2018 Yamaha Star Eluder

[Rafterd]

The new Star Eluder.

 

http://ridermagazine.com/2017/09/06/2018-yamaha-star-eluder-first-look-review/

[Brew]

That back rest bracket is a bit hideous!!!!! If I were to spend that kind of cash I would probably go with the HD Road Glide...

I may just end up with a F6B

[gibvel]

Seriously, who named this thing?

[cowpuc]

Dear Mom Yam:

I,,,,,, oh,,, wait a minute,,,, I dont have to retype that letter,,, I can just copy/paste the letter here to make sure you get your mail.. Copy/pasted from this thread:

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?132122-Something-else-new-is-coming-next-week/page2

 

it reads:

Dear Mom Yam

If you are monitoring this thread please jump back to post #9 herein and note that, while being able to continue eluding the masses in their ability to predict or even remotely understand your reasoning for the introduction of your 2018 V-Twin, belt drive, air cooled "touring" bikes,, your wayward son here in Michigan is no longer being eluded..

Proven by my amazingly accurate prophetic prediction back in number 9. I simply put into action everything you taught me thru the years about avoiding being eluded and, even though I was intitially thrown off the trail at the unveiling in New York by you putting the model name "Venture" that was built upon your mighty V-4 platform onto a V-Twin scoot , I am now clearly back on track in my ability to avoid being eluded.. THANK YOU!!

Mom,, I want you to know that my self confidence has also returned. So much so that, while eluding your eluding ways and KNOWING that I was right in my prediction that you were going to continue chasing HD and go after their Street Glide market, I stopped at a Harley shop last weekend and picked up a copy of the introduction to their 2018 line up. Knowing HD would have their MSRP stated clearly in that catalog (you taught me eluding avoidance so well, HD gave up trying to elude me a long time ago) I brought one home just so I could snap some pics of those prices for you.

Internally, similar to Polaris with that bike they are doing the same thing with - you know, the one with the fairing that looks like a sheet of plywood with lights painted on it, I knew you were going to attempt a toe to toe stand with The Motor Company on comparable models.. After looking at the MSRP on this Street Glide market clone - I am very glad I did.. I have a hunch that you have dropped your professional marketing staff (more on why the reason for that doesnt elude me either in a second) so please take a peek at the attached pics and note those MSRP quotes from HD.. Upon doing so you will probably note that you, like Polaris has done, have actually priced these new machines above and beyond that of the competitor you are trying to take customers from,, did those numbers elude you?

I am sure realizing that The Motor Company has been able to produce low budget, extremely low RnD cost, very simple in design and concept (right out of the early 1900's as a matter of fact) motorcycles and sell them at prices that even an exotic Auto Manufacturer would be jealous of is unnerving. Ya gotta not let this get to you Mom, fact is, the reasoning for their ability to do so has eluded master marketeers for years - even to the point that some would say that HD's pathway to success in this great eluding is the Worlds 8th wonder..

I know and am sure that by copying HD's methods and finding you no longer need to employ Marketeers and RnD staff of your own (probably even were able to be rid of 70% of manufacturing staff as producing air cooled V-Twin's is that much easier) because it would seem that just doing what ever HD is doing and all will be well probably seems right.. Mom,, I think you may want to listen to your son in Michigan and dont continue in that practice - don't elude yourself..

What I am eluding too is this.. Take a real close look at the MSRP prices in the pics.. Come in at 30% lower than comparable scoots of the HD line on these new ones but, understand that even at that - big twin air cooled buyers are usually not effected by $$'s = means nothing to them (thats the great eluding fact = theres way more to the HD phenomenon of being able to get into peoples pockets than eluded to) - you will probably still have a hard time clearing out the product like you did with the Strats/Roadliners/Raiders/Warriors and Roadies.. Dont give up,, once ya clear em out,, hire your RnD guys back, fire who ever came over from Victory with visions of that fairing look that eludes a lot of people, grab the prints on the water cooled 1700cc V-Max and get to work producing a touring machine that will blow past an 1800 Gold Wing like the 1st Gen Ventures would dust off the Gold Wings of their day and age.. Drop a sexy fixed wing fairing on it ONLY put it on a rail system so it opens like the hood of a car exposing EVERYTHING from air breather to spark plugs = making it the easiest touring bike on the planet to work on.. Focus on ease of maintenance across the board so real touring people dont have to waste a week of their touring vacation just to get an oil change... In other words,, return to your roots,, build something for us that REALLY does turn the touring world upside down!!

 

Do you get what I am eluding to?

Your eluding son

Puc

 

 

[cowpuc]

Seriously, who named this thing?

 

The answer to that eludes me..

 

I am still suspicious that Arlen Ness or someone else from Polaris jumped ship when they closed out their horrible selling air cooled belt drive big T-twin motored Victory line and somehow landed in Yamaha's Design group.. If so, if would be a short jump from there for someone who had lost their Vision to get into the naming of this new scoot,, IMHO.

It sure seems like things have changed HUGELY since the days of iconic naming of the legends like the Banshee, Fazer, V-Max, Venture or even that little rippen moped appropriately named the Zuma or that little kids three wheeler named the Tri-Zinger...

[Du-Rron]

Seriously, who named this thing?

 

They didn't think about Elude a Venture. Marketing guys.....

[cruiserlover]

http://ridermagazine.com/2017/07/21/2018-yamaha-star-venture-road-test-review/

 

 

this might change our minds about how great this bike is.I want one.

[camos]

http://ridermagazine.com/2017/07/21/2018-yamaha-star-venture-road-test-review/

 

 

this might change our minds about how great this bike is.I want one.

Nah, it was obviously a great bike from the beginning even though it is not a Venture. It would have been an incomparably fantastic bike if it was a Gen 3.

 

That article is overflowing with complements but also has some obvious fake news:

Connect your phone via Bluetooth and optional J&M headsets via cable (Bluetooth headsets don’t offer enough separate data channels) and you can make and receive calls, stream music from multiple sources, chat on the intercom or CB and ask the GPS for directions.

If Sena could do it then Yamaha could have done it. Just more hype and excuses from Yamaha.

[MikeWa]

A quote from the article.

"Well, Yamaha says these two approaches have left many riders confused and unable to choose between them."

Personally I think they left Yamaha confused.

 

Mike

[snyper316]

The answer to that eludes me..

 

I am still suspicious that Arlen Ness or someone else from Polaris jumped ship when they closed out their horrible selling air cooled belt drive big T-twin motored Victory line and somehow landed in Yamaha's Design group.. If so, if would be a short jump from there for someone who had lost their Vision to get into the naming of this new scoot,, IMHO.

It sure seems like things have changed HUGELY since the days of iconic naming of the legends like the Banshee, Fazer, V-Max, Venture or even that little rippen moped appropriately named the Zuma or that little kids three wheeler named the Tri-Zinger...

 

Scott Sledgister The Yamaha Venture used to be a 4 cylinder water cooled shaft drive bike. Now it's a vtwin air cooled belt driven bike with dual headlights. It looks great and is likely an amazing machine but who can really argue with a straight face that it's not a HD Road Glide clone?

Yamaha is going straight after Harley lunch and dessert.

[snyper316]

Robert Maas Mark Simmons no argument there I believe if they hadn't come out with the new Milwaukee Eight they would be headed into the abyss. They are also overpriced, which is one reason they are having a hard time attracting younger riders. The new CVO's are priced over the moon which is why I'll never buy another one. I was very disappointed Yamaha chose to only air cool the latest touring bike, from what I've read it has everything for those long touring trips. I know some guys that swear by the Gold Wing for the long touring trips, and as my wife are getting close to full retirement that may be the way we'll go. After 37 years I retired 8 years ago, but went back to work after 3 months. Some of my younger coworkers asked OMG why did you go back to work? My reply is I own a Harley lol.

 

Another post I found on the new Venture from facebook. I am still left amazed by what seems to be a very big mistake, Now pucster got himself an R1 which isn't my view of a true motorcycle and it makes my blood curtle when I here someone claim to be a biker and only own a Rocket, my eyes this is and never will be a Bike.... But still want to ride one... but couldn't own one... be lucky to ride it for more then 20 minutes before I get the feeling of being hit by a truck again...

[cowpuc]

Robert Maas Mark Simmons no argument there I believe if they hadn't come out with the new Milwaukee Eight they would be headed into the abyss. They are also overpriced, which is one reason they are having a hard time attracting younger riders. The new CVO's are priced over the moon which is why I'll never buy another one. I was very disappointed Yamaha chose to only air cool the latest touring bike, from what I've read it has everything for those long touring trips. I know some guys that swear by the Gold Wing for the long touring trips, and as my wife are getting close to full retirement that may be the way we'll go. After 37 years I retired 8 years ago, but went back to work after 3 months. Some of my younger coworkers asked OMG why did you go back to work? My reply is I own a Harley lol.

 

Another post I found on the new Venture from facebook. I am still left amazed by what seems to be a very big mistake, Now pucster got himself an R1 which isn't my view of a true motorcycle and it makes my blood curtle when I here someone claim to be a biker and only own a Rocket, my eyes this is and never will be a Bike.... But still want to ride one... but couldn't own one... be lucky to ride it for more then 20 minutes before I get the feeling of being hit by a truck again...

 

I get that Snype,, I really do!! I have a bunch of really close friends here who feel exactly the same way about Maggy the R1 and I TOTALLY understand where they are coming from too.. I can only tell you what I tell them:

Try not to think of Maggy as a motorcycle,,, think of her more like owning your very own, for real,, modern day,, best of the best adrenalin producing Roller Coaster.. One you can get on and get a rush any time you want to.. Seriously,,, this thing is that serious and that much,, should we say,, FUN x100!!!!!!!!!

 

Now,, to show you how warped I am brother and in the same spirit of curiousity that you present here,, something that continues to boggle my mind is the seamless question of why Mom Yam didn't instill some of that some adrenalin pumping,, fun loving GET UP AND GO technology in the new Venture or,, probably even ruder - the Eluder.. She could have sooo easily pulled a water cooled, shaft drive 1700cc V-Max motor off the shelf,, dropped a couple turbo's on it, like the car companies are doing now adays, and produced a touring bike like non other - a REAL game changer!!

I know,, I KNOW - there are LINES of folks even on Venture rider who will say = "Puc is CRAZY" to which I calmly reply = "just cause ya got it dont mean ya gotta use it".. Other side of that coin is,, if ya aint got it = YOU CANT USE IT!!

Edited September 11, 2017 by cowpuc

[snyper316]

I get that Snype,, I really do!! I have a bunch of really close friends here who feel exactly the same way about Maggy the R1 and I TOTALLY understand where they are coming from too.. I can only tell you what I tell them:

Try not to think of Maggy as a motorcycle,,, think of her more like owning your very own, for real,, modern day,, best of the best adrenalin producing Roller Coaster.. One you can get on and get a rush any time you want to.. Seriously,,, this thing is that serious and that much,, should we say,, FUN x100!!!!!!!!!

 

I believe you they are fun for that I am sure, Ever road a pocket rocket. HOLY Hell never did I figure I would see 50mph on such a small bike and get this it was within feet. now that little thing was fun!! Guy claimed 60 was top speed, I do not know but that little thing was fun and I would own one of them lmao, now explain that!! I didn't call meself a biker with that little thing didn't start claiming to be a biker till I got Tinker, sure I had scoots and dirt bikes, but never once said I was a biker. At first felt kind of strange saying I was a biker on a Yamahammer, but I love to yamahammer around. I still think she is more bike then a Hardly at least I can go weeks without working on her.... even when she isn't 100%.. Can't say I will never own a Hardly but would not look forward to the parts bills!!!

[cowpuc]

http://ridermagazine.com/2017/07/21/2018-yamaha-star-venture-road-test-review/

 

 

this might change our minds about how great this bike is.I want one.

 

VERY VERY GOOD READ CRUISE!! Thanks!!

 

There is a LOT of good info in there and some answers for us folks who have ridden this new one..

One thing comes to mind, I was VERY happy to finally see an actual dyno print on this new machine. No one,, not even the factory boys at Sturgis could answer my question of "why doesnt it feel like it has 126 Ft/Lbs of torque but feels more like the umphhh of an old stock 88 inch Harley Twin Cam if it has 126 ft/lbs and why no stated Horse Power or quarter mile times like Yamaha did with the 1st Gens?"... Many of us gear head types have been begging for an actual dyno readout like FINALLY provided in this read = IT IS HERE = THANK YOU!! I will admit though,, if a person reads thru the comments in this article (if any one is really interested in touring bikes of the day and especially this new one - they truly need to read the comments,, the devils in the details), I could not help but notice that someone actually had to call the editor of the Magazine out in order to get that printed = for some reason neither Mom Yam nor the Magazine really wanted that info out..

If you gaze at the dyno results you may notice that my seat of the pants take on the scoot was not that far off all the way along.. The motor is a neutered (again,, probably due to the additional weight on its crank) 77 horse (under 60 horse at its normal operating range of R's) and 109 ft/lbs (far from the claimed 126 Ft/Lbs),, now couple that with its size/weight and one can easily under stand why it feels lathargic and very similar to one of those early HD Twin Cams.. For me,, all this explained a LOT concerning why I was feeling what I was feeling and not what I was told I was suppose to be feeling when we rode it..

 

Edited September 11, 2017 by cowpuc

[Bigfraid]

VERY VERY GOOD READ CRUISE!! Thanks!!

 

There is a LOT of good info in there and some answers for us folks who have ridden this new one..

One thing comes to mind, I was VERY happy to finally see an actual dyno print on this new machine. No one,, not even the factory boys at Sturgis could answer my question of "why doesnt it feel like it has 126 Ft/Lbs of torque but feels more like the umphhh of an old stock 88 inch Harley Twin Cam if it has 126 ft/lbs and why no stated Horse Power or quarter mile times like Yamaha did with the 1st Gens?"... Many of us gear head types have been begging for an actual dyno readout like FINALLY provided in this read = IT IS HERE = THANK YOU!! I will admit though,, if a person reads thru the comments in this article (if any one is really interested in touring bikes of the day and especially this new one - they truly need to read the comments,, the devils in the details), I could not help but notice that someone actually had to call the editor of the Magazine out in order to get that printed = for some reason neither Mom Yam nor the Magazine really wanted that info out..

If you gaze at the dyno results you may notice that my seat of the pants take on the scoot was not that far off all the way along.. The motor is a neutered (again,, probably due to the additional weight on its crank) 77 horse (under 60 horse at its normal operating range of R's) and 109 ft/lbs (far from the claimed 126 Ft/Lbs),, now couple that with its size/weight and one can easily under stand why it feels lathargic and very similar to one of those early HD Twin Cams.. For me,, all this explained a LOT concerning why I was feeling what I was feeling and not what I was told I was suppose to be feeling when we rode it..

 

https://i0.wp.com/ridermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Screen-Shot-2017-07-21-at-11.49.51-AM.png?resize=640%2C348

 

Here is a dyno on a stock 107 H-D

 

[IdahoHacker]

...77 horse (under 60 horse at its normal operating range of R's) and 109 ft/lbs (far from the claimed 126 Ft/Lbs),, now couple that with its size/weight and one can easily under stand why it feels lathargic and very similar to one of those early HD Twin Cams.. For me,, all this explained a LOT concerning why I was feeling what I was feeling and not what I was told I was suppose to be feeling when we rode it..

 

https://i0.wp.com/ridermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Screen-Shot-2017-07-21-at-11.49.51-AM.png?resize=640%2C348

 

The stated tq is at the crankshaft, as it is with all manufacturer's specs.

 

A 107 ci Milwaukee 8 motor dynos approximately 78 hp and 98 lb-ft of torque at the rear tire. But, the tq figure for the M8 is at around 3,500 rpm, so the TC will feel much punchier at normal rpm's.

[cowpuc]

The stated tq is at the crankshaft, as it is with all manufacturer's specs.

 

A 107 ci Milwaukee 8 motor dynos approximately 78 hp and 98 lb-ft of torque at the rear tire. But, the tq figure for the M8 is at around 3,500 rpm, so the TC will feel much punchier at normal rpm's.

 

I failed to feel anything punchy about it,, at least the one I rode, nothing remotely close to a stock M8 or a stock Stratoliner for that matter. Neutered would be a closer way to describe it, very similar in pull to a few 88 inch twin cams I have owned..

Perhaps its the weight, perhaps the additional weight on the crank from the xtra balance shaft and the xtra alternator is sucking the heart out of it - dont know but I do know it is far from what I would consider punchy, IMHO..

[cowpuc]

I failed to feel anything punchy about it,, at least the one I rode, nothing remotely close to a stock M8 or a stock Stratoliner for that matter. Neutered would be a closer way to describe it, very similar in pull to a few 88 inch twin cams I have owned..

Perhaps its the weight, perhaps the additional weight on the crank from the xtra balance shaft and the xtra alternator is sucking the heart out of it - dont know but I do know it is far from what I would consider punchy, IMHO..

Un

 

OPPPSSSS,, my bad! I thought I was still talking about the new Venture,, just realised we are talking Eluder and I have NO experience with those at all - havent even seen one yet so I spoke wayyy out of my place - have NOTHING tobase an honest opinion on the Eluder yet..

[dalethemale]

Can't wait for some of those Eluders to hit the used market(let someone else take the depreciation hit). After a couple of Demo rides I loved it! The power to weight ratio(vs the Venture) was noticeable, no top heavy feel (without the trunk that 875lbs doesn't feel that bad) and the bagger look(vs a full on Geezer Glide) is more my style. I will miss the electric windshield(once you have one you'll know why) and the Eluder doesn't come in Red this year.

Edited December 24, 2017 by dalethemale

[Du-Rron]

New article about Eluder @

 

http://ridermagazine.com/2018/01/15/2018-yamaha-star-eluder-first-ride-review/

 

One thing they keep lying about in the articles (cuz I guess they just don't know enough) is that the engine will NOT need valve adjustments. It will.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Du-Rron
Forgot the word "not"

[cowpuc]

New article about Eluder @

 

http://ridermagazine.com/2018/01/15/2018-yamaha-star-eluder-first-ride-review/

 

One thing they keep lying about in the articles (cuz I guess they just don't know enough) is that the engine will need valve adjustments.

 

I SOOO hear that Duey

 

I give em a break though cause I even personally heard those reps out at Sturgis talking about exactly this as a low maintenance sell point when comparing to the past Ventures... I think part of the misnomer may come in because of the similarities between the Harley Twin Cam push rod motor with their hydraulic lifters and these.. Maybe the problem often over looked by that comparison is that these have 4 valve heads instead of 2 valve so that single pushrod is opening 2 valves each and both those valves are prone to wear at some point leaving 1 exhaust valve or 1 intake valve per rocker with a definite need for manual adjustment... Funny thing is, right at Sturgis, sitting not 200 feet from those same Reps, they had a cutaway of the motor and I know those 113's had that valve adjuster on the outboard valves on each rocker (clearly visible at 2:50 in the second video).. *** DEFINITELY easier than shim buckets associated with the V-4's but DEFINITELY gonna be some valve adjusting going on and, in my experience with shim vs screw adjuster's - the screw adjusters do require significant more adjusting BUT again, the screw type like the 113's are easier to do..

I have heard, read, listen to all the performance music on this new one and have continually been confused about what I have read there too.. When we rode the Venture out there numerous times my butt dyno kept yelling at me "88 inch HD Road King" of which I have owned a couple of.. I have assisted with building and have significant experience with Harley's 103's too and definitely felt nothing in league with those scoots BUT,, again,, my butt dyno is a no body so what does it know.. Interestingly here,, now reading this article you posted I could not help but notice that the original 126 torque claim now shows 109 and the hp numbers show 76 horse.. Couple that with the horse power to weight ratio differences between my 88 inch Road King and this new one, together with the fact that this new 113 is carrying the weight of an xtra balancer and xtra alternator (another one of my power loss theories) and bingo = my wore out ol butt dyno may not be to far off!!

Side note = I really do like this new one but I still have dreams of exactly this bike, with its "dont mess with me" fighter jet grill/fairing combo and that great big wide "V" shaped headlight formation grinning its nasty snarly attitude that boldly claims highway dominance from all comers from far and wide because it has a 190 hp V-4 hidden in there:178:!! GOOD GRIEF I AM HOPELESSLY TWISTED!!

:ignore:,, sorry ,, got side tracked,, GOOD READ = thanks Duey!!! :thumbsup:

 

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by cowpuc

[WildBill1]

If a high performance curiser is what you are after look at the spec's on the BMW 1600B.

 

160 hp at 7759 rpm.

 

129 ft/lbs. of torque at 5250 rpm.

 

All the above for around 20k. Reason for me to sell two of my Harley's.

[Du-Rron]

If a high performance curiser is what you are after look at the spec's on the BMW 1600B.

 

160 hp at 7759 rpm.

 

129 ft/lbs. of torque at 5250 rpm.

 

All the above for around 20k. Reason for me to sell two of my Harley's.

 

And... its got 700 watts of alternator as well.

[Karaboo]

That article also said the last Yamaha Venture was in 2009. OOPS.

[WRIDR]

2009 was the last year for the RSTD. Maybe they referred to that?

 

Rgds, WRIDR