1st Gen vs 2nd gen carbs

[Venturous Randy]

Friend of mine, Steve Neal who used to be on here years ago, has a 2nd gen Venture that he bought from Rooster on here. He went thru over a year not starting his bike and after he retired recently, he decided to try to get his bike going. It will start and idle roughly with full choke, but as soon as he starts to move the choke off or give it any throttle, it dies. If he lets it idle for a long time, he can occasionally get it to rev some, but roughly and only at full choke.

My question pertains to the similarity of 1st Gen and 2 Gen. I ask this because I have been thru 1st gen carbs several times, but never 2nd gen. I want to help him get these carbs cleaned out, but no sure if I can do the 2nd gens. For the carb gurus on here, what do you think?

He did do a dose of Barrymans with some fresh fuel, but so far it is not getting better.

Randy

[MiCarl]

They're pretty similar. If you can do one you can do the other.

[Yammer Dan]

Did you give the BerryMans time to work?? I've had great luck with it.

[cowpuc]

Agreed,, IMHO Randy,, you should have no problembo on the carb rebuild, yep,, your that talented!!

You and I both know from experience that when carbs get to the point that you are talking about here they really should be opened up and done properly.. A really really good top to bottom clean, some new jets and a complete rebuild of all rubber parts, taking the time to make sure ALL the passages into the throat of carb are open, triple checking diaphram conditions and replacing if needed, new needle and seats,, all that done, synced up and that puppy will run like a new one.. Then if its cared for the carb overhaul should last for many many years..

Now,, a little secret that I have done successfully many many times after purchasing a scoot that hasnt ran in many years and trying to figure out exactly what I have.. The following advice is NOT for everyone because if not done in a timely fashion = rubber internal carb parts are toast BUT - if you gotta take the carb down any way,, it's worth a shot IMHO and at least for me..

Years ago I did a very scientific test on carb cleaning products to decide which product I was going to use for my plan by seperating the carbs off a junk 750 Honda that had sat for many years with fuel in the tank and petcock open (NASTY) = opening them up and dunking the parts in seperate containers filled with pure, new, 100% undiluted carb cleaning products.. I narrowed my test products down to 4 of the best known products including one that I have used for years as a tank dunk.. Results in order of performance:

1st Place = Berryman's Chem Dip (comes in a one gallon dip tank = have used it for years) = parts came clean in one hour.

2nd Place = That Yellow and White can of carb cleaner that Auto Zone used to sell - they dont sell it any more but it was the stuff that if you got it under your wedding band your finger was INSTANLY on fire!! 8 hour soak and parts came clean.

3rd Place = Blue and White can of GM Injector Cleaner (for the life of me I can think of the actual name of the stuff - been a long time).. 1 day/24 hour soak parts came clean enough that with a small amount of rubbing with a tooth brush the stuff sparkled.

4th Place = Seafoam = left it set for a week and even then the tough stuff was hanging tough.. Still no clue why Seafoam seems to work like it does.. Makes the engine run better but testing showed it was NOT because it was actually cleaning anything..

 

I did all that above testing because, at the time, I was being over run with bikes of all types that had set for years and I needed to formulate a way to get em going without investing a lot of time and parts money into getting them started just to find out I was dealing with a bad crank or what ever = these were MY bikes NOT a customers bike that I was paid to do a carb rebuild on!!.. A quick,, make em run just to see what I had.. That said,, the following is what I came up with, has worked for me many times, even proved itself to work sometimes to the point that I ended up not needing to pull the carb down BUT - that was not 100%! Its a gamble..

So,, if its worth a shot and your gonna pull the carbs anyway AND your friends plan is to do a complete carb rebuild, here is what I would do first:

Centerstand or stand the bike upright so the bowls are level. Shut off the gas, drain the carbs, pull the diaphrams/slides. Pick up a large animal injection syringe from an ag store (should be in your tool box already = very handy ), slide the end of the syringe over the drain line, fill the syringe with Chem Dip and inject Chem Dip into the bowls one at a time until the Chem Dip flows out of the mains a little, close the drain and go to next carb. Allow Chem Dip to set in Carb bowl for 1 hour!! Open Drains one at a time with syringe attached and suck Chem Dip out of bowls emptying syringe back into gallon container of Chem Dip for future use. Fill syringe with Spray carb cleaner of brake cleaner of your choice and inject into bowls until it drips out of mains. Let sit while you fill all the bowls. Go back to first carb filled with carb cleaner - attach syringe, open drain screw, agitate cleaner by pulling syringe in and out - few pulls and you will notice carb cleaner has turned brown.. After pulling cleaner all the way to empty bowl go to next carb and continue till all carbs are empty.. Now start over, do this until you have clean carb cleaner from each bowl after agitation. Now switch over to raw gas, fill bowls again till raw gas is seeping from mains. Agitate and empty 2x. Replace diaphrams/slides making sure that slides are all moving easily in carb casings.. Any sign of sticky = clean until it slides effortlessly.. Button her up, turn on the gas and see what cha got..

Any of that make sense at all brother?? Need a video for clarification = can do..

Another thing I would check very carefully is tank interior.. Look very carefully for rust in tank = any rust gone to stalagtites = tank seal. Most rust dust can easily be cleaned to perfection by emptying tank = fill it with white vinegar (stuff is amazing = personally I have used white vinegar fairly successfully for carb cleaning with the drain/agitate method when the jets are plugged off severly like the one your dealing with are = good stuff). If the tank isnt stalagtited = use vinegar, gotta let it set for a few days is all BUT = it will clean up and not remove the galvanization (in tank sealing removing that galvanization is commonly known as "etching".. If ya gotta seal the tank = Red Kote is THE max!!!

Sorry for the long post,, hope it helps somehow!! Best of the best gettin your buddies scoot happening for em Rand = YOU DA MAN!!

[Yammer Dan]

I use two of the cleaners you listed for my mix Puc. Plus another that you didn't list that has been around for a while. Marvel Mystery Oil. I've quit pushing Sea-Foam so much because they seem to just want to get rich off of us. The BerryMan's is Great stuff. Sea-Foam as a Maint. tool seems to work. I've been a little shy about using the BerryMan's a lot because it does clean!!! Afraid it was too strong. But a can of BerryMan's in a gallon of gas and a three day soak kept me from pulling a set of carbs and they ran great after a few miles with continued treatment. I used so much I was a little worried about it but when they finally came around that thing would FLY!!!:backinmyday:

[cowpuc]

I use two of the cleaners you listed for my mix Puc. Plus another that you didn't list that has been around for a while. Marvel Mystery Oil. I've quit pushing Sea-Foam so much because they seem to just want to get rich off of us. The BerryMan's is Great stuff. Sea-Foam as a Maint. tool seems to work. I've been a little shy about using the BerryMan's a lot because it does clean!!! Afraid it was too strong. But a can of BerryMan's in a gallon of gas and a three day soak kept me from pulling a set of carbs and they ran great after a few miles with continued treatment. I used so much I was a little worried about it but when they finally came around that thing would FLY!!!:backinmyday:

Hearing that Bro!!

 

Probably if you and I had met earlier in life I would have incorporated Marvel into my technique by using a gas/marvel mix at the end of the process instead of raw fuel cause I have read on here the number of times you have found success with it.. Time just got in the way DanL, I done ran out of steam = if ya get my drift.. Wish we coulda shoulda woulda way back in the Chopper days but I wouldnt trade the hot dog cookin, open camp fire foot warming conversations to ol buddies share here for nuttin = GOOD points ya make my friend!!

[cowpuc]

I use two of the cleaners you listed for my mix Puc. Plus another that you didn't list that has been around for a while. Marvel Mystery Oil. I've quit pushing Sea-Foam so much because they seem to just want to get rich off of us. The BerryMan's is Great stuff. Sea-Foam as a Maint. tool seems to work. I've been a little shy about using the BerryMan's a lot because it does clean!!! Afraid it was too strong. But a can of BerryMan's in a gallon of gas and a three day soak kept me from pulling a set of carbs and they ran great after a few miles with continued treatment. I used so much I was a little worried about it but when they finally came around that thing would FLY!!!:backinmyday:

 

Oh,,and by the way = you are 100% on the to harsh = ya gotta REALLY watch the dip tank Berrymans closely.. As another experiment I left an O-ring in the tank for a couple days once just to see what would happen = prettiest black Dunkin Donut appeared when I popped the lid on that one = dont over cook the stuff THAT is for sure but I gotta tell ya, I have fiddled with and fired up more ol scoots for a test run by doing what I suggested and priming up the oil pumps first than I care to remember - enough so that I could find out what I had BEFORE sinking a ton a money in em chasing my tail...