Vacuum reservoir for Ignitek MAP function done.

[CaseyJ955]

I just installed the Ignitek and got a crash course on setting up the MAP voltages. Originally the idle voltage was fluctuating wildly. Gary gave me some information on a Vacuum reservior to smooth it out a little so I made one in the approximate size his ended up. He said if they are to big they can introduce a lag so I kept it small. Idle voltages still fluctuate but it tamed it down to where I could reasonably dial in the map. Just thought I would throw the pics of what I got in case it might be helpful to any other Ignitek users. Again, Gary Dinges deserves the credit for coming up with the information, I sort of coasted on his trials, which he was kind enough to share with me.

 

Here is what I came up with after standing in the PVC isle at ACE for a while. I drilled the holes in the end caps just big enough that I could not stuff the copper barbs through it, then I threaded (forced) them in with a wrench. I used JB weld along the inside to insure a vacuum tight seal without having JB weld visible outside. I slid the end caps into the coupler with a light film of black RTV for good measure. Leftover paint, leftover clear coat and install along with the OEM restrictor. Once I ditch the charcoal canister it will be mounted right there in it's place but one project at a time now. I'm a set of brake pads away from crossing some state lines! All these glorious modifications with 0 miles on them is about to come to an end.

[BlueSky]

I'll show my ignorance of these bikes. So, the 89 has essentially a vacuum advance built in to the ignitek fed by manifold vacuum??

[CaseyJ955]

I'm not one to explain exactly how the factory one works but there is an OEM vacuum advance unit that works with the stock TCI. With the Ignitek the stock vac advance unit is not used, it goes away with the stock TCI.

 

The ignitek has a pigtail that plugs into a MAP sensor, and manifold vacuum runs to that MAP sensor. Once the Ignitek is plugged into a laptop via USB cable those voltages have to be tweaked within the Ignitek software for correct behavior. So map voltage for idle and WOT are adjusted.

 

I was unable to adjust it because the vacuum pulses were causing the voltage to go crazy, using a vacuum buffer smoothed it out. I could have gone a little bigger but it was good enough for me to get it adjusted. I also used the restricter orifice that was inline to the factory advance.

Venture Ignitech TCI Installation Instructions.pdf

[BlueSky]

That sounds like a great idea. Because on the old car engines that I am familiar with for performance the engine needs 32 to 36 degrees of ignition advance for maximum acceleration coming in gradually and all in by 2500 to 3000 rpm. But when cruising, the fuel mixture is lean and for best fuel economy the total advance should be more with some engines that could use as much as 50 degrees total advance. So the manifold vacuum was used to pull in the extra advance while crusing and the manifold vacuum is high but when it went full throttle it lost the vacuum advance and only had the 36 or so degrees advance that includes the initial setting and the centrifugal advance. These bikes should be getting better fuel economy that they actually get if that is the way it's set up.

[snyper316]

See he just totally lost me about all this buffering and vacuum advancing. In all theories my bike shouldn't run and overheat... I have never been a tech head.... looks good tho Casey. I think we need to compare bikes, and setups... I have that TCI from Regulatorrectifiers.com with no vacuum advance what so ever. NGK Caps, Copper Core wire, on OEM coils, and Splitfire plugs. I will be going back to NGK when I need to switch out plugs. I just wanted to see if they were still the same plugs as I remember.

[bongobobny]

OK, Snype, a couple of things. It is a known fact that the MK1 temperature gauge reads very high!! Normal operating temperature is just a tad below the red area! This was fixed with the MK2 gauge! Secondly, it is also a known fact that improperly balanced (Sync'ed) carburetors cause the engine to run a little bit on the hot side...

[KISA]

Only throttle position sensor for Ignitech v88! are standart MAP sensor!

[snyper316]

OK, Snype, a couple of things. It is a known fact that the MK1 temperature gauge reads very high!! Normal operating temperature is just a tad below the red area! This was fixed with the MK2 gauge! Secondly, it is also a known fact that improperly balanced (Sync'ed) carburetors cause the engine to run a little bit on the hot side...

 

I wasn't saying mine was overheating. Maybe I am reading this wrong. Also My bike never has really ran hot on the gauge maybe 3/4 but there is a bit of green between the red and needle.

[bongobobny]

In all theories my bike shouldn't run and overheat...

Sorry, from your statement I thought you thought your bike was running hot. I just wanted to point out the difference between the MK1 gauge and the MK2 gauge. On the MK2 the gauge is where you would expect it to be, maybe about 1/3 to 1/2 way up, not 3/4 up like the MK1...

[snyper316]

Sorry, from your statement I thought you thought your bike was running hot. I just wanted to point out the difference between the MK1 gauge and the MK2 gauge. On the MK2 the gauge is where you would expect it to be, maybe about 1/3 to 1/2 way up, not 3/4 up like the MK1...

Nah just me trying to figure how mine doesn't and how it even runs as there is no vacuum advance.

 

"Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly."

[CaseyJ955]

Only throttle position sensor for Ignitech v88! are standart MAP sensor!

 

That is my understanding, also the OEM uses vacuum to control advance, if I understand it correctly. So for other units like Synpers, is the advance handled with straight up software or is it designed to use the factory advance setup?

 

I gotta say I'm really liking the Ignitek and I'm semi-techy, I like to learn what I can and do all my own work. I have to say though that when I got the laptop plugged into the Ignitek I was overwhelmed by what I saw. You can literally change everything, plus impose a rev limit. That alone is worth the price of admission on the Vmax too. Without a dyno I didnt eff with spark curve and all that, I know Gary has it mapped out well and honestly without his help and spoon feeding me information I'm not sure how long it would have taken to get this sorted out.

 

I added the Ignitek and COPs at the same time. One of the perks with an Ignitek is when you add cops you need no resistors, unlike some of the other units that can be damaged by lower primary resistance coils drawing more current than the TCI can handle. I'm not sure what made it start and run so damn well, cops or the Ignitek, or the fact that unlike the PO I actually have the ability to fully seat the carb rack into the intake boots. Probably a combo but it's killing me to wait for the brake pads so I can try all this out. A MAP sensor is a good thing, this bike has been updated in several areas with tech not available when it was manufactured in 1989 so I'm looking to reap some of the rewards of this.

 

This is yesterday, almost done, anticipation is burning me up. A couple hours of cleaning out calipers and installing the HH brake pads and I'll be ready to roll. It's 77 degrees today so I'll have to wake wifey out on the VMax but I cant wait to get this thing on the road and see if it runs on the road as well as it does on the center stand. Also here is a voltage adjustment write-up and screen shot to pull it together for interested readers. In the screen shot you can see where the MAP voltages lay, those voltages are adjusted and results read in the lower left bar graph under the idle speed bar graph. The idle has to be adjusted down until it just barely dissapears, and a WOT whack should drive the black bar almost all the way to the right. The docs and info came from Gary

Change RPM in TCI.pdf

Setting MAP sensor voltages.pdf

[cimmer]

Hi Casey, it is actually both that helps the starting, I added the COPs first and that help, then I added the Ignitech and that helped even more. I am rebuilding the carbs next and I am sure that will help some as it starts dang quick now. I am hoping for some MPG in the mid 40's with the rebuild of the carbs. I am also added a 4 brush starter to mine this weekend to help with the hot starting issues. I will have to look you up next time I am in the Rapid City area.

Enjoy the bike and the riding as you have a great place to ride around in.

Rick F.

[mralex714]

I just installed the Ignitek and got a crash course on setting up the MAP voltages. Originally the idle voltage was fluctuating wildly. Gary gave me some information on a Vacuum reservior to smooth it out a little so I made one in the approximate size his ended up. He said if they are to big they can introduce a lag so I kept it small. Idle voltages still fluctuate but it tamed it down to where I could reasonably dial in the map. Just thought I would throw the pics of what I got in case it might be helpful to any other Ignitek users. Again, Gary Dinges deserves the credit for coming up with the information, I sort of coasted on his trials, which he was kind enough to share with me.

 

Here is what I came up with after standing in the PVC isle at ACE for a while. I drilled the holes in the end caps just big enough that I could not stuff the copper barbs through it, then I threaded (forced) them in with a wrench. I used JB weld along the inside to insure a vacuum tight seal without having JB weld visible outside. I slid the end caps into the coupler with a light film of black RTV for good measure. Leftover paint, leftover clear coat and install along with the OEM restrictor. Once I ditch the charcoal canister it will be mounted right there in it's place but one project at a time now. I'm a set of brake pads away from crossing some state lines! All these glorious modifications with 0 miles on them is about to come to an end.

 

It looks looks like that is a California spec bike. Will this work with none California spec bikes?

[CaseyJ955]

It looks looks like that is a California spec bike. Will this work with none California spec bikes?

 

It is my understanding that it doesn't matter, CA or 49 state is the same Ignitek.

 

I'm removing the charcoal canister and the bowl vent solenoid thing to revert back to 49 state, once that happens the vacuum buffer will mount where the charcoal canister is right now.

[CaseyJ955]

Hi Casey, it is actually both that helps the starting, I added the COPs first and that help, then I added the Ignitech and that helped even more. I am rebuilding the carbs next and I am sure that will help some as it starts dang quick now. I am hoping for some MPG in the mid 40's with the rebuild of the carbs. I am also added a 4 brush starter to mine this weekend to help with the hot starting issues. I will have to look you up next time I am in the Rapid City area.

Enjoy the bike and the riding as you have a great place to ride around in.

Rick F.

 

Thanks Rick. I did both at the same time, then before I fired it up I pulled the carbs, rejuvenated the jet block plugs, new jet block gaskets and dry set the floats to 1.125". They were a bit rich as they come from the factory. I think off the showroom floor these bikes got 40-ish, I'll be happy with that but if I could hit the mid 40s I would be thrilled. As a side note I could not check my wet float levels, those drain tube nubs were broken off by PO. Instead I gravity fed fuel to them and emptied the bowls into a graduated cyl to measure the bowl volumes individually in leu of a proper wet level check. They were all between 41 -43cc IIRC. I know the float levels are critical for the CV carbs, I also know these engines prefer slightly lean over slightly rich so I set the floats at the leanest acceptable setting. Also put in new diaphragms, the PO failed to seat the right side carbs fully into the intakes, they were half way. This might explain why I got a maximum of 25mpg on the 300 mile ride home after purchase and the 100 or so miles around town/hills. I never got better than 25 and I'm really hoping that all these changes shoot me back up on the other side of 40. My dayum Vmax can do better than 40-42-ish if I ride stay out of the needles/vboost so I cant see why the Venture in good health cant hit 45, even with the extra wt.

 

It was chilly this morning, I threw in the Iridium NGKs and went to start it. I put the key in, turned it on and the bike was suddenly running, all I had to do was think about starting it, never even hit the button (slight exaggeration).

[BlueSky]

The very short time I owned a motion pro carb sync tool, I saw the tiny orifices that fit into the vacuum lines to keep the vacuum signal stable. I'm wondering if Motion Pro would sell these tiny orifices to you separately???? If so, the vacuum tank wouldn't be needed most likely. The hole in those orifices were so small they were barely visible.

[snyper316]

I saw the tiny orifices that fit into the vacuum lines to keep the vacuum signal stable. I'm wondering if Motion Pro would sell these tiny orifices to you separately????.

 

You can buy all the parts you need for those sync tools however after shipping cost and they only sell them in fours, I think he may have got off a little cheaper, But they are $16 or so out the door when I was thinking of redoing my sync pro.

[CaseyJ955]

The very short time I owned a motion pro carb sync tool, I saw the tiny orifices that fit into the vacuum lines to keep the vacuum signal stable. I'm wondering if Motion Pro would sell these tiny orifices to you separately???? If so, the vacuum tank wouldn't be needed most likely. The hole in those orifices were so small they were barely visible.

 

There is a restrictor from the factory that goes to the OEM vac unit. I used that too although I know it doesnt restrict as much as one of the Synch restrictors. I think both work but I'm guessing a small enough restrictor would introduce lag as the small orifice would take an extra split second to allow the vacuum to pass. I dont know this, it's an assumption but it definitely deserves looking into.

 

I have an old set of vacuum gauges and they have restrictors, I think I'll play with it next time I plug the computer into the TCI.

[snyper316]

There is a restrictor from the factory that goes to the OEM vac unit. I used that too although I know it doesnt restrict as much as one of the Synch restrictors. I think both work but I'm guessing a small enough restrictor would introduce lag as the small orifice would take an extra split second to allow the vacuum to pass. I dont know this, it's an assumption but it definitely deserves looking into.

 

I have an old set of vacuum gauges and they have restrictors, I think I'll play with it next time I plug the computer into the TCI.

 

Let me see If any of the restrictors are still in my motion pro. I think there should be at least 2 left...

[cimmer]

I dont think you will have any issues getting 40-ish out of yours if you can get your wrist out of it.. I have gotten 45 out of mine on a long highway run of about 60mph average. I ended up installing my vacuum canister on top of the air filter cover along with the Ignitech unit. The wiring is long enough to reach there from the old TCI location and just get a long enough vacuum line from #2 carb to there. I did leave in the stock restrictor also. You and your wife will really enjoy riding this out there. Spearfish canyon is so beautiful when ridden on a motorcycle vs doing it in a cage.

Rick F.

 

 

 

Thanks Rick. I did both at the same time, then before I fired it up I pulled the carbs, rejuvenated the jet block plugs, new jet block gaskets and dry set the floats to 1.125". They were a bit rich as they come from the factory. I think off the showroom floor these bikes got 40-ish, I'll be happy with that but if I could hit the mid 40s I would be thrilled. As a side note I could not check my wet float levels, those drain tube nubs were broken off by PO. Instead I gravity fed fuel to them and emptied the bowls into a graduated cyl to measure the bowl volumes individually in leu of a proper wet level check. They were all between 41 -43cc IIRC. I know the float levels are critical for the CV carbs, I also know these engines prefer slightly lean over slightly rich so I set the floats at the leanest acceptable setting. Also put in new diaphragms, the PO failed to seat the right side carbs fully into the intakes, they were half way. This might explain why I got a maximum of 25mpg on the 300 mile ride home after purchase and the 100 or so miles around town/hills. I never got better than 25 and I'm really hoping that all these changes shoot me back up on the other side of 40. My dayum Vmax can do better than 40-42-ish if I ride stay out of the needles/vboost so I cant see why the Venture in good health cant hit 45, even with the extra wt.

 

It was chilly this morning, I threw in the Iridium NGKs and went to start it. I put the key in, turned it on and the bike was suddenly running, all I had to do was think about starting it, never even hit the button (slight exaggeration).

[snyper316]

Are you all kidding? Come on who in there right mind is gonna take one of these bikes and bop down the road at 60.... Ok so i like the feel of the pull the motor has as you twist that throttle open.. I been getting about 33-36mpg going about 70ish. So Is it ok to be in 5th gear at 60? I am just curious I would like to see if I can Manage 40mpg. My problem is, well its so darn easy to well crack that throttle open...\

 

Btw @CaseyJ955 I do have 3 restrictors still but the hole is about the size of a needle point.

[CaseyJ955]

I dont think you will have any issues getting 40-ish out of yours if you can get your wrist out of it.. I have gotten 45 out of mine on a long highway run of about 60mph average. I ended up installing my vacuum canister on top of the air filter cover along with the Ignitech unit. The wiring is long enough to reach there from the old TCI location and just get a long enough vacuum line from #2 carb to there. I did leave in the stock restrictor also. You and your wife will really enjoy riding this out there. Spearfish canyon is so beautiful when ridden on a motorcycle vs doing it in a cage.

Rick F.

 

Sounds like some good locations. I put my TCI on top of the air box and the MAP under the stereo. I'll probably have to move the TCI later to make room for a custom airbox.

 

Yea, Spearfish canyon is amazing. Our rectal wart governor has been trying to turn it into a state park, nobody is making it easy for him. For now it's still amazing to ride during the fall when the leaves change. Go in the morning and you will have the whole valley to yourself. From there you can head into WY or back around into the North hills and get an insane burger in Custer.