Hot Start Problems with First Gen VR

[Shadetree]

A mechanic is renovating my 89 VR, with 206 miles on it. In the first generation VR, at what point (in mileage) does the hot start problem begin? At what point (in mileage) is the four brush starter and heavy gauge starter wires needed? Will the higher out put stator help with hot starts? Would it be prudent to make upgrades at this point instead of waiting until hot start problems begin?

[MiCarl]

The problem is the starter not having quite enough torque when good and hot. To my knowledge it's not mileage related. My 89 was like that when I got it with 80K miles. Deficiencies in the cables, connections or battery can make the problem worse.

 

The starter is on the front of the engine, behind the exhaust and cooling system. When you park the motorcycle air quits moving over the starter and it soaks up heat from the engine/pipes/cooling system. If you aren't stopped long enough for the starter to cool back down (1/2 hour or so I think) it won't have enough torque to really crank the engine.

 

If I recall correctly my major issue was fuel stops. I'd sometimes have to push the motorcycle away from the pump and wait 10 minutes or so until the starter would turn it over.

 

Personally, If I had the cooling system open (the crossover pipe needs to come out to get at the starter) I'd do the upgrade.

 

Higher output stator won't make any difference.

Edited August 10, 2017 by MiCarl

[Freebird]

I agree that it is not mileage related. Just do it and get it over with. At least the heavy duty cables. I had an '88 Venture Royale with under 40,000 miles on it that had the issue.

[bongobobny]

At what point (in mileage) is the four brush starter and heavy gauge starter wires needed??

The day it was built...

[Flyinfool]

There are 2 or 3 upgrades to the hot start problem.

 

1. Upgrade the stock wimpy cables to at least 4 AWG welding cable so that they can carry more amps to the starter. Also clean all of the connections from the battery to the starter on both the positive AND negative sides so that all the amps can get thru.

 

2. Upgrade to the 4 brush starter, or do the ground wire update to your 2 brush starter.

 

maybe 3. Some people feel that the AGM batteries will spin the starter faster. I did not have that experience and found the AGM to have a short lifespan.

 

Any one of these upgrades will make a noticeable improvement in hot starts. Of course doing all of them is best. I did the cables and the ground wire mod to my 2 brush starter and have not had any hot starting issues since. I still have a good old flooded Yuasa battery.

 

As mentioned the stator has no bearing on starting, its only job is to supply electrical power after the engine is already running. Not all bikes have a hot start issue. I would wait and see if you have an issue. If you are in deep enough to do the wires I would do that first since that is the least expensive upgrade. My bike starts just fine as is so I will not get a 4 brush starter until this one manages to die, I do not expect it to die for MANY years to come.

[suds]

My issue was cleared up with a fresh battery to replace my very old, tired one. I've not had issues since. The battery was due to be replaced, probably should have been done by the previous owner.

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[Shadetree]

Thanks for all the information and advice

[Flyinfool]

A mechanic is renovating my 89 VR, with 206 miles on it. In the first generation VR, at what point (in mileage) does the hot start problem begin? At what point (in mileage) is the four brush starter and heavy gauge starter wires needed? Will the higher out put stator help with hot starts? Would it be prudent to make upgrades at this point instead of waiting until hot start problems begin?

 

Wait, you can not get off the hook that easy! You got an 1989 Venture with only 206 miles on it? We need pics of this gem.

[Yammer Dan]

I did get away with the AGM battery being a cure once. Its still going. If you are going thru it just keep a good strong battery and see what happens.

[zagger]

Wait, you can not get off the hook that easy! You got an 1989 Venture with only 206 miles on it? We need pics of this gem.

 

Really! Was it previously owned by a senior home or what?

zag

[Shadetree]

Wait, you can not get off the hook that easy! You got an 1989 Venture with only 206 miles on it? We need pics of this gem.

 

I will have to purchase a camera. MC is currently in the mechanics garage, hopefully to be fully renovated. I moved it there yesterday. Garage Owner/Mechanic expressed some reservations about whether he will have to disassemble the MC to replace the fuel tank (MC has been sitting up for about thirty years). I will find out on Monday whether or not he will carry through. I once considered doing the renovation myself but common sense prevailed.

[camos]

Really! Was it previously owned by a senior home or what?

zag

Stolen from Jay Leno.

[videoarizona]

My take on the 2 brush starter. No one has mentioned this little tip. Keep the cables connections clean and you won't have much of a problem. Every once in a while, my starter will struggle for a second then start the motor. Otherwise, it starts just fine. Even on a hot day after fuel, she might hesitate, but always has started.

 

As far as the gas tank...... You should be able to take the seat off and take off the sending unit. Then clean the tank from there. Can probably get it pretty clean. Granted, you can't take it and shake it... But I would "venture" a guess most of the crud will be in bottom of the tank...under the sending unit area.

[cowpuc]

My take on the 2 brush starter. No one has mentioned this little tip. Keep the cables connections clean and you won't have much of a problem. Every once in a while, my starter will struggle for a second then start the motor. Otherwise, it starts just fine. Even on a hot day after fuel, she might hesitate, but always has started.

 

As far as the gas tank...... You should be able to take the seat off and take off the sending unit. Then clean the tank from there. Can probably get it pretty clean. Granted, you can't take it and shake it... But I would "venture" a guess most of the crud will be in bottom of the tank...under the sending unit area.

 

Another little something I discovered a long time ago,,, if ya pull the starter down and clean the brush dust and other particles off the armature (just clean the internals real well) between all those little grooves and gaps the starter may go right back to being like new.. I am no electronics engineer but my theory is that any way for current to "leak" is a loss so I cleaned a problematic one once and WOW did it snap right back to top condition.. Also gotta be sure those end bearings are good BUT I have yet to wear a set out - always ended up being a dirty starter or bad connections when mine pulled hard.. Something else though,, a GOOD battery is a must!! Another theory that has held true for me is that a weak battery can actually fry a starter - I know,, makes no sense to some probably but low voltage on motor windings tend to heat things up... Dont fool around with weak batterys - keep a fresh one in the scoot..

[videoarizona]

Yep!! Forgot all about that!

My Bugeye Sprite had a generator I had to replace brushes and clean the crud from the armature once a year. It was actually fun to do... And kept that gen running fine. It was original and was working when I finally sold it in the early 90's. 1960 Sprite Mk1. Darn. Wish I still had that little car.

 

Thanks for the reminder, Puc..... Yes we can clean those starters, for sure!

[Flyinfool]

AND, if you are gonna open the starter up to clean it, do the ground wire mod while you are in there, it makes a big difference. Also do not forget to clean the mounting surfaces where the starter bolts to the block that is the ground path for the starter power and if it is dirty or corroded it can cause a weak starter.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?46806-First-Gen-Starter-Ground-Upgrade&highlight=starter+ground+wire

[nich0085]

My issue was cleared up with a fresh battery to replace my very old, tired one. I've not had issues since. The battery was due to be replaced, probably should have been done by the previous owner.

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

I put in a new AGM battery but I still have the a slight hot start issue. It never doesn't start but it turns over real slow once in a while. I think I'll have to do the thick cable upgrade on mine...

[bongobobny]

That and a starter motor from a 2nd gen!

[gaj1917]

Yes, get a 4-brush starter. Installed one on my '84 and the difference is huge, even without a cable upgrade. Lots of used 4-brush starters on eBay. One from any '91 to '13 Venture or VMax will be 4-brush and will fit a 1st gen.

[ricksbike]

I had a problem with my 92 last year,ended up being the battery,new battery ,no more problem,my bike has 121,000 on it,and we`ve had a very hot summer here in North Idaho,90-98 degrees and have had no problems.

[BlueSky]

I had a problem with my 92 last year,ended up being the battery,new battery ,no more problem,my bike has 121,000 on it,and we`ve had a very hot summer here in North Idaho,90-98 degrees and have had no problems.

 

The 92's got the 4 brush starter!

[ricksbike]

I already knew about the 4 brush deal,but it still wouldn`t turn with a crappy battery,also it still has the stock battery cables,I did clean up the contact point on the frame though.