Did you look at the close up photo of the one diode. Is so, are we both looking at the same idea?

 

The silver band of the diode must be oriented to match the symbol printed on the board. The symbol on the board has a triangle and a bar, The silver end of the diode goes on the side of the symbol with the bar.

 

When you go to solder these back in, make sure to solder on both sides of the board if there is a circuit on both sides of the board.

 

If you ripped any of the pads off the board in the process of removing the old diodes, make sure to use a bit of fine copper wire to make the connection that was lost.

 

Sometimes with really old boards the solder vac will work better if you first add a bit of fresh solder to the joint. I know it sounds backwards to add more solder to a joint that you are trying to remove the solder, but it does help. Just like some times tightening a stuck bolt will help to get it to break loose.

[Flyinfool]

Thanks for the help. After reading your description of how to orient the diodes think I have it correct. Did you look at the close up photo of the one diode. Is so, are we both looking at the same idea?

 

Yes your first photo showing D1 is the correct orientation.

 

It also looks like the top pad in that photo is one of those damaged pads I was referring to, that will need to soldered on both sides of the board and may even need some repair wire added.

[Geobob]

Now that might take some more explanation. I am looking closely at the board (as in the green and black sections) and just don't see what is catching your eye. I am glad you pointed this out because I was about to drop some solder on the back side of the board and glue it back together. That was my question, what is recommended for sealing it back up. I was thinking some Red RTV silicon that I used to glue the valve cover gasket on with. I was going to seal the seam and where I cut the case. I was also going to relocate to on top of the air box.

 

So let assume the pad is damaged. I solder the diodes on. How would you test to see if I have continuity. Also do I need to peal all the rubbery protectant off the top of the board before soldering the new diodes in place

 

.

 

Yes your first photo showing D1 is the correct orientation.

 

It also looks like the top pad in that photo is one of those damaged pads I was referring to, that will need to soldered on both sides of the board and may even need some repair wire added.

[Chaharly]

Now that might take some more explanation. I am looking closely at the board (as in the green and black sections) and just don't see what is catching your eye. I am glad you pointed this out because I was about to drop some solder on the back side of the board and glue it back together. That was my question, what is recommended for sealing it back up. I was thinking some Red RTV silicon that I used to glue the valve cover gasket on with. I was going to seal the seam and where I cut the case. I was also going to relocate to on top of the air box.

 

So let assume the pad is damaged. I solder the diodes on. How would you test to see if I have continuity. Also do I need to peal all the rubbery protectant off the top of the board before soldering the new diodes in place

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=110879http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=110880.

 

 

I could be totally wrong here, I am learning and have never even pulled one apart. I think he's talking about on the other side of the board. In the first photo you have when you were asking about the direction of the diode the board looks slightly damaged there.

[Flyinfool]

Sorry I disappeared for a bit, was out chasing deer for 2 weeks.....

 

On that board, the green areas are copper circuits, the "black" areas are the parts with no copper. Some of the pads have a brown ring around the wire, these are damaged pads. The brown ring is where the copper used to be but it got pulled off with the old diode lead. This means that there is nothing there to solder to. Some of the circuits connect on the top of the board and some connect on the bottom and a few connect on both sides of the board. So if there is a green area that runs up to a lead, you must make sure that the lead is soldered to that copper under the green. You may need to use a razor blade or Xacto to VERY GENTLY scrape some of the green paint off of the copper next to the lead so that you can solder to it. you need to examine each lead to which sides of the board it actually connects to circuits and then make sure it still does after soldering.

[Geobob]

Sorry I disappeared for a bit, was out chasing deer for 2 weeks.....

 

On that board, the green areas are copper circuits, the "black" areas are the parts with no copper. Some of the pads have a brown ring around the wire, these are damaged pads. The brown ring is where the copper used to be but it got pulled off with the old diode lead. This means that there is nothing there to solder to. Some of the circuits connect on the top of the board and some connect on the bottom and a few connect on both sides of the board. So if there is a green area that runs up to a lead, you must make sure that the lead is soldered to that copper under the green. You may need to use a razor blade or Xacto to VERY GENTLY scrape some of the green paint off of the copper next to the lead so that you can solder to it. you need to examine each lead to which sides of the board it actually connects to circuits and then make sure it still does after soldering.

 

Thanks for the input. This is a big help. I guess that also answers the question regarding having to remove the protective goo that appears to have been poured all over the top of the board. I sure am glad I have left this board sitting right here on my desk for the last month waiting to get around to solder up. Something tells me this is going to be a bit more delicate than sweating copper pipes together under the sink. I think I can imagine testing for continuity between the exposed lead on the diode and someplace on the green section it is "soldered to". I assume you can probably just use that very sharp pointed lead like on a test light to get through the coating down into the copper. Something tells me that trying to hold a test lead on that little exposed lead on the diode on one side of the board and stabbing the other lead into the copper on the other side, is going to be more difficult than sounds.

 

I definitely would not have known about the damaged opening. I just figured a glob of solder would make more than enough of a contact. I can see that testing is a really good idea.

 

Now on another subject. I finally finished the valve adjustment. If you look closely at the picture I posted of the page of notes you will see all the mistakes. I think it took a while before I realized there is a difference between the exhaust and the intake. I thought I had everything measured and all the correct shim sized that I needed. I did not. As I went back through and recheck the clearance on each of the valves I caught a few mistakes. I think I had to make three trips to the local shop to find shims that were not in the kit Skydoc sent me. Fortunately he was patient with me and let me hold on to the tools and kit a bit longer than normal. So now we just have to finagle the covers back on without tearing the gaskets off. I glued the gasket to the cover while I have read that others have put the gasket on the head. I took a lot off to get to them so I hope they will go back on without much blood loss. And yes I think I drew blood twice during the valve adjustment.

 

It has taken me so long that now its getting really cold in the garage. I am thinking of getting a hot plate to lay my tools on so they are nice and warm and I went out an bought a 100,000 btu torpedo heater. Now I just have to find someplace the sells Kerosene. When did the world stop using kerosene. I remember it being sold at a lot of gas stations. I guess that was before all the old tanks came out. I guess the stations could not justify putting a new one back in.