Want to Make a Toy Hauler

[Sylvester]

Yes toy haulers are expensive but they are designed to do the job. A 7,000# camping trailer with a GVWR of ?, probably doesn't fit the job. GVWR is what you need to look at with what you have. The bike with all other counter weight and supplies added to the weight of the trailer as is, is all it is legal to carry. DOT looks at this.

 

 

 

My trailer is used and I bought it for $3,000. I am not financially, or mentally, capable of cutting up an expensive camper, and a folding ramp door is what I had in mind. For those of you recommending that I buy a toy hauler rather than build one; Have you priced them? Have you checked the used market??

[GaryZ]

Thank you to everyone for the useful comments and concerns, that is why I started this thread.

 

I did a little inspecting/measuring and found;

The back bedroom is 89" wide and there is a hot water heater where I would need to place the front tire to get the VR in at an angle. No joy. The length of the bedroom is not long enough either, however, there is a door opening that could allow the front tire to extend into the hall. I would need to put the ramp-door on the back. The only things in the way; the electric inverter/circuit panel (under the bed and right in the middle of the bedroom) and an outside accessible storage area. Because the whole back of the camper will be a garage, I don't think the storage area is a big deal (yet). And moving the electrical stuff is within my wheelhouse.

 

I need to get under the thing and look at the frame . . . When the weather and my knee is better.

[rbig1]

I ended up using a 5/8 plywood under back wheel as when pounding down the great roads. bent the aluminum floor down a little. pushed it back up and reinforced floor. plan on using a winch to load bike. spooks ya when riding in under power. if you put it through back cant you lengthen the back above rear bumper. I would use a roll up door and harley ramps. lots of ups and fed ex trucks in scrap yard with good back doors and all hardware. wheel chalk is a must there are some deep potholes where you cant see them till its to late.

[Woody]

I ended up using a 5/8 plywood under back wheel as when pounding down the great roads. bent the aluminum floor down a little. pushed it back up and reinforced floor. plan on using a winch to load bike. spooks ya when riding in under power. if you put it through back cant you lengthen the back above rear bumper. I would use a roll up door and harley ramps. lots of ups and fed ex trucks in scrap yard with good back doors and all hardware. wheel chalk is a must there are some deep potholes where you cant see them till its to late.

 

the winch sounds like a good idea, what do you use to support the bike when winching it? about three years ago while hauling my trike to North Carolina I hit some bad roads around Atlanta Georgia and bent a cross member on my enclosed trailer, now I park the bike on two boards to distribute the weight better.

[93 venture]

I was looking at theses before I bought my toy hauler

[Marcarl]

My gess is that you'll have to beef up the frame some, this adds weight as well. Now also consider the stress point. You beef up the frame for the last 10' or so and that will no longer give way, but now the stress point is at the front edge of the beefed up section, so you'll need to fix that, which puts the stress point further forward, until you get to the ball at the front. All that weight at the back is going to like to do it's own bouncing up and down. You'll need to 'fix' the frame, front to rear.

My son likes to get a cargo trailer and then convert to a dual purpose. Summer time for camping, winter time for job site. They use an air bed and movable outside cupboards with some built-in cupboards at the front. NO need for a furnace, they use an electric heater seeing as most campsites have electric anyways, no wash room, again most places have washrooms and showers, so for the inside all they want is a bed, fridge and storage. Really quite simple and inexpensive.

Consider what items you really want, rather than what would be nice, so gather your thoughts and start with a bare trailer and then start adding things and think about how you can make the necessities dual purpose, or store-able. In the end it might surprise you how much room you really need and how short you could go. Like, the toy section could become a bedroom in less than 10 minutes.

[GaryZ]

My gess is that you'll have to beef up the frame some, this adds weight as well. Now also consider the stress point. You beef up the frame for the last 10' or so and that will no longer give way, but now the stress point is at the front edge of the beefed up section, so you'll need to fix that, which puts the stress point further forward, until you get to the ball at the front. All that weight at the back is going to like to do it's own bouncing up and down. You'll need to 'fix' the frame, front to rear.

My son likes to get a cargo trailer and then convert to a dual purpose. Summer time for camping, winter time for job site. They use an air bed and movable outside cupboards with some built-in cupboards at the front. NO need for a furnace, they use an electric heater seeing as most campsites have electric anyways, no wash room, again most places have washrooms and showers, so for the inside all they want is a bed, fridge and storage. Really quite simple and inexpensive.

Consider what items you really want, rather than what would be nice, so gather your thoughts and start with a bare trailer and then start adding things and think about how you can make the necessities dual purpose, or store-able. In the end it might surprise you how much room you really need and how short you could go. Like, the toy section could become a bedroom in less than 10 minutes.

 

There are a couple of things that we want: A bathroom and shower, an enclosed garage (to seal smells out of the camper), and the abilty to sleep in it without pulling the bike out when traveling. If you read my thread about my dream toy hauler, you will see how close this camper fits that vision; 24' long, sleeping/eating in the front, kitchen/bath over the wheels, bedroom/garage in back. When camping with the grand kids, the garage will be a bedroom when the bike is not in it. I am aware of the need to add frame strength forward of the garage area. I think the added structure will only need to extend through the leaf springs supporting the axles.

[videoarizona]

I'm still thinking about this...I do like the idea of what you are doing. Just trying to get my head around the space needed for an RSV and the frame/loading issues.

 

I tow a 23 foot sailboat on it's original trailer. Typical strong boat trailer. Had to be, as my boat was made for trailer sailing. Problem arose...got some vibrations that got worse. I noticed the entire trailer had bent down from the middle of the dual axles to the rear! This is a 7,000 pound rated trailer with a 2400 pound boat displacement...3200 pounds fully loaded! Seriously?

 

Yea....so went to trailer frame guys and their recommendation was to add a second frame welded on top of the first. WHAT? That would almost double the weight of the trailer. They explained to me the bouncing of the boat on the roads over the years had slowly bent the frame and it would do it again in time. I asked if they were only going to weld on the rear end....they said NO. The entire frame on either side of the axles had to be stressed otherwise there would be flexing in front the strengthened area, creating problems all around. I know about flexing as I had one tongue crack on me with the bad roads back East.

 

So they straightened my old frame and added the two new rails.

 

Bottom line: I don't know anything about trailer frames and how they are strengthened, but you might want to discuss your idea someone who knows these things.

 

I'm interested in what you are doing... as toyhaulers are a bit to much for this kid, my wife does not living with diesel or gas fumes, and I don't like the idea of moving the bike out to sleep.

 

By the way, I did see a large class A motor home with a hydraulic lift on the rear that was holding a Honda Goldwing. He was also towing a car. So if they could do that, I'm figuring I can find a way to tow a used trailer with a bike as well. You are thinking outside the box...which I like.

 

 

[Flyinfool]

When you add in the additional frame rails you will want them to go all the way front to back in one piece, each side. You sure do not want to create a stress riser in the middle of the trailer.

[Hummingbird]

Let me play devils advocate - - - -

One other thing that should take priority - once you start altering ANY factory frame work or even the inside amenities that will change the factory 'balance' point you may find that your insurance company may not insure it or possibly jack up the cost in an effort to deter the alteration.

If your problem now is cost, think about the cost if something happens going down the highway and your insurance company refuses to cover it because of non factory alterations.

[Hummingbird]

I googled toy haulers near me - found several and this one is pretty interesting

http://rv.campingworld.com/rvdetails/new-travel-trailer-toy-hauler-rvs/2017-crossroads-z-1-278rr-toyhauler-10k-SRV1286740

[baylensman]

I've seen it done. On the car show circuit, a lot of guys carried bikes to get around some of the venues were sprawling (Carlise was almost 14 miles of roads in the fair grounds) Comments about frame rails are well taken. The one i saw had a 2" x 4" box tube under the existing frame rails using u-bolts similar to the square type used on big rig rear axles. The flooring was peeled back and the sub floor was treated to some 1"x6" cross laid to the sub floor ( 45") . He had gotten a door from a box truck and used half of it so it swung out. Last I saw he was talking about a winch because it was a real BI$#@H to load. when I saw it he had been on the road for 3 or 4 seasons and never had any other issues. He said he never hauled with the tanks full. He even went so far as to take the fresh tank off and plumb for site side water. I don't know for sure about moving anything else around. Us old car guys were pretty handy with the improvised engineering, to save a few bucks!! Home made campers and roll back on old pickups. Even saw a few extra long vans with tag axles!!

[GaryZ]

Let me play devils advocate - - - -

One other thing that should take priority - once you start altering ANY factory frame work or even the inside amenities that will change the factory 'balance' point you may find that your insurance company may not insure it or possibly jack up the cost in an effort to deter the alteration.

If your problem now is cost, think about the cost if something happens going down the highway and your insurance company refuses to cover it because of non factory alterations.

 

I spent an hour on the phone with my insurance agent this morning. I really don't want to tell you that you are wrong, but, you are wrong. I suppose you would be right if the rig was only a few years old, with full coverage insurance, and valued at $30,000. However, my personal experience with insurance companies has proved they are not honest. My agent asked Progressive for a quote and they claim my 1992 camper has a NADA value of $1,170. This is a lie, I checked. So, I am taking my agent's suggestion and my truck's liability insurance will cover the camper when it is towed.

[GaryZ]

I googled toy haulers near me - found several and this one is pretty interesting

http://rv.campingworld.com/rvdetails/new-travel-trailer-toy-hauler-rvs/2017-crossroads-z-1-278rr-toyhauler-10k-SRV1286740

 

Nice. $15,000 of nice . . .

[GaryZ]

I've seen it done. On the car show circuit, a lot of guys carried bikes to get around some of the venues were sprawling (Carlise was almost 14 miles of roads in the fair grounds) Comments about frame rails are well taken. The one i saw had a 2" x 4" box tube under the existing frame rails using u-bolts similar to the square type used on big rig rear axles. The flooring was peeled back and the sub floor was treated to some 1"x6" cross laid to the sub floor ( 45") . He had gotten a door from a box truck and used half of it so it swung out. Last I saw he was talking about a winch because it was a real BI$#@H to load. when I saw it he had been on the road for 3 or 4 seasons and never had any other issues. He said he never hauled with the tanks full. He even went so far as to take the fresh tank off and plumb for site side water. I don't know for sure about moving anything else around. Us old car guys were pretty handy with the improvised engineering, to save a few bucks!! Home made campers and roll back on old pickups. Even saw a few extra long vans with tag axles!!

 

Hooray for us old car guys!!!

[Hummingbird]

@GaryZ - actually I'm glad you proved me wrong.

 

But remember you followed up with the ins. Co's are not honest. I really hope you have no issues that require ' those guys ' because I along with you wouldn't trust an adjuster very far.

[Hummingbird]

Nice. $15,000 of nice . . .

 

they had more than several used toy haulers, one was around $11k which is a fair price and I'd bet it could be bought for less.

a plug & play unit --

several years ago we bought a new toy hauler but we traded it the next year because the bed was over the garage and getting up and down a ladder at 2 or 3 in the morning just wasn't any fun.

had we got a longer hauler with a front br I sure things would have been different

[djh3]

I get one of his "have to haves" is A-inside plumbing B-separation between "normal" storage of bike/side by side/ golf cart or what have you. This is also one of my wifes must haves. I dont want the bike parked in my living room should I have or want to just stop for the night. We did the pop up and tent camping for years. The early morning or middle of the night trips down the lane to the wash room get old. Separate cargo space from living quarters is just plain hard to find in a tag along.

this looks something like the floor plan he is going to have to make.

It is by me ready made asking $15.500 keystone Cougar 300srx. Look into the "work and play" models. They are kind of utilitarian, but made on a cargo type frame set up and decent made. They have some that ave sliding door separating cargo space. I have seen some of those say 4-6 yr old with separation on CL around here for under 9k Good luck with your endeavor.

[videoarizona]

Dion, that is similar to what I looked at, at the RV show last week. The new ones are just like that but cost serious bux.

 

The issue I had was twofold:

 

1: I couldn't tow it with my Yukon XL with tow package.

 

2: I couldn't get either Venture into the garage due to the angle of the loading door. To sharp, they would bottom out.

 

Couldn't find a new rear door unit even close to my price range that looked like the above. I could buy a used 28 - 30 foot class A motorhome and a trailer for what they wanted for the new toyhaulers.

Edited March 14, 2017 by videoarizona
sp

[saddlebum]

Not sure if this was mentioned but a very important consideration is that with that much weight and overhang behind the axle you run a big risk of the trailer whipping out of control from side to side. Having experienced this and being extremely fortunate to regain control after whipping back and forth across two lanes I can tell you first hand you never want to get caught in that situation because the odds of regaining control like I was lucky enough to do are extremely unlikely. Someone was definitely looking over my shoulder that day.

[Flyinfool]

Gary I can fully appreciate your dilemma, it seems very close to mine. I have a lot more time, energy and skills that I do money.

 

Yes it is easy to say just go buy a used dedicated toy hauler. but sometimes the budget is just not there.

 

I have looked at a couple to convert into rear ramp type because I have yet to find a trailer that will hold a 1st gen sideways.

According to Yamaha specs A first gen is 2540mm or 100 inches long, the max outside dimension of a trailer in the USA is 103 inches before you need oversize permits. That leaves you just 1.5 inches for wall and ramp thickness on each side, and that is IF the bike is touching both side walls. It just aint gonna fit straight sideways, it will have to be angled.

 

FWIW

The front of the trailer has a much smoother ride than the back of a trailer. Due to the lever action the rear of the trailer can move double the height of the bump up and down when the wheels go over a bump in the road. The front of a trailer will move half the height of the bump.

 

That is why it is so critical to strengthen the frame back there, all of that weight moving at a greater distance and velocity makes for a pretty big hammer pounding on the back of the trailer.

[Hummingbird]

Dion, that is similar to what I looked at, at the RV show last week. The new ones are just like that but cost serious bux.

 

The issue I had was twofold:

 

1: I couldn't tow it with my Yukon XL with tow package.

 

2: I couldn't get either Venture into the garage due to the angle of the loading door. To sharp, they would bottom out.

 

Couldn't find a new rear door unit even close to my price range that looked like the above. I could buy a used 28 - 30 foot class A motorhome and a trailer for what they wanted for the new toyhaulers.

 

Besides climbing down a ladder to go pee the other issue was bottoming out. I had to crank the tongue WAY up to get the trike in without scraping bottom.

[djh3]

Dion, that is similar to what I looked at, at the RV show last week. The new ones are just like that but cost serious bux.

 

The issue I had was twofold:

 

1: I couldn't tow it with my Yukon XL with tow package.

 

2: I couldn't get either Venture into the garage due to the angle of the loading door. To sharp, they would bottom out.

 

Couldn't find a new rear door unit even close to my price range that looked like the above. I could buy a used 28 - 30 foot class A motorhome and a trailer for what they wanted for the new toyhaulers.

 

Yup I know what you mean on towing. I really liked the Outback brand toy haulers. But front cargo area, but ramp entry is steep. Maybe something like this is a better option.

[GaryZ]

Maybe something like this is a better option.

 

Very nice . . . for $2,600

Did I mention fixed income?

[djh3]

Fellow I talked to at Daytona said check in periodically as the do get folks that trade in for different truck etc. I have been on a fixed income ever since 1978 when I went in the USAF. I hear that all the time here in Fla by the retirees. Far as I can see everybody is on a fixed income. You cant make anymore than you get paid, with the few odd places that still pay overtime. These snow birds always pop off about a fixed income, but they are driving cars only a couple years old and have 2 households. One here and one up north somewhere. Guess their "fixed income" is fixed a lot higher than mine ever will be.

There are other loading systems out there similar that are less. I have seen them on you all tube.