New Member Needs Help! Fuel just POURING - LOTS of Fuel!

[cptriker1]

To All:

 

First, yes I'm a newbie here, but I'm going to first give a shout out to Mr. Dano for his help and a few texts to me. And YES I just paid! Best $12 anywhere!

 

So I landed this 89 VR for $500 (I'm unemployed, no bike, take what you can get and she's a beautiful bike!) Owner told me about some of the issues. So I found out starter clutch was shot after finding out the primary fuse was melted due to him trying to jump the bike to get it started. Starter clutch was cracked (oh dang what fun that's been getting that done but its REPLACED). But for a note for anyone doing the dreaded flywheel (not my first yamaha) I got the upgraded bolts like everyone said, put my electric impact on it, waited a few minutes, impact it again and OFF it popped! So finally that part is FIXED.

 

So here's the issue I'm dealing with. The bike will not crank (tries to so I'm going to assume electrics are just fine from all I'm seeing). But, when you try to crank fuel just POURS out of a hose and lands on top of that single spring on the rear. I found that it's coming out what appears to be the end of a hose (there are three of them running together from looking from the fuel pump side of the bike over the plastic shield over the motor that I can see). You try to crank the bike and fuel pump kicks and then oh heck does the fuel just come OUT of that hose.

 

Here are things that I've observed and points to help see if we can narrow this down

 

1. Fuel pump does work. I'm not 100% if it's working right but it will pump to pressure and stop. However if the line is off (I was going to pump the fuel out to change the filter) and it will only pump and then stop and won't restart unless the bike is turned off and back on (recycle).

2. Fuel appears to be clear AFTER I run some thru it. It appeared dirty at first, but the lines are also very dirty as well.

3. If the pump sits there to pressure, there's no leak. It only happened when you try to crank it and then damn it's pouring out that line.

4. This is very difficult to see.

5. Tank appears fine.

6. Length of time it sat-up before I got it could be about 4 months. Owner claims he never had this 'fuel pouring issue' when the starter clutch went out.

 

Questions:

 

A. Is this some type of fuel return line from the carbs? If so, that's nuts to me...never seen that.

B. Anyone seen of this before?

C. Do I have to pull the tank?

D. Is this something with carbs?

E. Is this line supposed to be attached to something (cut or otherwise?)

F. Can I get to it by pulling the seat without having to pull the tank (oh please...starter clutch was ENOUGH on me...)?

G. Does anyone have winning POWERBALL numbers so I can pay the bills and get a BRAND NEW bike????

 

HEY!!! The wife keeps yelling at me to pick better numbers!!! hahahahahahaha

 

Seriously though, I'm really happy to get this bike as it's just what I'm looking for as a BIG bike (I've had a GL1200 and Voyager) so my flavor is in these big bikes to be able to go the store and haul groceries home. Hey, you have your kicks, I have mine. :>

 

Again, my thanks to Mr. Dano for answering some questions about the starter clutch issue. You guys rock.

 

Now help me get this thing running as I'm ready to ride.

 

Jack in Long Beach, MS

1989 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300

[cimmer]

Hi Jack, welcome to the group. I also have an 89 VR, so I will try to answer some of your questions .

 

The fuel pump does cycle on when you turn on the key to the run position and only runs for a short bit to top of the carbs. There are 4 overflow lines from the carbs, one for each, and they do exit the bike down by the swingarm. I would suggest taking off the saddle bags so you can get a clearer look and see if it is all or just one and maybe trace it back to the offending carb. Chances are you might have a stuck float that is holding open the needle seat valve and flooding the carb. But also check and make sure the gas supply line from the fuel filter to the carbs doesnt also have a leak. I know you said it is holding pressure but better to be safe then sorry.

I would also remove the rear tire too, as you might as well service the rear end and swing arm if you havent do so yet. One of the mods that a lot of us do is to add grease zerks to the pivot joints to keep things greased. I believe there is a how to on this in the library for 1st Gens.

I would also recommend getting the service manual for the bike, there is a PDF file in the tech section that can be downloaded to you PC.

You should not have to pull the tank or the seat to see this but removing the side panels to the fairing and the false tank cover does help. Also the air filter box can easily be removed also to get some light on the subject also. The overflow lines connect to the part of the carbs that face the center of the carb setup so taking off the air filter box would make it easier to see them, but also when trying to run the bike without the air filter assemble, the bike will not rev up properly without the air box.

 

Let us know if you have any other questions and no I dont have the correct powerball numbers either..

Rick F.

 

 

 

To All:

 

First, yes I'm a newbie here, but I'm going to first give a shout out to Mr. Dano for his help and a few texts to me. And YES I just paid! Best $12 anywhere!

 

So I landed this 89 VR for $500 (I'm unemployed, no bike, take what you can get and she's a beautiful bike!) Owner told me about some of the issues. So I found out starter clutch was shot after finding out the primary fuse was melted due to him trying to jump the bike to get it started. Starter clutch was cracked (oh dang what fun that's been getting that done but its REPLACED). But for a note for anyone doing the dreaded flywheel (not my first yamaha) I got the upgraded bolts like everyone said, put my electric impact on it, waited a few minutes, impact it again and OFF it popped! So finally that part is FIXED.

 

So here's the issue I'm dealing with. The bike will not crank (tries to so I'm going to assume electrics are just fine from all I'm seeing). But, when you try to crank fuel just POURS out of a hose and lands on top of that single spring on the rear. I found that it's coming out what appears to be the end of a hose (there are three of them running together from looking from the fuel pump side of the bike over the plastic shield over the motor that I can see). You try to crank the bike and fuel pump kicks and then oh heck does the fuel just come OUT of that hose.

 

Here are things that I've observed and points to help see if we can narrow this down

 

1. Fuel pump does work. I'm not 100% if it's working right but it will pump to pressure and stop. However if the line is off (I was going to pump the fuel out to change the filter) and it will only pump and then stop and won't restart unless the bike is turned off and back on (recycle).

2. Fuel appears to be clear AFTER I run some thru it. It appeared dirty at first, but the lines are also very dirty as well.

3. If the pump sits there to pressure, there's no leak. It only happened when you try to crank it and then damn it's pouring out that line.

4. This is very difficult to see.

5. Tank appears fine.

6. Length of time it sat-up before I got it could be about 4 months. Owner claims he never had this 'fuel pouring issue' when the starter clutch went out.

 

Questions:

 

A. Is this some type of fuel return line from the carbs? If so, that's nuts to me...never seen that.

B. Anyone seen of this before?

C. Do I have to pull the tank?

D. Is this something with carbs?

E. Is this line supposed to be attached to something (cut or otherwise?)

F. Can I get to it by pulling the seat without having to pull the tank (oh please...starter clutch was ENOUGH on me...)?

G. Does anyone have winning POWERBALL numbers so I can pay the bills and get a BRAND NEW bike????

 

HEY!!! The wife keeps yelling at me to pick better numbers!!! hahahahahahaha

 

Seriously though, I'm really happy to get this bike as it's just what I'm looking for as a BIG bike (I've had a GL1200 and Voyager) so my flavor is in these big bikes to be able to go the store and haul groceries home. Hey, you have your kicks, I have mine. :>

 

Again, my thanks to Mr. Dano for answering some questions about the starter clutch issue. You guys rock.

 

Now help me get this thing running as I'm ready to ride.

 

Jack in Long Beach, MS

1989 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300

[Yammer Dan]

Stuck Float Tap on carb with large screwdriver of extension something like that. 1st figure which overflow hose is doing it and to what carb

 

BerryMans Chemtech time

[cptriker1]

Thanks for the quick replies. I read another thread that points towards the stuck float(s). I thought I read that the bowls have drains so I'll see about draining to see if I can clean them. I'd rather do another clutch long before having to mess with a carb pack...oh I hope not...that looks like pulling them would be nothing short of a nightmare. I swear if I have to pull and clean them I'm going to put 3 filters in the fuel line!!! I just can't tell you how much I hate fooling with motorcycle carbs.

 

Thanks for the other advice as well. If this is the problem it's back to walmart for some Seafoam. I'll let you know if it works or not.

[snyper316]

Thanks for the quick replies. I read another thread that points towards the stuck float(s). I thought I read that the bowls have drains so I'll see about draining to see if I can clean them. I'd rather do another clutch long before having to mess with a carb pack...oh I hope not...that looks like pulling them would be nothing short of a nightmare. I swear if I have to pull and clean them I'm going to put 3 filters in the fuel line!!! I just can't tell you how much I hate fooling with motorcycle carbs.

 

Thanks for the other advice as well. If this is the problem it's back to walmart for some Seafoam. I'll let you know if it works or not.

Umm these carbs imho are better then working on carb from a 70s ford pickup.. But sure does sound like stuck float but with it cranking slow I would be worried about a hydro lock situation....

 

Sent from my LG-K371 using Tapatalk

[MiCarl]

Your cranking problem could be engine hydrolocked due to a cylinder full of gasoline. If you get one cylinder to fire and another is full of fuel you're likely to ruin the engine.

 

Pull spark plugs and turn the engine over by hand to clear any gasoline. Remove the cover on the left side of the crank case that says Yamaha. Centered under it is a plug that covers the end of the crank. Remove the plug and put a wrench on the crank to turn it. Only turn counter-clockwise.

[luvmy40]

I don't have any insight to your issues. I just want to assure you that working on these carbs is a breeze compared to the Hitachis on the Yamaha XJ series bikes.

 

Removal, service, pilot adjust and synch are simple in comparison. Parts are bit pricey, but not stupidly so.

 

Don't be afraid of them.

[bongobobny]

Here are the winning Powerball numbers...

 

# &( $% !@ & with the supplimental number of #*

 

Your problem is to figure out what date these numbers are valid for!

 

All of the above advice is very important! You need to isolate which carb is overflowing, and YES, VERY important to get all of that excess gas out of the cylinder! Hydrolock can and will bend rods...

 

Pull all 4 plugs and crank it over and watch which cylinder or cylinders spray a lot of gas out of...

[Yammer Dan]

What Bongo said. Seen it happen several times. Haven't ruined one yet!! Pull those Plugs and check!!

[MiCarl]

If you pull the plugs and crank it with the starter you MUST disable the ignition system. You don't want to make a fireball.

[cptriker1]

Update (10/3/17 @ 1319)

 

Hey everyone, so here's the update. I made a mistake about the fuel overflow as I was thinking about a previous bike. Lord, I did NOT know about this carb configuration! Holy smokes this is nuts with the floats on the SIDE of the unit not underneath???? Ok, my mind is blown now. When you made mention about the fuel overflow that was the key I was looking for. No need for me to remove much other than removed the air box and found all the overflow tubes. I quickly worked it out and dang it's the #1 carb that's just FLOWING fuel straight out like nuts.

 

I've already tapped all of them but still getting the flow issue (but that was before I actually identified which one was overflowing. I'm now considering just shooting straight carb cleaner into the overflow to see if it will get to the bowl OR attaching to the out line of the fuel pump and putting some carb cleaner into all of them and letting it sit overnight. Now before everyone blows a fuse at me let me say that I'm thinking about getting one bottle of Napa 6660. That stuff is the GO TO stuff for cleaning out a 3800 Series I V-6 engine (yes, a car engine...) It will clean when nothing else will, and I'm not into screwing around right now. I read where someone was able to pump into all the carbs going the fuel pump route by cycling on/off until they was full (yes, I'll have the drains open) and then let it sit overnight.

 

Well, if that doesn't work (seeing more overflow) then I'll know that I've got no choice but to pull the carb pack.

 

And then I'm going to get my pistol and blow my brains out. Death before doing that. HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEEHE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

No need to pull the plugs as there's no sign of hydrolocking. If there was, the previous owner would have already screwed me before it gets that far. But, pulling those plugs looks like a nightmare from HELL.

 

And would someone kindly give me a link to the BEST carb removal/cleaning/rebuild (w/part numbers). I just want to go ahead and start reading if it's going to be necessary.

 

I appreciate everyone. Everyone's a nubie once in their life....I'm just taking my past bike experiences and plugging forward. I just want to know she'll run so I know I've not wasted the $$$ and have to hear the wife GLOAT about it.

[bongobobny]

Actually, pulling the plugs is a breeze WITH the proper tools! You need a thin wall deep metric socket (I forgot the size,17mm or 19mm, 18mm??) and a universal joint and a short extension. You will also need to pull those front and rear plastic heat shields. They come out with minimal finagling...

 

On the 2nd Gens, you have to pull the gas tank and remove the dogbones to get to the plugs...

[snyper316]

Search for carb rebuild video I can't remember guys name off hand but best $20 I have spent I rebuilt my own carbs I bought off of eBay and let me tell ya tinker boot scoots boogy now... Perfect color on all spark plugs and pulling 34-42 mpg [emoji106]

 

Sent from my LG-K371 using Tapatalk

[MiCarl]

Plugs are 18mm. I use a thin wall socket and short extension. I don't think I use the universal but do have a flex head ratchet that I likely used when doing them. Heat shields don't need to come out if the extension isn't overly long. I lift the plugs out with one of those magnets on a stick.

 

If the #1 is dumping fuel there will be fuel in the #1 cylinder, until it drains into the crankcase. You're going to need an oil change too.

 

BTW, float still moves up and down like you're used to, the bowl just opens to the side rather than down like you're familiar with. Make sure the o-rings on the bowls are in good condition, since they have to actually hold the fuel in rather than keeping it from sloshing out they're more important than you're used to.

[Marcarl]

So to help with plug removal use an 18mm thin wall socket and I use a universal as a super short extension, then crack the plugs loose, blow air in around the plug area to get rid of any dirt and then spin them out with a short piece of fuel hose that fits snugly over the end of the plug. Putting them back in is the reverse except you don't need to do the air thing.

And hey, the carbs aren't all that complicated, if you've done carbs before, these are just a bit different, but not hard.

[cowpuc]

I too do the 18mm thin wall socket with a 1/4 drive ratchet to pull the plugs at times but cha know what,, I have found that the original stamped out plug socket that came in the tool kits to work the best.. I even like to use that cheapy stamped out box end wrench that came in there after I break the plug loose with a screw driver poked thru that set of holes in the top of that stamped out plug socket thingy..

Beyond that,, once they are loose,, EXACTLY what Carl mentions about slipping a hose over the plug to spin em out and in again!!

[snyper316]

I too do the 18mm thin wall socket with a 1/4 drive ratchet to pull the plugs at times but cha know what,, I have found that the original stamped out plug socket that came in the tool kits to work the best.. I even like to use that cheapy stamped out box end wrench that came in there after I break the plug loose with a screw driver poked thru that set of holes in the top of that stamped out plug socket thingy..

Beyond that,, once they are loose,, EXACTLY what Carl mentions about slipping a hose over the plug to spin em out and in again!!

That is all I use is that thin wall socket that came with the bike I didn't even think about using a hose at the end of that plug

 

Sent from my LG-K371 using Tapatalk

[cptriker1]

Update: 10/4/2017 @ 1727

 

Sigh. Bad news. Well, it appears that despite taping and soaking the #1 carb in cleaner it's still doing the same thing of just pumping fuel out of the overflow tube. I could try soaking it some more, but to be honest with all the fuel that's pumping out the top it'd be safe to say that pulling the carb pack might be my only choice....

 

Problem is that I've still not heard this bike run one time so that I know I'm going in the right direction.

 

So, the question is has anyone been able to just remove the bowl section off a carb with it still on the bike? Is it possible? Kinda looks like so from looking down on them but still I'm going to ask.

 

Also, I still needed to know if anyone has a video or the best detailed instructions on how to do this from start to end on carb removal?

[MiCarl]

Update: 10/4/2017 @ 1727

So, the question is has anyone been able to just remove the bowl section off a carb with it still on the bike? Is it possible? Kinda looks like so from looking down on them but still I'm going to ask.

 

You have to split the rack L/R to get the bowls off. Rack needs to come off to do that. Short cuts are rarely worth it anyhow.

 

Here is how I'd approach this:

1) Pull the spark plugs, disconnect the fuel pump and make sure you can crank it by hand.

2) Pull the carbs out and disconnect the TCI.

3) If the starter still won't spin it fix that issue.

4) Do a compression test.

5) Reconnect the TCI, Install (NEW) spark plugs into the ignition wires and ground the plugs. Check for spark.

6) Do a proper service job on the carburetors.

 

Of course if any of the steps doesn't work you'll need to look into why.

 

** Ask for help at each step rather than getting mired down in the total job. **

[Yammer Dan]

If you have Spray cleaner shoot it back up thru the

 

 

DRAIN

hole!

[cptriker1]

I took the incoming fuel line to get it full of seafoam. If it fails after 24 hour sit, then off come those carbs!

 

And I'll get some new plugs...thanks for the info...ill keep battling on...im too old to give up...

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Yammer Dan]

Open Drain and stick straw on can up in there and spray good!! sometimes works. Might save pulling.

[cptriker1]

UPDATE: 1306 10/8/2017

 

As you know I live in Long Beach, MS which just got run-over by hurricane Nate. Just lots and lots of rain. I didn't lose power but my mom did about 40 miles from me. I'm about 1.5 miles above the water, so we got that rain in buckets. At least it's gone now and it's nice outside.

 

Due to the hurricane, I let it sit for nearly 2+ days in the seafoam. Drained and retried---failed...also flushed it out fully with carb spray and no change.

 

No other option but to pull them now. If it's not hung up somehow and that float is bad then I'm DEEPLY concerned about how to fix it. Some people talk about using airplane dope, but if anything with MEK hits it I'm fully screwed. Does anyone know of anything that's used as a replacement float?

 

I've never set float height before. If nothing is wrong with it I can pull the carbs and clean them out but setting that height is something I've never done. I'm working with the fact to just pull them and ONE at a TIME clean the piss out of them, get them back on the bike, and then synch ((if the bike runs at all...that's the million $$$ question right now...)) so I'm not planning to get any carb kits.

 

Anyone want to point me to the best link for carbs for these bike?

[cptriker1]

Does anyone have the part number for the carb float? What numbers do you need from me so I can start looking for one.

[CaseyJ955]

Im at work so I dont have the link handy, but there is a link on the Factory Pro webside for float adjustment for Vmax, but its the same measurement and proceedure, virtually identical carbs. Its an old bike so removal and cleaning of said carbs might be prudent anyway. It allows you to inspect things like jet block plugs, jet sizes and diaphragms (that can be done with carbs installed). If this is a bike your going to take out over the road on trips its a good idea. Its easy to burn some calories trying to avoid pulling them, ask me how I know haha. If the bike sat for a length of time with ethanol tainted fuel you may be unable to flush out all those nasty corn squeezings without removal/dissassembly.

 

If your somewhat mechanically inclined and have basic tools you will have them off in an afternoon with only mild profanity. Its a snug fit to slide the rack out but quite doable.

 

For the floats, they are not a common fail item, they can be weighed to make sure they are consistent and one is not saturated, there is also a buoyancy test to make sure tbey all float the same. When replacing ANY parts inside the carb (or anywhere else on the bike, or any vehi le for that mater) NEVER EVER use Chinese parts, never! ALWAYS USE OEM parts or a good Japanese aftermarket like K&L which is aftermarket and Japanese, available on Ebay all day long. Avoid the great prices on generic stuff or you WILL end up doing the job over again and buying the quality parts anyway. Snap a few pics of the rack with your phone to make sure it goes back together the same, do carbs in pairs jusr in case you need a reference on assembly. Get a good quality #3 phillips and vice grip if you dont have JIS screwdrivers. These are things I have learned with my Venture and Vmax (same-ish engine and carbs). If any of this saves you headaches and/or $$ then its worth it to make a longwinded post.