Yamaha fires back on why they didn't use the vmax v4 engine

[RandyR]

[cowpuc]

I am sitting here waiting on You Tube to finishing processing more of my testing of the new one.. It seems to me that something Star forgot on this new one is the smile factor that comes with riding a motorcycle that comes alive as the R's increase.. If your on a scoot and you wick on it a little,,, even if your an old geezer like me,, ya cant help but smile as you feel the thing get up and boogie.. THAT is something I have ALWAYS appreciated about my 1st Gens - they still have some of that 1st Gen V-Max (ya'll remember those dont cha?) sazzyness left in even though they got dehorned... Dont get what I am saying? Ok,, I will try this angle,, I have owned MANY V-Twins including a LOT of HD's.. I hang out with a LOT of HD riders to this day.. If what I am saying is not important, then why are all the HD riders around here constantly bugging me to help them to get their big twins to have more umphh? Why does it urk them that a beat up ol V-4 Yamaha can run circles around their bike in ANY situation = 1 up, 2 up, what ever? Its because EVERYONE loves to be able to twist the throttle and feel that motor come alive - the more it comes alive = the bigger the grin on the other side,, its that easy!! If what I am saying wasnt real, HD wouldnt have a HUGE Screamin Eagle Performance catalog and a HUGE following of that stream.. Consider that when you consider this,,,,, the new Star Venture has the performance similar to an 88 inch HD IMHO,,, rode em both and thats the way I am calling it till I see different on actual dyno sheets.. Thinking 70 horsish..

Another point,, the guy in the vid mentions going V-Twin because of narrowness... After riding them both,, I would like to see actual measurements across the tanks... Going by memory only here and maybe I am wrong but I gotta say - I honestly believe that my 1st Gen Venture is considerably narrower on the legs then this new one.. Also,, as far as keeping the weight low,, this guy seems to have forgotten about the Yamaha Venture (not the 2nd Star Venture)carrying its fuel under the saddle - the Vmax the same..

Fact is,,, if some of those folks who worked for Yamaha followed them over to Star - there is no way they can convince me that they couldnt have produced a real shaft drive fixed fairing cross country touring bike using a detuned 1700 Vmax motor with a turbo to push the torque wayyyy out of site if thats what the Star Rider Venture riders wanted and ended up with a Touring bike that would have made even the most ardent R1 Sport Bike rider grin from ear to ear.. Ya gotta remember something here folks,, IMHO,,, just because ya got it does not mean ya use it all the time - but it sure is nice to have it when ya want it!!

 

The words I said at the unveiling still stand - ohhhh poop!

Puc

[BlueSky]

They talk about the cams and carbs up top causing the engine to be taller on the Vmax. True, but the stroke of the V4 is much less reducing that height too. If they tuned the Vmax engine for more low end and made it in a dry sump model it would sit low too. Lots of excuses for making a cheaper engine and blaming the reason on technology. I can understand the Vtwin design selection much better than I can understand the air cooled decision. I think the reason they went with air cooling is because it "looks" better. When it comes to motorcycles, I suppose Harley has proved that looks and sound mean more than engineering.

[snyper316]

I am sitting here waiting on You Tube to finishing processing more of my testing of the new one.. It seems to me that something Star forgot on this new one is the smile factor that comes with riding a motorcycle that comes alive as the R's increase.. If your on a scoot and you wick on it a little,,, even if your an old geezer like me,, ya cant help but smile as you feel the thing get up and boogie.. THAT is something I have ALWAYS appreciated about my 1st Gens - they still have some of that 1st Gen V-Max (ya'll remember those dont cha?) sazzyness left in even though they got dehorned... Dont get what I am saying? Ok,, I will try this angle,, I have owned MANY V-Twins including a LOT of HD's.. I hang out with a LOT of HD riders to this day.. If what I am saying is not important, then why are all the HD riders around here constantly bugging me to help them to get their big twins to have more umphh? Why does it urk them that a beat up ol V-4 Yamaha can run circles around their bike in ANY situation = 1 up, 2 up, what ever? Its because EVERYONE loves to be able to twist the throttle and feel that motor come alive - the more it comes alive = the bigger the grin on the other side,, its that easy!! If what I am saying wasnt real, HD wouldnt have a HUGE Screamin Eagle Performance catalog and a HUGE following of that stream.. Consider that when you consider this,,,,, the new Star Venture has the performance similar to an 88 inch HD IMHO,,, rode em both and thats the way I am calling it till I see different on actual dyno sheets.. Thinking 70 horsish..

Another point,, the guy in the vid mentions going V-Twin because of narrowness... After riding them both,, I would like to see actual measurements across the tanks... Going by memory only here and maybe I am wrong but I gotta say - I honestly believe that my 1st Gen Venture is considerably narrower on the legs then this new one.. Also,, as far as keeping the weight low,, this guy seems to have forgotten about the Yamaha Venture (not the 2nd Star Venture)carrying its fuel under the saddle - the Vmax the same..

Fact is,,, if some of those folks who worked for Yamaha followed them over to Star - there is no way they can convince me that they couldnt have produced a real shaft drive fixed fairing cross country touring bike using a detuned 1700 Vmax motor with a turbo to push the torque wayyyy out of site if thats what the Star Rider Venture riders wanted and ended up with a Touring bike that would have made even the most ardent R1 Sport Bike rider grin from ear to ear.. Ya gotta remember something here folks,, IMHO,,, just because ya got it does not mean ya use it all the time - but it sure is nice to have it when ya want it!!

 

The words I said at the unveiling still stand - ohhhh poop!

Puc

 

 

Ok question in 5 yrs when I can afford a used one can I get a used vmax and build the bike in this one or is it to Techy to even touch such a feet, Yes I am going to admit I love the look of the bike.... just dont like throttle by wire, which come to find out this morning I have been driving one for 2 yrs and the lag is a dangerous thing if you get into a bad perdicament. Which I guess would be another question could one switch back to cables on this?

[ddoggma]

Honestly there is no reason to by a "new" MC, Get a low mileage 1st gen for 2 grand and ur good to go. Got mine cheap, got her st8, been ten year s now i think. Never gonna need a another bike.

As far as mama yama saying bla bla bla. Vtwin.... I mean I would never be able to afford one, but can you imagine that VMAX 1700 in a touring package bike OMG. BMW, Guzzi, Triumph, Honda. would all poop their pants. I think its coming. They have to do it.

[Motorcycle Mike]

I don't care if it's a V-twin or a V-4. I have one of each in the garage right now and love them both.

The issue to me is that it is air cooled and belt driven. I decided back in the 80's when I bought a Honda Magna that any other bike I ever owned would be liquid cooled and shaft driven.

Looks like I'll be riding my RSV for some time to come.

[cowpuc]

Honestly there is no reason to by a "new" MC, Get a low mileage 1st gen for 2 grand and ur good to go. Got mine cheap, got her st8, been ten year s now i think. Never gonna need a another bike.

As far as mama yama saying bla bla bla. Vtwin.... I mean I would never be able to afford one, but can you imagine that VMAX 1700 in a touring package bike OMG. BMW, Guzzi, Triumph, Honda. would all poop their pants. I think its coming. They have to do it.

 

:scared:,, oh heck yea I can imagine it = TOTALLY!!! As a matter of fact - it would, without a douby, literally TURN THE TOURING INDUSTRY UPSIDE DOWN (IMHO) --- ohhh,,, wait a second,,, thats what Mom Yam said they were gonna do at the unveiling of this one,, I remember now,,, its the very reason we went out to the unveiling = I KNEW they were gonna pull the covers back on the new Venture and it was gonna be EXACTLY what you just described ...

 

Nope,, waits over Dog (at least 4 me),, aint gonna happen (IMHO),, those folks at Star Motorcycles done got caught up on the HUGE market that Harley owns and thats the only road they see IMHO.. The market that Honda owns with its Wing is just to blasted small,, fact is,, there are so few actual touring riders left (I think we are aging out and I also think the younger generation are doing their touring - hunting - fishing - racing cars - racing motocross - playing golf - going swimming -scuba diving - paddling canoes or what have you ON VIDEO GAMES in the cyber world and they aint ever coming back = wayyy cheaper, no speeding tickets, you can shoot someone and it dont hurt em and on and on...

Edited August 18, 2017 by cowpuc

[cowpuc]

Ok question in 5 yrs when I can afford a used one can I get a used vmax and build the bike in this one or is it to Techy to even touch such a feet, Yes I am going to admit I love the look of the bike.... just dont like throttle by wire, which come to find out this morning I have been driving one for 2 yrs and the lag is a dangerous thing if you get into a bad perdicament. Which I guess would be another question could one switch back to cables on this?

 

Anything is possible but the undertaking would be MASSIVE... Also,, concerning dropping the fly by wire and going back to cables.. They are completely different in every detail - it would me replacing the complete fuel system with either a throttle body or carb.. And then you would have to over come the brains of the complete outfit with some from of less intelligent ignition tuner.. Snype, these things have gotten so smart that you cant even remove one part of a bike and replace with the same part from another bike.. The devices actually know what bike they are suppose to be on and will not work without reprogramming.. Suckers are wayyy more intelligent than a guy like me will ever be - I cant even remember where I left my shoes half the time..:big-grin-emoticon:

 

I do suppose though,, if folks like FLyinFool, Bongobob, YamaGrl, MarCarl and the like are still around when you decide to undertake such a project,, you may be able to do so with their help BUT --- dont come to me,, I KNOW NOTHING,,,, NOTHING:detective:

[snyper316]

Anything is possible but the undertaking would be MASSIVE... Also,, concerning dropping the fly by wire and going back to cables.. They are completely different in every detail - it would me replacing the complete fuel system with either a throttle body or carb.. And then you would have to over come the brains of the complete outfit with some from of less intelligent ignition tuner.. Snype, these things have gotten so smart that you cant even remove one part of a bike and replace with the same part from another bike.. The devices actually know what bike they are suppose to be on and will not work without reprogramming.. Suckers are wayyy more intelligent than a guy like me will ever be - I cant even remember where I left my shoes half the time..:big-grin-emoticon:

 

I do suppose though,, if folks like FLyinFool, Bongobob, YamaGrl, MarCarl and the like are still around when you decide to undertake such a project,, you may be able to do so with their help BUT --- dont come to me,, I KNOW NOTHING,,,, NOTHING:detective:

 

Think i will just chicken wire the plastics to a first Gen

[N3FOL]

 

Well, I am starting to be very curious about this new touring bike. In the next few months, I am hoping to get a closer look on the bike at our local Yamaha dealer. Some really don't want the belt driven bike, but I personally don't have any problems with it. Enjoyed watching the video.

[Du-Rron]

I wouldn't exactly say that "Yamaha Fires Back On Why They Didn't Use The V4", more like begrudgingly defending their new V2 against the V4. They are trying to sell their new product and I can live with that. The Yamaha guy makes some very thin line reasons why they didn't use a V4... Surely nothing techno Yamaha couldn't have overcome hmmmm....

 

The Yamaha guys that are responsible for the new product launch of the new Venture are probably tired of hearing that Yamaha actually made a V4. A pretty darn good one too.

[snyper316]

[videoarizona]

Well, I am starting to be very curious about this new touring bike. In the next few months, I am hoping to get a closer look on the bike at our local Yamaha dealer. Some really don't want the belt driven bike, but I personally don't have any problems with it. Enjoyed watching the video.

 

I find changing the rear tire is easier on a belt drive than a shaft drive.

[Karaboo]

I would find changing the rear tire (assuming you can find one i the right size) hard without a center stand.

[MikeWa]

Sounds like a bunch of BS to me. Of course they wouldn't publish an interview with someone who didn't like the bike. So it makes me wonder if this guy is a dealer employee or something. My feeling is if you have to create excuses for something you did perhaps things needed to be thought out a little better.

 

That's my opinion and I am sticking to it.

Mike

[Sailor]

I think the main problem is that Yamaha looked at Harley sales and figured that is what North Americans want. They built a bloated Harley instead of a Venture thinking they could sell it to Harley riders. They ignored the fact that Harley riders only buy Harleys and Venture riders want Ventures, not Harleys. They built a nice bike that nobody wants. It is a nice bike except for the power train and being overweight

[CaseyJ955]

I dig belts, they have come a long ways in the last few years. Shafts are great but they do not relay the power to the ground the way belts and chains do, they have lash and lots of weight. Belts address all that and guarded right they should be reliable and long lasting.

 

I believe Puc hit this on the head with his iteration of the thrill of the revs. Their failure to use the V4 is not something they can explain IMHO, they wouldnt be having to tackle this had they just told us early on it would be an air cooled twin, guys like me were pretty sure this would be a performance tourer. Im not sure Yamaha has the marketing chops to pull this one off. IMHO secrecy and hype was the wrong marketing tactic for this (or any) bike.

[ddoggma]

No doubt the v4 cost more to make....thats the bottom line.

[CaseyJ955]

I think the main problem is that Yamaha looked at Harley sales and figured that is what North Americans want. They built a bloated Harley instead of a Venture thinking they could sell it to Harley riders. They ignored the fact that Harley riders only buy Harleys and Venture riders want Ventures, not Harleys. They built a nice bike that nobody wants. It is a nice bike except for the power train and being overweight

 

Bloated is the word that was in my head for both price and weight. I suspect that this bike will have a cult following based on rarity more than merit. We are sitting in a real estate and economic bubble that is due to pop this year, maybe next (speculation) and when it happens $30k bikes arent going to be flying off showroom floors. Conditions are favorable for HD to nosedive, at least Yamaha has other quality models available where HD is pretty much a one trick pony. My guess is by 2019/2020 you will be able to get gently used Ventures for a fraction of MSRP. There are going to be a whole lot more air cooled twins out there than buyers willing to pay the premium price of admission (more speculation) in the interesting times ahead. CL trends would suggest this is already happening, look at all the new-ish HDs sitting there week after week cheaper than ever.

 

Used Vstroms, GSs and KLRs will sell like hotcakes and the bulky old tech overpriced cruisers are going to back up showrooms like a bowel obstruction. Pretty dark huh?

[Mike G in SC]

I'm curious how many have rode this bike yet? I did, twice a gray one and a red one. Couldn't tell the difference.

 

I've had a Road Star, Stratoliner, RSTD and a RSV, and put probably 250K miles on them. (like most of us)

Yeah, these were 15-20 minute demo rides but we did get up to speed (75, 6th) and we had some good twists on the ride.

I really did enjoy the ride, I enjoyed the power it had, I enjoyed the control. I'm 5'8" and it fit fine without lowering.

Had too many gadgets to fool with in that short time, just wanted to enjoy the ride. The ride by wire would take some getting use to, not minutes.

 

I would say this had the power and handling of my Strat but the comfort of the Venture.

Ambient temp was perhaps 85 degrees and we did not sit in traffic, so I can't say how the heat would be when you get stuck in the heat. But I did not get noticeable heat of the motor.

One guy complained but then found out he had the seat heater on. Yep.

 

Will I buy one, not me, I got my two up GW trike, and this is too much bike and cost for my solo ride. (Actually, I'm buying another RSTD for that.)

But, if I dropped back 10 years, pre retirement,, probably would.

 

As for the rider in the new video, that is a friend, Vince Greva.

He is a primary in STAR Touring, a very likeable and honest guy. But, of course STAR folks are hoping this bike is a hit. As most of us should too. (I'm both)

Oh, and he is a retired California motor cop who teaches and develops motorcycle courses for training CHP's motor cops. So, a very qualified rider.

 

So, please catch a demo event and ride the bike,,, let us know what you think then too, especially then. I don't think I heard many discouraging words in Redwing.

I'll try to attach the demo list but if you got the video, you probably got the list.

I'm going to try to get to Cherokee, NC and ride it again.

 

Mike G in SC

Edited August 19, 2017 by Mike G in SC

[Mike G in SC]

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[TD]New Venture demos. Go ride one!

 

 

 

 

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

Roseville Yamaha

2014 Taylor Road, Roseville, CA 95678

Ph: 916-784-2444

Fri, August 18, 2017 - Sat, August, 19, 2017

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

Freedom Powersports - Hurst

633 NE Loop 820, Hurst, TX 76053

Ph: 817-285-9999

Fri, August 18, 2017 - Sat, August, 19, 2017

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

Maxim Yamaha

420 Central Expy S., Allen, TX 75013

Ph: 972-359-0202

Fri, August 25, 2017 - Sat, August 26, 2017

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

Skagit Powersports

1645 Walton Drive, Burlington, WA 98233

Ph: 230-757-7999

Fri, August 25, 2017 - Sat, August 26, 2017

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

South Valley Motorsports

11553 S. State Street, Draper, UT 84020

Ph: 801-576-1899

Fri, August 25, 2017 - Sat, August 26, 2017

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

Pony Powersports

5370 Westerville Rd, Westerville, OH 43081

Ph: 614-212-7888

Fri, Sept. 01, 2017 - Sat, Sept. 02, 2017

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

Yamaha Knoxville

5820 Clinton Hwy, Knoxville, TN 37912

Ph: 865-688-8484

Fri, Sept. 01, 2017 - Sat, Sept. 02, 2017

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

MOM South

1000 Washington St, Foxborough, MA 02035

Ph: 508-543-1734

Fri, Sept. 08, 2017 - Sat, Sept. 09, 2017

 

Cherokee Blue Ridge Run

Cherokee Indian Fairgrounds

545 Tsali Blvd

Cherokee, NC 28719

Fri, Sept. 08, 2017 - Sun, Sept. 10, 2017

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

Sloan's Motorcycle

2233 NW Broad St, Murfreesboro, TN 37129

Ph: 615-893-0150

Fri, Sept. 15, 2017 - Sat, Sept. 16, 2017

 

Central Florida Powersports

2575 N. Orange Blossom Trial, Kissimmee, FL 34744

Ph: 407-847-2453

Fri, Sept. 22, 2017 - Sat, Sept. 23, 2017

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[TD]AIMExpo

Greater Columbus Convention Center

400 N High St, Columbus, OH 43215

Ph: 949-517-7501

Sat, Sept. 23, 2017 - Sun, Sept. 24, 2017

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

Friendly Yamaha

10939 Airline Hwy, Baton Rouge, LA 70816

Ph: 225-292-6242

Fri, Sept. 29, 2017 - Sat, Sept. 30, 2017

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

Motorcycle Mall

655 Washington Ave, Belleville, NJ 07109

Ph: 973-751-4545

Fri, Sept. 29, 2017 - Sat, Sept. 30, 2017

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

We Ride Powersports Mesa

1350 S. Clearview Ave, Mesa, AZ 85209

Ph: 602-509-9468

Fri, Oct. 06, 2017 - Sat, Oct. 07, 2017

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

Big St. Charles

3830 W. Clay Street, Charles, MO 63301

Ph: 636-946-6487

Fri, Oct. 06, 2017 - Sat, Oct. 07, 2017

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

Velocity Powersports

151 Gateway Drive, Ladson, SC 29456

Ph: 843-871-5371

Fri, Oct. 06, 2017 - Sat, Oct. 07, 2017

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

Barney's of Brandon

9820 E. Adamo Drive, Tampa, FL 33619

Ph: 813-628-9418

Fri, Oct. 13, 2017 - Sat, Oct. 14, 2017

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

Niehaus Cycles Sales

718 North Old Route 66, Litchfield, IL 62056

Ph: 217-324-6565

Fri, Oct. 13, 2017 - Sat, Oct. 14, 2017

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

Ridenow Boulder

6350 Boulder Hwy, Las Vegas, NV 89122

Ph: 855-971-3561

Fri, Oct. 13, 2017 - Sat, Oct. 14, 2017

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

Temecula Powersports

26860 Jefferson Ave, Murrieta, CA 92562

Ph: 951-698-4123

Fri, Oct. 20, 2017 - Sat, Oct. 21, 2017

 

Motorcycle Dealer Demo

Langston Motorsports

1622 Illinois Ave Ste 1, Perris, CA 92571

Ph: 951-471-8205

Sat, Oct. 28, 2017 - Sun, Oct. 29, 2017

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[CaseyJ955]

Im far from all those places but im going to ride one when the local Yammy dealer gets one in. I expect it to be a nice ride, Im particularly interested in heat management and performance at speed. I hope its still hot out when they get one in but its not looking too promising. On paper it doesnt look very exciting but I will ride with an open mind. Im glad its not my job to explain why this bike has an air cooled V twin and not the V4 that Yamaha must have known we thought we were getting.

[camos]

Their failure to use the V4 is not something they can explain IMHO, they wouldnt be having to tackle this had they just told us early on it would be an air cooled twin, guys like me were pretty sure this would be a performance tourer. Im not sure Yamaha has the marketing chops to pull this one off. IMHO secrecy and hype was the wrong marketing tactic for this (or any) bike.

Yamaha would not have to be tackling this if they had not made the idiotic decision to call the Yamaharley a Venture. It's not and never will be a Venture but it is a pretty nice bike on its own merit. Venture riders would have been disappointed that Yamaha came out with a new touring bike and did not produce a 3rd Gen but we would likely get over it........eventually.

[BlueSky]

I would like it better if they had installed a temperature controlled fan on the oil cooler. That would give it some hope of not overheating the oil when stuck in traffic on a hot day.

[CaseyJ955]

Yamaha would not have to be tackling this if they had not made the idiotic decision to call the Yamaharley a Venture. It's not and never will be a Venture but it is a pretty nice bike on its own merit. Venture riders would have been disappointed that Yamaha came out with a new touring bike and did not produce a 3rd Gen but we would likely get over it........eventually.

 

Agree 100%. The biggest problem was in the marketing and badge, this would be easier to accept had we even known it was not going to use the V4. Just that tiny tidbit of info, IMHO, would have diffused almos all the vitriol some of us feel since we waited so long for a Venture. Dangling a big carrot in front of us Venture lovers for months and then unveiling an improved Harley was almost like bait-n-switch. Im an adult and paying customer and I dont need the element of surprise like a 5 yr old on xmas morning. I thought I was getting a giant tub of Legos and I got a board game, socks and a sweater. Im over it but to show Yamaha my appreciation for how this went down Im going to buy a new Triumph Trophy when my current Venture gets too long in the tooth.