And then, to confuse the matter even more,, Puc jumps in and calls a,,,,

[cowpuc]

Metering Valve a Proportioning Valve = oopppsss...

In answer to a sigh of confusion (totally my fault) by one of our fellow club members about a recent video I made concerning bleeding the rear brake system from up on the neck of a 1st Gen Venture = this next video installment is a feeble attempt at clarity on my behalf.. Hope someone out there (reading this @Condor ?) gets some follow up use out of it,, or,, at a minimum - even it doesnt clarify what I hope it clarifies,, a sneak peek at whats under the right hand side of the rearward fairing half on a 1st Gen Venture!!

 

[Condor]

What a great video.... agin!! However Professor Puc... I have one question. Why isn't there a metering valve for the right brake?? Here's my spin on this confusing little gizmo. It's not a pressure thing-a-bob but a timing/pressure device. I think I read somewhere that the rear do-hicky controls the pressure to both the front and back in a 30%/70% ratio. 30 being applied to both brakes up to 30 and then when you stand on the pedal it allows the 70% to apply to the left front like in a panic stop. So what the metering device will do is slow the flow... in a timely manner... i.e. the applied pressure. IMVHO

 

I do want to apologize about being dense on the MV. I've never had a need to get into that area to bleed the rear brakes. I installed Speed Bleeders on all my 1Gens from the git-go and when bleeding I just make sure the reserve doesn't run dry and hand pump the pedal like the energizer bunny.... I bleed the left front first and then the rear. Works every time.

 

Thanks for the midnight video. Takes a special guy to wander around in a Venture graveyard at night..... Halloween's coming,,,

 

[cowpuc]

Heyyy ya lop eared gravy covered french fry munchin varmint = thanks for the compliment on the vid!!!

 

As a continuance into Puc 1st Gen Theorization,, I theorize that the right side brake that is soley activated by the lever up on the right bar does, in theory, have a Metering Valve = the finger tips on the riders right hand.. Thinking that because it's singularly controlled it is left up to the rider to apply the amount of pressure he wants applied to that side Jack, even to the point of being able to lock the front brake up in a panic stop if he is not careful. That potential (acutally locking up the front brake) would defintitly not be a good thing and even more dangerous if both front and back locked up at the same time..

I have a hunch that this is one of the main purposes of that metering valve = the rider can ram on the rearas hard as he wants and, even though he may lock the rear = locking the front will not happen because the metering valve is controlling the pressure = Puc Theory applied,,

 

Wanna hear some more of my theorizationing as long as we are sitting here roasting hot dogs over this campfire? Thought ya would :Im not listening toso,,,,,

I have this intrensic notion that :Im not listening toMom Yam went to all that advanced linking of the brakes business with the proportioning valves and metering valves nonsense (I am way old school = I still think that it should be left up to the actual rider of the scoot to develop his riding skills to the point that he should know how much pressure to put on his brakes and which brakes to apply for any given circumstance he encounters = I may be unrealisically more personally responsibility orienated = way old school) before realising that the design she had chosen for just the base braking system on these 1st Gens was far from being adequate.. Personally, I have forever wished she would have totally scrapped the whole linking idea, fired the engineer who came up with the goofy thing and hired a couple more GP Moto guys (R1 sport bike people) with REAL braking experience to have put some REAL stopping power at my finger tips and at the end of my toes and leave the decision of how, when, why up to yours truly:322:.. But what do I know

[Flyinfool]

@cowPuc

That is why myself and many others have delinked the brakes. So that they work just like what you want. Now the only limit to my braking ability is the friction between each tire and the pavement.

[cowpuc]

@cowPuc

That is why myself and many others have delinked the brakes. So that they work just like what you want. Now the only limit to my braking ability is the friction between each tire and the pavement.

 

I have had em both ways thru the years Fool and have found the difference to be negligitable - keep in mind, I form this opinion from an exclusive back ground in single pistoned, undersized rotored 1st Gen MK1's though = you know the ones,, the ones that squeezing that front brake lever or pushing on that rear brake lever acutally acts like an excellerant

 

IMHO,, a LOT more needs to be done with those brakes than a delink = fork swap, R1 Calipers yada dee yada dee.. Sort of why I mentioned wishing Mom Yam would have kicked that linked brake engineer to the curb and hired those R1 brake guys in the first place

 

For the sake of anyone reading this,,, delinking is not as easy as just unhooking a hose, plugging one and hooking up to another.. It involves locating a larger capacity master/resivor up top and some tinkering.. It does help though, IMHO, even on the MK1's.. This new one I am riding has braided stainless cables on it and still linked up. Having now owned both upgrades = I think just the braided lines acutally helps more in making consistant smooth stopping power.. If I ever refind any form of my yesteryears motovation I may do another delink on this one just to see what having both presents..

[Condor]

I cut my teeth on de-linked brakes as well, in the late 50's with an Ariel Square 4. I really can't remember if the thing had braking on the front?? But... it was drum on the rear. Ok just did a memory refresher and it had drum on the front too. The front handled the bulk of the braking chores, with the back usually being applied right at the finish of a stop. I never stood on the pedal. Heck when I needed to stop quickly the lever was the first thing I put a death grip on. When I figured I was gonna live my educated left foot applied the rear....gently. Yes I said left, don't think I made a mistake...again...:-0 On the Ariel square 4 the brake pedal was on the left side, and the trany pedal was on the right... :-) See those Brits were goofy footed even way back then.

 

Fast forward to 1983 and I still ride the same way. Even with the first Gen linked brakes. Although I have swapped foot positions.. I did improve the anemic front braking with a fork swap, Progressives and R1's on the '83, but even then and to this day I still ride the same way. I can carve twistys with the best of them, and rarely use the brakes. And linked or de-linked don't make much of a difference, if any??... IMHO

Edited October 21, 2017 by Condor

[Flyinfool]

The main reason that I delinked was the parking lot at work and the alley behind my house. Both are paved and have a lot of loose gravel. I have had the front wheel lock up while applying only the rear brake way to many times. I have not completely dropped the bike yet but I have strained my leg stopping it from falling. I have had zero issues with gravel on pavement since delinking 5 years ago. As far as performance on normal roads, I did not notice any difference either.

 

Should I ever get another linked bike that does not have ABS, delinking will the first thing I do.

[Yammer Dan]

Not to get in this but I think when I dropped "Silver" that valve that Puc mentioned malfunctioned. I was running out of room. Couldn't get the rear to unlock. No options left!! Hit Stupid A** in truck or....????? This has been in my dreams at least 3 or 4 times a week since it happened. Partly the reason I don't spend more time in the garage. Malfunction because of age?? Faulty equipment??? Just cause?? Changing of road surfaces when I came off that bridge?? FUC**NG retarded idiot locking them up in front of bikes to see what would happen???? OK I'm Done!!!!

[cowpuc]

Not to get in this but I think when I dropped "Silver" that valve that Puc mentioned malfunctioned. I was running out of room. Couldn't get the rear to unlock. No options left!! Hit Stupid A** in truck or....????? This has been in my dreams at least 3 or 4 times a week since it happened. Partly the reason I don't spend more time in the garage. Malfunction because of age?? Faulty equipment??? Just cause?? Changing of road surfaces when I came off that bridge?? FUC**NG retarded idiot locking them up in front of bikes to see what would happen???? OK I'm Done!!!!

 

INDEED!! You sure shook us MD attenders up with that one brother!!! BUNCH of folks thinking of and praying for ya (see this link = http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?104022-To-Yammer-Dan-From-VR-family-who-attended-Freebird-s-MD-we-love-brother!!&highlight=yammer

We were all very thankful and glad to hear you were gonna make it - wowzy,, THAT was a tough one!!

[Condor]

The main reason that I delinked was the parking lot at work and the alley behind my house. Both are paved and have a lot of loose gravel. I have had the front wheel lock up while applying only the rear brake way to many times. I have not completely dropped the bike yet but I have strained my leg stopping it from falling. I have had zero issues with gravel on pavement since delinking 5 years ago. As far as performance on normal roads, I did not notice any difference either.

 

Should I ever get another linked bike that does not have ABS, delinking will the first thing I do.

 

i consider gravel the same as I do cracks in the sidewalk. I don't step on cracks and I don't ride on gravel. I hate gravel. Even when I use the engine gyro and crawl it scares the 'P' water out of me. Did I mention I hate gravel....

[djh3]

I like my ABS on the Vic. But I also rode the old school drum brake stuff. Trying to think of the valves I have run across in other brake systems. Short of them is normal pressure fluid goes thru. High press like panic stop it sets a check valve and essentially stops flow (to front brake in this discussion)

[bongobobny]

OK, I'm going to lay a little bit of technical knowledge on you.

 

First, the proportioning valve is pretty much a spring loaded valve. Here's what happens and why. When you press the rear brake, a pressure is built up. This pressure and fluid volume are immediately applied to the rear caliper. Actually, the pressure is a result of first the fluid reaching the rear caliper, and when it moves and bottoms out the pressure is built up. As this pressure increases, as soon as it reaches the spring rate pressure it opens the pathway to the front brake and allows fluid to be sent to the front caliper. The reason for this is so that the front does not dive when you hit the rear! The rear brake is applied prior to the front brake being activated! It's a safety feature.

 

Now the metering valve is just a fixed orifice! Its function in life is to regulate or limit the volume of fluid per second so that the front brake does not feel a bunch of pressure and volume instantaneously. Yet another safety feature to ensure smooth even braking on the dual braking system.

 

To answer Condor's question, no, the front brake is not really metered as it is independent of the rear and your finger squeeze, which is a lot more sensitive than a foot stomp, is used to regulate the force of braking...

[Flyinfool]

 

i consider gravel the same as I do cracks in the sidewalk. I don't step on cracks and I don't ride on gravel. I hate gravel. Even when I use the engine gyro and crawl it scares the 'P' water out of me. Did I mention I hate gravel....

 

I hate gravel also, But IF I were to refuse to drive over it, I would never be able to leave my back yard. My choices are ride on pavement with gravel or don't ride at all ever again. I do not like either choice but one is less bad than the other.

[Yammer Dan]

INDEED!! You sure shook us MD attenders up with that one brother!!! BUNCH of folks thinking of and praying for ya (see this link = http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?104022-To-Yammer-Dan-From-VR-family-who-attended-Freebird-s-MD-we-love-brother!!&highlight=yammer

We were all very thankful and glad to hear you were gonna make it - wowzy,, THAT was a tough one!!

 

The damage that one done is still with me. Most of it inside my head. But the moments of "HELL No I AIN"T QUITTING" keep flashing more and more often. Too many CFW days in the wind. Am I done?? I'm still not sure. Back in the weight room again to try and get these blasted ribs to quit hurting. BIKE??? A long winter ahead.......

[Yammer Dan]

I think the reason I did jump in this is that I'm still wondering if I just screwed up?? But I've sure replayed that one a few thousand time and don't think I could have done it any better!!! HEY I Missed the Truck!! I wish the deputy that watched this one had gone after him!! I just want about 60 seconds with him!!

[WildBill1]

Dan, you missed the truck that what counts.