Weird transmission issue...

[s.tyler58]

Yesterday I put about 130 miles on and when I returned home, about a mile from home, she would not downshift at a light. Clutch engaging everything as far as I could tell was the same except it wasn't changing gears. I got a third gear start which wasn't very fun and turn the next corner to get off the main street and then all of a sudden I was in first gear. Sat there with the clutch in everything shifted fine, went on home and parked it in the garage. What the heck? Transmission was rebuilt less than 1500 miles ago.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[yamagrl]

Motorcycle transmissions have been known to be a little finicky at times.

 

If it shifts while moving but won't while stopped just slightly let the clutch out and try it with a slight clutch drag or slightly engage and disengage the clutch. This will will allow the transmission to try to rotate and the transmission forks to get a little different bite.

 

This is kinda like rocking the bike back and forth to go through the gears when the engine is not running.

 

Heather

[Kretz]

:sign yeah that: Just what Yamagrl said, I think many bikes will do that, I've had it happen (on a much younger bike) Not often, but occasionally. Try it & see if it works for you.

Come to think of it (which I just did) it happens in my stick shift truck too.

Occasionally it just won't go into gear. Let the clutch peddle up, try again, it shifts ok. I guess it's just a case of where the gear cogs stop.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Kretz

[Yammer Dan]

I've had that happen. No idea why.

[s.tyler58]

Thanks.both of you.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[BlueSky]

Motorcycle transmissions have been known to be a little finicky at times.

 

If it shifts while moving but won't while stopped just slightly let the clutch out and try it with a slight clutch drag or slightly engage and disengage the clutch. This will will allow the transmission to try to rotate and the transmission forks to get a little different bite.

 

This is kinda like rocking the bike back and forth to go through the gears when the engine is not running.

 

Heather

 

yamagrl! Long time no postee! Thought we had lost you! What's happening?

[cowpuc]

:sign yeah that: Just what Yamagrl said, I think many bikes will do that, I've had it happen (on a much younger bike) Not often, but occasionally. Try it & see if it works for you.

Come to think of it (which I just did) it happens in my stick shift truck too.

Occasionally it just won't go into gear. Let the clutch peddle up, try again, it shifts ok. I guess it's just a case of where the gear cogs stop.

 

+2!! :sign Rock On:

 

If ya ever get a chance to fool around with a gear stack set into a case thats opened up you probably would really enjoy it.. There is a lot going on in there when that tranny is in operation that cause things to line up better/easier when in motion..

Even simple little things like gear design can, and often does make a huge difference in how easily things line up and more so when talking about how they do if the tranny is not in rotation when the shift forks start moving things. A fairly easily viewable difference in a couple of different designs can be seen in the two vids below..

If you look at the two videos below, go to 2:15 in the 1st one (Yamaha) and pay careful attention to the way the gears are cut in the tranny. You may notice that they are straight cut. Now go to the second video (Polaris) and fast forward to 2:48 and notice how those gears are cut on an angle? That is Helical cut and that cut allows the gears shift easier and also makes the gears quieter..

Unlike the guru's here (like YamaGrl) I have never had the pleasure of splitting the cases on one of our Ventures (I just run till they are cooked and grab another one) but I am pretty sure our Yam's are all straight cut.. I say that because I know that if you get into the habit of coming to a stop at an intersection and havent developed the art of downshifting before you come to a stop your tranny isnt gonna like ya much.. Also,, if you make it a habit of trying to force it to move from highway touring gear selections down to first while sitting at a stop, the two of you are destined to get to know each other in a very intimate way as swapping out bent shift forks will become common place.. Best habit is to down shift before coming to a stop.

If I totally misunderstood what the issue is that you inquired about and this whole thread is more about stiff or catching shifting,,, I might advise changing oil (if the clutch is operating as it should).. On my scoots, all of my 1st Gens, having a "notchy" feeling trannie was a tell tale sign that it was oil change time.. Another thing that would cause that stickyness for my bikes was using to light of oil in hot hot tempts.. 15/40 Rotella = always fine for early spring/fall running but get into the heat of things , especially desert heats and my bikes would all let me know that its 20/50 time by a good case of the notchies..

Ok,,now something else that I read herein that kind of has me pausing for cause.. Its the part when you mentioned going right to 1st Gear. In my early years of MXin I had something like that happen numerous times and it was generally from coming down off a jump fairly hard and messing up (splitting the arm that the indent cam wheel attaches to or popping an indent spring) the shift mechanism that rotates the end of the shift drum from a hard hit on the shift lever.. Most metrics, including our scoots, use a form of this method of making the shift forks slide to this day.. If your riding along and your bike seems to develop a mind of its own as which gear at any given time it is going to be in it is more likely than not something to do with the far right end of the shift drum (can also be missing pins on the selector wheel or even just a loose bolt that holds the whole thing together).. I write all this to let you know that if this is the case, dont hit the catastrophic button yet.. Those components are all located under the actual clutch hub and fairly easily repaired.. Dont have to pull the motor and split cases like an actual tranny repair..

WOWZY,, long winded again,, sorry about that... Here are those two vids = 1st is the Yam,,, 2nd is the Polaris..

 

 

[Kretz]

Puc you are a fountain of knowledge! :happy65:Thanks for the videos & comments.

Right on brother! Something I was taught on my riding course some years ago, always tap down to 1st if coming to a stop. Very occasionally if I don't that's usually when the problem occurs, operator incompetence; not really the fault of the machine! LOL

ps those cutaway engines truly are works of art & beautiful to see!

[s.tyler58]

Wow! You all have so much info! You know what! I'd probably Pony up $2.50 a month for all this information! All very good, you know what's funny, Kretz probably nailed it because I really haven't ridden much in five years and never on a bike like this. I do have spongy weak brakes that I intend to replace the lines and rebuild the system this winter, which causes me to do a lot of engine braking, which nine times out of 10 times I'm in first gear by the time I'm stopped five feet off someone's bumper. This particular light was at the bottom of a hill and I distinctly remember trying to get into first at the light (after stopping) because I was the first one there I didn't have to stop as hard that particular time. And then there's puc with his books, videos and 1 hrs classes on every subject, (Man, don't you just love that man?) when I needed a simple reminder that an oil change cleans up a lot of s*** , Also I changed the oil right away when I got the bike but now at about 1,800 miles I better change it again.

 

Now that brings me to a conversation about forward controls. I love love love the ability to move my feet around on foot boards! I hate hate hate the reverse shift pattern and the fact that my shifter has rear lever so you could upshift with your heel with the backward pattern, however my shifter the rear of the lever is below the footboard so of no use. I used my toe to upshift and end up kicking my heel into the front of the lever to downshift. If I weren't still a youngish working man, I'd show you with video, however I got to go to work so I'll do that later. The fact that my shift lever is as tight as I could possibly get it using an extension on an allen wrench for torque, and yet that SOB still will spin upward... ah crap, you'll have to wait for the video.

 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

Edited October 10, 2017 by s.tyler58

[cowpuc]

Wow! You all have so much info! You know what! I'd probably Pony up $2.50 a month for all this information! All very good, you know what's funny, Kretz probably nailed it because I really haven't ridden much in five years and never on a bike like this. I do have spongy weak brakes that I intend to replace the lines and rebuild the system this winter, which causes me to do a lot of engine braking, which nine times out of 10 times I'm in first gear by the time I'm stopped five feet off someone's bumper. This particular light was at the bottom of a hill and I distinctly remember trying to get into first at the light (after stopping) because I was the first one there I didn't have to stop as hard that particular time. And then there's puc with his books, videos and 1 hrs classes on every subject, (Man, don't you just love that man?) when I needed a simple reminder that an oil change cleans up a lot of s*** , Also I changed the oil right away when I got the bike but now at about 1,800 miles I better change it again.

 

Now that brings me to a conversation about forward controls. I love love love the ability to move my feet around on foot boards! I hate hate hate the reverse shift pattern and the fact that my shifter has rear lever so you could upshift with your heel with the backward pattern, however my shifter the rear of the lever is below the footboard so of no use. I used my toe to upshift and end up kicking my heel into the front of the lever to downshift. If I weren't still a youngish working man, I'd show you with video, however I got to go to work so I'll do that later. The fact that my shift lever is as tight as I could possibly get it using an extension on an allen wrench for torque, and yet that SOB still will spin upward... ah crap, you'll have to wait for the video.

 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

 

,,, I wonder what would happen if someone put that little arm that connects to the shift shaft on upside down .. Seems like that would make the scoot shift backwards = like 1 up and 4 down... I think if I am understanding this correctly that is the first thing I would check Ty:happy34:

Want a video to explain what I am talking about:witch_brew:

[cowpuc]

Puc you are a fountain of knowledge! :happy65:Thanks for the videos & comments.

Right on brother! Something I was taught on my riding course some years ago, always tap down to 1st if coming to a stop. Very occasionally if I don't that's usually when the problem occurs, operator incompetence; not really the fault of the machine! LOL

ps those cutaway engines truly are works of art & beautiful to see!

 

Though I am still not sure that's knowledge flowing out of that fountain my friend but I will DEFINITELY take the compliments!!!

And you are always welcome for the vids and comments brother!! Lots and lots of fun making them on my end which leads me to offering you a HUGE THANK YOU to for not being to critical of my off camber backyard mechanicism that shows up on a consistent basis in my advice..

 

Surprisingly enough I get a fair amount of comments over on you tube in response to the post I make there to repost over here and not all of those comments are so forgiving... Thanks Kretzer for overlooking the bad and enjoying the good brother!!

[Kretz]

Though I am still not sure that's knowledge flowing out of that fountain my friend but I will DEFINITELY take the compliments!!!

And you are always welcome for the vids and comments brother!! Lots and lots of fun making them on my end which leads me to offering you a HUGE THANK YOU to for not being to critical of my off camber backyard mechanicism that shows up on a consistent basis in my advice..

 

Surprisingly enough I get a fair amount of comments over on you tube in response to the post I make there to repost over here and not all of those comments are so forgiving... Thanks Kretzer for overlooking the bad and enjoying the good brother!!

 

Well there will always be Critics, "Nay sayers" & those who can "do better" (or think they can!)

but You know what they say... "the man who never made a mistake, never made anything!" you keep up those good works brother!

[s.tyler58]

I'm still working my way home from a day on the road another 40 minutes I should be home. So this is dictated to my phone and some punctuation funny words and stuff. It's as if this rocker arm was intended to be used with a foot Peg because you can't really get your toe under it to shift up in a reverse pattern yet we almost have to catch you with your heel to lift it up and the rocker in the back is below the level of the footboard so it's absolutely useless so everytime I shift I'm having to use my entire leg which is probably good for me but really.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[snyper316]

Wait I thought you said your bike shifts backwards.... Because of the floor board.. Never did CTFW down my way owell maybe next year...

[s.tyler58]

Hey snyper I haven't reached a point where I can take off on her for a trip like. I still want to make sure about some things before I park it and start tearing it down. Mechanic wants to do the brakes I should let him quote it but I keep thinking that'd be a good winter job for me to tackle.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[snyper316]

Hey snyper I haven't reached a point where I can take off on her for a trip like. I still want to make sure about some things before I park it and start tearing it down. Mechanic wants to do the brakes I should let him quote it but I keep thinking that'd be a good winter job for me to tackle.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

I had mine for a little over two years before i went on long trips with her... But @cowpuc has talked these bikes up so much i figured anytime as good as any... But I had to tweek her out a bit to get her where she needs to be.... I am thinking its time to tear Tinker down and replace the Coil Packs and finish my rewiring I only left the one wire out when I did that Only reason I took it back off was cause I had no tach.... plus I need to pull down exaust and seems the deer and cool weather moving in have actually finally put the brakes on... I am thinking maybe changing out back Brake with later gen brakes, just not sure if that possible. Hopefully they the same except for the doul pistons..

[s.tyler58]

I'm thinking about putting my shop in my office which is heating heated and air-conditioned in the service area and I've got the room. But that also means creating space to work moving my tools and being 7 minutes from home. My garage is not connected so very cold. The power line out to the garage as broken in the ground and I just run a drop cord for about 5 years 4 lights and power tools. Kerosene is very expensive Heat and electric just doesn't make sense on an extension cord 75 foot. So that means once I procrastinate deciding where to do the work, I'll procrastinate starting to create space, and then once I do that I'll just Dive Right In and it'll be March before you know it. I got about 1,400 miles on it over the last two weeks. The high where I was driving today was 43 degrees with rain through the first half of the day. I figure if I get one more good ride day and I'll be ready to park it. The last struggle I'm having is that I cannot get that sucker on the center stand by myself for all the money in the world. So I guess it's back to the universal gym in what used to be my front bedroom for the winter.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[gaj1917]

The last struggle I'm having is that I cannot get that sucker on the center stand by myself for all the money in the world. So I guess it's back to the universal gym in what used to be my front bedroom for the winter.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Yes, a challenge to get these bikes up on the center stand. Assuming your center stand is functioning correctly, here's what works for me. Your right leg muscles should do all the lifting, not your arm muscles. With left hand on the left handlebar, right hand grabbibg the rear crash bar, and with right arm completely straight and stiff, push center stand down hard using right leg thigh muscles while moving bike slightly rearward. It should pop right up on the stand. I'm 6'3" with long legs, so I may have some mechanical advantage that shorter folks may lack?

[s.tyler58]

Yes the older and skinnier I get the more I rely on Leverage instead of muscle. I've tried that and maybe the extra 3 in you've got on me in height is enough to make the difference. I'm 6-foot 160 pounds. Shoot bike doesn't even know I'm on it! Even more advantage on those Hardley Riders

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Flyinfool]

When I bought my venture the sales man was a skinny 5 foot tall kid (late 20s early 30s). I doubt if he weighed 120 lbs.

I asked about getting a bike this big on the center stand so he popped it up there like nuttin.

Once I got it home and tried it a few times, I was like there is no way I am gonna get this thing on the center stand. I am 6'1" and 250 with a lot of it muscle. But that scrawny sales man had no problem. It took a bit of time for me to learn that it is all in the technique. Just like picking a bike up off the ground is all in the proper technique. Now I to can pop it up their with no issue at all.

 

As mentioned, left handle bar grip in left hand, Right hand grip the passenger grab rail, I can not bend over far enough to grab the crash bar:whistling:). right foot goes on the center stand lever, have the right foot positioned so that the point of contact with the lever is directly below the ankle. If you try to use farther forward of your foot on the lever. when you put power from your leg, that power will be taken out because your calf muscle is not strong enough to hold it. Even if you do not think your foot is bending, it is.

So for the lift, have your right arm near straight, put some light pressure on the lever and rock the bike back and forth till you can feel that both pads of the stand are touching the ground. then push down with your right leg while pulling the bike to the rear and it will just jump right up there.

 

Maybe we can get the famous @cowpuc to make a vid...................

[s.tyler58]

Now I can't wait to get home to practice!

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[s.tyler58]

Puc has much upper body strength for an old guy!

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[videoarizona]

Couple thoughts that may help in this discussion....

 

Steven, do the rear brake first. If you can upgrade it to different caliper...do so. The fronts we know can be upgraded if you do the forks as well to get them into MK2's. A good rear brake will help you a lot getting used to a heavier bike. We know the fronts do most of the work so that would be second.

 

Trannie and shifting. I'm glad to hear you are in 1st gear by the time you stop. That is much easier on the clutch and trannie to shift while moving, but it's also a huge safety thing. Come to a stop and see a car slamming on it's brakes and about to hit you...having the scoot in gear can save your life. Seriously. Being hit from behind is on or near the top of the list of why we get hurt/accidents.

 

Last...getting her up on the center stand. You are correct about age and strength. We just don't have what we used to have. I'm nearing 70. I can vouch for that.

 

That said, there are some things you can do. First, make sure your bike is at the proper ride height. Ie, shocks are good. If not, there is your problem. If you've lowered her, then there is the problem. Nothing you can do about that unless you have a Royale version. Then get off scoot, put her on side stand, turn key to "aux" and set the CLASS compressor to "auto" and hit "front" and then "High". Repeat for rear. This should raise the scoot enough to make it easier to put on center stand. If you have a standard, can you pump air into the rear shock and do the same thing? Just don't forget to set the shocks back to "normal" pressure so as not to stress out the seals...

Last, if you can't or won't raise the air pressure, then riding the rear tire up on a 2X6 that you "ramped" the rear edge... should also give you almost 1.5 inches additional height...making it easier to get her up!

 

Hope this helps!

 

P.S. Love those Pucster Videos!

Edited October 11, 2017 by videoarizona
sp

[s.tyler58]

I like picking on him. I haven't met him but he knows I love him.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[bongobobny]

Hey, pickin' on the Pucster is a normal pastime around here...