Any help would be appreciated before I throw a match on my 86 Venture....

[Javenmcd]

Having flooding issues but I believe it's not the carburetors themselves...I've cleaned/rebuilt (gaskets, needle/seats) them and adjusted the floats twice (now set on the low side). The problem seems related to temperature and only seems to happen when warm. After I'd adjusted floats today I thought the problem was solved until I took it for a test ride. Seemed to run great for a mile or so then started bogging and seemed sluggish. I figured with the flooding issues I'd been having that maybe I'd fouled a plug or two so I made a plan to change them when the bike cooled. Went in the garage 1/2 hour later and there's a puddle of fuel underneath it. I THINK it came from the bottom of the black canister on the left side near the carbs. I pulled the hose that runs from top of that canister to the left front carb and it was visibly wet. Anyone have any ideas, theories or have any interest in a Venture that has a bunch of new parts on it? I'm ready to roll it into a field and drop a match in the airbox....help.

[rpep1982]

I wish I knew what was causing this problem but I don't however I bet there is someone here who does and you will have that 86 roaring down the road in no time. Step away from the matches! Good luck!

[Javenmcd]

Much appreciated but I'm not feeling very optimistic at this point. This forum has been awesome though....

[cimmer]

What did you actually replace in the carbs? did you replace the main nozzle and needle, the jet blocks plugs at the bottom of the jet block for starters as the can get loose and allow gas to leak into the float bowl and act like a bad float.

The main nozzle and needle will wear over time. The main nozzle can get to be an oblong hole instead of round as it should be with time. This allows gas to flow freely into the engine and will act like a bad float level. We have lowered the needle into the nozzle in the past and this helps for a while. When I first did this to my 89 VR, my mileage jumped up to about 45 MPH.. it has since dropped back to 40 MPH.

Does your bike run better when the weather is cooler? Mine is like a different bike when the temps are in the 50's having better acceleration then when the temps are in the 70's +. This is another sign that the nozzle needs replaced.

I am just being to get parts to completely rebuild the carbs and replace all of the wear items in them. I also order the carb rebuild DVD that Damon_Ferraiuolo@msn.com produced on rebuilding the carbs. He did it for the VMax but it is the same design as the VR carbs and is worth the money.. Send him an email and he will respond with prices and such. You can check out a bit of it on youtube also...

I also found some information on Vmaxforum.net with rebuilding the carbs there. Lots of information there that relates back to the VR.

Hope this helps

Rick F.

http://www.vmaxforum.net

[snyper316]

Much appreciated but I'm not feeling very optimistic at this point. This forum has been awesome though....

 

Trust me I feel your pain and aggravation, However It sounds like one of your bowl needles isn't seating properly, You need to pull air box pull lines off of vents start it up and let it run and see which one is overflowing then you know which one to tackle.

[Yammer Dan]

Keeping these babies clean without pulling them is the trick.

[Javenmcd]

Thanks for the input folks....here are a few other notes. The bike ran great until all 4 carbs started exhibiting the symptoms simultaneously which leads me to think that it's not related to a single carb. Strangely enough, I've pulled the vents and none of them ever overflowed....the main air jets on the intake sides of the carbs all spewed gas though. All 4 carb seats sealed and didn't leak by when I inverted them and blew into the fuel inlet pipes too.... Ugh....

[utadventure]

Have you checked that the fuel tank vent is clear?

[Javenmcd]

Haven't checked the vent yet...I was just looking at some other pages and saw that! It would be awesome if it was that easy! Is the vent at the top of the tank?

[cowpuc]

Some really good input thus far.. Hey Jav,, take us back to where it all began will ya.. Give us some back ground.. How long had the bike been sitting before you began this carb adjusting business? How long had it sat since it ran properly - has the bike ever ran properly for you or is this something that you inherited like this? Did you experience some major engine flooding that led you to redo the float height in the first place? Any hydralocking? Any chance you got fuel in the crankcase?

Never worked on an 86, not sure if this is applicable - MK1's have a black equalizing "air box" under the TCI - thinking Yamaha called a YSCI or something like that - maybe someone knows whether the 86 had em - maybe you know.. Is this the box your talking about getting fuel in? Racking my brains trying to understand what you are refering to - knowing what you are talking about there may lead to a solution.. I do know that fuel contaminated places where vacuum can pull fuel from can cause all kinds of strange things.. Had many 2 strokes get raw fuel in the crankcase from leaky float valves - run for second and foul the plug - or not ever start but have a soaked plug with gas off and carb drained - drive the unknowing (and even the trained mechanic too sometimes) nuts.. Also seen stuff like this with vacuum operated fuel regulator on a fuel rail or even vacuum operated petcocks if either lost the internal control diaphram letting fuel into the vacuum line where it ends up flooding the motor - sound like something you might be dealing with? Would sure like to know exactly what black canister your refering to - any chance you could snap a pic?? Raw fuel dripping anywhere,IMHO, is a good indicator of an overfueling source - might not be a bad idea to lazer focus on that!!

[cowpuc]

Haven't checked the vent yet...I was just looking at some other pages and saw that! It would be awesome if it was that easy! Is the vent at the top of the tank?

 

You can check it but it seems like a plugged tank vent is actually gonna cause starvation,, not flooding, cause the tank is in vapor lock if its vent is closed and fuel cant move.. The vent attaches to the top of the tank under that rubber piece that is wrapped around the fill spicket. If you remove the right side cover - you will see the vent hose running down the back bone of the bike and will see a small one way valve in it.. I have had that one way valve go south and cause vent loss - if you wanna check it you can remove the line on top of the valve, blow on the tube going up to the tank = should be open, suck on the connector on top of the valve and you should be able to draw thru it but not blow thru it..

Come to think of it,, I did have a Gold Wing (it was an 85 special - Hondas first shot at EFI - crazy thing had more wiring in its harness than the space shuttle) at the shop that was running lean enough that it ran hot enough that it boiled the fuel in the tank. If the fuel in one of our tanks ever got hot like that with that little one way valve in the vent line it could build pressure way beyond the 3 and 1/2 pounds the fuel pump applies to the float valves (I had a fuel pump go bad in the Utah Mountains one time and got out of there but running the vent line up to my mouth and keeping pressure with my breath = was plenty to keep the bowls full and keep er running - not very much pressure needed).. You aint got hole in exhausts blowing on the fuel tank have ya?

Stick with us and, like mentioned, keep those matches in your pocket - someone will hit the answer..

[frankd]

On my 89, I had random flooding issues when we were heading to a Rally 700 miles from home. Twice it was ok when first started, but after 30 minutes of riding, it would start running rich. I put it on the center stand, disconnected the fuel pump (there is an electrical connector underneath the back of left side cover that can be pulled apart) and then I started the engine and let it run until the carb bowls were empty. Then I reconnected the fuel pump and turned the key back on and pumped the carb bowls full. I repeated this a couple times. The bike ran good the rest of the trip. I reasoned that there was dirt getting on the carb needles and the rush of the gas filling the carbs was flushing them clean again. When we got home I pulled the fuel filter and carefully cut it apart so I could see what was inside it. What I found was that the paper element was no longer attached to the discharge side of the filter and all the crud the filter had trapped could get into the carbs. I installed a new filter and I haven't had that problem again. About a year before all of this I had rebuilt the carbs including replacing the needles and adjusting the floats so I was pretty sure everything else was ok.

[OrlinEngh]

Just wondering did you change the oil after it flooded and you did the work on the carbs, You could be over full on oil with the gas that made its way into the crankcase, And now when its getting warmed up its sucking it up into the air box. And parking it on the side stand it will settle in the left side of the air box.

[Flyinfool]

That black canister on the left side next to the carbs that you mentioned. If it is what I think you are describing then you have a California bike. That is extra emissions crap that is needed only for the Republic of California. There should never be gas in that canister and the canister is sealed so even if gas did get in there it should not leak out. You may have gas dripping onto the back side of that canister and then dripping off the front side so that it looks like that is where it is coming from. I never traced out the plumbing to that canister to see if there is even a place where gas could possibly get into it.

 

One of these days I am going to figure out how to replumb everything so I can get rid of that black canister, it is always in the way when working on that side of the bike.

[Javenmcd]

Here is the offending canister. There is an open nipple on the bottom that is dripping onto the frame rail.

 

Here's some history. Bought the bike in early Winter. The carbs were about the only thing that weren't giving me problems. The engine ran great for a while. I decided to treat it to some Seafoam in the fuel. A few days later it didn't want to re-start after being warmed up. It became evident that it was flooding (at this point I didn't know if it was one or all the carbs) so as was mentioned on the forum, I figured it has dislodged something into one of the seats. It did flood badly enough to hydrolock once which scared the crap out of me. The crankcase level never seemed to change in the sightless so I didn't change the oil. Pulled the carbs and carefully went through them per AndyE's detailed write up. Replaced the needles and seats with K&L sets. Set float levels (according to specs found here) and reinstalled. Ran the bike and it flooded on all 4 carbs badly....spewing fuel up out of the air bleed jets...I figured that I had the float levels wrong somehow. Re-pulled the carbs yesterday and set the float levels lower (1.125" inverted) and re-installed. Ran bike static in the garage for 1/2 hour and re-started several times....no fuel pump cycling and no flooding! Yay, right? Nope. Ran the bike for a mile and started bogging badly. I thought maybe I'd fouled plugs so made a plan to change them when the bike cooled. Managed to get it home and shut it down....let it sit for several minutes and flipped the key. The pump still did not cycle and still no flooding! Yay, right? Nope. 1/2 hour later I went in the garage and theres a puddle under the bike. I didn't even get to witness what in the world the problem was but that canister has fuel on the bottom nipple. I pulled the line that goes from the top of the canister to bottom of the left front carb and its moist with fuel. Flip the key and the fuel pump cycles several times.....Hope that helps in some way and I do appreciate the help you guys are offering but I'm losing trust and faith in this thing fast....

[videoarizona]

Is that big hose on the cannister connected to the fuel drain on the carb? I don't think it is as I think I see the two drain hoses sitting where they should be. So where does the big hose go?

 

Is there one cannister to each carb?

I don't have a California bike so this is new to me.

[Javenmcd]

The larger hose is connected directly to a large nipple on the bottom of the front carb (not the drain). The other carbs don't have this nipple. The other line Ts and runs and runs to 1) fuel tank vent and 2) the carb vents (which also T into the brass cylinder pictured in the 2nd image). Also worth noting when I've tried starting the bike when it was exhibiting the problem I've seen the nipple on on that brass cylinder actively SPEWING fuel onto the front cylinder bank (that's the front cylinder bank at the bottom of the 2nd image).

[Venturerscott]

ok, just a question as i have zero experience with these bike as of right now(ok a couple). on my 650 turbo(totally aware its a different breed of animal), there is a fuel pressure regulator for the pressurized carbs(bike currently buried at the moment, going from memory), does the venture also have an fpr? is it possible hat it is faulty, allowing the pump to over power the floats/needles? is it possible that gold part with the barb a fuel return to the tank? again, i wont claim to be knowledgeable about these machines, im just throwing out some ideas...

[Javenmcd]

Thanks Scott...from what I'm told that exposed nipple on the brass cylinder is not supposed to be connected to anything (based on what others have said about their bikes here). I don't know about a regulator but maybe one of the other guys reading this post does.....anyone?

[Javenmcd]

So I ran the bike for a quite a while today....no flooding while running but the idle is hanging. I checked for vacuum leaks unsuccessfully while it was running because it was bored. Shut it off and waited about ten minutes. Pulled the airbox lid and sure enough all four carbs are burbling. Is the fuel boiling for some reason? All my heat shields etc seem to be in place. I turn on the ignition and the fuel pump cycles and the carbs start to dump fuel. I pulled the vacuum line that runs from the front carb to the canister and it's dripping fuel from the carb nipple. I checked the tank vent and it seems fine. I pulled all four carb vents and none of them are venting fuel.

Ideas anyone?

 

SIDE NOTE....I just ran it again (it started reluctantly) and pulled the vacuum line thats on the carb and it didn't seem to make a difference in the way it ran. Should there be a vacuum at that point from the carb or should the line have a vacuum on it pulling AT the carb? So confused....

Edited March 9, 2017 by Javenmcd

[snyper316]

this set up is very foreign to me.... but where your line hooks up is where my advance goes to.... but right now I have that plugged but have never seen gas come out of there..... all the places and stuff you say you see fuel I have never seen fuel in those places....

[utadventure]

I'm glad the tank vent is clear. I haven't re-read the thread but have you sync'd the carbs since the rebuild? Also checking that none of the vacuum ports are plugged and that the caps or tube are good.

[Javenmcd]

Carbs haven't been synched since rebuild...but it is doing the same sort of thing it did pre-carb removal. My plan is to synchronize once I eliminate the flooding issue.

[BlueSky]

Is that canister a charcoal canister?

 

Our old 81 6 cyl Ford Granada back in the day was flooding when the engine was off. Finally figured out the charcoal canister was flooded and when the engine was shut off the canister was vented to the carb and heat from expansion was pushing the gas into the carb. I could look into the carb after shutting off the engine and see gas squirting into the carb. Could this be a similar situation?

[videoarizona]

Image 0690, right side pic......the brass thing looks like a fuel pump to me. One side is connected to something and the other spicket is wide open. Nothing connected to it. I say it "looks" like a fuel pump because our pumps are brass on the middle with a black end where the two hoses connect...one in from filter/tank the other out to the main fuel line that goes to all four carbs. There may even be a vent line to the side...don't remember.

 

The top has a black plastic case with wires coming out of it. That is where the fuel pump points are located.

 

So why is one side of the fuel pump (if it is that) not connected? And...why is the fuel pump there? isn't a first gen pump located down on the lower left part of the frame by the passenger foot rest??? An extra pump? Relocated? Am I nuts? (that is debateable but another story!!)

@cowpuc you see what I see?

Edited March 9, 2017 by videoarizona
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