What Do Y'all Have Against Belt Drive Motorcycles?

[SilvrT]

After reading the posts about the new venture and seeing so many stating they dislike belt drive,

 

I'm curious to know what y'all think is wrong with them?

 

And why do y'all think the shaft drive is better?

 

Let's also hear from the PRO side of the fence too...

 

(well at least this ain't an oil debate... )

[CMCOFFEY]

I have only had 1 belt driven bike (2006 Harley 1200R). I did not hate it but their was a slight lag to the power being out to the wheel. It felt almost like a sling shot at times.

 

Shaft drive is much more instant with the power. Although I know it is possible to strip out gears, I just trust it more when I am fooling around; which I do often.

[Mopar4ever]

Absolutely nothing against belt drive here, in fact I like it. Like a chain without the drawbacks. JMHO

[snyper316]

Drive it down a gravel road and you will find out real quick why people dont like them, I have helped many in the 2000s when there belt snapped... its not fun loading a big bike in the back of a truck specially the bigger custom one some guy had....

[Mopar4ever]

Drive it down a gravel road and you will find out real quick why people dont like them, I have helped many in the 2000s when there belt snapped... its not fun loading a big bike in the back of a truck specially the bigger custom one some guy had....

Maybe I'm just lucky, but ran a Kawi 454 for a year up in the north country, where I lived 40km from town on a gravel road. Had a hell of a time keeping tires on it, but not a single problem with the belt. Again, might just be lucky.

[videoarizona]

Drive it down a gravel road and you will find out real quick why people dont like them, I have helped many in the 2000s when there belt snapped... its not fun loading a big bike in the back of a truck specially the bigger custom one some guy had....

 

:sign yeah that:my friend with the HD Ultra wont ride down dirt roads..... Get a stone in the belt... You are toast.

 

I have no problems with belt drive. I'm not taking a 900 pound beast out in the desert anyway.

[snyper316]

:sign yeah that:my friend with the HD Ultra wont ride down dirt roads..... Get a stone in the belt... You are toast.

 

I have no problems with belt drive. I'm not taking a 900 pound beast out in the desert anyway.

 

Hell my question is will this 1/2 ton bike make it up a mountain and with belt drive, I know pucster wouldnt be able to take it where we can get our bikes, I know I wouldnt dare trying to take that bike to Joplin Falls...

[camos]

After reading the posts about the new venture and seeing so many stating they dislike belt drive,

 

I'm curious to know what y'all think is wrong with them?

 

And why do y'all think the shaft drive is better?

 

Let's also hear from the PRO side of the fence too...

 

(well at least this ain't an oil debate... )

As has been mentioned, belt drives are vulnerable to damage although if they have adequate guards then that might not be a hugely immediate problem. Perhaps not such a problem for a bar hopper however, losing a belt in the middle of nowhere could be life threatening. Also, belt drives will not last for 10 to 30 years without replacement.

 

Belt drives are inexpensive and should get the power to the road better than a shaft. There is less mass so more instantaneous power on the throttle and also less roll on off the throttle. Exactly what is needed in a sport bike, not so much in a touring bike. It's really a cheap out solution that is not particularly suitable for a real transcontinental touring bike.

[XV1100SE]

Comparison of belt/chain/shaft - http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/mc-garage-video-motorcycle-final-drive-systems-compared

 

In short (from the link) :

- Packaging and difficulty of replacement are the biggest drawbacks. Belts can’t wrap as tightly as chains so they need to be run on big pulleys that wouldn’t necessarily fit on smaller bikes. And when it comes to replacing a drive belt, the process usually entails removing the swingarm. Belts also sap a lot more power than sprockets and chains, so they’re not nearly as efficient.

 

- Drive shafts are low maintenance, run clean, are impervious to rain and dirt, and—barring any sort of freak failure—will last the life of the bike. Those are important benefits, but shafts are also expensive to build, they weigh a lot, and they sap a lot more power than other final-drive systems. And you can forget about easy gearing changes.

 

- As with most things that are mass-produced, cost is a huge factor, and chains and sprockets are cheap to make. They’re also compact, fairly durable, easy to replace, offer easy gearing changes, and are the most efficient means of power transmission. Yes, chains require regular cleaning and lubrication, tend to make a mess of things, are quite a bit noisier, and wear out much faster than belts or shafts

 

Another link - http://www.chuckhawks.com/motorcycle_drive_systems.htm

Chain

-The owner of a chain drive bike possesses the most time consumptive system in terms of maintenance. Chain drive requires a very well aligned rear wheel to ensure that the chain is running in a straight line. Chains must be lubricated on their INSIDE run, because the lubrication also cushions the steel sprockets from premature metal-on-metal wear....fixing even a flat tubeless tire requires complete removal of the rear wheel and dealing with a grease and dirt laden chain

- Chains are usually supplied as “endless” units on new bikes from their makers, while replacement chains can have their pins staked by the shop that installs it, or by using a master link that is removable for off the bike cleaning and servicing of the chain. These spring clips can fail and cause the entire chain to become one nasty rotating projectile and usually locking the rear wheel, but simply degreasing that master link and dabbing on some high temperature silicon sealant pretty much precludes this from happening.

- Finally, chains run dirty. “Chain fling” throws grease and dirt over all nearby surfaces, including the rider's leg, rear wheel, swing arm and the interior of the countershaft sprocket cover, among other places. Final drive chains are typically found on less expensive motorcycles, racing bikes, dirt bikes, enduro bikes and sport bikes.

Belt

- Belt drive is quieter than chain drives or shaft drives; indeed, they are the quietest of any of the drive systems. It is also highly efficient, very close to being as efficient as chain drive and considerably more efficient than shaft drive. Lacking any need for lubrication, periodic maintenance consists of occasional inspection for removal of excess dirt.

- Belts run much cleaner than chains. ... A belt is generally quite a bit lighter than a chain itself, though the sprockets needed to drive it are generally heavier and larger than their chain drive counterparts.

- belts do not create any kind of torque rise by the rear wheel extending, as do shaft drive systems when power is applied. This means a more consistent chassis attitude and a generally more comfortable ride quality and better handling

- A properly inspected and tension maintained belt will typically outlast a chain by at least a factor of two or three, 40,000+ miles as a minimum. (H-D belts may go twice that far.) This means that most owners will never have to replace a drive belt. It is recommended to replace the belt pulleys every other belt change, because they do slowly wear.

- Belt drive pulleys are generally more limited in selection for gearing changes than chain drive sprockets, although belt drive is more flexible in this regard than shaft drive. Toothed pulleys are more expensive to manufacture than the flat sprockets used by chains and consequently cost more to the consumer

- belt drive is possibly not as durable as a chain when subjected to very high horsepower engines or if drag raced. Synthetic rubber reinforced with Kevlar is very strong stuff, but those little drive teeth can and will shear under abuse

Shaft

- shaft drives are the cleanest of all the drive system

- due to the rear drive being fixed to the swing arm, there is no need for rear wheel alignment to be performed by the owner during tires changes or repairs. Indeed, on all current BMWs using shafts, the swing arm is single-sided and removal of the rear wheel is as simple as turning out four lug nuts with the included tool kit angle wrench, same as a car. No muss, no fuss, no access problem, no need to align an axle through a swing arm, or dealing with multiple washers or fasteners.

- much heavier than other drive systems, degrading acceleration, handling and ride quality while increasing braking distance. While the drive case itself is cast aluminum, the ring and pinion helical gears, the drive shaft and its U-joints and the larger swing arm to contain and mount all that stuff are substantially heavier than other drive systems, resulting in higher unsprung weight

- characteristic known as “shaft-jacking” effect. When one applies power to the wheel, the fixed pinion gear rotates in line with the end of the swing arm, but the ring gear that is 90-degrees from the pinion geometrically reacts to power application by causing a perceptible rise to the rider’s seat.

- when power is chopped suddenly, the bike’s rear attitude drops just as quickly. If one is riding at a fast clip, exploring the limits of ground clearance and the rider is ham-fisted about cutting power, one could have hard parts levering the wheel to the outside of the turn, causing a crash. This is an “in extremis” case, but it is something old hands riding those older shaft bikes understand.

- Shaft drives are also more expensive to buy on a new bike, as well as more complex than a chain or belt. They are typically slightly noisier than a belt, but quieter than a chain. Unlike a chain or belt drive, easy gearing changes are impractical. When the shaft unit finally needs a rebuild, usually at mileages near or exceeding 100,000 miles, they are the most expensive, due to gear replacement and possibly u-joint and main bearing replacement. However, most new motorcycle buyers will never put enough miles on their shaft drive motorcycles to require rebuilding the drive system

[Du-Rron]

I like belt drives. Had a few. However... rock meet belt... Up to $1000 for repair. Rock meet shaft drive. Shaft drive says, "huh, what did you say?"

Tenere has a shaft drive for a reason. Mega tour bikes should have shaft drive for same reason.

[Yammer Dan]

Here in West by God we go up Dirt roads cross creeks go thru mud holes and I'll keep my SHAFT!!!

[videoarizona]

Interesting article on comparing drives.

 

I replaced the rear tire on my VStar 95Tourer last month. The belt was easy to get to. Hoping the new Venture is designed same way. There is no reason the rear end has to come apart just to replace a belt!

[CaseyJ955]

Interesting article on comparing drives.

 

I replaced the rear tire on my VStar 95Tourer last month. The belt was easy to get to. Hoping the new Venture is designed same way. There is no reason the rear end has to come apart just to replace a belt!

. Because a belt has no master link, on some bikes lots of disassembly is required to R&R it.

 

As a counterpoint A shaft drive would zap power the bike probably cant afford to loose and the weight of a pumpkin, shaft and housing would add weight this bike cant afford to gain. IMHO a belt was the sensible option for this machine, based on what we know so far.

[Flyinfool]

It depends on what materials the belt is made from. Kevlar is a popular belt reinforcement. Kevlar has some interesting properties. It grows when it gets cold. So if you get out west and drive from the desert to a high elevation where it is cold, could the belt loosen enough to slip? One slip and the belt is toast. Or if you go from a mountain to deep hot valley will the belt tighten up enough to bind the bearings.

 

The weak link on most timing belts is the teeth. How will ti take a sudden application of torque, like when you take off quick from a stop light, and the back tire slips a bit as it is crossing the wide white paint line and then just as suddenly 18 inches later, hits good pavement again. will that shock load rip the teeth off of the belt?

[MikeWa]

Love belt drive. I just refuse to own one.

 

Mike

[XV1100SE]

.

As a counterpoint A shaft drive would zap power the bike probably cant afford to loose and the weight of a pumpkin, shaft and housing would add weight this bike cant afford to gain. IMHO a belt was the sensible option for this machine, based on what we know so far.

 

950lb bike ....shaft drive best option for a touring bike...VMax 4 cylinder motor

Touring bikes often go several hundred miles in a day in all weather and are running for hours....liquid cooled is best....VMax liquid cooled motor

 

As for the horsepower lost by a shaft....simple solution....throw more horsepower at it. VMax motor even slightly de-tuned would drive a 950lb bike.

 

It is interesting reading on some of the other forums. Victory people say this is what Victory should have put out - fix all the issues they've had. That is people who have driven nothing but a v-twin. As a fellow rider who has had the "bells and whistles" of a bike made for touring (RSV) there were only a few things they needed to do for a true third gen. Guess you don't miss what you never had.

[videoarizona]

It depends on what materials the belt is made from. Kevlar is a popular belt reinforcement. Kevlar has some interesting properties. It grows when it gets cold. So if you get out west and drive from the desert to a high elevation where it is cold, could the belt loosen enough to slip? One slip and the belt is toast. Or if you go from a mountain to deep hot valley will the belt tighten up enough to bind the bearings.

 

The weak link on most timing belts is the teeth. How will ti take a sudden application of torque, like when you take off quick from a stop light, and the back tire slips a bit as it is crossing the wide white paint line and then just as suddenly 18 inches later, hits good pavement again. will that shock load rip the teeth off of the belt?

 

Had that happen to me on VStar.. At full throttle. No problems with belt.

[SilvrT]

Drive it down a gravel road and you will find out real quick why people dont like them,

 

Get a stone in the belt... You are toast.

 

 

In the case of the new Venture, note that the belt has guards on it to prevent that from happening.

[BigLenny]

One of the first places i went to last night after the announcement was the Victory owners site theVOG.net. These are people who ride belt drive, air cooled v-twins all over the nation, and don't think twice about it. As stated on the post above, these folks are crazy excited on what they saw from Yamaha yesterday. They will buy it and not think twice about it not being a V4, or water cooled. This is the market Yamaha wants/needs to pull buyers from to stay in the full dresser market.

 

If they had went the other way (V4, shaft drive, water cooled), they would be trying to pull buyers from Goldwing, BMW K1600GTL, and other assorted sport tour bikes. They simply aren't going to pull very many of those folks. And, the market isn't very large with those bikes.

 

When I go on vacation, and I went on one again this past March to Key West, the ratio, and I'm not over estimating this at all, of v-twin, air cooled, belt drive full dresser touring bikes on the road is easily over 80% of the bikes I see. And, I think really the percentage is higher. And, the vast majority of those are Harleys. Then the remaining 20% is made up of Goldwings, and other non v-twin bikes. It appears Yamaha believes, and I think I agree with them, that they must tap into the huge V-Twin market to stay alive in the full dresser touring market.

 

So, what Yamaha has created is a beautiful bike that has a honkin, high quality, torque filled V-Twin to appeal to the vast V-Twin market, but they also designed the bike to look a tad more futuristic, which might just draw a few folks from the Wing, and the K1600GTL. We'll see.

 

Having said all of that, I too wish it was a V4, water cooled, shaft drive beast. But, I'm beginning to start to understand why they did it.

[Rick Haywood]

I am guessing one dvantage at least for me is the Belt Drive won't lock up your back wheel if it breaks.

[snyper316]

I am guessing one dvantage at least for me is the Belt Drive won't lock up your back wheel if it breaks.

You have a point.... Because our drives literally have no where to go if they break.

 

Sent from my LG-K371 using Tapatalk

[SilvrT]

One of the first places i went to last night after the announcement was the Victory owners site theVOG.net. These are people who ride belt drive, air cooled v-twins all over the nation, and don't think twice about it. As stated on the post above, these folks are crazy excited on what they saw from Yamaha yesterday. They will buy it and not think twice about it not being a V4, or water cooled. This is the market Yamaha wants/needs to pull buyers from to stay in the full dresser market.

 

If they had went the other way (V4, shaft drive, water cooled), they would be trying to pull buyers from Goldwing, BMW K1600GTL, and other assorted sport tour bikes. They simply aren't going to pull very many of those folks. And, the market isn't very large with those bikes.

 

When I go on vacation, and I went on one again this past March to Key West, the ratio, and I'm not over estimating this at all, of v-twin, air cooled, belt drive full dresser touring bikes on the road is easily over 80% of the bikes I see. And, I think really the percentage is higher. And, the vast majority of those are Harleys. Then the remaining 20% is made up of Goldwings, and other non v-twin bikes. It appears Yamaha believes, and I think I agree with them, that they must tap into the huge V-Twin market to stay alive in the full dresser touring market.

 

So, what Yamaha has created is a beautiful bike that has a honkin, high quality, torque filled V-Twin to appeal to the vast V-Twin market, but they also designed the bike to look a tad more futuristic, which might just draw a few folks from the Wing, and the K1600GTL. We'll see.

 

 

 

You're so right about that! Practically every where one goes, what do you see most of? Harleys!

 

From my perspective the new Venture has all the things I prefer. If they went with the V-max motor then it would be much heavier as well as top heavy which adversely affects low speed handling IMO. The only thing that would prevent me from buying one is if it had poor low speed handling. I doubt it would since it has a low center of gravity and low seat height.

 

As for engine heat, ya, when it's above 85 degrees you notice it but primarily in stop and go traffic but at least with the Victory, once I removed the CATs and had it dyno'd, the heat wasn't all that bad. Once you're in temps hovering around 100+ it's hard to tell if the heat is from the engine, the pavement, or just the air. Just standing on a corner and it's friggin HOT!

 

It will be interesting to read what new owners/riders have to say about "engine heat" ...

[CaseyJ955]

950lb bike ....shaft drive best option for a touring bike...VMax 4 cylinder motor

Touring bikes often go several hundred miles in a day in all weather and are running for hours....liquid cooled is best....VMax liquid cooled motor

 

As for the horsepower lost by a shaft....simple solution....throw more horsepower at it. VMax motor even slightly de-tuned would drive a 950lb bike.

 

It is interesting reading on some of the other forums. Victory people say this is what Victory should have put out - fix all the issues they've had. That is people who have driven nothing but a v-twin. As a fellow rider who has had the "bells and whistles" of a bike made for touring (RSV) there were only a few things they needed to do for a true third gen. Guess you don't miss what you never had.

 

I think you and I are on the same page. It should have V4 and shaft drive. I figured the motor would be retuned for more voluptuous lpw end torque, better MPG (the gen2 Vmax gets pretty ****ty mpg too) and still have robust satisfying midrange poke (rather than not even having a midrange) and of course double that minivan-esque redline. It eludes me. My comment about belt drive being the correct choice was with consideration that the rest of the bike is what it is.

 

Honestly I would have no real issues with this bike if Yamaha were more transparent about even the most basic info during development and they shoulld have never called it a Venture, or even hinted at it. As a now former Yamaha customer I resent the hell out of that. Why did it have to be a big secret grand unveiling, we're all.grown ups, not children on Xmas morning. ****ing talk to your customers Yamaha, no more secrecy and games. Just tell us whats happening, we're grown men and women and we can handle it. Dicks.

 

Im not sure why Im ranting at them, they sure didnt listen before and I dont think tbey are going to start now. On the other hand whoever here buys one, still love ya bro/sis.

[RSTDdog]

I think belts are fine. The New Venture has belt drive because it is based significantly on the Stratoliner greatly reducing tooling costs by using parts already in the bin. Its also lighter cheaper and pretty darn reliable. You can see the difference in retail price between air cooled Vtwin belt drive and Liquid cooled V4 Shaft Drive. Simply go to yamaha's website, click on the new Venture, hit the compare to link (you can pick up to two), add the Vmax from 2013 and Stratoliner from 2013 (or whatever the last year was). The difference in MSRP for those bikes (Strat and Vmax) which are essentially similar featurewise except for power plant and final drive(Warrior is probably a better comp) will explain why the Vmax motor and shaft drive are not in the new Venture.

[djh3]

I dont dirt track my 800#+ bike so rocks in the belt not likely. Squeaks yea, adjustment keep longevity. Just like changing the gear oil. Pros and cons both ways I guess. I dont have a problem with either one, you just have to know what your getting in for. Shaft has a bit of clunk and slack like in turns when not under power, my belt dont seem to have that issue. I do find it odd the 3rd gen is not water cooled. I would have thought emissions would have driven it that way to get head temps up for emissions. I wonder how hot them cats/exhaust will get. Thats the biggie on the XCT. I have discon the O2 sensors on mine and it seems to help a bit.