Signal Fuse - Ain't we got fun!

[videoarizona]

Left at O-dark 30 this morning for another run to Phoenix on the RSV. Got about 40 miles away from home and there is a "pop" in the audio and the dash dies, the motor hiccups, the cruise goes out and I'm stunned. Of course I slam on brakes to try and make the exit that is flying by at 75mph and the rear locks up. Guess when you guys say the rear locks easy, you aren't fooling! I let off the brake just as the rear started skidding out...and managed to recover and coasted off the freeway....stopped...motor running sweetly but dash gone. When I could breathe again, I checked the bike over. Motor still running fine, headlights, running lights and tail lights working fine. No horn, cruise, dash lights, speedo, brake lights or turn signals. Get back on road and take next exit. Gas up and pull over to check out fuses. Sure enough, the signal fuse is gone.

 

Everything else looks fine. So I put another fuse in, she starts up and everything works. OK...guessing that fuse just wanted to commit hari kari, I got back on the road. About 3 minutes later, fuse blows again. I turn around and go back home. Fun..going through what is now morning rush hour traffic on I-10 in Tucson with no signals, horn, etc..

 

On a side note: The cruise lights are giving me 2 blinks then 3 blinks...but with the fuse blown, that may be correct. No fuse installed could simulate a brake/clutch switch being bad. Also, about half way home the engine light came on. No warning or blinks...just came on. At home, when I turned on ignition to start the auto self-check feature...no blinks on the engine light. Without the signal fuse in, she starts and runs fine, good charging and no engine light at all now. Interesting that all of this could be related to a short in the signal system somewhere...

 

Got home and pulled the book...then saw a note about Seaking having the same problem. So I have been searching the forum and writing down every instance of a blown signal fuse and what was found to be the cause. I won't have time today to tear the scoot apart but when I do come back, I'll do so and let everyone know what caused my issue to add to the database.

 

The 89 Blue Beastie is going to stretch her legs tonight going up to Phoenix!

Edited June 1, 2017 by videoarizona
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[utadventure]

The 89 Blue Beastie is going to stretch her legs tonight going up to Phoenix!

 

 

Good luck with the diagnosis. The Blue Beastie is going to enjoy the run!!

[VanRiver]

Hey @videoarizona glad you are safe and sound.....always scary when all goes dark on the bike while zooming down the highway. Hope you find the issue!

[bongobobny]

Yup, that "Brown" signal line goes to a whole bunch of places!! Could be some kind of intermittent short on your brake light switch, the horn circuit, dash lights etc, etc, etc!!!

[Flyinfool]

When trouble shooting problems like this it is helpful to get a resettable circuit breaker to replace the fuse. this way you can just push a button to get the power back on to continue the process and not create a mountain of blown fuses. Once you have it fixed, take out the circuit breaker and put the proper fuse back in, fuses ae more reliable than circuit breakers.

 

Just resist the temptation to hold the button on the breaker or to put in a bigger fuse to see where the smoke is coming from. I have seen first hand where flames were the first indication of the location of the problem.

[N3FOL]

That was not fun at all after loosing all lights on your dash and most importantly all turn signals are not working. At any rate, it may be a case of a wire being kinked and pressed unto something that is causing the fuse to blow prematurely. Hoping you can find the problem soon.

[Yammer Dan]

Old 56 Pan Chopper had a headlight and a taillight.......

[videoarizona]

Old 56 Pan Chopper had a headlight and a taillight.......

 

The good olde days!

[videoarizona]

Update:

 

Finally got home today.

 

Took the seats off and looked at the adapters/connectors and such that was under them. I ordered the connectors from Steve here on the site and added them to the rear in case I ever add a hitch and then in the front as well under the fairing where I wired in the LED reflector lights as running/turn lights.

 

Everything fine there...

 

The left front LED reflector light wasn't working so I took the fairing off and was poking around and found one connector had pulled out and it was the hot lead for the led reflector light!! Crossing fingers that was it, I plugged it back in, tie-tied it in place just in case it comes out again, and fired up the bike. Ran for about 5 minutes, testing turn signals, brakes front and rear and all together. Fuse didn't blow.

 

Decided to rebuild a tab on the plastic chrome strip for the windshield....so tomorrow I'll test again and then put back together. Maybe grab a quick ride before it gets to hot just to make sure that was the problem.

 

Thankfully...it was a little thing! (hopefully)

 

[bongobobny]

Hope that fixes you up Vid! A word to the wise with male/female connectors like that, the female should always carry the source voltage and the male always the load so if they do come unplugged, it is less likely for the 12 volts to get shorted to ground...

[videoarizona]

Update:

 

The above didn't fix the blowing fuse issue but did fix the LED marker light not working properly!

Back in town and will dig in some more.

Last week, I did retrace lots of connections, finding nothing. So guess I'll take the fairing off and start all over. I'm getting to be an expert at removing the front fairing....guess that's a good thing. Maybe I should add some driving lights too while I'm in there!

 

I'll follow up when I get this sorted out....

[videoarizona]

Update:

 

Nothing. Nada. No joy. Can't for the life of me repeat yesterdays tracing that blew the signal fuse and the main fuse.

I bought 2 circuit breakers, 15amp and 30 amp to replace the fuses so I could continue to trace. They self set after a few seconds when short goes away. Kinda cool actually. Saves me the time and trouble to sit my butt down and replace fuses....

 

So starting at the front:

 

 

Checked out everything around the headlight where I was fumbling around with my hands installing the LED bulb. Even checked the speedo area...nothing.

 

Then...

 

checked the adapters to make sure I didn't screw that up while playing around with the headlight. All looks good here.

 

Then...

 

Checked the wiring around the 12 volt accessory outlet where PO had done some stuff. That was good as well as my power supply for XM.

 

So...

 

Moved on under the tank. Pulled out the ignition switch bypass relay and wiring. Looks good there too. But went ahead and taped wherever the brown wire went.

 

 

 

Next...moved down to the battery area where I connected up the LED reflector lights and set myself up for towing a trailer with extra connectors...maybe someday. I also checked the battery connections, cleaned and tightened them up while I was there.

 

 

Pulled everything out....taped up anything that even looked strange....but nothing blew the breakers despite my wiggling. This is where I was beating up yesterday and blew both fuses. Maybe I fixed that problem. Who knows?

 

So moved on to the rear end...

 

 

Looked everywhere. Checked my LED wiring, the LED tail strip, the bulbs in the tail signals, the brake light, the HD bracket run/stop lights. Nothing would short out the signal system. During all these tests, I left the ignition on with the emergency blinkers on to load up the signal system so I would know when the fuse blew.

 

So came back to the main fuse area....

 

 

You can see the light colored circuit breaker in the signal fuse slot and to the right, the green thingie is the main circuit breaker in the main fuse slot. Wiggled and moved everything, including PO's wiring underneath and my plug and play wiring for the speedo correction circuit board...nothing.

 

Frustrated as the signal system seems to be intact with no shorts.

 

I really don't want to put her back together and go for a ride, only to have the signal fuse blow again...meaning I haven't found anything. Right now she runs for a long time in the garage with no fuse issues....just like when I was on the road. It was only when I got back on the road did the fuse blow. BUT...I've wiggled, jiggled and yanked on anything and everything I can see...including the horns down below.

 

The only thing I haven't done is take apart the switches on the handlebars. I really don't think that's the problem as I only read about one person, after all these years, having a factory wire pinched in the handlebars.... so that is such a long shot....I'm leaving that out for now...

 

So I'm asking the collective great minds....what have I missed?

TIA...

david

Edited June 16, 2017 by videoarizona

[Flyinfool]

One thing different in all of these tests is that the engine was not running? It might be a function of the vibration and/or the slightly higher charging voltage??????? Just a WAG at this point.

 

One thing with the circuit breakers, like a fuse they will trip instantly on a direct short. But the circuit breakers are more like a slow blow fuse, there is a delay where they will not trip right away during a mild overload condition, where a fuse would still pop fairly quick. Just another element to keep in mind.

 

Can you post a good close up pic of one of the blown fuses, Sometimes you can tell if it was blown from a short or an overload by the way the element melted. A short will just about vaporize the element where a slight overload will just melt it.

[videoarizona]

Jeff,

 

Here ya go:

 

 

Same signal fuse. 15 amp. Both sides.

[vzuden]

You didn't mention it so I will ask...did you really close at the steering neck area? This is a very common place for pinched and shorted wiring

[videoarizona]

You didn't mention it so I will ask...did you really close at the steering neck area? This is a very common place for pinched and shorted wiring

 

 

Gary, I thought I did. I'll go back out and look around again! Thanks.

 

Update:

 

Went out and looked over the neck area again. Nothing stands out as looking like it's rubbing.

 

Did another walk through everything from front to back. Found one little wire from LED right side rear...marker light conversion...that "might" have been crimped by the right side panel covering the relays. I put some tape around it...taped it again along it's length then put some epoxy/tape on edge of panel. Since this is the lower end that I can't see, I'm ok with that as it's a tight fit between the edge of the panel and the wires. And the edge of the panel isn't dull by any means. It is now for about an inch! I also taped the wires hanging down from where I bypassed the right side horn to trigger the relay for the Stebel. The bunch were to close to the exhaust cover...and that's metal and hot. So they are tie tied up and taped.

 

Bottom line: She's back together. As soon as sun goes down...I'll take a ride around neighborhood. We shall see....at least I got a chance to clean the insides better and check on nuts and bolts. Always a good reason to poke around on a scoot. OH...found my long lost seat bolt. It just fell out while I was taping the horn wires. Funny how far away that bolt was from the seat and never fell out in hundreds of miles of roads!! Maybe putting a lanyard on those bolts is a good idea afterall!!

Edited June 15, 2017 by videoarizona

[videoarizona]

Final report, hopefully.

 

She runs.

 

Have no clue what I did yesterday in my taping up everything I could find that might cause a problem. But I must have caught the culprit. Ran 20 miles this morning. On the access roads that are really bumpy to the freeway at 75 with cruise. No hiccups.

 

So, apologies...I can't say what was causing the problem. Nothing really stood out for shorts, crimped or broken insulation at any wires. There were some questionable but if I didn't have the problem, I wouldn't have taped them to begin with.

 

Crossing fingers this problem is history....

 

Now off to store to buy some fast curing JB Weld. Seems I broke a speaker lead off the speaker in the left front while I was pushing, shoving and yanking on wires yesterday.

Little phenolic board broke right off speaker frame.

 

Makes me wonder what else I did? Grins! Guess I WILL find out!