Pray for the USA

[camos]

I've always thought that the second amendment was there to protect the people from a tyrannical government. The first thing tyrants do is confiscate the citizens guns.

I'm sure that was part of the reason but there is more. Historically during times of war citizens were conscripted and armed then afterwards they were disarmed. There was a great fear among the ruling classes, primarily the royalty, of armed insurrection from the populace in general. In those times there was no equality or human rights, most ordinary people were indentured servants, pretty much slaves. For that reason, more so the USA than Canada, the opening up of America was one of the most important events in the history of the world. The Founding Fathers crafted a brilliant constitution that would ensure the USA did not follow the traditional course of politics in Europe.

 

Most of the gun related murders in the USA seem to be occurring in the ghettos of the larger cities by gangs fighting for drug sale turf. Chicago, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Miami for example. The city leaders don't seem to care enough to stop it. Chicago has very strict gun laws and they are the murder captital of the USA. But if the gun laws aren't enforced, it doesn't matter. When I was working in Homestead FL, I was watching the local news one night when they interviewed a Miami policeman and if I remember correctly he said there were 58 gangs in Miami composed of people who came from south of our border. He said they were used to gang life where they came from and they brought it to Miami. I'm not sure what the answer is but until there is an answer, I'm carrying.

This situation is one of the most important reasons for keeping the 2nd Amendment alive and well, at least in my opinion. Despite the intent of the constitution the 1% in the USA who own 90% of the wealth have become the de facto "royalty" of our time. They are the primary beneficiaries of the current system which leaves the vast majority of the citizens with far less than they deserve. All the violence, drug addiction and general dissatisfaction can be blamed on the poverty and the lack of security that is caused by income inequality. Unfortunately the solution does get into the realm of politics so cannot be discussed here.

 

It is interesting, at least to me, the Swiss have a similar-ish gun culture to that of the USA which is quite uniquely different than in the rest of Europe. They have somewhere around 25 guns per 100 citizens while in the US the ratio is close to 100%. They also have military conscription, the Draft, which ensures that most citizens are trained in the use of firearms and while enrolled in the military they are required to keep their weapons at home. I'm not sure if this is continued after their tour of duty but they are avid hunters. There are also quite strong rules for gun control that do not result in the total disarming of the citizens.

 

The point of this little bit of information is that gun control can be sensibly applied and should not be feared as a loss of constitutional rights.

 

Here is a snippet about the Swiss militia concept from Wikipedia:

 

Under the country's militia system, professional soldiers constitute about 5 percent of the military and the rest are conscripts or volunteers aged 19 to 34 (in some cases up to 50). Because of Switzerland's long history of neutrality, the armed forces do not take part in conflicts in other countries, but it does participate in international peacekeeping missions. Switzerland is part of the NATO Partnership for Peace program.

 

 

The structure of the Swiss militia system stipulates that the soldiers keep their own personal equipment, including all personally assigned weapons, at home (until 2007 this also included ammunition[5]). Compulsory military service applies to all male Swiss citizens, with women serving voluntarily. Males usually receive initial orders at the age of 18 for military conscription eligibility screening. About two-thirds of young Swiss men are found suitable for service, while alternative service exists for those found unsuitable.[6] Annually, approximately 20,000 persons are trained in basic training for a duration from 18 to 21 weeks (increased from 15 weeks, in 2003).

[BlueSky]

Demography has a huge impact on the countries such as the USA. The Swiss don't have some of the problems other countries have due to demography.

[camos]

Demography has a huge impact on the countries such as the USA. The Swiss don't have some of the problems other countries have due to demography.

Perhaps they don't have many problems because of the approach they have taken. You are right, they are quite different and might not be a really good comparison. The fact that the Swiss don't go to war with anyone is probably a big factor in their success. Still, I think there are certain similarities that make the comparison relevant.

[BlueSky]

Perhaps they don't have many problems because of the approach they have taken. You are right, they are quite different and might not be a really good comparison. The fact that the Swiss don't go to war with anyone is probably a big factor in their success. Still, I think there are certain similarities that make the comparison relevant.

 

Switzerland is fortunate that they aren't large enough that they have been invaded. And they were sympathetic to Germany in WWII. Going to war as unfortunate as it is, is necessary sometimes to maintain proper world order. If the USA had not entered WWII, we would all be speaking German or Japanese if we were alive. I know Russia defeated the Germans on the east side of Europe but they got a lot of help from the USA to do it. The UK, about the only European country left was almost defeated when the USA entered the war. No country in the Pacific was able to stand up to the Japanese. So, war was very necessary for the USA in WWII. And today, if it wasn't for the USA military, Russia and China would take over the world. They might anyway.

[Davin]

In Australia we have had a couple of gun buy backs and a lot of tightening of our gun control laws. Instigated by a incident where more than 30 people were murdered by a lone gunman in Port Arthur, Tasmania. He used military style rifles.

I dont know off hand of anyone trying to shoot politicians in this country (not saying nobody wants to or hasn't thought about it). I do remember a guy ramming his car into parliament house a few years back.

With all the gun control and buy backs there are now more licenced shooters and more guns in Australia than before the Port Arthur massacre. What has changed is we are not allowed to have semi auto or full auto rifles. Hangun owners must belong to and attend sporting club shooting ranges. We have no concealed carry option with handguns. We have a 28 day waiting period while purchasing new firearms.

 

There is a low gun related murder rate here and I dont feel the need to carry a handgun for personal protection.

 

Crims and psychos can still get guns and gun crime still happens here but at a lower rate than the US. Laws may help but Crims and psychos have never cared much for laws. Our government has announced yet another amnesty allowing the law abiding citizens a chance to register or surrender unregistered firearms ( estimated to number around 250000 in this country). Of course no crims will be handing their guns in.

 

Gun control here is not a gun ban.

Law abiding citizens can still own guns and lots of them do. Like me.

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[cowpuc]

In Australia we have had a couple of gun buy backs and a lot of tightening of our gun control laws. Instigated by a incident where more than 30 people were murdered by a lone gunman in Port Arthur, Tasmania. He used military style rifles.

I dont know off hand of anyone trying to shoot politicians in this country (not saying nobody wants to or hasn't thought about it). I do remember a guy ramming his car into parliament house a few years back.

With all the gun control and buy backs there are now more licenced shooters and more guns in Australia than before the Port Arthur massacre. What has changed is we are not allowed to have semi auto or full auto rifles. Hangun owners must belong to and attend sporting club shooting ranges. We have no concealed carry option with handguns. We have a 28 day waiting period while purchasing new firearms.

 

There is a low gun related murder rate here and I dont feel the need to carry a handgun for personal protection.

 

Crims and psychos can still get guns and gun crime still happens here but at a lower rate than the US. Laws may help but Crims and psychos have never cared much for laws. Our government has announced yet another amnesty allowing the law abiding citizens a chance to register or surrender unregistered firearms ( estimated to number around 250000 in this country). Of course no crims will be handing their guns in.

 

Gun control here is not a gun ban.

Law abiding citizens can still own guns and lots of them do. Like me.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170618/721444e275e4a6a20508552d9b104bee.jpg

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

Very informative post Davin = thanks!! Looking at your gun collection = NICE - gotta ask,, what is that rifle in the forefront of your safe? The black one with the multi round magazine sticking out of it? Looks like maybe a 7.62x39 or maybe .223 rifle,, maybe even larger = .308 NATO? Cant see the action on it but that sweetheart sure looks Semi Auto to me? IMHO - Making it illegal to own a semi auto or full auto is a partial ban,, to some folks here it may also be considered a ban...

Speaking of mass murder,, a few years ago in the State of Wisconsin very near a small town of Fon Du Lac a young man driving a car decided to go bowling for bikers. A large group of riders from my home state - Michigan (included a few buddies of mine that I knew real well) - were on their annual ride around Lake Michigan when they met their demise at the hands of this mass murderer.. He took the whole group out with his car - killing a bunch and maiming for life others. One of my neighbors was part of that attack and, fortunately survived thru it but is a paralized from the shoulders down for life.. Because it did not involved a gun and massacring people by using a vehicle seems to be more politically correct - public outcry for more Auto control was zilch.

An interesting study into what I am talking about happening here in the States might not be a bad idea BEFORE changes to our Constitutional rights take place.. Little things like banning the use of Alcohol or Drugs in Public might not be a bad idea.. I am not sure of this but I have a hunch that the loss of life or permanent injuries due to Auto accidents involving alcohol useage is probably substantially higher than the same involving guns. Another interesting study would be one of the same in countries such as Canada or even your homeland where zero tolerance to public use of Alcohol is not applied... I know,, what I am talking about sounds rediculous because,, well,, because telling people they will no longer be allowed to consume Alcohol outside of their homes is serious business.. On the same line of thought though - it might be important to remember that there are people in the U.S. who also take altering or changing our Constitutional rights - including the right to keep and bear arms - as very serious business too..

[Davin]

Very informative post Davin = thanks!! Looking at your gun collection = NICE - gotta ask,, what is that rifle in the forefront of your safe? The black one with the multi round magazine sticking out of it? Looks like maybe a 7.62x39 or maybe .223 rifle,, maybe even larger = .308 NATO? Cant see the action on it but that sweetheart sure looks Semi Auto to me? IMHO - Making it illegal to own a semi auto or full auto is a partial ban,, to some folks here it may also be considered a ban...

Speaking of mass murder,, a few years ago in the State of Wisconsin very near a small town of Fon Du Lac a young man driving a car decided to go bowling for bikers. A large group of riders from my home state - Michigan (included a few buddies of mine that I knew real well) - were on their annual ride around Lake Michigan when they met their demise at the hands of this mass murderer.. He took the whole group out with his car - killing a bunch and maiming for life others. One of my neighbors was part of that attack and, fortunately survived thru it but is a paralized from the shoulders down for life.. Because it did not involved a gun and massacring people by using a vehicle seems to be more politically correct - public outcry for more Auto control was zilch.

An interesting study into what I am talking about happening here in the States might not be a bad idea BEFORE changes to our Constitutional rights take place.. Little things like banning the use of Alcohol or Drugs in Public might not be a bad idea.. I am not sure of this but I have a hunch that the loss of life or permanent injuries due to Auto accidents involving alcohol useage is probably substantially higher than the same involving guns. Another interesting study would be one of the same in countries such as Canada or even your homeland where zero tolerance to public use of Alcohol is not applied... I know,, what I am talking about sounds rediculous because,, well,, because telling people they will no longer be allowed to consume Alcohol outside of their homes is serious business.. On the same line of thought though - it might be important to remember that there are people in the U.S. who also take altering or changing our Constitutional rights - including the right to keep and bear arms - as very serious business too..

Thanks Cowpuc. I agree with what you are saying and am interested in your ideas.

The black rifle is a 1942 91/30 mosin nagant 7.62 x 54R. Its bedded in a Archangel stock with 10 round magazine. Still very much a bolt action.

Just to clarify one point on our present gun laws. Semi auto military style rifles such as the AR15 etc are still available here but not to the general public. The licence requirements are very strict and you have to satisfy the need to own one such as a proffessional hunter.

So the only ban has been on automatics/machine guns and I am ok with that. Historical collectors can own machine guns and cannons etc but they must be inoperable.

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[mraf]

The beginning of this thread was "Pray for the USA". But I feel we all should not only do this but also write your congressman or woman. If you do not voice your opinion occasionally he or she does not know how their constituents feel or think. I have done this many times and have recieved back responses to my e-mails. I served some years in various positions in my towns government and believe me the old saying [ The squeaky wheel gets the grease] is sooooooooooooooo true!

[RandyR]

The beginning of this thread was "Pray for the USA". But I feel we all should not only do this but also write your congressman or woman. If you do not voice your opinion occasionally he or she does not know how their constituents feel or think. I have done this many times and have recieved back responses to my e-mails. I served some years in various positions in my towns government and believe me the old saying [ The squeaky wheel gets the grease] is sooooooooooooooo true!

 

good advice

[N3FOL]

To shoot a man just because you disagree with his government policies is very wrong. It is a sad day for America. The Congressman is still on critical condition and I am praying that he will recover fully.

[RDawson]

To shoot a man just because you disagree with his government policies is very wrong. It is a sad day for America. The Congressman is still on critical condition and I am praying that he will recover fully.

 

 

You hit the nail on the head. It's just wrong. I believe that if both sides could get together and use all the effort and money spent fighting over the guns (pro and con) to get to the bottom of the real issue we could get somewhere. The weapons have always been here without issue, so why has the mentality of people changed? I have opinion on this but this is not the place to air them.

[CaseyJ955]

In Australia we have had a couple of gun buy backs and a lot of tightening of our gun control laws. Instigated by a incident where more than 30 people were murdered by a lone gunman in Port Arthur, Tasmania. He used military style rifles.

I dont know off hand of anyone trying to shoot politicians in this country (not saying nobody wants to or hasn't thought about it). I do remember a guy ramming his car into parliament house a few years back.

With all the gun control and buy backs there are now more licenced shooters and more guns in Australia than before the Port Arthur massacre. What has changed is we are not allowed to have semi auto or full auto rifles. Hangun owners must belong to and attend sporting club shooting ranges. We have no concealed carry option with handguns. We have a 28 day waiting period while purchasing new firearms.

 

There is a low gun related murder rate here and I dont feel the need to carry a handgun for personal protection.

 

Crims and psychos can still get guns and gun crime still happens here but at a lower rate than the US. Laws may help but Crims and psychos have never cared much for laws. Our government has announced yet another amnesty allowing the law abiding citizens a chance to register or surrender unregistered firearms ( estimated to number around 250000 in this country). Of course no crims will be handing their guns in.

 

Gun control here is not a gun ban.

Law abiding citizens can still own guns and lots of them do. Like me.

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

I love your closet there, excellent. IMHO the problem in the USA has more to do with people than guns. No lone gunman should be able to off 30 people, unless they are all unarmed. Sucks that it has come to this but while I may leave my place without a gun I would NEVER EVER go into town without one. Sadly it really has come to that here, so much craziness going on in the world, and on our soil. It's really overwhelming to read national and international news every day. I would never hand over a gun to the gov, not under any circumstances and I'm a law abiding citizen, at least until the day they require all guns be relinquished.

[saddlebum]

I am not against responsible level headed people earning the right (let me repeat earning the right) to own guns. Ironically here in Canada Bleeding hearts have a louder voice than level headed people and so whenever there is an incident the cry goes out for either banning guns or stricter controls. Yet the minute Police try to go after the real culprits or those likely to abuse, the same idiots cry out about how profiling etc is abuse of these criminals rights. Gun crime in Toronto went up by 60% almost overnight as soon the Police hands were tied from randomly checking or profiling known or likely gang members from being searched.

 

I say let responsible people own guns after proper and thorough checks, education and testing and start coming down 100 fold on the criminals and gangsters.

[CaseyJ955]

The same crying goes on here, and it's LOUD. The NRA and our vast, quickly growing militias do put a real damper on those that would seek to violate our constitutional rights so we do thankfully have these factors. If you want to mobilize millions of Americans very quickly, roll out a gun buyback program or step on the constitution. That'l do er'. South Dakota and most of the states that touch it are sort of like the last bastion of the old west and we happy to go on about our lives without enduring the insane overregulation and revocation of rights/privacy seen on our coastal states that have fallen to terrible leadership.

 

Unfortunately when idiots use firearms as weapons and in the commission of crimes we all take a step backwards.