Avon Venom Tyres are the Best!

[BigShell]

My conclusions are that the handling characteristics of the RSV can be dramatically improved by EITHER changing to the MT90 or 130/90 front tire OR raising the rear of the bike.

 

I believe that doing BOTH changes (narrower front tire and the higher rear) is not optimal. Although I did not initially feel that the handling was bad after adding the shorter suspension links, I did notice it get worse as the front tire wore down. I think that this made the front even lower, which combined with the narrow tire made the handling just too quick for such a big bike.

 

My recommendations: If you have long legs and want the higher seat height, change out the suspension links to DiamondR's Leveling Links and keep a stock front tire size.

 

If you want to keep the rear of the bike at the same or lower height as stock, definitely change your front tire to the MT90 or 130/90 size.

Goose

 

Thanks Goose. Your conclusions confirm what I've experienced with various combinations of dog bones and tire widths. I think your recommendations are right on the mark.

[Monsta]

Now by raising the rear you are changing the rake.

It is my understanding that rake is a fixed number unless you change the triple trees. By raising the rear you are effectively reducing trail as well as putting more weight on the front...a good thing.

[V7Goose]

It is my understanding that rake is a fixed number unless you change the triple trees. By raising the rear you are effectively reducing trail as well as putting more weight on the front...a good thing.

The rake is the angle of the steering head related to a perpendicular line to the ground. The trail is the distance on the ground between an imaginary line drawn straight through the steering head and one drawn vertically through the front axle. Here is how Wikipedia describes it:

The trail dimension is determined by drawing an imaginary line through the

steering axis

to the ground, dropping a perpendicular line from the front

axle

to the ground (which usually falls some distance behind the first line), then measuring the distance between these two points (the name arises because the drop point "trails" the steering axis point).

[2]

Trail ultimately defines the handling characteristics of a motorcycle, how stable it will be at higher speeds, how easy it will flick through S-turns, and how easy it will be to control at sub-idle parking lot maneuvers. Bikes with shorter trail will be very easy to handle at slow speeds and quite responsive when navigating S-turns, but at higher speeds these bikes will be more vulnerable to the road conditions and feel more unstable. On the other hand, bikes with longer trail dimensions may handle like a wheel barrow in the parking lot, require a bit more encouragement to tackle an S curve, but track straight and true like an arrow at freeway speeds, offering little response to the road until the handlebars are activated by the rider. The trick for the motorcycle designer is to find some happy medium for the intended design.

By just raising the rear of the bike without making any other changes, the rake angle becomes slightly steeper AND the trail becomes shorter. In contrast, lowering the bike by putting smaller diameter tires on both the front and back so that the bike remains level would not change the rake but WOULD produce a shorter trail.

 

Putting a smaller diameter tire on the front while also raising the rear will decrease the trail by more than just raising the rear will do.

 

Because of the confusion pointed out by several folks here, I generally TRY to avoid using the term "smaller" when talking about tires, preferring instead to say "shorter," "narrower," or "smaller diameter." I'm sure I don't avoid it all together, since I am constantly catching myself typing the word, then going back and correcting it to one of the others, but I try. Thanks for making sure this was clear to everyone.

Goose

[SNOW700R]

Avons are the best thing I've done on my bike. I could feel the difference just leave the parking lot. My buddy is going to switch his front over first thing this spring also. Ride on!

[Guest medalhead01]

Ok. I have an 06 RSV with the stock Dunlup tires. I have never really liked them much and have been looking for new ones. Yes, I agree with you all that going through curves on the highway can be a little scary at times, and the tires do track with almost anything on the road which make the front pull form side to side.

I have read all these post in the past and every one talks about the Avon tires. I have looked that them, is it me or what, they look like a racing tire with little tire tread pattern More like a modified slick tire. I was concerned with how this tire react to slick spots on the road, ie; water, oil.

I was looking at the Michilen commander tire. I see your point with the small diamiter front tire. \

So, please tell me about small tread pattern on the Avon tires.

[Squidley]

Rich,

 

I have run Avons for the last 3 years and I have NEVER had any problems with traction wet roads. These tires are very sticky and will carve a corner like nobody's business. The only reason a tire has tread in it is to disperse water and give traction in wet conditions.

 

Obviously one has to use good judgement with road conditions, slowing down when wet or adverse road conditions are present. I have never encountered any problems with over 30000 miles on Avon Venoms.

 

The Michelin Commanders are a good tire also, Freebird has a set on his '99 and he really likes them. They are a good tire and obviously another choice to look at....Just .02 worth from the peanut gallery

[Tartan Terror]

Ok so let me get this straight!!! Everyone agrees that if you have the links stick with the stock size front as the narrower one will make it too responsive and maybe in some cased a little squirley. You guys are confusing me. But definitly the Avon!!

[V7Goose]

Ok. I have an 06 RSV with the stock Dunlup tires. I have never really liked them much and have been looking for new ones. Yes, I agree with you all that going through curves on the highway can be a little scary at times, and the tires do track with almost anything on the road which make the front pull form side to side.

I have read all these post in the past and every one talks about the Avon tires. I have looked that them, is it me or what, they look like a racing tire with little tire tread pattern More like a modified slick tire. I was concerned with how this tire react to slick spots on the road, ie; water, oil.

I was looking at the Michilen commander tire. I see your point with the small diamiter front tire. \

So, please tell me about small tread pattern on the Avon tires.

The tread pattern in the Avon Venom tires seems to be the new industry standard for heavy cruiser or touring tires. You will see lots of similarity with Dunlop EIIIs, Metzeler 880s, etc.

 

I have been completely impressed with the total handling characteristics of these tires specifically (traction, wet roads, etc.) and the RSV with the Avons (no tracking problems, neutral turning effort, stability). I have 20,000 miles on Avons with my 05 QuickSilver, and I have ridden in light misty rain, frog stranglers, all-day storms, patchy rains through the mountains, high speed solo runs, two up marathons, footboard-dragging runs through the twisties in Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Texas Hill Country, slew the Three Sisters, and just plain old boring runs to and from work dodging the stupid cagers. At no point have I wished for anything more than what the Venoms could deliver to me. I'd guess that the tread pattern on the Venoms seems just about perfect to me, at least compared to anything else I have ridden on. Good luck,

Goose

[V7Goose]

Ok so let me get this straight!!! Everyone agrees that if you have the links stick with the stock size front as the narrower one will make it too responsive and maybe in some cased a little squirley. You guys are confusing me. But definitly the Avon!!

Hey, you're not confused at all - you boiled it all down to one neat sentence!

 

Stock tires if you raise the rear, narrower front tire if you do not raise the rear.

Goose

[Tartan Terror]

Good because its buying time and and Im Scottish! That means Im only buying 2-- not 3 as an experiment. I like the look of the lartger tire anyway.

[RickH]

Michelin Commanders are pretty good tires but if I remember right also have the lightest load rating almost 200lbs less than the Avon and the Junketlzers which still seems to be enough and I've never heard of a failure with them compared to the Junketlzers which seem to have trouble keeping the tread on them not blowing big chunks off of.

 

Avon tread design and compound works for me. Even on the Wing I get good wear and they eat tires. I haven't seen a tire yet that won't loose some traction on oily wet roads with tar snakes. You have to adjust, anticipate and overcome.

[Guest medalhead01]

ok. Goose. Went on the Avon site and looked and read about there tires. I like to looks of the front tire with the rain groove in it. Along with confused. With your tire set up, narrow in front, I will not have to put leveler linkage on my bike. What you are saying is the the narrow tire lowers the front end a bit to change the rake and trail.

[RickH]

 

At least with the Avon the diameter of the stock size150/80HB-16 and the smaller width size MT90-16 both have a diameter of 25.100"

 

 

FYI

 

Key word smaller width and or thinner but same diameter!

[V7Goose]

ok. Goose. Went on the Avon site and looked and read about there tires. I like to looks of the front tire with the rain groove in it. Along with confused. With your tire set up, narrow in front, I will not have to put leveler linkage on my bike. What you are saying is the the narrow tire lowers the front end a bit to change the rake and trail.

I am saying that with the narrower tire in the front and stock suspension links you will have fantastically improved low speed handling on an RSV. I also feel the overall handling and maneuverability of the RSV is improved, not just the low speed handling, but that is where you will notice the most dramatic improvement.

 

HOWEVER, the MT90 tire does NOT change the rake or trail. That would only come from a tire that has a smaller overall diameter than the stock front tire. There ARE some brands of tires where the MT90 or 130/90 front tire is a smaller diameter than the stock 150/80, but that is not the case with Avon Venoms.

 

The improved handling is a result of the changed tire profile. The narrower tire causes the tire to lean into a turn more smoothly when running below the counter-steering speed (about 6 MPH). Wider tires or flatter profiles cause what I'll call a tipping point where the tire suddenly reaches a point where it acts like it is falling over a cliff. On the RSV with stock tires and stock suspension, as soon as the bike committed to a low speed turn the forks would try to slam all the way to full lock, causing the rider to constantly push out on the inside bar to keep that from happening. This is what caused the bike to feel so darn heavy and ponderous. By putting on the MT90 tire in front (and a good tire in the rear), the bike totally lost any tendency to force the front wheel into a turn. With the narrower tire, the steering at parking lot speeds is almost neutral, meaning you no longer have to try and force the handlebars to the position you want. The bike will hold just about any line you put it on.

Hope that helps,

Goose

[86er]

I only have one concern. On other bikes that I had with the narower front tire the bike would catch a groove in the road or a join in the concrete and would make it hard to handle.

 

The tread pattern in the Avon Venom tires seems to be the new industry standard for heavy cruiser or touring tires. You will see lots of similarity with Dunlop EIIIs, Metzeler 880s, etc.

 

I have been completely impressed with the total handling characteristics of these tires specifically (traction, wet roads, etc.)

Goose

 

ok. Goose. Went on the Avon site and looked and read about there tires. I like to looks of the front tire with the rain groove in it.

 

As I understand it, the Avon Venom was the first motorcycle tire to be completely computer designed. The tread on the front that cuts all the way across the tire is there to keep the center cut from tracking grooves in the road. When I first put them on a bike I tried to make it follow grooves and it just flat wouldn't do it!

 

I was at a track day at Barber race track one day talking to the tire supplier to the racers and asked him what he thought of the Venom. He said that racers here don't use them as much, but in areas where there is more rain that is the main tire on tracks. That said a lot to me.

 

I have had the Venom on three different bikes and each one handled better with the Avon, whether on dry, wet, rain grooved, metal grooved or Tar Snake laden roads.

 

My 86 had Venoms on it when I got it and I switched to EIII rear and D404 front (they don't make an EIII front) because I was told that the Venom was too much tire for the 1st Gen. I now know that the issues I have, probably will be cured with a fork brace and new stearing head bearing. I will be going back to the Venom on my next change.

 

I don't work for Avon; that's just my + + worth!

 

 

[RickH]

Todd said:

I was told that the Venom was too much tire for the 1st Gen.

 

:rotf: :rotf:

Somebody was talking out of their rear end making that statement.

 

 

Somebody that doesn't know the 1St.Gen Venture that's a sure bet!!!!!

 

 

As you now know Todd the Venom is the tire for the 1St. Gen. and a bunch of other machines. I wouldn't listen to what they said much any more. They were doing that Jim Carry imitation in "Pet Detective" talking out their butt!

Yea, Fork Brace, Progressive Springs and really dial it in with some solid mounts and SS lines!

[86er]

Yeah, Rick, that was in the first couple of months that I owned my 1st Gen. We were up at Deals Gap and he was on an early 80s police Guzzi (nice bike!) and said that he bought an 86 VR new. I now know that if he knew anything, he would still own that 86!!!

 

I plan to do the steering head bearings, solid motor mounts, fork brace, springs and ss lines in that order,

and as permits!

 

I enjoy riding easy, but there are times when I like to ride hard and I know this bikes potential!

 

[Yammer Dan]

TOO MUCH TIRE??? Avon is the best feeling tire I have ridden on but then I've only been riding since 1963.

[V7Goose]

OK, I'll admit that I don't know what "too much tire" would be, other than too big! It sure sounds like one of the stupidest things anyone could ever say. Even if they were trying to say it was better than the bike needed, that's not a bad thing!

 

But hey, I don't work for a tire company or a race track, so what do I know?

Goose

[reelay]

i have an 88 i have venom tires , super brace, solid engine mounts, new head bearings. got them all from rick ,and am completly safified with the handling impoovement each item made. going to do fork springs this winter. only thing i noticed with the enging mounts was .it made it a lot easier to pull the front tire or maybe that was the barnett clutch conversion lol

[Geezrr]

Just replaced my rear tire, Avon Venom. I am sure I could have gotten another 800 - 1000 miles out of it, but was getting the bike serviced and $32.50 for tire change was a good price.

How many miles? 13,800 miles, even the chicken strips had some good wear on them. I found the Avons handle so much better that I do spend more time cornering...

[Venturous Randy]

I have had my 83 for eleven years and have put over 80,000 miles on it. Right after I got it I put a set of Dunlap Elites on it and it was a lot better than what I had. The next set was Metzler 880's and I felt that was an improvement over the Dunlap's. I just put on a set of Avons and so far feel they are better than any. I was impressed with the front tire wear on the Metzlers as I put 22,000 miles on it and it still had a lot of tread. but I went thru two rear tires and wore both out.

Part of the rear tire wear was related to running some at less pressure for awhile due to screws in the tires. On these Avons I am planning to keep a close eye on pressures and see how well they wear.

So far, I really do like how they feel.

RandyA

[Geezrr]

I have had my 83 for eleven years and have put over 80,000 miles on it. Right after I got it I put a set of Dunlap Elites on it and it was a lot better than what I had. The next set was Metzler 880's and I felt that was an improvement over the Dunlap's. I just put on a set of Avons and so far feel they are better than any. I was impressed with the front tire wear on the Metzlers as I put 22,000 miles on it and it still had a lot of tread. but I went thru two rear tires and wore both out.

Part of the rear tire wear was related to running some at less pressure for awhile due to screws in the tires. On these Avons I am planning to keep a close eye on pressures and see how well they wear.

So far, I really do like how they feel.

RandyA

 

RandyA: I had a roadstar before my RSMV and went through a variety of tires with it. Dunlops I was not impressed with, ME880''s I was very impressed with. Same here tho, two rear tires to one front. that seems to be normal with me. Has been that way on almost every bike I have had in the past 35 years.

 

Switched to the Avons at 11,000 miles last spring on the RSMV, (stock tires were not doing well at that point, something about metal coming through the rubber?), and it was like a new bike! Will stick with them for awhile.

[Venturous Randy]

The one thing I did like about the Dunlaps was the availability of the raised white letters. I thought that looked good on my bike.

RandyA

[wkboard]

Jockey thanks for asking!

Goose thanks for answering!

I was wondering the very same thing. I think I can do that tire change thing myself. So far the Yamaha Mechs that I have talked to do not know anything about a VR. I hope I find a good Mechanic some day, or just keep learning from all of you!!!

Thanks,

Alan..