Some interesting thoughts on the new Venture from others who CTFW...

[cowpuc]

I love reading what others riding other breeds of touring scoots are thinking of the new Venny... I found this one earlier here while surfing = over 50 pages from what sounds like folks who may be touring riders:

http://gl1800riders.com/forums/4-general-mc-message-board/351121-new-yamaha-tourer.html and been picking thru it.. Pretty interesting insight IMHO...

This comment was written by someone before the unveiling,,, never occurred to me that Kawasaki went thru a similar situation when moving from their inline 4 Voyager to the V-Twin... Pretty interesting read:

"""In 2003, Kawasaki did a survey primarily from the American Voyager Association membership, on what they'd like to see in a new Voyager. Most members at the time were on the Voyager 12 (I had bought my '90 XII in November of '02), and a few on the old space shuttle technology 1300. They had posted the results in one of the newsletters. In 2004, Kawasaki had basically said, that the new Voyager was a go, but all they would say at the time (if I recall correctly), was that it was going to be fuel injected and not a V-twin. The chairman/liason had been to Kaw in California, and had seen the engine. But mum was the word. Many had been holding off jumping ship and going with a Wing, to see what Kaw was going to do. Hopefully, a Wing killer, or at least, a Wing competitor. The only reason a Kawasaki dealer ever sold a Voyager 12, was when someone came in looking for a Wing, and couldn't afford it, didn't want to spend it, or was intimidated by it (either the 1500 or 1800) and the dealer says, "Oh, we have this thing over here in the corner/warehouse. And it's cheaper."

 

At the 2005 AVA rally, there was no news on the new Voyager. Shortly after, it was announced that Kaw was shelving the project indefinitely. The first wave of Voyager owners jumped over to GL1800s or anything else. Mainly Wings though. 2 or 3 years later, they said the new Voyager project had been renewed. But they absolutely let no info out until its debut. And I can't blame them. When the V-twin Vulcan Voyager 1700 was released, the second wave of Voyager owners left. I felt let down. Betrayed. The bean counters had won. They saw the money that Harley was raking in with their, ahem, "motorcycles", LOL, and decided that they too, could rake in the dough. But what they failed to understand was, that if I, or others, really wanted a V-twin cruiser/tourer, we'd already own a Harley. With their dealer network, I mean, it's like McDonald's. They're everywhere!

 

I hope Yamaha did it right. I won't buy one. But I hope they did it right. If Yamaha gets away from the Royal Star bagger tourer and goes full tilt mega-flagship, then maybe someone at Kaw will wake up. They'd better hurry though. The '03 GL1800 I bought a week and a half ago, has already started moving its own stuff in. Like it's going to stay a while or something. I'm not ready to share a toothbrush.............yet."""

[Condor]

Good thoughts Puc. Personally I think there,s gonna be another Venture wave leaving the fold....

[camos]

Very interesting comments alright. Even though they are Wing riders they are pretty much matching many if not most of the ones we have had on this topic. Not only that but also matching the disappointment many have felt with the direction Yamaha chose to go.

[MikeWa]

Puc

Makes me wonder how Voyager sales have been going. I have not seen any news of them slam dunking Harley. But perhaps their sales are off the charts and exceeding everything they had hoped for. That would certainly be a good reason to emulate their success. Perhaps Yamaha could steal some Kawasaki sales.

 

Mike

[BigLenny]

Thanks Puc. Good read.

 

I must say, the Kawi story and Yammy story kind of look the same on the surface, but actually, there is quite a difference.

 

What Yamaha has done is gone full bore, top of the line, even forward thinking, design and offering of the electronics, style, and performance, with the obvious exception of using the air cooled v-twin. Introducing the easy park system, making the bike kinda of straddle the design of the victory instead of trying to match the Harley is a very smart move by Yamaha. Introducing the first full boat touring bike with traction control is forward thinking. Drive by wire is forward thinking. Heated grips, rider and passenger seats, is forward thinking. Glove friendly touch screen with GPS is forward thinking. Integrated communication system. And the list goes on and on and on.

 

Kawasaki did none of this. Yes, they used a water cooled engine. But, the thing was such a heat producer that they had to design an under the seat blower unit to try to alleviate the pain, and it really hasn't helped that much. Right after they introduced it, my wife and I took about an hour long test ride on one. We were completely unimpressed. Right off the bat, we noticed how flimsy the saddle bag lids were, and the rear trunk lid was the same. The windshield vibrated at freeway speeds. The bike had no communications system, and no heated seats or grips. Everything about the bike felt cheap. You could tell they cut corners everywhere to sell it at a price point far below the others to see if that strategy would work. If I had been a Voyager rider, waiting on Kawi to hit the market with a wow, and they came out with that, I would've left them too.

 

But, as we all know, Yamaha has taken a vastly different road. Everything about this new Venture appears to scream high quality. Even the air cooled motor is know to be very high quality. All of the bike magazines who have had the chance to ride it are ranting and raving about it. That was not the case with the new Voyager.

 

The only similarity of the new Voyager and the new Venture is they are both V-Twins. Other than that, these two bikes are worlds apart.

 

Big Lenny

[cowpuc]

Thanks Puc. Good read.

 

I must say, the Kawi story and Yammy story kind of look the same on the surface, but actually, there is quite a difference.

 

What Yamaha has done is gone full bore, top of the line, even forward thinking, design and offering of the electronics, style, and performance, with the obvious exception of using the air cooled v-twin. Introducing the easy park system, making the bike kinda of straddle the design of the victory instead of trying to match the Harley is a very smart move by Yamaha. Introducing the first full boat touring bike with traction control is forward thinking. Drive by wire is forward thinking. Heated grips, rider and passenger seats, is forward thinking. Glove friendly touch screen with GPS is forward thinking. Integrated communication system. And the list goes on and on and on.

 

Kawasaki did none of this. Yes, they used a water cooled engine. But, the thing was such a heat producer that they had to design an under the seat blower unit to try to alleviate the pain, and it really hasn't helped that much. Right after they introduced it, my wife and I took about an hour long test ride on one. We were completely unimpressed. Right off the bat, we noticed how flimsy the saddle bag lids were, and the rear trunk lid was the same. The windshield vibrated at freeway speeds. The bike had no communications system, and no heated seats or grips. Everything about the bike felt cheap. You could tell they cut corners everywhere to sell it at a price point far below the others to see if that strategy would work. If I had been a Voyager rider, waiting on Kawi to hit the market with a wow, and they came out with that, I would've left them too.

 

But, as we all know, Yamaha has taken a vastly different road. Everything about this new Venture appears to scream high quality. Even the air cooled motor is know to be very high quality. All of the bike magazines who have had the chance to ride it are ranting and raving about it. That was not the case with the new Voyager.

 

The only similarity of the new Voyager and the new Venture is they are both V-Twins. Other than that, these two bikes are worlds apart.

 

Big Lenny

 

Thanks Lenny,,, very well put and very interesting perspective brother... Noticing your comment above about ""making the bike kinda of straddle the design of the victory instead of trying to match the Harley is a very smart move by Yamaha"" really hit a nerve with me.. I noticed, which appeared to my untrained eye as the Polaris Victory "look" right away at the unveiling,, matter of fact - after getting over the initial shock that indeed, my hope for the Mom Yam to roll out a new Venture with a 1700cc V-Max motor in shaft drive had just been dashed - I spoke those exact words to Tip = "looks like someone from Polaris Victory - maybe Arlen Ness - has jumped ship".. After things set in, we got home and started reading on a variety of sites = I noticed the gang over on "TheVog" also seen what I saw and were wayyyyy excited about it - they REALLY felt betrayed by Polaris and many seem to see what they had hoped for in the next stage of Victory that Polaris had turned their backs on sitting there in the form of the new Yam... I write all this to confirm and clarify that I totally am right there with ya..

Only thing that I simply still dont get,,,, that being that the very reason that Polaris ceased ops and manufactering the entire Victory line is because it did not sell - it flat out could not compete with the owner of the huge, air cooled, V-Twin market = HD - proven after a very long 18 years of attempting to do just that...

Now overlay that thought with Mom Yam's lack of success with the Strat/Roadliner/Raider line itself in competing with HD.. Many of those bikes sat idle as NOS as a highly discounted product on dealership floors for years,, just like the Vics.. There were some great deals out there (may still be) with 1/2 of MSRP not unheard of and they still didnt sell.. Now,, years later,, a person can find some REALLY sharp examples of these bikes on the used market for CHEAP... Not saying I dont think the 113 Yam is not a great platform - personally - I LOVE IT but facts are facts...

Am I missing something here?? Could you expound on why Mom Yam straddling Victory is a positive??

THANKS BROTHER - YOUR THOUGHTS ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED!!

Puc

[BigLenny]

Thanks Lenny,,, very well put and very interesting perspective brother... Noticing your comment above about ""making the bike kinda of straddle the design of the victory instead of trying to match the Harley is a very smart move by Yamaha"" really hit a nerve with me.. I noticed, which appeared to my untrained eye as the Polaris Victory "look" right away at the unveiling,, matter of fact - after getting over the initial shock that indeed, my hope for the Mom Yam to roll out a new Venture with a 1700cc V-Max motor in shaft drive had just been dashed - I spoke those exact words to Tip = "looks like someone from Polaris Victory - maybe Arlen Ness - has jumped ship".. After things set in, we got home and started reading on a variety of sites = I noticed the gang over on "TheVog" also seen what I saw and were wayyyyy excited about it - they REALLY felt betrayed by Polaris and many seem to see what they had hoped for in the next stage of Victory that Polaris had turned their backs on sitting there in the form of the new Yam... I write all this to confirm and clarify that I totally am right there with ya..

Only thing that I simply still dont get,,,, that being that the very reason that Polaris ceased ops and manufactering the entire Victory line is because it did not sell - it flat out could not compete with the owner of the huge, air cooled, V-Twin market = HD - proven after a very long 18 years of attempting to do just that...

Now overlay that thought with Mom Yam's lack of success with the Strat/Roadliner/Raider line itself in competing with HD.. Many of those bikes sat idle as NOS as a highly discounted product on dealership floors for years,, just like the Vics.. There were some great deals out there (may still be) with 1/2 of MSRP not unheard of and they still didnt sell.. Now,, years later,, a person can find some REALLY sharp examples of these bikes on the used market for CHEAP... Not saying I dont think the 113 Yam is not a great platform - personally - I LOVE IT but facts are facts...

Am I missing something here?? Could you expound on why Mom Yam straddling Victory is a positive??

THANKS BROTHER - YOUR THOUGHTS ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED!!

Puc

 

That is a very valid question, Puc.

 

I'm not sure I have a good answer. But, I guess the main thing I'm thinking is; the path is littered with Harley wanna be bikes that HD has shot down. So many times manufacturers try to go straight after Harley with bikes that are styled almost exactly like them. That hasn't really proven to be successful. I think Victory was doing well, and could've done even better if they would've kept progressing their bikes with technology updates, and such. But, they bought Indian, and as the good book says, a guy can't serve 2 masters very well. If they would've stayed the course with only the Victory line and made it even better each year, they probably would've been fine.

 

What Yamaha has done is tapped into that Victory vein in a huge way. And, there isn't a person on earth that doesn't understand that Yamaha has a phenomenal reputation for quality to go with it.

 

I think Harley is what it is because they have invented a culture that is intoxicating for a ton of riders. Riding a Harley is an experience that no other bike mfg on earth offers when it comes to the total package of bike, dealer network, gear, social network, etc. I think Polaris has decided to create that with the Indian line, and we'll see what happens.

 

Who knows. The new Venture might sit for long periods of time in the showrooms. If it does, its gonna be a heck of a bike to buy on the cheap.

[baylensman]

You hit it on the head old bean! Why spend Harley money on a Yamaha when you can buy a Harley, just in terms of resale value its a better bet.

Try and find a Yamaha coffee mug or boots anywhere other than at a Stealer ship!

Harley countered the Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha v-twins right along by getting bigger and bigger motors and upgrading infotainment systems and LED head lights While we were collectively holding our manhoods, while arguing for CD players and Fuel injection on our bikes. Then they did the same to Victory by coming out with models to meet that niche. I'd be willing to bet that a rebirth of the WWII Harley front line dispatch bike is already under development to counter the Scout from Indian, and perhaps a few other retro themed models.

 

Honda stayed with their basic bike and refined it. They know their core market and will keep and maybe pick up some of us that won't go with the HD brand. The rest of the field has lost sight and are lusting after Harleys market share by imitating instead of fragmenting. Yamaha won't pull guys of HD bikes neither will Kawasaki or Suzuki! They need to appeal to their core (Us guys) and bring in the maybes and want to be's by being different.

 

I honestly believe if Yamaha dropped some variant of the VMAX with a 6 speed slipper clutch into a dressed frame bike with decent electronics a lot of us would finally make the move off of our 10 to 20 year old bikes, and a lot of the others who settled for the Kaw or Suz Vtwins would jump also.

 

Heck I'd even settle for a flat plain crank in line 4 at this point. Don't get me wrong if I was forced to get a new bike I'd get the a Yamaha but maybe and FJ instead of the Venture not an HD or other brand.

[Du-Rron]

Puc

Makes me wonder how Voyager sales have been going. I have not seen any news of them slam dunking Harley. But perhaps their sales are off the charts and exceeding everything they had hoped for. That would certainly be a good reason to emulate their success. Perhaps Yamaha could steal some Kawasaki sales.

 

Mike

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?130047-2018-Star-Venture&p=1012757#post1012757

[Du-Rron]

Thanks Puc. Good read.

 

I must say, the Kawi story and Yammy story kind of look the same on the surface, but actually, there is quite a difference.

Big Lenny

 

And one of the big differences is $10,000.00 right off the bat.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?130047-2018-Star-Venture&p=1012757#post1012757

[baylensman]

And one of the big differences is $10,000.00 right off the bat.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?130047-2018-Star-Venture&p=1012757#post1012757

 

 

Look at engine size YAMAHA

6 Speed YAMAHA

Built in reverse YAMAHA

Full Infotainment with phone integration std YAMAHA

Slipper Clutch YAMAHA

Traction Control YAMAHA

5 Year warranty YAMAHA

LED lighting YAMAHA

Smart key YAMAHA

Adjustable ergonomics YAMAHA

 

 

is all that worth $10K If I was buying maybe?

 

But for the general public, they look past all that at price price price. Plus the motoring public isn't really buying price anymore they're buying a monthly payment! Some of the biggest car dealers advertise LOW MONTHY PAYMENT and don't mention the ballon at the end of the loan. HUGE deals right! new KIA for $119 a month for 48 months and balance due at loan end YIKES! If YAMAHA or other had a reasonable sized true motorcycle that they marketed at $99.00 a month that a millennial could hooks his phone to, they'd be the biggest MFG in the world inside of 6 months.

[videoarizona]

I think this comparison with HD is silly. I read it all over the web. Think about it. Up until a few years ago...HD had no quality control, no power, no good ride, no reliability not much of anything really when you think about it. Well I'll give them a great radio system...ok...I'll give them that on the Ultra.

 

And no one has been able to overcome the "IMAGE". Yamaha and Honda are superior in build quality, durability...blah, blah, blah. BUT, they don't have the "IMAGE"....and no one else has been able to overcome it either.

 

Thankfully, BMW has never bothered to try.

 

And that gives me some hope for the Star Venture. I hope the buyers will look at that bike, not for it's image, rather, for it's engineering sophistication, durability, ride comfort, weather protection and handling. Those are the kind of buyers Yamaha wants. Those who adore the HD "IMAGE" will not even consider any other brand. That kind of brand loyalty was earned by HD, the hard way. And they are working their butts off to keep that loyalty in their back pocket. The one that holds the wallet...

 

For me, if I was in the market for a nice shiny new scoot. I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Star Venture. From everything I've read, it's comfortable, smooth, easy to handle and a true touring master. But I would be buying it not for it's image, rather for it's engineering. Yamaha has sold me over the years on it's build quality. That's what's important to me.

 

Would have been nice to have that venerable V4 stuffed in there with water cooling. But that's history now. A solid V twin that is quiet and smooth and gives me good mpg's with proven reliability....now that's a modern day scoot!

 

Where's my check book. Oh wait...I own 2 bikes already and they are just getting broken in! Ugh...guess no new scoots for me for a while! Grins!

 

OH...while I've got your attention...2 things:

 

1: No riding around here for a few days.....rain for past 2 days and now a cold front coming through. 25 degrees forecast for Thursday/Friday morning...yikes!

Who let the warm air out???

 

2: Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to one and all....wherever you may be in this world of ours! It's a pleasure yakking with you all!

 

[Du-Rron]

If YAMAHA or other had a reasonable sized true motorcycle that they marketed at $99.00 a month that a millennial could hooks his phone to, they'd be the biggest MFG in the world inside of 6 months.

 

You are absolutely correct.

 

 

By the way, the Yamaha only has a one year real warranty, the rest is a service contract that does not have to abide by the moss magnuson warranty act.

[BlueSky]

Yeah, Yamaha did a great engineering job on the new Venture with the exception of the engine. An air cooled V-twin in an expensive 963 lb. tourer is not great engineering. It may be great marketing. Time will tell. Lots of riders don't mind but I would never buy one for that reason. Yeah, I have an air cooled 85 Kawasaki but I only paid $1200 for it in 2009 when it had 1,054 miles on it. And I'm acutely aware of the overheating possibility while sitting at stoplights in the summer. I usually shut it down and restart when the light changes. I wouldn't want to have to do that with a $27,000 tourer.

[cowpuc]

OH...while I've got your attention...2 things:

 

1: No riding around here for a few days.....rain for past 2 days and now a cold front coming through. 25 degrees forecast for Thursday/Friday morning...yikes!

Who let the warm air out???

 

2: Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to one and all....wherever you may be in this world of ours! It's a pleasure yakking with you all!

 

 

1: 100% saddlebum and Flyinfool 's doings Vaz = 100%!!!

2: and a VERY VERY Merry Christmas and the Happiest of Happy New Years right back at cha down there brother!! It is ALWAYS a pleasure yakking with you too Vaz, even if we differ in our opinion about the engineering sophistication involved in producing air cooled, push rod, belt drive motors ... IMHO,, those differences actually add to the pleasure and fun!!

P.S. = speaking air cooled scoots.. If you EVER get a chance to demo one of the new 2018 HD Fat Bob's with the M8/114inch motor - DO IT!! It's the one with the scrambler like pipes on it and the little rectangular headlight!

[Flyinfool]

1: 100% saddlebum and Flyinfool 's doings Vaz = 100%!!!

2: and a VERY VERY Merry Christmas and the Happiest of Happy New Years right back at cha down there brother!! It is ALWAYS a pleasure yakking with you too Vaz, even if we differ in our opinion about the engineering sophistication involved in producing air cooled, push rod, belt drive motors ... IMHO,, those differences actually add to the pleasure and fun!!

P.S. = speaking air cooled scoots.. If you EVER get a chance to demo one of the new 2018 HD Fat Bob's with the M8/114inch motor - DO IT!! It's the one with the scrambler like pipes on it and the little rectangular headlight!

 

1; I have been pretty nice so far this year, like you I do have some character flaws, one of which is that if I get accused of some thing and have to take the heat for it, and it sounds like it might have been fun, I sure am gonna make sure that I am guilty since I am getting the abuse anyhow. Might as well earn it.

[saddlebum]

1: 100% saddlebum and Flyinfool 's doings Vaz = 100%!!!

Don't Blame me for this one. People up here wanted a white Christmas for a change so I have kept the back door closed.

[Flyinfool]

Don't Blame me for this one. People up here wanted a white Christmas for a change so I have kept the back door closed.

 

Are you sure that you know the difference between open and closed???

We did not even make it up to 0°F today.....

 

Do I need to make another trip up there to show you what CLOSED means??????

[saddlebum]

Are you sure that you know the difference between open and closed???

We did not even make it up to 0°F today.....

 

Do I need to make another trip up there to show you what CLOSED means??????

Well Flyinfool, We have accumulated a total average of 16 inches of snow over the past couple weeks, which has given us the 1st white Christmas in the last few years. Had I left the door open we would have had another green Christmas instead of the beautiful white Christmas we are currently having. Plus @Marcarl is happier than he has been for a few seasons cause he just loves to play with them tractors and push snow around making snow mountains. Makes him feel like the kid he once was so many millenniums ago. On that note I rest my case.

[Flyinfool]

Well Flyinfool, We have accumulated a total average of 16 inches of snow over the past couple weeks, which has given us the 1st white Christmas in the last few years. Had I left the door open we would have had another green Christmas instead of the beautiful white Christmas we are currently having. Plus Marcarl is happier than he has been for a few seasons cause he just loves to play with them tractors and push snow around making snow mountains. Makes him feel like the kid he once was so many millenniums ago. On that note I rest my case.

 

I really hate to have to say this but your case is broken, the hinges are rusted solid and everything is wide open up there. It is plain that I am going to have to teach you the difference between open and closed, and then teach you which way is the correct way to have things at various times of the year. It is obvious that you seem to have forgotten.

[saddlebum]

I really hate to have to say this but your case is broken, the hinges are rusted solid and everything is wide open up there. It is plain that I am going to have to teach you the difference between open and closed, and then teach you which way is the correct way to have things at various times of the year. It is obvious that you seem to have forgotten.

Ok I admit that the hinges may be a bit rusty, and the weather stripping may leak a little but the door was definitely closed. Lets face it your not getting half the supply I was sending you in previous years. Thats not to say I won't throgh the door wide open come Feb or March.

Depends on when people up here have had enough.

[XV1100SE]

In October Envoronment Canada gave us the long range Winter forecast - "warmer than normal". Guess what...today was -18C and for the next week at least we have a "polar vortex". Early in December they said that the Great Lakes won't freeze up this year so we'll get lots of lake effect snow.