Looking for an Opinion

[Chaharly]

Hey Guys! It looks like its time to do a little maintenance on my Baby Girl including a new front tire, new battery, and a clutch new slave cylinder. Its been leaking ever since I got it, but I've just continued to fill the reservoir once it gets low. I figure now would be a good time to take care of it, before I go to the Black Hills in late April/early May. I know that the book says to replace both the Master and the Slave, but honestly, its just not in the budget. The fluid is clean as I've flushed it probably 5 times in 20k miles. My big question is more about the hydraulic clutch cables. I feel like with 29 year old rubber, it may be time to replace the cable. I looked online and could only find the part for 90 or more dollars, and to be quite honest, that little bit of added security isn't worth 90 bucks to me. I will, in the future, replace the hydraulic brake cables because the brakes undergo some serious heat and pressure, but I feel like something relatively light duty like the clutch cable really doesn't need replaced unless its rotting from the inside.

 

How big of a job is it to replace the clutch cables? Also, is there a cheaper, more generic cable I can go for with the right size fittings for the bike? If I do change it, what are the lengths I should get???

 

Thanks in advance guys!!

[CaseyJ955]

So it works as it should other than the slave weeping out. I would replace the slave, bleed it and make sure it functions as it should, then come on out here to the Black Hills. Enjoy the amazing roads before the bulk of the tourists arrive. HMU when you get out here if you like, Im just outside Rapid.

 

Ive had older hoses work ok. Maybe technically it should be replaced but so shouldnt lots of other pieces of our bikes. When the hoses deteriorate from inside out the sloughing material can act as a check balve and impede flow or return, on brakes it can cause brake hang mimicking a sticky caliper. That is my opinion.

[Marcarl]

The clutch line is a 3 piece setup. From the master there is a rubber line, goes into a hardline and then a short piece of rubber again. It can all be replaced with generic material. Problem comes in matching the ends if you want to leave the hardline in place. What I would do is to take it all out, go to your local mechanic and have them make up a whole new set. The ends will be standard banjo bolts, so there should be no issues. I don't think SS braided would be called for, but you can if you like. The reason for SS mostly is that there is no give in the line and so you get better reaction from the slave, but the runs are short, so you would notice very little or no change. Now in the brake systems, that's a different story, SS highly recommended.

[Chaharly]

So it works as it should other than the slave weeping out. I would replace the slave, bleed it and make sure it functions as it should, then come on out here to the Black Hills. Enjoy the amazing roads before the bulk of the tourists arrive. HMU when you get out here if you like, Im just outside Rapid.

 

Ive had older hoses work ok. Maybe technically it should be replaced but so shouldnt lots of other pieces of our bikes. When the hoses deteriorate from inside out the sloughing material can act as a check balve and impede flow or return, on brakes it can cause brake hang mimicking a sticky caliper. That is my opinion.

 

 

I'll definitely get ahold of you when we get up there. We usually end up finding ourselves in the black hills at least once or twice a year! I decided to buy a slave rebuild kit for 16 bucks and go that route. I decided to take my chances with the old hoses. They dont undergo much pressure, so I think I can squeeze another ten years out of them lol

[Chaharly]

The clutch line is a 3 piece setup. From the master there is a rubber line, goes into a hardline and then a short piece of rubber again. It can all be replaced with generic material. Problem comes in matching the ends if you want to leave the hardline in place. What I would do is to take it all out, go to your local mechanic and have them make up a whole new set. The ends will be standard banjo bolts, so there should be no issues. I don't think SS braided would be called for, but you can if you like. The reason for SS mostly is that there is no give in the line and so you get better reaction from the slave, but the runs are short, so you would notice very little or no change. Now in the brake systems, that's a different story, SS highly recommended.

 

I noticed in the diagrams that it was a three piece set up and I don't think that I would change the hardline unless it was showing signs up rubbing. Just clean it out and it should last about forever. Thanks for the info on the banjo bolts. I'm probably not going to change my clutch lines, but the brake lines will all be changed with SS lines. Its always more important to be able to stop a vehicle than to be able to make it go!!!

[CaseyJ955]

I'll definitely get ahold of you when we get up there. We usually end up finding ourselves in the black hills at least once or twice a year! I decided to buy a slave rebuild kit for 16 bucks and go that route. I decided to take my chances with the old hoses. They dont undergo much pressure, so I think I can squeeze another ten years out of them lol

 

When you get the slave off and broken down hit it with the stones before opening the rebuild kit, if the ID wont clean up with the stones you could still have a weeping slave cyl when its all done. I really wouldnt sweat the hoses if they work now they will almost certainly work when it goes back together and for the foreseeable future. I have cheated a couple times and wrapped 400 grit around my finger and wet sanded a very light crosshatch into the ID under the kitchen faucet just to break the glaze inside the bore. It often works where the stones fail, but not always. Unless the bike has been terribly neglected my guess it will be fine with a hone and seals.

 

If you are bike camping with no cage/RV there is room to pitch a tent here, roughin' it style of course. I usually work the first several days a month, other than that my schedule is pretty open. Good luck on the rebuild!

[cimmer]

The only issue with the old clutch hoses is that they will expand when you put them under pressure. I ended up replacing all the hoses on my 89 a few years ago due to the fact when I applies the brakes I could feel the hose swell in my hands as I held it. I went with SS lines for everything but left in the hard lines since they shouldnt wear out. It made a big difference in how much quicker I could stop. I also rebuild the master cylinders and calipers as well and the clutch master and slave cylinders.

if you are just rebuilding the slave cylinder for the clutch, make sure you get some new washers for the banjo connectors as you it is good practice not to reuse them. You will also need a Crankcase cover 2 gasket, 3JP-15461-01-00. You can do this without changing the oil as you will only loose a little bit of oil when you pull the cover. You will also notice a washer on the bottom bolt of the cover, if you remove this, it is also a drain for the oil in the transmission area. It will take a little time to get the slave cylinder out but it does come out, you just have to work with it and it doesnt need to be forced. There is one way it comes out and goes back in.

Good luck.

Rick F.

[Chaharly]

The only issue with the old clutch hoses is that they will expand when you put them under pressure. I ended up replacing all the hoses on my 89 a few years ago due to the fact when I applies the brakes I could feel the hose swell in my hands as I held it. I went with SS lines for everything but left in the hard lines since they shouldnt wear out. It made a big difference in how much quicker I could stop. I also rebuild the master cylinders and calipers as well and the clutch master and slave cylinders.

if you are just rebuilding the slave cylinder for the clutch, make sure you get some new washers for the banjo connectors as you it is good practice not to reuse them. You will also need a Crankcase cover 2 gasket, 3JP-15461-01-00. You can do this without changing the oil as you will only loose a little bit of oil when you pull the cover. You will also notice a washer on the bottom bolt of the cover, if you remove this, it is also a drain for the oil in the transmission area. It will take a little time to get the slave cylinder out but it does come out, you just have to work with it and it doesnt need to be forced. There is one way it comes out and goes back in.

Good luck.

Rick F.

 

Thanks for the advice, and I agree with you on the lines swelling. I will definitely go over the entire braking system on the Venture, but I just don't see the clutch lines undergoing that much pressure. I forgot about that gasket thanks for reminding me! I think i'm going to put in a shift seal as well

[Chaharly]

When you get the slave off and broken down hit it with the stones before opening the rebuild kit, if the ID wont clean up with the stones you could still have a weeping slave cyl when its all done. I really wouldnt sweat the hoses if they work now they will almost certainly work when it goes back together and for the foreseeable future. I have cheated a couple times and wrapped 400 grit around my finger and wet sanded a very light crosshatch into the ID under the kitchen faucet just to break the glaze inside the bore. It often works where the stones fail, but not always. Unless the bike has been terribly neglected my guess it will be fine with a hone and seals.

 

If you are bike camping with no cage/RV there is room to pitch a tent here, roughin' it style of course. I usually work the first several days a month, other than that my schedule is pretty open. Good luck on the rebuild!

 

 

 

I'll be going up with my dad, and he's not really the roughing it type anymore lol. I'm sure we'll be getting a hotel near rapid or something. Whenever I come up to the hills I always stay at Kemps Kamp. I absolutely love that campground!

[BlueSky]

As an "Oh by the way", it is my understanding that braided SS brake lines that fit the stock calipers will not work with R1 brake calipers. So, if you are planning to make that change in the future, you want to do it at the same time. Skydoc can tell you all about it and can supply the ss lines. The brake pads are the same size R1 or stock on the MK IIs I think. The R1s supposedly work better because the calipers don't slide and one cylinder is smaller than the other affecting the way the pads are squeezed against the rotor or something like that. Others know more about this than I do. I did buy the right side R1 caliper but haven't installed it yet and I may not.

[CaseyJ955]

BlueSKy is right.

I used R6 calipers but I think the R1s are the same story. You will need brake lines when you do the R calipers. I think I got a pair of R6 calipers for $45 shipped and they had a bunch of SS line with them. As it happens now I'm going to remove those calipers and clean them out as I should have done before putting them on. Some of the Vmax guys like the Volar HH sintered pads so I'll give those a shot at the same time.

 

The angle and position of the inlet where the banjo meets the caliper is different. I got my R6 calipers with some aftermarket braided lines on them and adapted those to work with the Venture by using a splitter off a Vmax and a homemade aluminum mounting plate. The OEM lines are a no go with the R calipers.

 

The reason the pistons are difference sizes is to keep the brake pads wearing even. The further away from the inlet the piston is the slower it will react to brake actuation so they are a different DIA to compensate for that and keep the pad wearing nice and flat. Thats how it was explained to me anyway.

[videoarizona]

BlueSKy is right.

 

The angle and position of the inlet where the banjo meets the caliper is different. I got my R6 calipers with some aftermarket braided lines on them and adapted those to work with the Venture by using a splitter off a Vmax and a homemade aluminum mounting plate. The OEM lines are a no go with the R calipers.

 

 

I recently put an R1 caliper on the rear of my 89. With help and guidance from VanRiver, I re-used the OEM line. The twist in the line due to the different placement of the banjo was relieved by loosening the clamp that holds down the line on the swingarm, allowing the line to move forward and relax. Line is out of the way and still supported by the holddown.

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by videoarizona

[CaseyJ955]

I recently put an R1 caliper on the rear of my 89. With help and guidance from VanRiver, I re-used the OEM line. The twist in the line due to the different placement of the banjo was relieved by loosening the clamp that holds down the line on the swingarm, allowing the line to move forward and relax. Line is out of the way and still supported by the holddown.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=108933

 

My front calipers are early 2000s R6, different lines needed.

My rear caliper is a Front Right off an 08-ish R6S. It was one that would allow me to bleed the brakes without pulling the caliper. I was able to use the OEM line there.

 

I didnt worry much about the rear being braided but at some point I'll probably throw one on if I need to. My front brakes were a dumpster fire before all this so braided lines were a given there.