Pray for the USA

[RandyR]

Just watched the news about members of US Congress being shot while at a baseball practice.

 

Luckily no one killed, although some serious injuries from a lone gunman.

 

The polarization being created in the US disturbs me deeply.

 

May God Bless America

[bongobobny]

It's going to be interesting to see what the motivation was behind this incident! In away I am glad the suspect was captured alive...

[BlueSky]

Nope, the scumbag died.

[WildBill1]

Another Idiot with a gun I'm glad they shot the SOB. Guns are weapons for responsible citizens or soldiers not lunatic's.

[camos]

Another Idiot with a gun I'm glad they shot the SOB. Guns are weapons for responsible citizens or soldiers not lunatic's.

Yes they are. Really too bad they are handed out to anyone who wants one.

[cowpuc]

Yes they are. Really too bad they are handed out to anyone who wants one.

 

Here in the States their really not,, back ground checks are highly enforced when purchasing - anyone being able to walk in and being handed a gun is a myth.. On another note, Tip n I just went and listened to the testimony (wow - fascinating) of a Muslim who was radicalized at a very early age in Lebanon, sent to the states to commit jihad (kill all non Muslims and destroy our way of life) and became a Christian while here and now works steadfastly to inform people here of what is really going on.. His stand on gun usage is,, basically, it's viable BUT there are many many easier and more effective ways to kill/maim/destroy that he was trained in.. Cars (I always called em 2 ton full metal jacket boat tails) are very effective, a cup of gasoline in the right hands is way more effective than a handgun and even a box cutter in the hands of a group of mad men can kill thousands and LOTS more = all his words not mine..

Fact is - in the end, the right to keep and bear is a treasured part of our constitutional way of life - it may be hard for outsiders to understand but I tell ya what - if I were in a country that was under attack from forces abroad or even domestic I would rather be in a place where I KNEW for a fact that most, if not all, households had a form of protection that at least gave me a fighting chance and I somehow think the attackers may also consider this fact before they attack.. May not sound right but thats the way I view it..

[camos]

Here in the States their really not,, back ground checks are highly enforced when purchasing - anyone being able to walk in and being handed a gun is a myth..

Perhaps some places but I have heard a lot of reports about people doing exactly that. From a couple of hours to a couple of days to get a gun.

 

Fact is - in the end, the right to keep and bear is a treasured part of our constitutional way of life - it may be hard for outsiders to understand but I tell ya what - if I were in a country that was under attack from forces abroad or even domestic I would rather be in a place where I KNEW for a fact that most, if not all, households had a form of protection that at least gave me a fighting chance and I somehow think the attackers may also consider this fact before they attack.. May not sound right but thats the way I view it..

I'm not against carrying guns just think there should be a better job done to select people who are too unstable to have the privilege.

[MiCarl]

Perhaps some places but I have heard a lot of reports about people doing exactly that. From a couple of hours to a couple of days to get a gun.

 

What the reports probably aren't telling you is that before a firearm can leave a dealer the buyer must pass an FBI background check. Once the paperwork is filled out the check usually only takes minutes. This is federal law and applies in all 50 states.

 

Private transactions are different. Since I do not engage in the buying and selling of firearms as a business (I'm not a dealer) I can sell cowpuc a long gun without a background check or even doing any paperwork. For a hand gun the transaction would have to be registered with the state of Michigan, state law, doesn't apply everywhere.

 

The "Gun Show Loophole" you hear about has to do with private party transactions. If I sell cowpuc grandpa's old squirrel rifle at a gun show (a kind of flea market) there wouldn't need to be a background check. Someone taking a crate of squirrel rifles to the show is a dealer, needs a federal firearm license, and must do a background check on cowpuc just as he would in his store.

 

I would be committing a crime if I went into a dealer, passed the background check, and purchased a firearm with the intention of re-selling it to cowpuc in a private transaction. I believe it's a felony.

[XV1100SE]

...Fact is - in the end, the right to keep and bear is a treasured part of our constitutional way of life - it may be hard for outsiders to understand but I tell ya what - if I were in a country that was under attack from forces abroad or even domestic I would rather be in a place where I KNEW for a fact that most, if not all, households had a form of protection that at least gave me a fighting chance and I somehow think the attackers may also consider this fact before they attack.. May not sound right but thats the way I view it.

 

In Canada we see our "treasured part" to be things like universal health care, our Bill of Rights, Charter of Rights and Freedoms, Federal pension plan....to name a few. We see our government, military, police, and our intelligence agencies as our protection against foreign and domestic attack. Our multi-cultural nation with openness to accept people and cultures from anywhere in the world. Access to our government and representatives (our Prime Minister has been known to go for a walk at our Parliament and greet visitors). Our protection of the French language in Quebec is entrenched in our constitution (even though the British defeated the French in Canada in 1759). Women were able to vote federally in 1916 (1920 in the U.S.). Slavery was abolished in 1834 (by the British Parliament and applied to British colonies of which Canada was until 1867).

 

And yes, we are not perfect...and we apologize for that (Canadians are known for their politeness). But since this was about what is "treasured"...I'll leave it at that.

[dfitzbiz]

:rant:As Americans nearly all of us appreciate our constitutional way of life. There are some living here that just don’t believe in our ways. I don’t know why but they choose to stay. All are welcome, some we would prefer to have closely investigated prior to entering our country. Naturally we see our government, intelligence agencies, military and police as our protectors from threats both foreign and domestic. Obviously these fine agencies can’t completely protect us from every malcontent, terrorist, lunatic or just plain criminal out to do us harm. Typically what I do is assist these fine agencies by providing some security on my own.

 

I have a close family member that is a LEO supported by his wonder dog Rocco. I have complete confidence in their ability to fight crime. Even with all of their training they know that when seconds count the police are only minutes away.

 

It’s those minutes we need to be prepared for. I only hope that when my home and loved ones need protected that I’m prepared to do the job.

 

Thanks for letting me vent!

[BlueSky]

It is a felony to sell a gun to a felon. So, if I sold a gun to someone I didn't know well, I would do it through a dealer so the dealer could make the call to make sure the buyer is not a felon. I ordered guns from internet stores and that is the way they sell. They ship it to a dealer of your choice and the dealer charges a fee to run the background check and complete the sale. I've only sold to a co-worker at the nuclear plant. If you work at a nuclear plant you have to go through an extensive back ground check to get an access badge.

 

After working in Homestead FL for over 3 years, I started carrying due to the high crime rate in southern FL. Even if I needed it, there is no guarantee I would be able to use it. But, I don't believe in being a victim.

[Flyinfool]

Unfortunately I know that things will get much worse long before they get better. I refuse to live in fear of the loonies, and terrorists, in reality they are few and far between, BUT that does not mean I will be reckless or not make an effort to protect my family and myself. Heck I am probably the greatest danger to myself.

 

While there are back door ways to do almost anything including getting a gun. Myself and all of my friends that own guns all use the same policy when it is time to sell one. I require that I will take a picture of a current photo ID and a current state issued CCW before I will sell you one of my guns. Yes it does cost me some sales and often makes me wait longer to find a "qualified" buyer, but if they have a CCW I know that they have passed the same FBI background check (at least they did within the last 5 years) that a dealer uses. Not everyone does this. Probably most don't.

 

There is a good chance that the only reason I am here to type this is because I have loaded guns.

 

dfitzbiz

I resemble your signature...............

[Tater]

Something goes wrong, let's make a new law, like it makes any difference to crazy people, all the added laws do is make it harder and more expensive on law abiding citizens, it's already illegal to kill someone, most shootings are in gun free zones, and most don't legally own guns. Places with the strictest gun laws have the highest crime rates.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[dfitzbiz]

dfitzbiz

I resemble your signature...............

 

Flyinfool, I had a meeting one day with a client and a representative of a software company. The software rep explained the system and the safeguards in place. The client said that makes it pretty much "Fool Proof!". In response the rep says "Nothing is fool proof to a talented fool!". I wish I had been the original author but I can't take credit but it sure does make sense! I'm happy to share it with you.

[rickardracing]

I am licensed to conceal carry. And I do. I carry not to impose my will onto anyone else. I carry to keep others from imposing their will onto me. Times are changing and it is just a matter of time before what you see in other countries happens here in the States. I refuse to be a victim. As far as some of our Canadian friends loving all of their free Socialist benefits....it comes at a price. TAXES. Not going to get all political on the forum as politics and religion are not to be discussed.

As far as firearm availability and the right to keep and bear arms. It is our right to do so in the GREAT UNITED STATES OF AMRICA and for that, I offer no apologies whether asked for or not.

[CaseyJ955]

I am licensed to conceal carry. And I do. I carry not to impose my will onto anyone else. I carry to keep others from imposing their will onto me. Times are changing and it is just a matter of time before what you see in other countries happens here in the States. I refuse to be a victim. As far as some of our Canadian friends loving all of their free Socialist benefits....it comes at a price. TAXES. Not going to get all political on the forum as politics and religion are not to be discussed.

As far as firearm availability and the right to keep and bear arms. It is our right to do so in the GREAT UNITED STATES OF AMRICA and for that, I offer no apologies whether asked for or not.

 

I could not agree more with this. It's a good thing nobody that was ever POTUS did any grand apology tour or anything like that might make us all look like a bunch of PC sissies. Our constitution is one of our only saving graces right now.

 

I carry concealed pistol and occasionally I enjoy my right to open carry. Like you, I have no plans on becoming a victim. I'm responsible for the protection of myself and my family. Oh yea, and I just like guns, they are cool. When we think of how easy it is for an unstable individual to hit the street and get a gun its scary. Throwdown guns are like drugs, you can really buy anywhere at any time, legal or not. Illegal only means that no regulation is applied, nor taxes collected on any product or service not allowed by law. That is just the reality of our society. Gun control has failed, and will continue to fail as it should but idiot control is something we probably need to take a closer look at. It's hard to counter this trend of almost daily shootings in our country without looking at the people doing it instead of the tools employed in the act.

[XV1100SE]

It is a shame and sad that any innocent person is harmed whether it is by a disturbed person with any kind of weapon or a careless driver injuring or killing a biker.

 

This isn't about being pro or anti guns but is more of a comment about the different thinking in Canada vs the U.S.A.

 

Let me say this on the Canadian perspective...or at least in my personal opinion. Living in Canada I don't feel threatened and therefore don't need to be "prepared" for a perceived threat. When someone feels their family, themselves, or their country is being threatened certainly they have that right to defend with reasonable force. Most Canadians still don't lock their doors, aren't afraid to be on the streets after dark...Police maintain order by preventing crime in most cases just by their presence or people knowing that they are only a couple minutes away.

 

From what one sees in the media, I would think twice about walking in Chicago, Boston, or some major cities in the U.S.A. after dark. If I were in Toronto (same population size as Chicago) I have no worries about being out late at night. Chicago has the murder rate of all of Canada, and yes, I would be worried about my safety as well.

 

I respect your opinions and your defence of your Constitution and it's amendments just as I would defend the Canadian Constitution and our way of life. What prompted me to respond to this thread was the OP's original post that "The polarization being created in the US disturbs me deeply". I think that polarization is being driven by events being brought about by social factors - usually brought about by lack of money due to lack of work.....

[WildBill1]

Don't get me wrong on this I also have my ccw permit too but I'm a firm believer in gun control. Being a former Army trained soldier as a reconnaissance commando (Recondo) i feel that I've earned the privilege to own a AR-15 which I do. I believe the sell of these weapons to the general public should cease. Irresponsible people are buying and obtaining these weapons with no idea of the potential destruction they have.

[Kretz]

It is a shame and sad that any innocent person is harmed whether it is by a disturbed person with any kind of weapon or a careless driver injuring or killing a biker.

 

This isn't about being pro or anti guns but is more of a comment about the different thinking in Canada vs the U.S.A.

 

Let me say this on the Canadian perspective...or at least in my personal opinion. Living in Canada I don't feel threatened and therefore don't need to be "prepared" for a perceived threat. When someone feels their family, themselves, or their country is being threatened certainly they have that right to defend with reasonable force. Most Canadians still don't lock their doors, aren't afraid to be on the streets after dark...Police maintain order by preventing crime in most cases just by their presence or people knowing that they are only a couple minutes away.

 

From what one sees in the media, I would think twice about walking in Chicago, Boston, or some major cities in the U.S.A. after dark. If I were in Toronto (same population size as Chicago) I have no worries about being out late at night. Chicago has the murder rate of all of Canada, and yes, I would be worried about my safety as well.

 

I respect your opinions and your defence of your Constitution and it's amendments just as I would defend the Canadian Constitution and our way of life. What prompted me to respond to this thread was the OP's original post that "The polarization being created in the US disturbs me deeply". I think that polarization is being driven by events being brought about by social factors - usually brought about by lack of money due to lack of work.....

 

Hmmmm! Talk about rose coloured glasses.

Most Canadians don't lock their doors!" Really??? I don't of ONE that doesn't & we live in a small town.

You may want to look at this report & comments made by your Chief of Police...

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/6776327-crime-rate-up-in-waterloo-region/

about crime rate etc in Waterloo (which I think is pretty close to you) I'm not looking to get into an argument & I'm glad that YOU feel safe (even in big cities) but I really think you're understating the crime in Canada.

[MiCarl]

From what one sees in the media, I would think twice about walking in Chicago, Boston, or some major cities in the U.S.A. after dark. If I were in Toronto (same population size as Chicago) I have no worries about being out late at night. Chicago has the murder rate of all of Canada, and yes, I would be worried about my safety as well.

 

Most of the shootings in Chicago are gang on gang.

 

In most of our big cities you're pretty safe so long as you aren't somewhere you shouldn't be or doing something you shouldn't be doing.

[XV1100SE]

From the article :

"...Waterloo Region's crime rate is up because there has been an increase in property crimes such as identity fraud, break and enters and thefts of cars....

...The Statistics Canada report released Wednesday shows crime went up in 2015 in more cities across the country than it decreased, the first time in 12 years....Violent crime has also increased. Among the crimes contributing to the increase are person-on-person robberies, assault and weapons offences, said Larkin.

The national study labels severe crime as homicide, aggravated assault and sexual assault. Crime severity is measured annually by the national agency to better assess if crime is getting more or less severe over time.

The statistics measure the mix of crime based on average prison sentences handed down for convictions."

 

 

 

 

Same newspaper "police report for yesterday" (nothing else in the way of crimes warranted making the news) :

"WATERLOO — Police are investigating after a report of a robbery in the area of Hickory and Hemlock streets late Saturday night.

Police say two suspects approached a man who was walking the area at about 11:50 p.m. and stole an undisclosed amount of money. They were last seen southbound on Hemlock Street toward University Avenue.

The victim was not injured.

....Police are investigating the possibility the incident may be connected with an attempted robbery that happened about 20 minutes later in the area of Hickory and Hazel streets."

 

 

From Toronto, posted with today's date :

"Police have arrested 120 people in a co-ordinated series of overnight raids targeting a Toronto gang, Chief Mark Saunders said Thursday.

Raids by 800 police officers across the province resulted in 660 charges against people believed associated with the Driftwood Crips, Saunders told a midday news conference at Toronto police headquarters.

The charges relate to criminal organizations, attempted murder, trafficking firearms, kidnapping conspiracies, firearms possession, robbery and drug trafficking of various substances, including fentanyl, Saunders said."

 

 

From Chicago, posted with today's date :

"Two in custody after Norwood Park home invasion"

 

 

"Two facing charges after police chase ends in Bridgeview""

"Man charged with fatal shooting during McHenry home invasion"

"WEEK IN REVIEW: At least 19 killed in Chicago, including 12-year-old girl allegedly beaten and stabbed by mom's ex. (last weekend)"

"Niece says Charles Smith Jr., gunned down in Woodlawn, was a ‘great person’ who ‘didn’t do nothing’"

"$2M bond for man charged with fatal shooting of Vajah Ringgold earlier this month in Englewood"

"Man found shot to death in Park Manor alley identified as 21-year-old Emon Oneal"

"21-year-old Jesus Menviola shot to death during argument in Austin"

"28-year-old Deandre Smith found shot to death in Kenwood gangway"

 

 

The Chicago Sun Times has a section called "Homicide Watch"

 

 

Recall, Toronto and Chicago have roughly the same population :

Toronto year end homicides :

2013 -57

2014 - 58

2015 - 57

2016 - 74

2017 year to date - 21 (in line with the 2014/2015 numbers)

 

 

Chicago year end homicides :

2013 - 441

2014 - 432

2015 - 468

2016 - 762

2017 year to date - 292

 

 

So....do I feel safe in Kitchener (where I live), or going to Toronto ? YES

 

This post has nothing to do with politics, religion, or guns.

[XV1100SE]

Most of the shootings in Chicago are gang on gang.

 

In most of our big cities you're pretty safe so long as you aren't somewhere you shouldn't be or doing something you shouldn't be doing.

 

Gang on gang....Toronto is the same size...should be the same issues. What is different ?

 

We should have the freedom to do what we want where we want when we want within sociably acceptable manners. We shouldn't be worried about our safety in any neighbourhood.

 

AND....the 3rd Gen should be a liquid cooled V4 with shaft drive !

[Kretz]

Personally I see no problem in Responsible people having firearms, or knives, or crossbows or vehicles or anything else that could be & sadly has been used as a weapon.

Unfortunately, it’s not the Responsible people who cause the problems. It’s the “others” & there is little way to legislate against that.

I, like a previous poster, see no real reason for “ordinary people” to have military weapons, but understand that in the USA that is your right. I would however like to see more “checks & balances” on the process of getting a firearm & perhaps more training in their use. It’s a fact that most crime is committed with non registered firearms & by non licensed users.

 

Here in Canada (contrary to popular belief) we ARE allowed to own firearms BUT the process for getting approved is quite strict, & their use is also much regulated. Thought you may be interested....

 

Firearms in Canada are split into three distinct groups

Non-Restricted, Restricted & Prohibited.

These groups are defined by the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) basically our Federal Police Force. The RCMP have the power to change the classification of any firearm at any time & to move it from one group to another. This does happen & suddenly firearms owners can become criminals overnight because guns that they legally owned have now been placed into a group for which they (the owner) is now not licensed. The guns can be seized with no compensation paid to the owner.

 

There are two types of “licence” in Canada A PAL (Possession & Acquisition Licence) which allows us to buy & own Non-Restricted Firearms e.g “long guns” basically rifles for hunting, shotguns & the like. We can also own semi-autos BUT they are not allowed to hold any more than 5 rounds of ammunition. If they are produced as standard (by the manufacturer) with say a 10 or 20 round magazine the magazines are modified appropriately.

 

The second type of “licence” is an RPAL (Restricted Possession & Acquisition Licence) which cover firearms not in the PAL category & is basically all handguns, semi –auto pistols, revolvers etc. Magazines are again limited & may hold no more than 10 rounds. Again if larger magazines are produced by the manufacturer they are modified to comply with the 10 round maximum.

 

For an individual to obtain a “licence” eg PAL he/she must attend a one day course of around 8-10 hours with an approved instructor/ school which includes history, instruction, rules/ regulations, theory, hands on experience & must then take both a written & a practical test. Pass mark is 80% in both.

 

To obtain an RPAL (for handguns) you must first have completed & passed the PAL course. Then you take another one day course, this covers similar topics to PAL but related specifically to handguns & rules regulations use etc. Again passmark is 80%in both written & practical.

 

Once an individual has obtained the necessary course passes (as above) he/she then applies to the RCMP for the appropriate licences. The applicant must provide TWO references, plus a photo & photo ID reference. In addition the applicant must have the written approval of his/ her spouse/ partner & also of any previous spouse/ partner (within two years) The RCMP contact all said references & once the necessary, references/ approvals are received & background/ criminal record checks done the RCMP will then issue the appropriate licence/s. At their discretion! There's no guarantee. Usually this happens within approx 3 months

 

BUT we’re not done yet, although we are than allowed to purchase (subject to minimum waiting periods) & own firearms per our licence restrictions, all firearms purchased/ owned must be individually registered with the RCMP & they must be stored in a certain way, locked, (case/ safe/ trigger locks) unloaded & separate from ammo. We may NOT carry, but are allowed to transport our firearms between our homes & a registered shooting club/ range etc. (except in the case of rifles/ shotguns being used for hunting). Again there are specific rules/ reg's as to how the firearms must be transported.

It is also stated very clearly in the courses we attend that a firearm may NOT be used for personal defence of self, property or family. If it is then the user WILL be arrested, WILL be prosecuted & WILL most likely go to prison.

There used to be a requirement for a licence holder to obtain a “Permission to Transport” for EVERY firearm, EVERY time he/she wanted to transport it to the range. This requirement has been done away with (for now) BUT our Gov’t wants to reinstate it.

 

Anyway, sorry this has been such a long post but just thought you guys may be interested in what an honest, law abiding citizen has to go through to obtain a Firearms licence here in Canada.

 

One more thing in obtaining that licence, (which is only good for 5 years & costs $80!) we are required to give up certain of our “Charter Rights & Freedoms” in that the RCMP can at ANY time enter our home & search it without reason & it's nothing to do with the Firearms, they are granted the right to search one’s property. PERIOD. Even convicted criminals, drug dealers etc are not subject to this infringement of rights!

 

Not getting Political here as I know it’s not allowed, but there are those that think the above rules & regulations are not strict enough & want the Gov't to tighten them & introduce even more legislation (for law abiding citizens)!

Of course this would reduce/ stop all gun crime as it would make it much more difficult for criminals who want firearms for nefarious purposes to obtain them!

Oh!... wait a minute.... do these scumbags go through the procedures outlined above?

Edited June 16, 2017 by Kretz

[Condor]

I'm going to toss a monkey wrench into this thread. First off most posters so far are voicing their opinions, and what they think are the federal laws without taking into consideration that there are also state laws that restrict gun transactions. I live in California...need i say more?? I hold an FFL3/COE C&R license which basically gives me certain 'rights and privileges' above a US Citizen in order to carry on my hobby of collecting guns, but I can not make a living...or profit... from 'dealing in firearms. To understand what an FFL1 business goes thru it takes a Philadelphia Lawyer to keep everything on the up and up with the federal laws. Let's just say except for a few states it takes a lot of paper work before anyone can walk out the door with a gun... Cash'n'carry days are long gone... Except for a few FFL3 instances, all firearm transactions must go thru a FFL1 dealer. Either as a PPT.. Private Party Transfer.. or a DROS.. Dealer Record of Sale... with a 10day waiting period.

 

http://www.cast-aways.com/CONDORPICS/Sam-Side.jpg

[bongobobny]

:icon_lurker: