Apparently I've developed many bad habits over the years

[snyper316]

Sorry T, I don't see why drivers should need to be re-tested. Though I was at 53 (the examiner actually complimented me on my observation & awareness)

What IS required is driver education, I found it laughable here when suddenly roundabouts started to appear there was NO public education. People were just expected to know what to do. Coming from the UK I have no problem with them but I'm amazed the number of experienced drivers who are absolutely freaked by them..... it's not difficult!

Yield to those already in the roundabout (coming from your left) Do not change lanes in the roundabout, exit from it by signaling right before your exit. It's classed as a rolling right turn. They are far safer than lights or other junctions WHEN PEOPLE ARE EDUCATED IN THEIR USE (& that is what's lacking)

Most people do not see driving as a SKILL to be mastered, they see it as the quickest way from A to B.

How many drivers will pick up a driving manual, "highway code" or similar once they have passed their test?.. very few. As motorcycle riders we more than anyone should be doing it often, to be up to date with these changes.

Huh yield? I thought you drove out in them and went in circles. I kid you not the first time I seen one I literally had no clue. Another one that got me is this new diamond thing in Joplin you literally swap sides of the road. Which I didn't realize and I still get fumbled up on it specially coming off interstate.

 

"Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly."

[SilvrT]

Sorry T, I don't see why drivers should need to be re-tested.

What IS required is driver education,

 

No need to be "sorry" if you don't agree. That's your right and I don't fault you for that; however, ....

 

During testing (or re-testing for that matter), education precludes a test.

 

We have to renew our D/L every 5 years. I firmly believe everyone should have to be "re-educated" at that time or at least every 10 years. And that is followed by a road test to ensure the "education" they received is put into practise. I've felt this way for the better part of 40 years and I'll always feel that way.

 

Like me, drivers develop "bad habits" over the years. All one has to do is observe other drivers under various conditions to know that. Additionally, there are many people coming into our country from other places and some of those places have virtually NO "rules of the road". Those people bring with them driving habits that just don't apply here. Sure, they can go get a BC license but that isn't sufficient to break them of their habits. Once they've passed their test, they will slowly fall back into many of those "driving habits" that just don't conform to what is correct here.

 

I'm not disputing anyone's feelings about education but let's face it, as the old saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink", which means you can throw as much education you want at people but it doesn't ensure they will put it into practise. Just take a look at the drug problem today. The "powers that be" keep saying education is what is needed so they go gung-ho on it but is it working? The statistics seem to show not. Where the education of that is working is with all the people who are trying to deal with the suppression of the problem and those who have to provide support to those who are taking the drugs. Take smoking as another example. How many years of education has it taken to get people to stop? Was education the only thing... NO. They taxed and taxed and taxed tobacco. Then they slowly prevented smokers from smoking in various places where today, one can hardly smoke anywhere in public anymore. And there are all kinds of guvmint supported "stop smoking" programs. So how does that relate to driver re-testing you wonder? Well think about it. Education wasn't working all by itself so people had to conform to "rules".

 

Now here's another reason why people should be re-tested. Eyesight. When you go to get a D/L, your eye sight is tested. If a person is never re-tested, how does anyone know that after 10, 20, or even 50 years a person's eyesight hasn't diminished to a point where driving without corrective lenses is putting them and others in danger.

 

I could probably go on and on about this because as it's obvious, I am quite adamant about it, but I'll stop here.

[camos]

Ever since I can remember, the white line is where your front wheels should stop at....

 

I even got dinged for not doing a left shoulder check when moving left into a left turn lane from a left through lane. I mean, some old lady might have come whizzing up the median in her rocking chair ....

 

Pretty sure it has always been the rule that a vehicle must be behind the white line. This is a good example of how peoples perceptions or misconceptions over time can affect the way they drive. A refresher course every so often will help correct those.

 

A left shoulder check when changing lanes to the left is just as much of a necessity as changing lanes to the right. Just the other day I was riding beside a car, about even with the front seats, there was no traffic to speak of and the car started moving into my lane. A honk corrected it but by the time it was over, they had gotten half way into my lane. Obviously did not look.

 

There is a road I often travel that has two left turn lanes and one through lane. For some reason the left side left turn lane does not fill up as fast as the right side left turn lane. It is not unusual for a stopped vehicle in the right side lane to change into the left side lane. Without a shoulder check first, that can be a problem for any vehicle coming down the left side lane, particularly a MC.

 

Sorry T, I don't see why drivers should need to be re-tested......

 

Most people do not see driving as a SKILL to be mastered, they see it as the quickest way from A to B.

How many drivers will pick up a driving manual, "highway code" or similar once they have passed their test?.. very few.

You answered your own question as to why re-testing should be required on some regular schedule. Riders, the ones who survive, are very focused on traffic and doing things safely which for the most part include following the best practices that are taught in a road test.

 

Huh yield? I thought you drove out in them and went in circles. I kid you not the first time I seen one I literally had no clue. Another one that got me is this new diamond thing in Joplin you literally swap sides of the road. Which I didn't realize and I still get fumbled up on it specially coming off interstate.

 

"Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly."

Yuppers, and you can go around as many times as you want, or that it takes, for you to figure out where your exit is. We have quite a few roundabouts in our area. Three of them near where I work. Two of them are classic circular roundabouts but one is an abortion of several circles combined. That one is just horrible, mostly due to too many signs too close together to see which circle they are actually part of. What's a diamond thing? Never heard of it.

 

I could probably go on and on about this because as it's obvious, I am quite adamant about it,...

Me too.

I remember when my boys were young, I would have a running commentary on driver's mistakes. My wife often got annoyed with me, probably because she was a lousy driver. In any case, both my boys are what I would call good drivers. I like to think it was at least partly due to the "education" they received when they were young.

[snyper316]

What's a diamond thing? Never heard of it.

 

It is this cluster. &:#!

 

"Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly."

[snyper316]

I will say both are fun on a bike!! I have been known to hold left about 2-4 times just for the fun of it on roundabouts... These crazy things they say 20 and tinkers speed says 45-50 in second its a blast as long as you don't have people coming at you head on which I have done twice myself when these are in places that they didmt used to be!!! At 3 in da morning....

 

"Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly."

[camos]

It is this cluster. &:#!

Huh....wow!!! Looked at it for a while but could not see any advantage to it. Must have missed something. Removes a left turn light but still got the crossing lights so looks pointless to me. The common cloverleaf seems to be a better idea. Perhaps it takes less space but not much.

 

Thanks for the enlightenment.

[snyper316]

Huh....wow!!! Looked at it for a while but could not see any advantage to it. Must have missed something. Removes a left turn light but still got the crossing lights so looks pointless to me. The common cloverleaf seems to be a better idea. Perhaps it takes less space but not much.

 

Thanks for the enlightenment.

Ha very funny that you mention that they removed a clover leaf to put that stupid cluster in!!!

 

"Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly."

[snyper316]

Also the other one I was talking about is in Springfield I believe it's Kansas City Expressway right off I-44 and go look at that one on Google Earth they make no sense.

 

"Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly."

[Sailor]

I have rented cars in England many times. I am convinced the drivers in Cornwall down a pot of black coffee and a half dozen amphetamines before hitting the road.

Once I went over with family so I rented a "people mover", mini van to us. It was a diesel powered Peugeot. I was following my cousin from the airport to her place. She was driving a turbo wagon. I had trouble keeping up. She was zig zagging through traffic and I was cutting people off trying to keep up in the under powered van. We hit a round about. She went around at full speed and missed her turn so went around again. I was following with the pedal to the metal and all tires screaming. All I could think of was " I hope they think we are filming the chase scene out of a movie".

[SilvrT]

Pretty sure it has always been the rule that a vehicle must be behind the white line.

 

As I recall, the white line was, at least at one time, put there as a marker so that people knew where the front tires should either STOP AT or before. So, if your front wheels are stopped before the white line, are you behind the white line? That said, and as I've said above, things change over time and only education AND re-testing can sometimes correct what a person thought was correct.

A left shoulder check when changing lanes to the left is just as much of a necessity as changing lanes to the right.

 

I agree; however, when already in the LEFT lane and moving over to the LEFT TURN lane .... what are you checking for? If there was anything or anyone there, you would have seen it/them as you passed by. Besides, with my huge truck mirrors and huge convex truck mirrors, I can see pretty much anything that is either beside me or behind me and by the time I'm moving over to that left turn lane, I've already ensured it's clear to do so without shoulder checking. Now, if I was stopped in traffic, I might then left shoulder check.

 

Now, if I'm gonna merge from the right lane to the left lane THEN I either do a left shoulder check OR, I'll monitor the traffic via my mirrors for a ways before merging and only move over when I'm certain it's clear. When I know for a FACT it's clear, I see no reason to shoulder check.

[SilvrT]

Here's a good example of rules changing over the years.

 

When I got my D/L way back in 1964, I was taught that "passing someone on the road shoulder was illegal". I asked Nina about this and that's what she recalls also.

 

Here's today's rule ...

When a white solid line separates the through lane from the road shoulder, drivers are not permitted to pass other traffic on the right. Where no such white solid line exists, separating through traffic from the road shoulder, all traffic is legally permitted to pass on the right, if obstructed or delayed by a left turning vehicle, provided it does not leave the normal paved portion of the road. It is legal but unsafe, except at a greatly reduced speed.

Did you know this? I didn't.

 

Did you also know that, although not a safe practise, it is NOT illegal to change lanes in an intersection? I didn't. I always thought it was illegal.

 

This information is taken from drive.ca

 

[snyper316]

Here's a good example of rules changing over the years.

 

When I got my D/L way back in 1964, I was taught that "passing someone on the road shoulder was illegal". I asked Nina about this and that's what she recalls also.

 

Here's today's rule ...

When a white solid line separates the through lane from the road shoulder, drivers are not permitted to pass other traffic on the right. Where no such white solid line exists, separating through traffic from the road shoulder, all traffic is legally permitted to pass on the right, if obstructed or delayed by a left turning vehicle, provided it does not leave the normal paved portion of the road. It is legal but unsafe, except at a greatly reduced speed.

Did you know this? I didn't.

 

Did you also know that, although not a safe practise, it is NOT illegal to change lanes in an intersection? I didn't. I always thought it was illegal.

 

This information is taken from drive.ca

 

 

:yikes::yikes:

That is all!! I wonder about a car length for every 5 miles of speed? Is this no longer a requirement because never fails when I am going 70 I bet the person behind me is less then that required 7 car lengths they might be 1.2 car lengths sometimes I cant see there headlights.... I usually slow down to the speed appropriate for the space they are giving... That is scary that it is legal to pass on the shoulder, I don't know here in Missouri, Maybe I should go to DMV and get me one of them books...

[camos]

I agree; however, when already in the LEFT lane and moving over to the LEFT TURN lane .... what are you checking for? If there was anything or anyone there, you would have seen it/them as you passed by. Besides, with my huge truck mirrors and huge convex truck mirrors, I can see pretty much anything that is either beside me or behind me and by the time I'm moving over to that left turn lane, I've already ensured it's clear to do so without shoulder checking. Now, if I was stopped in traffic, I might then left shoulder check.

It's not so much about vehicles that are already stopped, more for any vehicles that might be coming behind you in the left turn lane. The other thing is seeing if anyone is beside you or behind you "by the time" you move over could easily be too late. As for your mirrors relieving you of the necessity to shoulder check, if they are properly set up, I agree. The thing is, for the purpose of a test you must demonstrate that you checked. The examiner doesn't know if your mirrors are properly set up. For that matter, probably 80% of drivers don't know how to adjust the mirrors so there is no blind spot.

 

I had a similar thing happen when I took my MC road test. Stopped at an intersection about four feet outside the stop sign. Got dinged for not making a right shoulder check for a cyclist. Did look over to the right mirror but that wasn't considered good enough. In fact I could see to the right of me in my peripheral vision and to the rear in the mirror. Be that as it may, I did not demonstrate a proper look to the examiner.

 

Now, if I'm gonna merge from the right lane to the left lane THEN I either do a left shoulder check OR, I'll monitor the traffic via my mirrors for a ways before merging and only move over when I'm certain it's clear. When I know for a FACT it's clear, I see no reason to shoulder check.

Can't see the difference between merging from the right lane into the left lane and merging from the left lane into the turn lane. Both require a shoulder check or, in practice, good mirrors and the requisite attention to know the lane is clear. Unfortunately neither of those conditions are adequate during a road test.

[Flyinfool]

Whether merging left or right the rules say you must be sure nothing is there, the ONLY way an examiner can know if you checked is if you turn your head to look. When taking a test you will be tested to the letter of the law, logic, common sense, and accepted customs, and long held habits will get written up every time. They need to know that you know how it is supposed to be done, even if there are other ways to get it done. If you for some reason need to do something other than the letter of the law, then explain what you are doing and why so that the examiner knows you have done what is necessary.

 

As for merging from the left lane into the left turn lane, it was just 2 weeks ago that a woman in an SUV pulled up onto the median AND had to drive up and over the curbs of the median to get to the left turn lane ahead of me, It was only my reflex look over the shoulder that caught her. Yes I have a full size truck with huge mirrors that are adjusted for maximum visibility. That is no different that coming up to a one way street, I still look both ways, it is amazing how many people go the wrong way on a one way street. People do all kinds of stupid things, you have to be looking for the unexpected. I would much rather stop and wait for the idiot than to deal with the aftermath of the crash, even if I know I am in the right.

 

As for passing on the right, back 40 some years ago I was taught that you can pass on the right for a left turning car ONLY if you can keep all 4 tires on pavement. Gravel shoulder you can not pass. Even though everyone else does. I have seen one idiot pass a school bus with flashing red lights by running down the gravel shoulder. All I could do was cringe and hope all the kids were on the bus before he got there.

 

I was taught way back when that all of your car must be behind the big white line at an intersection, If you look you will see that the center line of the road starts and ends at that white stop line. Sometimes that line is set back or angled because left turning traffic needs that space to safely make the turn, if the front of your car is hanging out there, there is less room to make a safe turn. If that rule was changed, it happened more than 40 years ago.

[SilvrT]

As for merging from the left lane into the left turn lane, it was just 2 weeks ago that a woman in an SUV pulled up onto the median AND had to drive up and over the curbs of the median to get to the left turn lane ahead of me,

 

Were you rolling with the traffic flow or stopped?

[Flyinfool]

Were you rolling with the traffic flow or stopped?

 

Rolling with traffic at posted speed limit + 5, 50 MPH