Blown new fork seal, fresh rebuild, metal shavings.

[videoarizona]

Casey,

Another thought. Last month I took both bikes out for a 125 mile run. Same run. It consists of about 25 miles of 75mph, 75 miles of 55mph and 25 of 50 mph or less.

 

On both bikes I used 5th gear only on the interstate portion. 4th was goto gear for rest of trip. I got 41 mpg on the 89VR and 39 mpg on the 05 RSV. The times before that on that same run using 5th gear all the time netted 37 and 35 respectively. Altitude from 3k to 5k and back.

 

This past sunday with the RSV, on one stretch of our day trip, I went almost 100 miles, 2up, climbing into the mountains and got 39mpg at 55 mph.

I stayed in 4th gear most of that stretch too! (when I wasn't in 3rd!)

 

It pays to let the motors rev....

[CaseyJ955]

Hijack away, it's all good, I think I sort of hijacked it first so please, let it go where it may, it's all good I may learn something haha.

 

With all that 2-up riding and great mileage I should expect something more. I'm really not flogging it. I'm finding 5th gear is really only good after 60-65, other than that I feel like I'm lugging it a little. It's strange to have a bike that I'm not always looking for another gear once I reach speed. In 4th and 5th gears it feels better if I keep it above 3500.

[Flyinfool]

You can always do a quick test to see if you are in the correct gear for the conditions at the moment.

 

Slide your throttle hand up so that you are gripping the throttle and the parts in front of it so that you do not subconsciously adjust the throttle. While cruising at a steady speed. shift up or down a gear. If the bike speeds up then you were in the wrong gear for the conditions. It can be hard to wrap your head around the fact that often a lower gear and the higher RPM will allow you to close the throttle slightly and get better gas mileage. But it really does work that way. around 4,000 RPM seems to be the sweat spot. Sometimes it means riding around town in second gear. It is nice to get into the higher gears to make the bike more quiet. but then you loose the option of instant acceleration to get out of the way and you may be paying for that quiet with more gas.

[CaseyJ955]

You can always do a quick test to see if you are in the correct gear for the conditions at the moment.

 

Slide your throttle hand up so that you are gripping the throttle and the parts in front of it so that you do not subconsciously adjust the throttle. While cruising at a steady speed. shift up or down a gear. If the bike speeds up then you were in the wrong gear for the conditions. It can be hard to wrap your head around the fact that often a lower gear and the higher RPM will allow you to close the throttle slightly and get better gas mileage. But it really does work that way. around 4,000 RPM seems to be the sweat spot. Sometimes it means riding around town in second gear. It is nice to get into the higher gears to make the bike more quiet. but then you loose the option of instant acceleration to get out of the way and you may be paying for that quiet with more gas.

 

I figured if I could bump the throttle and the bike lunges forward with no fuss then it probably aint lugging, but I think you make a good point on RPM for best mileage. I'll bet if the needles are behaving correctly then it would be possible to get decent MPG. I know on a stock Vmax the needles will start to come in at around 4k with cruising speeds, I think the Venture is about the same judging by feel. I sent Skydoc a message about his system to move the needles in and I'll probably go that route after I understand how it works, his price is quite fair.

 

One other thing I didnt really think of until now is the bike is a CA bike somehow, it has that charcoal canister and the vent solenoid. I'm not directly seeing how that can degrade MPG if the bowls are still venting but I think it's time to remove all that junk from the equation in the event it's playing a role in the poor MPG, which existed before COPs and Ignitek. Does anyone have a pic of the 49 state carb vents? I htink it's just the 4 tubes running up along side the airbox and ending in clips somewhere or will I need one of these. This is off a 1200 but is this what I need for my 1300 or can I do it like the Vmax and just run the hoses up and secure them somewhere? It's time to decalifornicate this machine. http://www.ebay.com/itm/XVZ-1200-VENTURE-BREATHER-BLOW-BY-VENTS-YAMAHA-ROYALE-/172463961778?hash=item2827a736b2:g:woAAAOSwhQhY5oy4&vxp=mtr

[snyper316]

I figured if I could bump the throttle and the bike lunges forward with no fuss then it probably aint lugging, but I think you make a good point on RPM for best mileage. I'll bet if the needles are behaving correctly then it would be possible to get decent MPG. I know on a stock Vmax the needles will start to come in at around 4k with cruising speeds, I think the Venture is about the same judging by feel. I sent Skydoc a message about his system to move the needles in and I'll probably go that route after I understand how it works, his price is quite fair.

 

One other thing I didnt really think of until now is the bike is a CA bike somehow, it has that charcoal canister and the vent solenoid. I'm not directly seeing how that can degrade MPG if the bowls are still venting but I think it's time to remove all that junk from the equation in the event it's playing a role in the poor MPG, which existed before COPs and Ignitek. Does anyone have a pic of the 49 state carb vents? I htink it's just the 4 tubes running up along side the airbox and ending in clips somewhere or will I need one of these. This is off a 1200 but is this what I need for my 1300 or can I do it like the Vmax and just run the hoses up and secure them somewhere? It's time to decalifornicate this machine. http://www.ebay.com/itm/XVZ-1200-VENTURE-BREATHER-BLOW-BY-VENTS-YAMAHA-ROYALE-/172463961778?hash=item2827a736b2:g:woAAAOSwhQhY5oy4&vxp=mtr

That is the yics chambers on 83-85 ppl either plug the ports or seal it back up but that is the cheapest I have ever seen those.

 

"Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly."

[CaseyJ955]

That is the yics chambers on 83-85 ppl either plug the ports or seal it back up but that is the cheapest I have ever seen those.

 

"Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly."

 

From what I can see it has a broken port. I remember that the 1300 is so amazingly advanced it has no YICS, in all its excellence there is simply no need

 

Actually the bowl vents on this one all merge into a rubber manifold system and one big hose goes out and into that solenoid, then down to the charcoal canister. I want to eliminate that but I have never seen a 49 state bowl vent system. I'm guessing its just as simple as on the Vmax where the tubes all go up high by the airbox and vent to atmosphere. I'm thinking to emulate that system with the one large hose, run it up above the carb level along side the airbox with a basic baffle vented to atmosphere. If there were a bike salvage outfit around here, or any other Venture guys in western SD I could just peek at it and duplicate it.

 

I did hear from Skydoc and his system does move the needles inward so I have that coming, so combined with the air filter and removal of the CA junk I expect I'll see some improvement. At least it should become clear if my efforts are masking another issue or if I have remedied the actual culprit.

[Flyinfool]

I also have a California version, I still get in the 35-40 MPG range depending on how aggressive I am riding. If I behave a bit I have no problem getting 40 MPG. So I do not think it is the Cali junk causing the problem ASSUMING it is all working correctly. I do want to eliminate all that junk just to clean things up.

[CaseyJ955]

I also have a California version, I still get in the 35-40 MPG range depending on how aggressive I am riding. If I behave a bit I have no problem getting 40 MPG. So I do not think it is the Cali junk causing the problem ASSUMING it is all working correctly. I do want to eliminate all that junk just to clean things up.

 

I think it's a good idea. I remember a thread not long ago where a guy was having some trouble with that CA setup, thats when I realized mine was a CA setup. Might as well shed the weight and extra opportunity for mechanical failure. I think it's working correctly and I dont think it's causing any significant MPG loss, but I dont know it for a fact. I'm doing this as soon as my K&N and the goodies from Skydoc get here. If all thise fails to get me close to 40 then I'll be looking at spark timing and advance curve within the Ignitek.

 

Is this bowl vent/charcoal canister the only difference with a CA bike or are there some other performance robbing CA specific things I should be concerned with?

Edited April 25, 2017 by CaseyJ955

[Flyinfool]

As far as I know the only thing different on a CA bike is the canister and its associated plumbing and hardware. TCI is the same P/N so it should not be programed any different.

[CaseyJ955]

As far as I know the only thing different on a CA bike is the canister and its associated plumbing and hardware. TCI is the same P/N so it should not be programed any different.

 

I have the Ignitek so looking inside and making changes is possible, I have little experience with this so I'm hoping it doesnt come to that. The Ignitek map I'm using was made for the Venture so I'm guessing that some of these other changes may make a decent difference.

[CaseyJ955]

Ok, we're there.

 

Ride 1. I used Skydocs shim mod that lowers the needles an additional 0.020" inward, rode. Noticed more poke, from 2200 in 4th gear on level ground she muscles forward like never before, noticably better midrange, it gathers speed better from around 3500 on and reaches for the readline with more urgency. So to Skydoc and a big thank you! This got me from a 5 to an 8 on the appreciation scale, clear indisputable difference.

 

Ride 2. Same as ride 1 but replaced the paper filter with the K&N. Not nearly as noticeable as the shims but it did give me a little something from around 3k - redline. I did notice a very slight improvement in midrange poke and it feels like it's breathing better as it reaches redline. This takes me from 8 to 8.5 on the appreciation scale.

 

I was expecting some low end problems with the K&N and when I was coming back in and 1st gear down my driveway I could hear some popping through the exhaust as I decelerated and at idle, when I got it parked and leveled it was popping through the exhaust a little bit. This is strange because it is VERY strong right off idle, blip the throttle and the bike lunges forward in first. It did cough once when I did that. Once I got the bike level I found that I could make the popping go away by turning out the left rear AF screw 5 turns, whereas before they all settled at 1-7/8. I pulled it apart for a shotgun and found a few bits of crud on the needle for that cyl so shotgunnign now. This is probably completely unrelated to the shims or filter.

 

Tomorrow I'll be taking a nice long cruise and see how all this effected the MPG, I mean moving the needles that much HAS to to effect it too some degree. Please note that I'm coming at this bike running to rich so if your already in the 40mpg club than YMMV (pun intended) with these mods. I will finish the shotgun, synch and dial it all back in, button her up and tomorrow I'll take a long ride and see if I'm now part of that elusive 40mpg club. If nothing else I sure picked up some performance!

[Flyinfool]

FWIW I was already in the 40mpg club. Skydoc and I tried the shims and I lost torque. It was fine unloaded and had a lot more pep, but as soon as I connected the trailer, it could not get going, we had to pull the shims back out and it was back to a rocket with the trailer. As said YMMV.

[CaseyJ955]

If your already getting decent MPG than I cant imagine there is much to gain by leaning it out further. I think if I were hitting 40mpg I would be a couple states away instead of messing around with the carbs.

 

The reason I cant even touch 30 has to be a rich mixture, I suspect the skydoc shims are leaning me out and getting me to where you are now. I brought it home and got a top of 25mpg when first purchased. Float adjust, new diaphragms, dialing in, Ignitek and COPs bought me about 5 more mpg, so it did help. Lowering the needles 020" today is a significant step leaner and I would not be surprised if I'm closer to optimum. The assdyno is always subjective there there is no doubt at all that the needle drop gave me a significant boost in low end/mid range torque and some top end too. It digs much deeper and pulls much harder. I could feel the difference immediately.

 

I was planning a long ride tomorrow to check MPG but I have a bowl drain screw O ring leaking, so if I cant get my hands on an O ring that size I'll be stuck until after I get off work next week. The suspense will be quite difficult because I have a 4 state house hunting trip planned for the day after I get off work, I have to know this thing is ready.

[CaseyJ955]

Might as well kick this zombie thread in the pants. I started this when I blew the right fork seal after a fresh rebuild. Just yesterday the left one blew. Freshly rebuilt forks, I'm getting sick of tearing these things apart. I'm going to go make a seal saver out of a coke bottle and try that first. When these things blow they dont just weep, they piss the oil out for real. Man this is frustrating but at least it didnt fail on my last road trip.

[camos]

I'm going to go make a seal saver out of a coke bottle and try that first.

How does that work? Can't imagine a coke bottle being good for anything other than bleeding brake fluid into.

[CaseyJ955]

How does that work? Can't imagine a coke bottle being good for anything other than bleeding brake fluid into.

 

It's quite a bit like a poor mans seal saver. For some reason I suspect it's all coming apart again.

[camos]

It's quite a bit like a poor mans seal saver. For some reason I suspect it's all coming apart again.

So hang a plastic bottle on your forks? You wouldn't do that to your Venture...would you?

 

Put some gaiters/shock boots on, they aren't that expensive. They were OEM on my 90 VR and I put a set on my 89 VR because they are such a good idea.

[cowpuc]

So hang a plastic bottle on your forks? You wouldn't do that to your Venture...would you?

 

Put some gaiters/shock boots on, they aren't that expensive. They were OEM on my 90 VR and I put a set on my 89 VR because they are such a good idea.

 

and here I thought Casey was talking about using the edge of a plastic coke bottle that he had sliced open with a knife to slide down in between the seal and the tube to clean out the garbage in the seal allowing it to seal again.. I have used old 35mm film for this for years and know that a company caught onto that idea and started making a plastic shaped pointed thingy to accomplish the same thing.. Back in my mx days it was very common to clean the seals because of the dirt involved with the sport.. If a person rides a fair amount on the road even bug splatter on the tubes can cause issues..

I can certainly see where fork gators would be the cats meow for extra protection.. Had those for years on the early dirt bikes, later models like my KX500, CR's and stuff we had plastice covers over the front of the forks which served the same purpose (called em fork roost protectors) and did great.. I have a set of roost protectors on my 1st Gen now - get this,, they are even CHROME!! I can see where slicing up a plastic coke bottle and using it for a roost protector could EASILY and fully do the same job with no where near the hassle of rippin the forks down to do gators = maybe Casey and I are related if thats what he is referring to

[camos]

I can see where slicing up a plastic coke bottle and using it for a roost protector could EASILY and fully do the same job with no where near the hassle of rippin the forks down to do gators = maybe Casey and I are related if thats what he is referring to

Somebody on here offered some leather covers that did the job and looked quite nice.

 

If Casey has to replace the seals then he will most likely have the forks apart anyway.

These are the ones I put on my 89. They fit perfectly and I prefer how they look.

[CaseyJ955]

and here I thought Casey was talking about using the edge of a plastic coke bottle that he had sliced open with a knife to slide down in between the seal and the tube to clean out the garbage in the seal allowing it to seal again..

 

Yup, thats what I had in mind. When the other side blew (mind you, with all new OEM parts and very few miles) I tried it unsuccessfully, so not sure it's going to work this time.

 

Somebody on here offered some leather covers that did the job and looked quite nice.

 

If Casey has to replace the seals then he will most likely have the forks apart anyway.

These are the ones I put on my 89. They fit perfectly and I prefer how they look.

 

You guys are awesome, I had quite a chuckle picturing cut up coke bottles serving as fork protectors. I guess duct tape and zip ties would be the finest way to make this dream a reality mwahahahaha. This bike has the chrome shields that hose clamp to the upper tube. I'm going to try the seal saver sweep today and hope it works, not sure whats inside. When the right side blew there were metal shavings inside and I never could figure out where they were coming from. Nothing was scarred or grooved, no signs of contact, the fork compressed and expanded freely with no scuffing or drama. It's a mystery at best. I'm not wanting it to be down for long, the last few weeks of amazing riding season are upon us now, the tourists are mostly gone.

[Du-Rron]

Somebody on here offered some leather covers that did the job and looked quite nice.

 

If Casey has to replace the seals then he will most likely have the forks apart anyway.

These are the ones I put on my 89. They fit perfectly and I prefer how they look.

 

What size are the fork tubes and fork lowers (dust seal diameter) on a 1st Gen? I'm looking for some boots for a 41mm tube and 52mm lower on a Kawasaki VN900. The boots off a Yamaha Bolt will work but they want an arm/leg for them.

[camos]

What size are the fork tubes and fork lowers (dust seal diameter) on a 1st Gen? I'm looking for some boots for a 41mm tube and 52mm lower on a Kawasaki VN900. The boots off a Yamaha Bolt will work but they want an arm/leg for them.

I'm at work right now but I can get the exact measurements in the morning. I'm pretty sure the forks are 40 mm but have no idea about the lowers.

 

I think the Rancho 1952 boots were 39 mm at the top with the bottom being larger. The material is stretchy and there was no problem getting it over the Venture forks and I would say there should be no problem getting them over 41 mm forks. The bottom end has two splits going up a few inches so they can fit over the lowers. They come with a zip tie but I didn't use it. The inside was folded up to sit on the fork brace while the outside hung down to cover the top of the lower.

[CaseyJ955]

I'm at work right now but I can get the exact measurements in the morning. I'm pretty sure the forks are 40 mm but have no idea about the lowers.

 

I think the Rancho 1952 boots were 39 mm at the top with the bottom being larger. The material is stretchy and there was no problem getting it over the Venture forks and I would say there should be no problem getting them over 41 mm forks. The bottom end has two splits going up a few inches so they can fit over the lowers. They come with a zip tie but I didn't use it. The inside was folded up to sit on the fork brace while the outside hung down to cover the top of the lower.

 

Dont MKI and MKII have different fork sizes?

[bongobobny]

Pretty much the only difference is in the lowers, the difference being the spacing for the caliper bolts. To convert to the 100 mm spacing on a MK 1, all you have to do is swap out the lowers...

[Du-Rron]

I'm at work right now but I can get the exact measurements in the morning. I'm pretty sure the forks are 40 mm but have no idea about the lowers.

 

I think the Rancho 1952 boots were 39 mm at the top with the bottom being larger. The material is stretchy and there was no problem getting it over the Venture forks and I would say there should be no problem getting them over 41 mm forks. The bottom end has two splits going up a few inches so they can fit over the lowers. They come with a zip tie but I didn't use it. The inside was folded up to sit on the fork brace while the outside hung down to cover the top of the lower.

 

Thanks for the info. I think I'll order a pair.