New brakes?

[Homiachok]

I just got lucky and picked up 87 royale.

It was layed down at one point, but outside of few scratches it's in really good shape.

CLAAS system is showing E4, but I think I found enough info on here to troubleshoot properly.

Tires are about 16 years old, but I found a bunch of decent options online.

 

Outside of tires and fluid changes, I think I need to go through the bakes.

 

What brake pads do you guys recommend? I'm thinking I should also replace the rotors as they have quiet a bit of grooving going on. Which kind would you guys recommend? Where should I start shopping? The bike is 30 years old, should I also consider replacing brake lines?

 

Thank you!!

[cowpuc]

Wassup Homi!!!

Congrats on the new scoot and :welcome1:to VR!!!!! Glad you found us!!!

 

Before the hoards of lop eared Venture guru varmints around here start with their answers, let me do a little prying if ya dont mind? How long has the bike been sitting without being ran/ridden and does it run at all at this time, was it stored on its center stand, did you receive the correct paper work for it at purchase (check the VIN on the neck - nothing worse then putting a bunch of work/money into a bike you wont get to keep when finished = trust me. its happened more than once), how many miles showing on the odometer and are all the brake rotors showing wear (look carefully at rear and front left - tell us what you find)? Brakes - fluids may actually be the least of your concerns to start off with is why I ask all this. The more we know about your scoots current condition the more we can help

 

Also, pictures are worth a zillion words around this joint.. Not sure but I think "trial" members are allowed to post pics during their trial period ( @Freebird - is this a true statement?).. To post pics you will need to use smaller pics (usual problem with pic posting is pics are to large). Thinking 1000x500 or less (I use 750x480ish) is largest you can use.. I set my Digital camera on "economy" mode and those pics work great - also can use "MS Paint"for resizing if needed = VERY easy to do - if you find you need help with any of that in the future let me/us know (or search our main forum page - scroll down and LOTS of info down yonder for this) - more than happy to help..

Have purchased MANY non[running - setting for a long time - 1st Gens myself with under 30k on em and chased em out to over 300k after getting em up and going = AMAZING scoots once they are sorted out - YOU ON THE RIGHT PATH!! Dont give up on your bike or us if your serious about wanting to make er go and you run out of time on your "trial period". This site is AMAZING, filled with knowledge and expertise = well worth the 12 bucks for a years membership - not a salesmen for VR,, just know what I know and not afraid to say so!!!

All the best in your endeavor!!

Puc

[Homiachok]

 

*Thanks for the reply. I don't have much history on the bike. What I know is that it was layed down at some point and left front fork was bent. Previous owner got it from an auction, replaced forks and titled it as rebuilt. Last registered in 2014. There are few scratches and cracked tabs on the left side, but nothing major. The bike has been sitting in the garage for the last 3 years. The amazing thing is, it started right up with a new battery and I rode her home (about 25miles). Tires are really old and in a bad shape. Brakes seemed ok, but I feel like back is "stuck". The rear rotor was getting a little too hot without much braking. I'll try to take more pictures towards the end of the week.

*Ill definitely stay on as a member on this site once the trial thing ends. Just reading through some of the old threads gave me way more then $12 worth of info!

 

* The 20 min ride home with soft brakes and horrific tires, was absolutely amazing. I am extremely excited about getting her read ready and putting some miles on!

 

* This bike is just over 29k

[CaseyJ955]

I have no real wisdom on specific brand of pads but if the rotors are grooved up or heat discolored than an inspection of the calipers might be in order, make sure they arent hanging up. They may also be grooved up if the pads were allowed to wear down to the metal.

 

There are some good reads here on braided lines and delinking of the brakes, just for fun of course.

 

Great looking bike. Congrats!!

[cowpuc]

WOWZY WOW WOW HOMI - FROM WHAT I CAN SEE = SHE'S A DANDY!! Looking at the stock grips, noticing the exhaust shrouds still in place, seat condition , sider cover vents dont look to distorted and what appear to be fairly clean fork bottom sliders - gonna guess she REALLY does only have 29k on her = YOU DONE GOOD PARTNER!! I see MANY MANY great miles of smiles sitting right there!!!

 

? - how much wrench time ya got under your belt.. Been around carbed scoots or just scoots in general? Give us a resume on skill level..

 

If it were mine,, thinking this is what I would do...

I would center stand it, pull the side covers over the carbs and the lowers to expose carbs and pipes, pull the rear bag assembly (I only know MK1's as they are all I have owned = easy to remove one bag at a time, thinking on the MK2 like yours you can pull a few bolts and remove both bag assemblies and that rear cross piece in one piece - worth asking someone like Flyinfool , bongobobny , OrlinEngh (Orlin - Shrek and I were talking about this when you guys picked up my 86 - @Shrek would know but I dont think "Shrek" is his proper name?) , Marcarl , yammerDan or a host of others would know the answer to that.. Anyway, get the bags off it.. Pull the battery cover back off. Pull the seat off.. Pull the air cleaner cover and check the air filter area for mouse nesting. Pull the filter so I can look into carb. Under the seat and on top of the fuel tank your will find a cover that accesses the tank for the fuel sending unit. I would pull the cover - easy to do. Slide the sending unit out, take a pen light and look into the tank and see if the tank is rusted - if it is you will want to eventually remove it for sealing or replacement.. If it looks clean, wrap you finger along the inside edge for a quick rub to check for rust on the ceiling OR stick a mirror in there and check it.. If its dirty and appeared like its gonna be a problem (dont take much rust to cause major carb issues) - I would go ahead and syphon out the old fuel to begin the process BUT not refill at this time.. I would then detach the fuel line input at the fuel pump and hook er up to an "IV" (temporary tank). If clean inside, I would syphon the fuel out thru the tank top while I had er open and put some fresh fuel in her..

Now turn on key with the kill switch in the run position.. Listen for the fuel pump to click thru a cycle = should only run for a couple seconds. Flip the kill switch off and then back on and the fuel pump will cycle again. Keep doing this till the fuel pump clicking noise slows down and stops = this means the carbs are full and the float valves are working properly. As your working thru this process watch inside of the carbs very carefully with a pin light.. Pay special attention to the tops of the carb throats and around the metering rods sticking out of the slides.. Watch for any sign of fuel building in these areas indicating stuck floats or weak needle n seats. Also watch in front of the center stand under the bike. Matter of fact, look closely under there and locate the four over flow hoses coming from the carbs on the bikes back bone - you should find them infront of the shock/center stand. Watch those hoses carefully when cycling the fuel pump for any sign of over flow.. Once satisfied that all is good, open drain valve on one carb at a time, drain hoses for the carbs are located directly under outside cross members between outside of carbs (there actually held there in little windows). Pull a hose out of the window - open drain on corresponding carb,cycle fuel pump and bleed carb off real good into a small glass jar until you KNOW your getting good clean fresh fuel - close up drain and go to next one - do all of them. Now cycle fuel pump and recheck to make sure it will pump up to pressure and not leak fuel anywhere again.

Doing all the above before starting and running much more may save you from having to do a carb rebuild - its entirely possible that a previous owner drained the bowls on the carbs and your jets/internal carbs will be ok if they did..

Just getting started but fingers are getting tired.. I know its tempting to just take a shot a cleaning those calipers and taking her for a ride but trust me - it really is best to take it one step at a time so ya dont create more issues than necessary.. Maybe some one else will jump in here (GO FOR IT GUYS!!) and continue this essay before I get back here..

Hopefully this will get you headed in the right direction..

Puc

 

 

WOW - she is GORGEOUS!!

[bongobobny]

Great find my friend!!! If memory serves me, you want EBC 123 pads. When you replace the pads pay attention to the "pins" and make sure there is no damage to the surfaces as if they are worn or crud'ed up they will cause the pads to stick and not release...

 

A good source for the EBC pads is member Skydoc_17. Earl is one of our member vendors besides being one heck of a nice guy!

[BlueSky]

Beautiful bike! My favorite color!

[videoarizona]

Welcome to the nuthouse!

 

In addition to above:

 

Drain and put in new brake fluid in brakes and clutch masters and systems. All use Dot 3. Get vacuum bleeder from Harbor Freight. Easier to bleed. Note there is a bleeder just below steering stem, if memory serves. That bleeder is between rear brake and left front... which are linked. Right front is on right handlebar. Bleed rear first, then middle then left front. Note also rear master resevoir does not have a sight glass and the neck can break off if nut is frozen. Use WD to soak nut. Proper level is just below threads. Used rotors can be found on Ebay. Your bike is a 1st generation, Mk2. Most parts from 86-91 will fit.

 

Pull plugs and throw. I would also get new spark plug wire set. They are resistor wire sets and can be found on E bay as well. 5k ohm sets.

 

Clean all electrical connectors, put back together, then coat with dialectric grease to keep moisture out.

 

On lower left by passenger pegs in frame area is a plug with three white wires. Take apart and look for burning. They are the charging wires from stator to regulator. If they get dirty, they get hot and can burn or melt. Keep clean and you are good to go.

 

E4 error is a simple fix on the CLASS system. Take apart computer and resolder the larger solder joints and white connector goes into board. Pics and write ups in 1st gen tech section.

 

Download a copy of shop manual from this site.

 

Again, welcome! You have picked up one of the finest handling scoots around. Once you have gone over your bike and got it all sorted out, you will be pleasantly surprised at how fast it is and how comfortable for long rides!

 

david

Edited March 6, 2017 by videoarizona
Sp

[camos]

Great find my friend!!! If memory serves me, you want EBC 123 pads.

Specifically EBC FA123HH which are the double sintered hard pads. The same pad works for both front and rear.

[cowpuc]

Continued from post 5 -

Satisified 3 years of storage had not compromised the tank and the carb bowls were not over flowing from plugged float valves and/or the jet circuitry isnt plugged, I would now take a long screw driver - reach down into the throat of carbs and gently open the slides one at a time - release them and make sure they return to full bottom without sticking. Next I would pinch off the line coming from the anti freeze res down at the Rad cap, snap off that little keeper under the rad cap that always gets in the way of removing the cap and pull the cap - take a look inside and see if she still has juice in there.. Now I would pull the drain on the water pump - drain the system, release the clamp on the hose and let the res empty too. Put the plug back in and refill the system with good stuff. Next I would do an oil change - complete with new filter so that 3 year old paper filter that may be disinigrating in the filter canister has no chance of ruining a good motor when I fire her up. Now I would replace the plugs as suggested by Video Arizona. Now I would cycle the fuel pump again and bring the carbs all the way to full again - slip the choke to full open - push the button and start er up.

I would move her off choke as quickly as possible to keep from fouling my new plugs. While she's sitting there idling I would look down at the oil check window and see what kind of oil flow I was getting from the oil pump while I "spit check" the headers for tempt to make sure she is hitting on all four (can also be done with temp laser but spit checking like a hot iron is more fun). Satisfied she's running on all four and now having the choke fully off - I would wick up the throttle and watch the carb slides dance to make sure they are all bouncing somewhat equally.. I would also take a peak at the voltage gauge on the dash, I would watch to see if she drops down to 12 volts at idle and climbs somewhat close to 14 volts at a throttle twist. I would run it - variating the R's with the throttle up to tempt until the cooling fan comes on just as the temp gauge needle passes into the red. I would let the fan run until it pulls the needle down to normal range - knowing these scoots like to run at 3/4 needle on the temp gauge. Temp looks and functioning good, I would wick on her a couple times and shut er down.. Now I would replace the air filter and cover and hook up the sync gauges on the carbs and sync em out (not fully necessary at this time if ya dont have gauges - just something I would do).

Now I would press down on the rear brake and release it. The center stand will be holding the rear wheel off the ground and I would reach back and spin the rear wheel to see if the rear brake is sticking. If it is I would open the bleeder on the caliper and see if doing so releases the rear brake. If it does I would clean the back flow orfice in the rear master. If releasing pressure at the bleeder doesnt help I would smack the caliper with a rubber mallet and knock the pistons to the point that the caliper relaxes. With the caliper relaxed, remove the support bolts and slide the caliper away from the rotor and remove it. I would now pull the pads, press down on the rear brake pedal and watch the pistons carefully to see who is sticking.. I would carefully work the pistons out to just over a full pads length and then proceed to clean them one at a time by wrapping a strip of t-shirt material around them - sprayed with carb or brake cleaner I would pinch the material around the pistons and clean em real good. Look carefully for pitting/marring on the pistons.. Force the pistons back in and them push them back out with the pedal and redo.. Do until all the pistons are moving freely.. Now do the front brakes - remember that the left front is linked to the rear pedal. Right front is front lever. Complete the brake going thru with a complete fluid change like mentioned. Easy and cheap insurance!! Now I would order up a set of new pads like Bongo mentioned - personally I would stay away from high end - long wear pads and stick with organics cause I LOVE the feel in braking they provide BUT that is just personal preference. I would also carefully clean the pins like Bongo mentioned and also make sure you have the tin keepers back in place correctly that ride on top of the pads. Another thing I would check carefully is the fit of the new pads into the calipers. I have discovered on many occasions that even the paint on new pads can be just enough to cause the pads to stick in the calipers. Just make sure the pads move freely on the pins and in the calipers as the pistons force em out.

Now I would take a peek at those GORGEOUS white letter Dunlop "E-2"s you got on there.. WOW I miss those tires!! Anyway, I would check em closely to see if they could handle a few hundred miles of test riding.. If so I would air em up - 45 in the rear, 42 in the front.

As mentioned by Video Az = Pull the cover on the clutch hydraulics at the master and the rubber cover down at the slave - I would carefully bleed in a fresh fluid swap there and when done, I would - again carefully so I dont squirt fluid all over - I would work the clutch lever lightly and watch the bleed back orfice in the bottom of the res to make sure it was open and working properly.. Satisfied I would button up res and pull the clutch a few times making sure I had good clutch.

 

Put the seat back on, leave the tank cover - saddle bags - side covers off I would head out for a real good test ride.. Satisfied all was well in the steering and "Feel" of the bike having been in an accident and knowing for sure I had what seemed like a really good chance at a bike with TONS of great miles in her (which I have NO doubt - you do!!). I would drop the air pressure out of the front forks while out playing with it.. Stand the bike up right and look down at the fork seals - notice how much distance between the fork seals and the lines on the fork tubes indicating bottom travel.. Is it less then 2 1/2 inches? Time for Progressive Springs if it is (and it probably is - they have ink pin springs from the factory in there).

 

Head home, climb on Ebay or Amazon or where ever.. Order a new set of tires of your liking, some Progressives, some 12.5 weight fork oil..

 

While waiting for those products to come - I would pull the covers on my carbs and thouroughy check the diaphrams for pin holes. Look carefully where the diaphrams come into contact at the carb body - they love to crack in that area. Also check any creases in the rubber material for pin holes. I have found Yama Bond 5 to be the best sealent for patching pin holes - have ridden successfully thousands of miles on repaired diaphrams.. Replacing em is an option too. When putting the slides back in, I like to put my finger in em and feel their slide action carefully - looking for any sign of tightness.. Cleaning the carb body where the slide glides with a rag and carb clean will usually make em slide nicely.. Make sure the little o-ring is in place on where the carb cover meets the body before replacing.. Button er up and redo a carb sync.

 

Spoon on the new tires but pull the drive shaft - check the universal and grease the shaft splines when ya do. Also grease the drive pins down on the rear wheel and the drive gears where the rear wheel meets the rear end.. Make sure you have the spacer in place between the rear wheel bearing on the drive side and slip the wheel back on. Make sure you have the spacer for the rear caliper mount on the outside of the mount when you slide the axle in so the caliper mount doesnt pinch the caliper..

 

Drain the forks, pull the caps, pull the ink pen springs, drop in the progressives, set the pre-load at 1 inch using either PVC or Copper (I like Copper). Refill with fresh fluid..

 

Follow the instructions of Video Arizona on putting in new wires and repairing the Class issues to get her perfect!

 

Put the covers back on her, slip a sleeping bag on the back end and head for places unknown..

 

Hope that all helps in your "gettin er road ready" endeavor!!

 

Puc

[Homiachok]

Thank you guys very much for all the info! Puc, thank you for taking the time to type all of that up!

As far as my skill lever goes, I'm practically new to all of this, but eager to learn.

I haven't had any time really work on the bike yet except a few things

I got the CLASS board out. Someone had already done a hack job on it, so instead of making it worse I took it to local electronic repair shop. For $20 guy went through all the connections. I put it back on the bike this morning and bam! It works like a charm!

I took the side panels and saddlebags off. I'm missing all of the carb drain hoses, so I'll have to reinstall something before I drain the carbs. (I found Puc's youtube video and it made that very clear)

I'll have to find that security socket to check diaphragms this weekend.

 

Coolant reservoir is is pretty much empty, with some nasty stuff swimming on the very bottom.

 

I removed the rear caliper and two and two out of four pistons are stuck. Ill see if I can get them cleaned up and working this weekend without doing complete overhaul.

 

One problem I see so far is getting to the fuel filter. I searched this forum and found a few tips, so hopefully it won't be as bad when I get to that.

 

Puc, thanks again for all the tips, I'll definitely follow those steps!

[ddoggma]

so lucky... i got mine for 1500 bucks off CL. was nice, not as nice as yours. Have fun, and respect her. They are fast and heavy, low speed parking lot stuff is your hardest hurdle.

Bike is a wee bit top heavy. My bike does not owe me a dime, had her a while now. At this point its gonna outrun me.......

[cowpuc]

Your welcome Homi - hope something in there helps in some way.. About those security screws on the carb covers.. Personally I would keep the money I would spend on a security screw bit (Harbor Freight does carry a cheap set though), take a small punch and nock that little center piece out of the screw and use an allen wrench to remove the screws (can also use a small vise grip or even a center punch at an angle on the side of the screw to break it loose if your careful). Now take your money - go down to Ace Hardware and either pick up 4 new normal screws to replace those security screws with OR,, get fancy shmancy like some of these guys do and spend the cash for a complete set of stainless allens.. Either way works..

Another word of advice,, if ya got a left over screw collection jar (come on,, admit it,,, your one of us,,, I KNOW ya got a left over screw jar) DO NOT put those security screws in there - if you do = EVERY TIME YOU GO TO YOUR JAR TO FIND A SCREW YOU KNOW WHAT THE FIRST THING IN YOUR HAND WILL BE!!!

[CaseyJ955]

I really like the allens, they dont seem to be prone to strip as conventional phillips heads and removal/replacement is a snap. I also used a vice grip to remove the old screws that were security head or stripped. Its easy to break them loose w/o scarring the lids with a little care. Mine is 89 so I was not shocked that only one of the diaphragms was ok. If yours are shot there is an ebay seller out of the UK that sells a set of 4 for

 

Im putting more $ into mine than I had hoped but its still a bargain all things considered.

 

I hope the brake fix works. I just replaced all 3 calipers with R6 calipers, they all had at least a couple sticky pistons.

[bongobobny]

Fuel filter is best serviced with rear tire off!

 

Now, a VERY important word to you! The phillips screws on Japanese bikes are JIS standard, NOT American standard. Do NOT use ASE screwdrivers on metric phillips screws as the angle of the teeth is different and I guarantee you will damage and/or strip the heads out!!! Buy yourself a good set of JIS screwdrivers, numbers 0 through number 4...

[Homiachok]

So I finally got a chance do some work on the bike. I followed all of Pucs suggestions. Class system was resauderred in local electronics shop and working just fine. I ended up replacing all the seals in the rear caliper and bleeding all brakes/lines. Clutch was bled also and working much better. Tank and carbs are in good shape. Replaced engine oil and filter. Put new Shrinkos on and went for a short ride . Seems like I have a small leak at rear valve cover gasket. How much of a pain is it to replace that? Where would I get new gasket? (Can't seem to find them online). Also, one of the forks seems to have a bunch of small gauges and looks like it may be leaking a tiny bit of oil ): . Should I attempt to replace the seals, or just start looking for new forks? Thanks in advance guys!

[CaseyJ955]

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1987/XVZ13T/CYLINDER%20HEAD/parts.html

 

A good source for parts, I've ordered a few things, it's OEM stuff.

[gaj1917]

Seems like I have a small leak at rear valve cover gasket. How much of a pain is it to replace that? Where would I get new gasket? (Can't seem to find them online). Also, one of the forks seems to have a bunch of small gauges and looks like it may be leaking a tiny bit of oil ): . Should I attempt to replace the seals, or just start looking for new forks? Thanks in advance guys!

 

Replacing the valve cover gaskets is a bit of a bear, but doable. There’s not a lot of room to maneuver in there. Do you have a service manual? It would be very useful. Lots of valve cover gaskets on eBay. Replacing fork seals can be done without removing the forks, which makes the job a whole lot easier. I have an instructional video link somewhere, but can't find at the moment. If you're interested I'll look further.

[CaseyJ955]

The seals and gaskets are fairly cheap compared to the amount of work involved in replacement. In my experience aftermarket seals and gaskets (and sooo many other things) are vastly inferior to OEM parts. It's worth the few extra bucks to make sure your getting OEM stuff and you wont have to redo the job anytime soon. For me anything made in China is an automatic no way. Yamaha dealer prices are usually quite lofty but not always, I get plenty from boats.net and been pretty happy. I rebuilt my forks completely using parts from them and it was considerably cheaper than Yamaha dealer and I still got Yamaha OEM quality parts.

Here is a youtube walkthrough for the Venture forks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Alwqf8Wqkfs.

 

While your in there that far it's not a bad time to check steering head bearing adjustment. Unless it's silky smooth it might need some attention. Mine were tattered with 70k on the clock so I replaced the whole set. http://www.allballsracing.com/22-1004.html its aftermarket but known good stuff. I have read that some folks take them apart just enough to work some grease into them and assemble/adjust. I'm OCD and they were bone dry on my bike so I replaced all, I want the smoothest ride I can get and these bearings being worn or out of adjustment can directly eff up ride quality and make it feel sloppy and nervous at low speeds. Worth a look anyway while your in there.

This is on steering neck bearings. All these old corny Yamaha maintainance videos are a kick, with the old music and porn-stache guy but they are excellent, theres a lot of them out there from this series and they are all quite valuable aside from being...umm... dated.