The 84 is giving me problems again

[CMCOFFEY]

I try to do something nice for my bike and it slaps me in the face. I was trying to stop a little oil leak and was also going to install my new clutch springs. One of the bolts decided not to cooperate. I drilled out the middle and used an extraction bit and then the extraction bit snapped. Now I cannot drill through the extraction bit. I am current using brand new DeWalt cobalt drill bits. They have dulled pretty fast on the extraction bit.

Has anyone ran into this issue, and do you have a good way to the bolt out? It of course had to be the recessed one.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j169/coffeyR6/84%20Venture/PHOTO_20170604_121241.jpg

 

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j169/coffeyR6/84%20Venture/PHOTO_20170604_121224.jpg

[RDawson]

Can you drill the head of the bolt off? If so you could slip the cover off over it and have access to the bolt. When I can get to the shoulder of a broken bolt I slip a nut over it and weld it. Between the heat and being able to get a socket on it, it may back out. A few hits with a hammer also helps break steel threads out of aluminum.

[Yammer Dan]

Dremel to get head out of way so you can pull cover???

[CMCOFFEY]

I have been trying to drill the head off. It is no longer working. I am wondering if a diamond burr bit or something like that would work. Then I could just Dremel the head off.

[camos]

I have been trying to drill the head off. It is no longer working. I am wondering if a diamond burr bit or something like that would work. Then I could just Dremel the head off.

I was in a similar situation about 35 years ago. Snapped one of the bolts holding the carb on my Jeep. Tried to drill it out with a regular bit which broke. then with a carbide bit that also broke and finally with a diamond bit that also broke. The final solution was to take the manifold to the professionals at a large steel fabrication company. They used what they called a nibbler which I understood to be some kind of electric arc cutter. They successfully cleared the hole without damaging the surrounding casting.

 

The problem with doing this job by hand is the drill bit needs to be in a press so that it does not bounce around and jam.

 

Have you taken the other bolts out? The cover should come off if the broken bolt head has been removed, it then might be possible to remove the broken bolt using a vice grip.

[Flyinfool]

Extraction bits and cobalt drill bits are very hard metal, to cut through them you need something harder. Harder would be a solid carbide drill bit. Ideally if you can get one it should be a left hand drill. Many times while drilling out a bolt with a left hand drill bit I have had the bit catch and the screw comes flying out of the hole. Put the bit as deep into the chuck as you can so there is minimal flex, and have a death grip on the drill while you are drilling the head off so that the the drill can not move around. Carbide does not flex at all, it just breaks. You need to drill it VERY slow but at a high RPM and use lots of cutting oil, any oil is better than dry but cutting oil is better than non cutting oils. If you try to drill to fast you will break the carbide drill as it is bouncing off the jagged edges of the broken bits that are still in the hole. Get a size of spotting drill that will take the head off completely. Then once the bolt head is gone you should be able to get the cover off and out of the way so that you can attack the remainder of the bolt with the methods mentioned above. Either weld on a nut if you have that capability or even just try a vice grips. With the head gone it may come out real easy.

 

If you can get a left hand drill bit that is bigger than the hole you already have in the head, heat the bolt to around 300°F and then drill it with the left hand drill bit. There is a good chance that the screw will be out before you drill the head off.

[BlueSky]

I try to do something nice for my bike and it slaps me in the face. I was trying to stop a little oil leak and was also going to install my new clutch springs. One of the bolts decided not to cooperate. I drilled out the middle and used an extraction bit and then the extraction bit snapped. Now I cannot drill through the extraction bit. I am current using brand new DeWalt cobalt drill bits. They have dulled pretty fast on the extraction bit.

Has anyone ran into this issue, and do you have a good way to the bolt out? It of course had to be the recessed one.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j169/coffeyR6/84%20Venture/PHOTO_20170604_121241.jpg

 

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j169/coffeyR6/84%20Venture/PHOTO_20170604_121224.jpg

 

I hate screw extractors. I think every time I've used one it broke off and as I remember I ended up replacing the part the bolt was stuck in. I hope you can grind the bolt head off!

[Marcarl]

Not much good for you right now, but I have gone to using an impact driver to get those kind of bolts\screws out before I even attempt a hand tool. Save a lot of problems and very seldom does one come loose,,,I mean very seldom!

For this application I would attempt a dremel with a small bit to remove the head, at which point there might be a way to remove the easyout and then the cover will come off. Then things would be somewhat easier.

[CMCOFFEY]

I am going after work today to buy some left handed drill bits and a better rotary tool. I only have the cheep 18K RPM one from Harbor Freight. I will be getting a DeWalt or Dremel that can do 30K+ and deliver a lot of torque. I will finish grinding away the head so I can remove the cover. Should be easier after that.

[Dragonslayer]

Extraction bits and cobalt drill bits are very hard metal, to cut through them you need something harder. Harder would be a solid carbide drill bit. Ideally if you can get one it should be a left hand drill. Many times while drilling out a bolt with a left hand drill bit I have had the bit catch and the screw comes flying out of the hole. Put the bit as deep into the chuck as you can so there is minimal flex, and have a death grip on the drill while you are drilling the head off so that the the drill can not move around. Carbide does not flex at all, it just breaks. You need to drill it VERY slow but at a high RPM and use lots of cutting oil, any oil is better than dry but cutting oil is better than non cutting oils. If you try to drill to fast you will break the carbide drill as it is bouncing off the jagged edges of the broken bits that are still in the hole. Get a size of spotting drill that will take the head off completely. Then once the bolt head is gone you should be able to get the cover off and out of the way so that you can attack the remainder of the bolt with the methods mentioned above. Either weld on a nut if you have that capability or even just try a vice grips. With the head gone it may come out real easy.

 

If you can get a left hand drill bit that is bigger than the hole you already have in the head, heat the bolt to around 300°F and then drill it with the left hand drill bit. There is a good chance that the screw will be out before you drill the head off.

This all sounds like very good and accurate advice..... it also sounds like a major PITA and I am also very sorry to say that this really must sux for you. Good luck and I glad it is not happening to me.

[CMCOFFEY]

I got that bolt head ground completely off, and then had another really stuck bolt on the cover to the rear of the stator cover. I was able to easily Dremel it off. What is the name of that cover, I need to buy a new gasket.

 

Next question, should I buy all new gaskets, use gasket maker, or cut my own gaskets. All the ones on eBay look like someone bought a roll of gasket material and cut them.

 

The other side (clutch basket) was cake, all the bolts came out. The bottom few took a lot of torque and sounded like a .22 Cal going off when they broke loose, but they did come off.

[Marcarl]

I got that bolt head ground completely off, and then had another really stuck bolt on the cover to the rear of the stator cover. I was able to easily Dremel it off. What is the name of that cover, I need to buy a new gasket.

 

Next question, should I buy all new gaskets, use gasket maker, or cut my own gaskets. All the ones on eBay look like someone bought a roll of gasket material and cut them.

 

The other side (clutch basket) was cake, all the bolts came out. The bottom few took a lot of torque and sounded like a .22 Cal going off when they broke loose, but they did come off.

That cover is the 'middle gear cover'.

You will need a gasket for the starter cover, it gives clearance to the starter drive shafts. For the other 2 you can get away with gasket maker but use it very sparingly, you don't want that stuff moving around inside the engine, and make sure the surfaces are absolutely clean with brake clean or they will leak.

Best get yourself an impact driver, once you get used to it, it'll be your goto tool.

[BlueSky]

I bought my first bike in 1971. Almost immediately afterwards I bought a Sears impact driver that I still revere. Recently, I bought JIS 5/16" shank bits for it from Vessel Tools. Priceless tool!

[RDawson]

I use a 3/8 drive hex bit, smack it a couple times with a hammer before I turn the bolts. The shock helps break the bond between the steel bolt and aluminum case. Installed new starter clutch and drive clutch recently on my 86 with no issues on the bolts. Just a trick I learned years ago on car transmissions.

[cowpuc]

Just got in from the unveiling in NY Coff - sounds like you got things under control = hope its all going smoother for you now = got EXCELLENT advice as always happening here!!

Those little hand held impacts are awesome little tools.. Also have successfully used a very small brazing tip on the torch = heat up the bolt when stuck, helps to break it loose.

[CMCOFFEY]

This little problem may have created a monster. I went to go get bolts to replace the 3 that were messed up and they only had black oxide bolts. So I got enough to replace all the side engine cover bolts so they would match. Then I dug through all my other bolts and screws and replaced all the ones that were slightly messed up, rusty or marred.

 

Unfortunately I cannot find replacements for the windshield trim screws. Does anyone know where I can order those screws from?

[snyper316]

This little problem may have created a monster. I went to go get bolts to replace the 3 that were messed up and they only had black oxide bolts. So I got enough to replace all the side engine cover bolts so they would match. Then I dug through all my other bolts and screws and replaced all the ones that were slightly messed up, rusty or marred.

 

Unfortunately I cannot find replacements for the windshield trim screws. Does anyone know where I can order those screws from?

 

How many do you need and are they the silver ones that have fat right under the head and small threads just below?

[BlueSky]

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1984/XVZ12DL/FAIRING+2/parts.html

 

Looks like partzilla has them.

 

Member crue69 has a 89 parts bike. You can PM him and see if he has them. Check partzilla for both years and see if they have the same part number

[snyper316]

I am pretty sure I have some of those.... I will go check

[snyper316]

I have 3 of those screws, 2 used and 1 new....

[CMCOFFEY]

Thanks snyper and Bluesky, I just ordered 4 new ones from the link.

[snyper316]

Thanks snyper and Bluesky, I just ordered 4 new ones from the link.

 

expensive little boogers, I wonder if they are back ordered this time. When I ordered mine they said 2 weeks back order the following week I got them so was expecting 3 week wait got them in 2. first time I ever paid 30bux for 4 screws lol....

[CMCOFFEY]

Yeah, the price was a bit to swallow, but my other ones are really bad. I bought 30+ other bolts,screws, and washers for $10 less than what I just spent on 4 screws. Oh well, I love that bike and will buy her anything.

[RSTDdog]

If you are going to use a gasket sealant only, I would recommend using Yamabond 4 (gray in color) or it's equivalent, NOT silicone based RTV from the auto parts store. Yamabond 4 was originally developed for sealing crankcase halves on two stroke bikes, stands up to oil, gasoline heat etc. If any leaches when you squeeze the mating surfaces together, it doesn't make little beads of sealant that can break off like Silicone RTV. Anything excess that leaches self levels and bonds to the surfaces. Whenever you buy OEM gaskets from yamaha and you see that bead of gray sealant preapplied to the gasket- thats Yamabond. If the OEM gaskets are still available, I would buy and use those.

 

Also if you have a good Ace hardware store, one of the ones in our market has nice selection of fasteners for motorcycles including chrome finished allen head fasteners. Another good source for quality fasteners is McMaster Carr. Lowe's, Home Depot and Ace are stupid expensive compared to McMaster Carr. They have several distribution Centers. There is one in Atlanta, so for me in Florida its always 1-2 day shipping via ground.

Edited June 12, 2017 by RSTDdog