What Do Y'all Have Against Belt Drive Motorcycles?

[SilvrT]

but they never should have named it a Venture with the v-twin engine

 

Why not? Have y'all lost sight of the meaning of the word and why Yamaha originally called the bike "Venture"?

[Kirby]

From the'83 model up to the last, they were all 4 cylinder, shaft driven, water cooled. These things were the heart and soul of the Yamaha Venture. I'm not saying anything negative about the new bike, because I haven't seen or ridden it yet. It may turn out to be a truly great bikebut, as I said before, imo, they shouldn't have named it a Venture. It may well turn out to be the greatest thing to go Venturing on, but again, imo they should have called it something else because the Venture line is dead in my opinion.

[BigLenny]

I wonder if this same type banter happened among the Kawi Voyager lotalists whenever they unveiled the all new VTwin Voyager? One big difference though, they got a water cooled VTwin.

 

P.S. But that mofo is one hot running VTwin. And I don't mean speed.

[SilvrT]

 

As mentioned, the shaft drive on a touring bike meant reliability. Chain and belt mean maintenance or breakdown in the middle of nowhere.

 

 

hmmmmmm... I recall having to replace the pumpkin on my '85 due to "lack of maintenance" by the PO. The splines in the drive shaft had become so rusted they broke. There was a grease fitting on the tube but you could pump all the grease you wanted into there and it still didn't get into the splines.

 

I bolded the word maintenance because every shaft drive bike requires the diff oil to be changed regularly and at least on the 1st and 2nd gen Ventures you also have to clean and re-grease the splines as well as the dampeners on a regular basis.

 

Now what maintenance is required on a belt other than occasional adjustment which is a piece of cake????

 

(just being the devils advocate here)

[SilvrT]

P.S. But that mofo is one hot running VTwin. And I don't mean speed.

 

Proof that 'water cooled' does not necessarily mean cool.

[mabeline]

I know belt drives do break, but I don't think it's a common thing is it? I think no more than a flat tire, blown rad hose,dead battery or fried ignition !

There's been a lot of vehicles in the past that were awesome. A bunch of years later the manufacturer almost killed the name. Case in point : Mustang in the 1990's or the Charger in the late 1980's. Now they're icons once more!?

[cowpuc]

hmmmmmm... I recall having to replace the pumpkin on my '85 due to "lack of maintenance" by the PO. The splines in the drive shaft had become so rusted they broke. There was a grease fitting on the tube but you could pump all the grease you wanted into there and it still didn't get into the splines.

 

I bolded the word maintenance because every shaft drive bike requires the diff oil to be changed regularly and at least on the 1st and 2nd gen Ventures you also have to clean and re-grease the splines as well as the dampeners on a regular basis.

 

Now what maintenance is required on a belt other than occasional adjustment which is a piece of cake????

 

(just being the devils advocate here)

 

Gotta agree,, todays belts are amazingly durable compared to those produced just a few short years ago.. I am sure the wear factor is up high and, as suggested, maintenance is a piece of cake. I will add though that I have stopped to assist more than one failed belt over the course of time. While all of those I have been involved with were Harley's (lots of HD's out at the rallies and HD has been belt drive for a good while now) and, on a Harley the process of installing a new belt is just as involved as taking down a drive shaft. The entire primarys (compensator and sprocket on crank, complete clutch assembly) has got to come apart plus - definitely not a road side repair. Not sure on the new Yam but I am almost positive the swingarms gotta come apart on a Strat to do the belt and this new one may be the same..

Now,, I know,, normal people dont ride off road much on a touring bike.. I know that on my bikes I have come "out of woods" dragging sticks and having a row of weeds dragging behind and beside me big enough for a squirrel to build a nest out of it.. If I were riding a belt driven scoot under those conditions I would probably be reluctant to adventure much across creeks and deer trailing along the rim of the Grand Canyon for fear of picking up a stick stout enough to cause belt damage.. Plus I know for sure that a lot of those Utah dirt pits in the back road mountain trails out there have some pretty good rocks in em cause I have had to stop and knock em out of my tire well (even had it happen on a front tire once). Matter of fact, I have often said that if I ever did end up going back to anything other than a shaft drive for my touring needs I would probably need to find something I could convert back to chain/sprockets like my 78 Low Rider I toured on had (or my dirt bikes).. Modern day chains have also come a LONG ways in durability with zero maintenance (O-Rings) and, personally, I would far trust a chain/sprocket more to avoid stick/stone/debris failure even with todays belt quality. Chain/sprockets also usually give the owner a very easy means to toss gearing at his bike simply by swapping out front sprockets and making a huge difference in performance thereby (always carried a full set of front sprockets for my dirt bikes - 1 down on the front of my KX500 would turn it into a rock crawling monster and 2 teeth up on the same and you could ride it on the back wheel for miles and it dominated the drag strip/ had a top speed of over 120 - talk about fun!!

[CaseyJ955]

I know belt drives do break, but I don't think it's a common thing is it? I think no more than a flat tire, blown rad hose,dead battery or fried ignition !

There's been a lot of vehicles in the past that were awesome. A bunch of years later the manufacturer almost killed the name. Case in point : Mustang in the 1990's or the Charger in the late 1980's. Now they're icons once more!?

 

What kills a belt in a hurry is getting a rock or something stuck between the belt and pulley. They work if they are guarded against this. They are light, quiet and long lasting. I think replacement intervals is 100k mi (?) Which is further than many of the air cooled bikes that use them will go without major work, or at all. I think a broken belt in a properly maintained bike would be less common than a flat or dead battery. IMHO the belt was the right choice for this bike.

 

This thing with the Venture is going to blow over eventually. I think calling it a Venture was a serious misstep by Yamaha but other than that it sounds like they made a bike a lot of non-venturers cant wait to get their hands on.

[cowpuc]

What kills a belt in a hurry is getting a rock or something stuck between the belt and pulley. They work if they are guarded against this. They are light, quiet and long lasting. I think replacement intervals is 100k mi (?) Which is further than many of the air cooled bikes that use them will go without major work, or at all. I think a broken belt in a properly maintained bike would be less common than a flat or dead battery. IMHO the belt was the right choice for this bike.

 

This thing with the Venture is going to blow over eventually. I think calling it a Venture was a serious misstep by Yamaha but other than that it sounds like they made a bike a lot of non-venturers cant wait to get their hands on.

 

Yep,, I totally agree Casey,,, fact is - I personally just had my fingers/toes/legs/eyes and even ears crossed really tightly that Mom Yam was gonna do something spectacular in the realm of performance.. Something that, like my R1 does for me, would put performance orientated permanent smile on a new owners face bigger then the state of Texas.. You gotta know what I am talking about,, the type of knock down drag out BOOGIE that - after wickin the thing up - a test rider would come back shakin and say = "I simply have NO desire to own ANYTHING other than that right there - WOW!!"...

Fact is,, Harley has had such a strangle hold on the V-Twin market for so long and others have chased that phenomenom for so long that - to me,, it just gets old.. Instead it would have been neat for Mom Yam to take another stab at become King in a whole different realm - a real performance touring machine capable of covering those longgggggggggg stretches of open nothingness out west while keeping up with those planes flying over head...

You know what my friend,, I am actually coming down some from it all already as you mention.. I keep looking at that motor, the styling and stuff.. Actually getting kind of excited about chasing down some test rides myself.. Matter of fact,, if I get a chance to grab a low dollar Raider I may just grab one just to spend some time with that 113 inch pushrod motor.. Always been a chopper kind of guy,, think that may just fill a need for a retirement chopper craving..

 

Yep KC, things are calming down..

[slowrollwv]

Yep,, I totally agree Casey,,, fact is - I personally just had my fingers/toes/legs/eyes and even ears crossed really tightly that Mom Yam was gonna do something spectacular in the realm of performance.. Something that, like my R1 does for me, would put performance orientated permanent smile on a new owners face bigger then the state of Texas.. You gotta know what I am talking about,, the type of knock down drag out BOOGIE that - after wickin the thing up - a test rider would come back shakin and say = "I simply have NO desire to own ANYTHING other than that right there - WOW!!"...

Fact is,, Harley has had such a strangle hold on the V-Twin market for so long and others have chased that phenomenom for so long that - to me,, it just gets old.. Instead it would have been neat for Mom Yam to take another stab at become King in a whole different realm - a real performance touring machine capable of covering those longgggggggggg stretches of open nothingness out west while keeping up with those planes flying over head...

You know what my friend,, I am actually coming down some from it all already as you mention.. I keep looking at that motor, the styling and stuff.. Actually getting kind of excited about chasing down some test rides myself.. Matter of fact,, if I get a chance to grab a low dollar Raider I may just grab one just to spend some time with that 113 inch pushrod motor.. Always been a chopper kind of guy,, think that may just fill a need for a retirement chopper craving..

 

Yep KC, things are calming down..

 

 

Puc I know a few people that have the raider and was going to buy one my self. They have one complaint with them. You can't keep a rear tire on them.

[Yammer Dan]

If they will get rid of a rear tire any faster than my 1st Gens did I need to Stay Away from them!!!

I had threads hangingout of a Dunlop 404 in 2700 miles.....

[snyper316]

Dang I got almost 1000 on my tires and my rear still has some prickly lol

 

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[WildBill1]

Nothing, more power to the rear wheel. No lost power thru gears. Wish I had a belt drive on my Honda VTX.

[BlueSky]

Yamaha chose to get into the wannabe Harley market. That's okay. I suppose that big V twin should have passing power on the road. I hope they sell enough to come out ahead financially. Those of us who prefer an older Venture, or Goldwing, or BMW have those choices.

[WildBill1]

Yea, I can't wait to pull up beside one and see how it hangs with me.

[cowpuc]

Yea, I can't wait to pull up beside one and see how it hangs with me.

 

Stock 96 inch Bill?

[WildBill1]

Well if the 96 won't do the job I'll jump on the slightly modified 110 Ultra and look for him. Anyway it will be fun and enlightening.

[snyper316]

Speaking of passing power I was on the on-ramp behind some slow poke okay they weren't really slow they were driving a camper pulling a trailer but I didn't want to hang behind him anymore getting on the interstate and I just lit Tinker up and she shot up to 90 out of nowhere and when I was behind that guy we were doing 25-30. I only have one question can that be done with a belt drive?

 

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[slowrollwv]

Speaking of passing power I was on the on-ramp behind some slow poke okay they weren't really slow they were driving a camper pulling a trailer but I didn't want to hang behind him anymore getting on the interstate and I just lit Tinker up and she shot up to 90 out of nowhere and when I was behind that guy we were doing 25-30. I only have one question can that be done with a belt drive?

 

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One word. Yes.

[cowpuc]

Well if the 96 won't do the job I'll jump on the slightly modified 110 Ultra and look for him. Anyway it will be fun and enlightening.

 

INDEED!! Actually I was just curious if your scoot was the stock 96 or if it had been massaged some.. Have tinkered with the 96 some and gotta say,, little cam improvement here, little race tuner there and that motor really comes alive!!

 

Speaking of passing power I was on the on-ramp behind some slow poke okay they weren't really slow they were driving a camper pulling a trailer but I didn't want to hang behind him anymore getting on the interstate and I just lit Tinker up and she shot up to 90 out of nowhere and when I was behind that guy we were doing 25-30. I only have one question can that be done with a belt drive?

 

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Yep,, you betcha Snype! Matter of fact,, next time your near a Harley shop - stop in and see if they happen to have one of their little Performance Catalogs they could give ya.. Its not a real big book but PACKED with all kinds of really neat info about that "stage kits", cam selections and the like.. The even neater thing about that little book is it gives specs on cam grinds and dyno test results.. Couple years ago a buddy and I took his brand new 103 inch Ultra Limited, got the parts and went to playing.. Selected just the right cam grind, had the heads opened up a little, pipe, breather, tuner,,,, ended up 106 hp and 103 foot pounds torque and the flatest dyno curve ya ever did see = beautiful!! Bike runs REAL strong BUT - it was only 74 horse when we started - gotta massage em to make en run like your talking on your Yam - definitely about motor, not so much about the belt drive.. Those new kevlar belts are amazingly strong!

[cowpuc]

Puc I know a few people that have the raider and was going to buy one my self. They have one complaint with them. You can't keep a rear tire on them.

 

If they will get rid of a rear tire any faster than my 1st Gens did I need to Stay Away from them!!!

I had threads hangingout of a Dunlop 404 in 2700 miles.....

 

Yep,, my nephew swears that his Strat ATE tires just because of the massive torque hit everytime one of those coffee can size pistons came to TDC and ignition took place.. Swears he could here a small burn out happening continually ..

Gotta say Dan,, those 404's were the worst of the worst for me too bro!! Think Dunlop created em just to see how many they could sell by attrition

We put em on, the 1st Gen tosses em off - just like a toddler tossing food off his high chair tray

[snyper316]

So the belt wont slip like a SOG? I like to goose it as hard as I can, I figured I would be smelling at least alot of burnt threads and rubber...

[cowpuc]

So the belt wont slip like a SOG? I like to goose it as hard as I can, I figured I would be smelling at least alot of burnt threads and rubber...

 

Nope - their toothed on the belt and the teeth precisely mesh/fit into cogs on the pulleys.. Actually not that far removed from a chain and sprockets set up.. If you do slide a belt like your talking about - you can almost be assured the belt is done for. Usually a ruined belt is such because it got damaged/cut. I have seen people running belts that were damaged with 1/2 wide gashes in the sides of them on Big Twins - that material is so tough it is almost untearable BUT - it is risky to keep running them when damaged cause they can and do come unglued..

Next time you get around a belt drive scoot - take a close look down there at the system - you'll see what I am talking about..

You know, another good one to consider here is the Sling Shot 3 wheeler Polaris makes.. They have a very unique drive system in them - goes from a GM car engine/tranny out a driveshaft that mates to a right angle drive. The output on the right angle drive is a belt pulley - the rear wheel has a mating belt pulley.. The bike weighs just under 2000 pounds and the motor produces almost 200 horse.. Ya oughta see the burnouts and stuff people do with those things - great big ol wide car tire on the back - WHAM,, lite er up like crazy.. Belts seem to handle that application just fine from all I have heard.. Larry/ Carbon One has one of those Slings I have ridden in,, he could elaborate on the belt durability if you PM'd him..

[CaseyJ955]

What he said. It bears a resemblance to a timing belt and cam pulley.

 

Here, this is a fair explanation and although it's a drawing it does articulate the idea. Pretty cool really.

http://www.howmotorcycleswork.com/articles/article024.htm

[snyper316]

Soo basically just like timing belts.. But imagine built better. Think my 74 mustang that was supposed to be replaced in wanting to say every 50,000 miles I could be off...

 

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