The metamorphose of a 84 Venture into an AD-Venture Bike

[Spokane Dave]

Hello. . . All

 

I picked up this 84 XVZ12L for a song last fall, and due to the crappy plastics / heavy crap they pile on these bikes, as well as the new found desire to build a custom bike = I am now in the process of stripping it down and converting it to an AD-VENTURE Dual Sport machine or more commonly called Mad Max bike / Rat Bike / or perhaps may turn into some sort of Steam Punk look . . . Plan is to go to kind of a scambler style with as agressive of tread I can get, and I am going to paint the entire bike Flat Black.

 

 

Shortly after I picked it up and cleaned it up, as nice as it looks - there were a LOT of cracks in the plastics at connecting pionts, so I decided it needed to become a naked bike

 

The more you take off = The sexier this bike looks !!! Not to mention all the weight that is getting removed

 

I have eliminated the big #$%^& air box and have gone with some simple air filters. Bike started and ran "fairly Well" I have since removed the carbs and thoroughly cleaned them out, but am going to do valves and a few other things before re-installing the carbs. If carbs end up needing total rebuild / Diaphragms etc. I am going to make a 4 into one intake and will be converting it to a 2 barrel carburetor.

 

I have removed the funky air box on top of the front cylinder that the Exhaust ports vent to and will be plugging the ports in the engine with 1/4 /20 /3/4" Allen head bolts and a little RTV.

 

The fuse block is absolutely shot, so I will be updating that with a new one with newer style blade fuses.

 

 

I have been divulging through all the tech info on the sight, but have a few questions for you guru's

 

1. In removing the airbox I have eliminated a place for the engine case vent to insert into for re-circulation through the engine, any suggestions what I can do with the vent line = PCV Valve or ?

 

2. There is a small rubber hose coming from the cooling system where the fan / temp sensors are, and it goes down to the same cover between the Cylinders that the case vent comes from. What the Heck is that hose for from the cooling system?

 

3. Considering the bikes name = AD-Venture - I am hoping to find an aggressive tread pattern for the tires, but as we all know 16" are a rare commodity in the MC tire industry, so if anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate it. Clearly they need to be sufficiently weight rated and speed rated for at least a buck and a quarter (125mph) or preferably higher, as while I am getting old I am still a throttle junkie who loves triple digit riding when the rural open country environment allows it.

 

4. I am going to do the valves in the next couple days when I can find the spare time. I was wondering if there is any "custom Creations" people have made that work like the Yamaha tool for removing the valve shims without the need of unbolting the cams like I have to do on the Connie and KLR?

 

5. The Bike came with a complete set of MARKLAND Crash bars / Floorboards with highway Bars / floorboards as well.

I am going to be removing the Markland system and reverting back to stock footpegs due to the type of riding I will be doing to allow for more sure footing / not so wide a stance.

We have a salvage yard here, but they are still buried under a foot plus of snow, so it may be a few weeks before I can get in there and see if they have the stock pegs I need.

 

Trying to nail down what goes with the Markland setup and what I need to get to get back to stock footpegs:

 

I see on the left side where all I will need is the footpeg as the cradle is still there, and the back half of the shifter system will be removed as it is a part of the markland system, so as far as I can tell all I need is the left footpeg for the left side. Can anyone confirm that?

 

Left Side:

 

The right side however is a different story. There is a plate with peg mounted to it for braking that will be removed with the markland system - Does the right footpeg bracket and peg just bolt in where the plate and peg is in the picture?

 

Right side:

 

I looked around and could not find any of the vintage Markland sets for sale, as they where made in the 80's and no longer available from what I have derived.

I am going to be selling the complete Markland after market Crash bar / floorboard setup, so any suggestions as to what a fair price is would be appreciated. They are not removed yet, but are in remarkable condition as you can see just a little dusty. They are pretty heavy I would imagine so shipping may not be to cheap ? If anyone is interested in the set let me know. Would be more economical to just pick them up personally if you happen to live in the beautiful Pacific North West.

 

6. I see the front forks have what appear to be anti fork dive system is this what this is ?

I see where the back brake applies the rear and front left brakes, and the front applies the right front.

I made an attempt to bleed these when bleeding the brake system with a vacuum bleeder but it did not appear to bring any fluid out?

Am i Missing something?

 

 

 

I am sure there will be more questions, but that's all I have for now. . . . and I thank any and all in advance for any info / or insight you can give me.

 

Make it a GREAT DAY!!!

 

Stay tuned and watch this crazy creation come to life !

Edited March 3, 2017 by Spokane Dave

[Pegasus1300]

Welcome. For what you are going to be doing I would remove the anti dive units,put a block off plate over the hole and run the hoses direct to the calipers. Then replace your fork springs with Progressive Springs,great improvement. Get hold of Rick at Buckeye Performance and get a new set of SS brake lines that will de link your front/rear brake. Second great improvement. A proper shift lever should be easy to find,the one you have looks like it all goes together. I don't think you'll have any trouble selling your floor boards on Ebay,ask maybe $100.00.Bikebandit will give you a parts diagram of what you need to put the foot pegs back to stock. Others will chime in on the carb modifications. Good luck and post lots of pictures as you go along

[zagger]

1. In removing the airbox I have eliminated a place for the engine case vent to insert into for re-circulation through the engine, any suggestions what I can do with the vent line = PCV Valve or ?

 

Hey Dave, Good question since the blowby muck does need to go someplace. I ran my vent line into a sealed metal bottle which was set up to separate the muck from the gases. The muck stays in the bottle so that it can be cleaned out when I'm in the mood. Here is a picture of my Venture:

 

zag

[Spokane Dave]

Welcome. For what you are going to be doing I would remove the anti dive units,put a block off plate over the hole and run the hoses direct to the calipers. Then replace your fork springs with Progressive Springs,great improvement. Get hold of Rick at Buckeye Performance and get a new set of SS brake lines that will de link your front/rear brake. Second great improvement. A proper shift lever should be easy to find,the one you have looks like it all goes together. I don't think you'll have any trouble selling your floor boards on Ebay,ask maybe $100.00.Bikebandit will give you a parts diagram of what you need to put the foot pegs back to stock. Others will chime in on the carb modifications. Good luck and post lots of pictures as you go along

 

 

Curious as to why to remove the anti dive system?

Is it faulty or ?

 

I probably have the parts laying around to separate the front / rear brake system

 

If you look a the picture - the rear portion you see on the shifter does in fact come off and goes with the Markland set.

 

Been looking at pics online but not that familiar with this bike in particular so lacking in confidence as to what is needed to get the pegs back to stock

[zagger]

4. I am going to do the valves in the next couple days when I can find the spare time. I was wondering if there is any "custom Creations" people have made that work like the Yamaha tool for removing the valve shims without the need of unbolting the cams like I have to do on the Connie and KLR?

 

Dave,

Here is a picture of the tool (and some shims) I made using a small piece of phenolic (mine was fabric filled) but I imagine that you could use metal or something else.

zag

[Spokane Dave]

Hey Dave, Good question since the blowby muck does need to go someplace. I ran my vent line into a sealed metal bottle which was set up to separate the muck from the gases. The muck stays in the bottle so that it can be cleaned out when I'm in the mood. Here is a picture of my Venture:

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=108560

zag

 

You know. . . It's kind of ironic you chimed in

Pics of your bike floating around online is what got me steering in the direction i am with the customization LOL

 

As for the engine vent - I actually have the very same system you mentioned that a guy in Northern Idaho invented back in the 70's / 80's for old v8 engines. Separates the oil / vapor / blow by etc. = collects oils in removable canister and allows vapor back through carburetor.

I thought about using it but it is not to sleek shall we say for the bike.

 

With your system - where does the gases line go ?

[Spokane Dave]

Thanks for the pics / idea Zagger

 

Kindofa - playwithit - tillyagetit thing I would imagine

 

Any avenues for the shims if needed other then Yamaha dealer

 

Also - curious as to your suggestions for prepping the entire bike surface areas prior to painting - had a guy suggest using brake clean on it - any suggestions ?

[zagger]

I have eliminated the big #$%^& air box and have gone with some simple air filters. Bike started and ran "fairly Well"

 

Dave,

If you compare the pressure drop of the stock air box and your replacement filters, I believe that you will discover that the new filters have a lower pressure drop than the stock setup. Problem is that the carbs are designed to work with the stock filter box not your new filters. Perhaps this difference can be handled with some internal carb changes - or maybe not. Years ago, when I did my mods, it didn't seem like there were carb modifications available to handle the inlet filter pressure changes. I fixed the situation by putting airflow restrictors (basically large washers with a machined ID) inside each filter. I did quite a few airflow pressure drop calculations in an effort to figure out what was needed. Here is a picture which shows my intake filters. The bottle in between the intakes is the crankcase "schmutz" collector which traps junk from the crankcase (I probably should mention that I also have a filtered fresh air inlet to supply fresh air into the crankcase).

zag

[zagger]

With your system - where does the gases line go ?

 

Dave,

The inlet into the collection bottle is on the bottom of the bottle. Inside the bottle, the inlet fitting sticks up 2 or 3 inches above the bottom of the bottle. The outlet for gases is on the side of the bottle close to the top. The outlet connects to a hose which is routed down below the engine (to outside air).

It is pretty easy for me to see the system work. I originally put a clear window over the clutch - just for the "cool" factor of seeing it whizzing around. When the engine is cold, quite a bit of visible blow-by schmutz can be seen on the window. After running down the road - allowing the engine to warm up and some air flow through the crankcase - the window becomes completely clear. The total amount of blow by collected in the bottle isn't huge. It can be easily wiped out with about 1/2 of a typical paper towel - I made a crude pair of metal "tweezers" to reach inside the bottle and hold the towel.

zag

[zagger]

Also - curious as to your suggestions for prepping the entire bike surface areas prior to painting - had a guy suggest using brake clean on it - any suggestions ?

 

It probably depends on what you plan to paint it with. I used rattle can Krylon flat black (ULTRA flat actually!) - this paint is both easy to spray and easy to patch up with new paint - but easy to damage with some solvents. Cleaning metal parts with soap & water and/or a solvent like acetone or MEK is likely to be good enough. I'm not an expert painter but I make up for it by using paints which are easy to touch up with fresh coats. Actually, it surprises me how well my crappy painting has weathered lots of outdoor exposure over nearly 10 years. I guess that the paint job on a "ratbike" should have a certain level of rattiness! Of course, I painted parts on a piecemeal basis - when the part was completed, I painted it. I cannot imagine trying to get a professional paint job done on all of the parts as you slowly complete each little thing.

Just so you know, inhaling paint fumes is not good. For routine painting of small parts, I made a crude spray paint "booth" out of a large cardboard box with ductwork and a fan to vent the fumes out a basement window. I would spray a part, close the cardboard flaps, and let the paint dry while the fan vented fumes outside.

zag

Edited March 3, 2017 by zagger

[Flyinfool]

Sounds like fun.

As mentioned, anytime you mess with the air filter or air box the carbs do not like it. You will have to either rejet or do like Zagger and restrict air or maybe a combination of both.

 

I also made my own Valve tool, I originally copied the Yamaha tool, but that was very hard to machine. So I redesigned it to work the same but was a lot easier to make.

[bongobobny]

OK, a word or two on the front forks and anti-dive. On the MK1 (that is the '83 - '85 Venture and Venture Royale) the anti-dive solenoids are a hydraulic system that moves the plunger to restrict the flow of shock oil so the shocks stiffen up when you apply the brakes. As the name says, it slows down the dive of the front end when braking which helps handling while braking. On the MK2 ('86 - '93) the hydraulic power robbing solenoids were replaced with electric solenoids that are triggered via a relay when the brake light comes on. Switching to Progressive brand front fork springs does indeed stiffen up the suspension so that the dive when braking is not as drastic. The anti-dive system still does restrict the front shocks but is not as noticeable as with the stock springs.

 

So, let's talk front brakes! The stock MK1 front brakes are anemic at best! They are a 2 piston system that got replaced with more efficient and more effective 4 piston calipers! The spacing for the caliper bolts on the MK1 is 86mm whereas the spacing on the MK2 forks is 100mm. Now, there are even better calipers than the MK2 calipers that will bolt right onto the 100mm spacing. These calipers are from either a Yamaha R/1 or R/6 made in the very late 90's and early 2000's. There are two versions of the R/1 and R/6, blue dots and gold dots. The gold dots are preferred as they have anodized aluminum pistons as opposed to the blue dots which have steel pistons, which are prone to rust and sticking. So, if you want to improve your braking power, ditch the hydraulic anti dives in favor of electrical ones and get better calipers for the front as well. Actually, all you need is the bottoms for the forks as the uppers and guts are virtually the same on the early MK2's, and compatible with the different guts for the later MK2's.

 

Now, you do know that the rear brake and the one front caliper are linked?? If you are having difficulty bleeding the one side of the front brakes, it is because you are using the wrong brake. Some people like the linked brakes, others do not and convert the brakes to a more conventional non-linked system. There are definite advantages and disadvantages of both linked and non-linked brakes and it is up to you to decide which system you prefer.

 

If you decide to switch out the fronts for better brakes, you will also have to change your rotors as the MK1 and MK2 are not compatible size wise. The MK2 rotors are slotted and cross-drilled for more efficiency, and bolt right on to the MK1 rim, which is the same rim.

 

I see others have already advised you about the air flow differential that you will need to address if you want the bike to have any kind of decent performance. You can orifice the output with washers as Zagger mentioned, or you can play with re-jetting the carbs, which ends up being a trial and error affair. You can monitor your mixture with either a CO sniffer on each exhaust looking for that perfect 5.1 exhaust mixture or with a color tune plug which lets you look at the color of the exploding mixture...

 

For the fuse block, contact member Skydoc_17 who is one of our vendors here, he makes a ready made kit to replace your fuse block! He is also a great source for lots of other parts!! Just tell Earl Bongo sent you!

[snyper316]

I say heck with paint and light it up like a christmas tree.

[CaseyJ955]

I love the customs!

 

When you remove the restrictive factory airbox and go with free flowing filter/s the carbs dont like it. Another option to correct that is to get some restrictors for the carbs and that should make it right again. I went with a filter lid on my Vmax, ditching the factory lid and K&N and I had to use them on mine. I got them from Sean Morley (Morleys Muscle) over on the VMax forum or facebook. They are normally part of his jet kit for the Vmax that are needed once one of his free flowing airbox lids are installed. I have that setup and it rocks! You can buy the restriction separately.

 

I said restrictors, I should have said air correctors, little brass plugs with a tiny orifice that presses into the top air inlet port on top of each carb.

Edited March 4, 2017 by CaseyJ955

[Patmac6075]

If I can offer one piece of advice.....get your engine running the way you want it before you spend tons of time and money making it look cool!

Nothing worse (IMHO) than spending countless hours making it look cool, just to be left with a sputtering, chugging, hard starting, power plant.

As others have pointed out these engines don't run better when you "let them breathe". Those countless Japanese engineers knew what they were doing when they designed the airbox/filter and the exhaust collector.

These engines are fast, powerful and dependable in stock form....I'm not trying to be "purist" here, and I'm all for making your bike, YOUR BIKE....just keep in mind the pitfalls of changing the intake and exhaust.

Just my two cents...

As you were.

[BlueSky]

Spokane Dave, Would you give us a review of your motorcyle lift. It looks like a great tool to have! Thanks!

[zagger]

Hey Dave,

I thought that I should pass on one thought that you might want to keep in the back of your mind during your building process. The Venture engine is relatively "flat" compared to other motorcycle engines and its weight sits fairly low. Meaning that the overall motorcycle CG (center of gravity) can be quite low if all the other stuff can be removed. A low CG is very nice since it makes the overall bike weight seem to be much lighter than it really is. Compared to a Vtwin cruiser that I own (which actually weighs less), my Venture feels much lighter from the rider's perspective. So - my suggestion is to remove whatever you can and move anything heavy (like the battery) to a position as low as possible. For example, I moved my battery down below the transmission just to help with this.

zag

[Spokane Dave]

Dave,

If you compare the pressure drop of the stock air box and your replacement filters, I believe that you will discover that the new filters have a lower pressure drop than the stock setup. Problem is that the carbs are designed to work with the stock filter box not your new filters. Perhaps this difference can be handled with some internal carb changes - or maybe not. Years ago, when I did my mods, it didn't seem like there were carb modifications available to handle the inlet filter pressure changes. I fixed the situation by putting airflow restrictors (basically large washers with a machined ID) inside each filter. I did quite a few airflow pressure drop calculations in an effort to figure out what was needed. Here is a picture which shows my intake filters. The bottle in between the intakes is the crankcase "schmutz" collector which traps junk from the crankcase (I probably should mention that I also have a filtered fresh air inlet to supply fresh air into the crankcase).

zag

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=108563

 

 

 

Loving all the input / replies, and if I cannot resolve the intake air pressure issue I am not totally ruling out the airbox, just would prefer to do with out it.

 

I figured I was going to add some oiled / foam slips over the filters to adjust for that and the dirt conditions I will most likely be riding in, but that is still an issue I had not gotten to / resolved yet due to progression of the build.

 

I realize you most likely are using different air filters, but curious what brand you use, and what I.D. did you end up with the washers on your filters, as this could save me the R&D

 

 

 

F.Y.I. = I am making sure the engine is running properly before investing to much time / money - Just getting started on it now, and as soon as I get back from the dentist today I will be checking the Valves then refitting carbs and starting the old girl back up again

[cowpuc]

LOVING this thread and wishing you ALL the best Spokane!!! Got TONS of great input happening around here as always - WAYYY AWESOME!!

 

Gotta say this comment right here =

"""F.Y.I. = I am making sure the engine is running properly before investing to much time / money - Just getting started on it now, and as soon as I get back from the dentist today I will be checking the Valves then refitting carbs and starting the old girl back up again"""

 

is exactly where my mind would be - very very wise move IMHO!!!!

 

Get er done Spokane!!

Puc

[zagger]

Loving all the input / replies, and if I cannot resolve the intake air pressure issue I am not totally ruling out the airbox, just would prefer to do with out it.

 

I figured I was going to add some oiled / foam slips over the filters to adjust for that and the dirt conditions I will most likely be riding in, but that is still an issue I had not gotten to / resolved yet due to progression of the build.

 

I realize you most likely are using different air filters, but curious what brand you use, and what I.D. did you end up with the washers on your filters, as this could save me the R&D

 

 

 

F.Y.I. = I am making sure the engine is running properly before investing to much time / money - Just getting started on it now, and as soon as I get back from the dentist today I will be checking the Valves then refitting carbs and starting the old girl back up again

 

Hey Dave,

I checked my notes and calculations from years ago and decided I better pull off a filter just to be sure that I didn't give you bad information. The washer ID is 1" and each carb has its own filter. My filters are K&N and look like this one: http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?prod=RU-2580

I'm not sure of the K&N part number, but you would need to use one that fits your intake anyway. These filters are cleanable and need to be sprayed with a special K&N filter oil after cleaning.

zag

 

[snyper316]

Hey Dave,

I checked my notes and calculations from years ago and decided I better pull off a filter just to be sure that I didn't give you bad information. The washer ID is 1" and each carb has its own filter. My filters are K&N and look like this one: http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?prod=RU-2580

I'm not sure of the K&N part number, but you would need to use one that fits your intake anyway. These filters are cleanable and need to be sprayed with a special K&N filter oil after cleaning.

zag

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=108586

 

Just to pick on ya, looks like the other 3 need to be pulled and cleaned;

[zagger]

Just to pick on ya, looks like the other 3 need to be pulled and cleaned;

 

It only looks dirty due to the lighting in the picture. These filters can hold quite a bit of crud and none of them are due for a cleaning anytime soon. Of course, since they sit out in the air right in front of the rider, it is easy to notice when they are due. I spray them with some cleaner stuff and the dirt easily rinses off. I blow them off with compressed air and let dry before reapplying the filter oil. Lot's better than just tossing them all in the trash!

zag

[Spokane Dave]

I love the customs!

 

When you remove the restrictive factory airbox and go with free flowing filter/s the carbs dont like it. Another option to correct that is to get some restrictors for the carbs and that should make it right again. I went with a filter lid on my Vmax, ditching the factory lid and K&N and I had to use them on mine. I got them from Sean Morley (Morleys Muscle) over on the VMax forum or facebook. They are normally part of his jet kit for the Vmax that are needed once one of his free flowing airbox lids are installed. I have that setup and it rocks! You can buy the restriction separately.

 

I said restrictors, I should have said air correctors, little brass plugs with a tiny orifice that presses into the top air inlet port on top of each carb.

 

 

SO your saying there is another way to restrict the air restriction issues simply with a brass plug in the carb inlet port?

 

Carb is sideways in pic, but "As Seen" there is #5 ports (Like a clock dial) for ease - lets say 12 -2 -4 -6- 9 which port is it you are talking about, and correct me if I am misunderstanding, but you claim is by altering that port size eliminates the need to restrict airflow as zagger did with the washers in the airfilters?

[Spokane Dave]

If I can offer one piece of advice.....get your engine running the way you want it before you spend tons of time and money making it look cool!

Nothing worse (IMHO) than spending countless hours making it look cool, just to be left with a sputtering, chugging, hard starting, power plant.

As others have pointed out these engines don't run better when you "let them breathe". Those countless Japanese engineers knew what they were doing when they designed the airbox/filter and the exhaust collector.

These engines are fast, powerful and dependable in stock form....I'm not trying to be "purist" here, and I'm all for making your bike, YOUR BIKE....just keep in mind the pitfalls of changing the intake and exhaust.

Just my two cents...

As you were.

 

Always like to hear everyone's input

 

At this point I have $400 into it, and my "Plan" is to spend as little $$ as possible on this build. . . My time will be plenty but I don't watch TV and this type of stuff keeps me sane

Assure it is running good / right is my Primary goal, and then I will go from there.

 

Only customizing I plan to do is replacing the original mufflers . . . Thinking about running custom Tail pipes back then up at an angle and putting tractor caps on them Ta ting ting ting

[Spokane Dave]

Hey Dave,

I thought that I should pass on one thought that you might want to keep in the back of your mind during your building process. The Venture engine is relatively "flat" compared to other motorcycle engines and its weight sits fairly low. Meaning that the overall motorcycle CG (center of gravity) can be quite low if all the other stuff can be removed. A low CG is very nice since it makes the overall bike weight seem to be much lighter than it really is. Compared to a Vtwin cruiser that I own (which actually weighs less), my Venture feels much lighter from the rider's perspective. So - my suggestion is to remove whatever you can and move anything heavy (like the battery) to a position as low as possible. For example, I moved my battery down below the transmission just to help with this.

zag

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=108566

 

I am on base with that mentality, and the minute I realized where the fuel cell was and how low center of gravity was / was when the AD-VENTURE dualsport theory came to mind. I might mention I love Railing forest service roads on the KLR at 60+, so this thing is going to be my rendition of a solo rider 1200 ad-venture bike.

 

 

So where under the trans did you put the batt