Problems with the Trike.

[Brenda H]

I've got a problem with the trike. I'm fairly certain I know what it is but I'm just checking to make sure and to find out what I'm going to need to do to fix the darn thing. The bike is stone dead. Put the key in, turn it on, and everything lights up and works. Hit the start button and nothing. When I pull the clutch in and hit the start button, I hear a clicking from under the seat. It is not the kill switch. That is working like it is supposed to. Activate it and I get no sound at all.

 

I'm assuming my starter has gone out. Question is which part of it has failed? Do I need to replace the whole thing? Any recommendations on doing an upgrade, if there is one, while I'm at it? Recommendations on staying with stock unit or going aftermarket and who to get it from? Oh fun!!

 

As usual, all help gratefully appreciated!!

[snyper316]

When My starter went out on my 83, I had the same symptoms. My brushes were wore out, I just had it rebuilt.

[camos]

I'm assuming my starter has gone out. Question is which part of it has failed? Do I need to replace the whole thing? Any recommendations on doing an upgrade, if there is one, while I'm at it? Recommendations on staying with stock unit or going aftermarket and who to get it from? Oh fun!!

 

As usual, all help gratefully appreciated!!

Before blaming the starter, have you checked that the battery is fully charged and the terminals are clean. The easiest way to check is to run jumpers from a car battery. Car should not be running at the time. If the engine starts and runs then the problem is either the battery its or connections including the one from the neg terminal to the engine.

 

If it doesn't start then there is possibly a problem with the starter or the starter solenoid. Check the inexpensive things before tackling a new starter or solenoid.

[Woody]

Before blaming the starter, have you checked that the battery is fully charged and the terminals are clean. The easiest way to check is to run jumpers from a car battery. Car should not be running at the time. If the engine starts and runs then the problem is either the battery its or connections including the one from the neg terminal to the engine.

 

If it doesn't start then there is possibly a problem with the starter or the starter solenoid. Check the inexpensive things before tackling a new starter or solenoid.

 

 

[RedRider]

Do the lights dim when you hit the start button? If not .....

 

My first guess is the starter solenoid. Under the clutch side side cover (under seat).

 

RR

[Flyinfool]

Take your volt meter and measure the battery voltage at its terminals, then connect the red lead to the pos terminal on the starter and the black lead to the housing of the starter. Hit the start button and you should see just a bit less than the battery voltage you just measured at the starter. this will tell you if everything in the electrical path is working. If you see full battery voltage at the starter then the starter has an internal issue, If the voltage is a lot lower than battery voltage then there is either a bad connection somewhere or the solenoid is not making contact.

 

Do these checks first and then we can begin to narrow down the actual problem.

 

When you are checking the terminals, there is the positive at the battery, follow that wire to the solenoid terminal, then the other big wire from the solenoid to the terminal on the starter. On the negative side there is the battery terminal and where the other end of that wire is attached to the engine block. There is also the connection of where the starter is bolted to the engine can get corroded and block power. These are all free to check. No not just look at it and think it looks clean, you have to actually take it apart and check, it is not unheard of for all of the outside to look perfect and the corrosion is hiding in between the mating surfaces. Also look at where the wire is crimped into the terminal, that can corrode also.

[bongobobny]

Yup! There are lots of things I would suspect before the starter motor Brenda, the 2nd gen starters are the improved motors with 4 brushes instead of just 2 brushes on the 1st gen. (NOTE to you 1st gen owners, the 2nd gen starters bolt right in and improve your starting!) Like Jeff (FF) mentioned, the very first thing I would do is put a voltmeter across the battery and read what the voltage is with the key off, with the key on in the acc position, and then with the key in the run position. You should see around 12.8 to 13.9 volts with key off, almost the same in accessory, and on the run position maybe dropping a couple of tenths of a volt. When you hit the starter button it should drop around one volt or so.

 

OK dumb question time, are you sure you did not accidently hit the kill switch??

 

Now, if when you hit the start button, if the voltage does not drop much at all or none, I would suspect the starter solenoid has bit the big one first. Once you locate it, you can try to jumper the two big contacts to see if the bike turns over then. The solenoid has a lot of current going through it when it is engaged as it directly connects the starter motor to the battery, so when you jumper it there will be sparks flying, and you need to use a fairly heavy size wire as it can become very hot very fast if it is not big enough...

 

So, to sum it up, suspect the battery first as they do not last that many years, and the starter solenoid second...

 

Also, when you try to start and nothing happens, when you let go of the starter switch do the lights and dash come back on??? If they do not then you may have the dreaded ignition switch failure! My guess is your battery is toast though...

[Brenda H]

Without having gone out to the bike, the battery on it is about 18 months old, one of the Yuasa High Performance. I have a battery meter on the bike and it is reading 11+ with the bike on. The kill switch, as I said before, is working. If it's on, no noise, turned off, I get the clicks. Battery connections should be tight as this problem was noticed while the bike was in the paint shop getting some work done. I will double check the connections when I go outside later today. I'll post more later when I've had a chance to check things. This is definitely something I'll have to drag the hubby into.

 

BTW I check the kill switch quite often after having spent 20 minutes in a parking lot one day trying to start my old Aprilia Atlantic maxi scooter [my first bike when I started back riding over 10 yrs ago.] because the dummy that I was hadn't realized that I had hit the darn thing. The guys at the paint shop thought I had a secondary kill switch on it as they couldn't get it to start with the bike's switch turned off. They had checked the battery and it's connections when they couldn't get it to start themselves. The bike was fine when I took it there as I had it running while I was unloading it and driving it into the shop.

[baylensman]

My solenoid on the older bike(96) was mounted in a rubber widget to help with vibration. nestled between the two cables was a little plastic hat on top of a fuse. if this fuse blows you'll get one click and all your lights will work.

 

p.s. my battery sits at 11.9 volts right now and starts the bike fine.

[Freebird]

Brenda,

I honestly suspect that it's the battery. That is the very first thing I would check. Like Bob, I have serious doubts that your starter or starter solenoid are bad.

[videoarizona]

 

I'm inclined to agree. A dead cell or weak cell in the battery fits your problem pretty closely...

[Brenda H]

Another update. I pulled the battery and put it on the charger. After it showed a full charge, I put it in the bike and got the same readings on the bike's voltmeter and the same reaction - lights, clicks and nothing else. I have another battery, one I bought for my 650 Custom last year but never installed it. Hubby put it on the charger to make sure it had a full charge. I mounted it in the bike this afternoon and got the same meter reading and the same clicks. As for using a handheld meter, I'm going to have to go buy one. Hubby says he probably has several lying around here but has no idea as to where it/they are [and he wonders why I want my own set of tools!]. All hook ups were done with the bike only, nothing else. Don had the bike lit up like a Xmas tree and there is wiring all over the battery compartment. I'm also trying to figure out where I can put an aux. fuse box on it so I can wire the lights back into that. Oh Fun!

 

PS. This is going to sound crazy but can someone tell me just where the starter is located on that bike? Thanks to the trike kit, it looks like I'll be doing some partial dismantling. Anything from the battery compartment back is covered by the kit. I have Ponch's collection of manuals for the RSV and would you believe that while it shows diagrams of the starter, it's parts, etc., there is no diagram showing where the darn thing is. I'm assuming it's behind the battery compartment. With the trike kit in the way, getting to it could be fun.

 

Does anyone think it would be worth trying a third battery? I'll make a trip into town tomorrow for the handheld and will see what shows up on that.

 

As always, all help gratefully appreciated.

[WildBill1]

After charging and trying two different batteries I would say your battery is not the problem. As stated before check all your connections especially your main ground point. Also, if your trike has been in high water definitely clean all battery cable connections. If the main switch is loaded with accessories items unload it and replace it.

[bongobobny]

The starter is mounted on the front of the engine behind/below the radiator. Yup, you need a voltmeter to see exactly what is going on! While you had the battery out you could have taken it to your local Auto Zone, etc and had it load tested for free...

[WildBill1]

Well have you got your Tricycle starting problem solved? After we give all this good information we want some feedback too.

[Mike G in SC]

My RSTD will sometimes do similar. Was worse last year, till I pulled the panel where the starter solenoid connector is and reset it.

To get in there, you pull the passenger left floor board, then the plastic panel behind/above it. There is a connector visible there.

Try to disconnect/connect it.

That seemed to remedy mine, but has happened a couple of times since.

 

Dion, on this forum is your resident pro.

I also had a local Yamaha tech suggest I replace the big red wire from the battery to the starter,,, with a bigger one. Who knows.

Good luck.

Mike G in SC

[rougeray]

The clicking you heard was the starter relay. Typically this is an indication the battery is low or there is a bad connection. IMO you have eliminated the battery. The positive connection on your battery has a cable connected to your starter relay. Check to see if that connection is clean at the relay. I think what you will find that the relay has become corroded to include the 30 amp main fuse. Pull it out clean if you can however be prepared to see it fall apart in you hands. This is a bear to get to so good luck.

 

[Brenda H]

Here we go again.

 

I still have not located the starter. The trike is currently sitting on my flatbed trailer which isn't much bigger than the trike. Getting to the front underside is a major headache as the trike kit effectively covers whatever the stock bike does not in that area. Add in the radiator cover on the front and it's pretty much enclosed. There is a rubber guard around something directly below that but I'm not sure what it's covering. The only way to get under there would be to unload the bike to jack it up and that's not something I'm in favor of as two 60 somethings trying to reload it [providing of course that I can get the hubby to help] could get interesting. I used my usb camera on it this afternoon and still can't be sure of what I was looking at. GRRRRR I have no problem spotting the oil filter so if someone can give me directions from there I'll try again tomorrow .

 

FYI guys, the hubby is no help. The bikes, among other things, are "my thing" not his. He won't touch them. It's why I've had a bike [my RSTC] sitting for the last 3 years. I'm still kinda surprised the trike was running as I had to spend several months in 2015 up in Illinois on family business and he actually went out and started it for me. Otherwise it would be in the same shape as the RSTC.

 

Add in the fact that a mechanic I am not. Doing this stuff "cold turkey" is scary . I'm concerned I'm going to screw something up. The starter should not be that much of a problem once I figure out where the darn thing is! The bike needs to go back to the paint shop which is one reason why I haven't unloaded it. If I do, that trailer is for sale and I'm getting a bigger one. I'm having to pad the back edge of the trike to prevent the tailgate/loading ramp on the trailer from chipping the paint. It's a snug enough fit that I had to pull the hitch bar out of the receiver to get the ramp up. As to why it needs to go back? I had a lil fender bender on it back in November. Between the holidays and the paint shop owner spending most of January in the hospital, I didn't get the bike picked up until a few weeks ago. Somewhere on the road home, the bike shifted over enough that the right rear wheel cover ended up against the right side rail [angle iron] and did a nice job of scraping my new paint job up. [i told you it was a snug fit!]

 

As always, all help gratefully appreciated.

[Flyinfool]

The starter is right on the other side of the top front point of the left side cover. Circled in red.

 

 

Please ignore all of the Chrome and shiny paint, this pic is Dons bike not mine....................

[WildBill1]

Try jumping that bike off before going into the starter. Then check all your main battery cable connections for tightness and corrosion.

[Brenda H]

Apologies to everyone for taking so long to get back to you on this but the trike isn't the only "iron in the fire" I have going on around here. Add in, the hubby actually decided to help and that in itself took time along with my reminding him about it every three days or so.

 

Here's where we are.

 

For starters, I think I've got the starter located. Thanks Jeff for the pic. If I'm not mistaken, the little bolt I've got circled in the first pic is the starter. But that's as far as I've gotten with it. I was in the chat one evening and ended up talking to Greg, aka snyper316. He pulled up the Venturers website which had pics showing where the bike's three fuse holders are located, one of which includes the solenoid. That's the second pic. Only problem there is that with the trike kit, the panel it hides behind isn't there! What I've got is the third pic.

 

What has taken so long is my/his multiple attempts to get the passenger footrest pulled so we could get the chrome panel I have off. The footrests are what I'm assuming are Kury. highway pegs attached to the footrest which combination has two bolts in it. Somebody got real energetic and "Loctited" the heck out of them. I couldn't get them loose so this is where the hubby stepped in. His first attempt was using a cordless drill on one and he stripped the head out. So I've been waiting on him getting them out. Greg suggested heating them up first but that was something of a problem as we also had to protect the paint on the trike kit which is very close to the darn bolts. We finally did it!! End result is we find another bolt in the panel that has a countersunk head on it and the nut holding it in place also appears to be the same way on the back of the panel making it almost impossible to get off! However, I can move the panel around to see behind it. No main fuse/solenoid in that location. Oh Fun!

 

So I start digging. I pulled the battery holder out and guess what's mounted to a little rubber bracket underneath it? GRRRRR Ok NOW I've got it located!! I'm checking the cables and it looks like I'm going to have to do a little jury rigging to get the battery hooked back up so I can test it. The main battery cable to it is so short that to get power to it, I'd have to put the battery back where it belongs which would block my access to the darn thing. There's not enough give in the two cables to hook it up outside the bike so I'm going to have to find a pair of baby jumper cables and do it that way. I'm debating going ahead and replacing the solenoid and the two main fuses just for the heck of it. $10 is not going to break the bank. Besides it will make sure that those connectors are clean. The fun will be getting the lil monster back in it's bracket when I put the battery compartment back together. Another problem is replacing the two bolts. While they are standard hex head bolts, I have been unable [so far] to find bolts that length or thickness.

 

And so it goes!! I'll keep in touch and let you know how this mess is going. Again as usual, all help gratefully appreciated!!

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]108746[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]108747[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]108748[/ATTACH]

 

 

[snyper316]

Hey Brenda do you have an ace hardware store in your area, the guys at mine are real helpful in helping me look for the bolts I need. And that is all crazy one of those fuses is a spare fuse also.

 

Living life one curve after the other. Vroom scooting, thru the countryside.

[videoarizona]

Agreed. Ace or True Value. Take bolt with you. They usually have a sizing board.. One part is SAE, the other is metric. Fit the bolt in one of the metric holes until you get it to turn easily. That's the size and pitch. Now go to the bins with that size and find the length. I've replaced all of my bolts and nuts this way on the bikes.

 

Is there any member near you who can help this weekend??

Edited March 23, 2017 by videoarizona
Dam spell thingie replacing my words

[djh3]

Dion, on this forum is your resident pro.

.

Mike G in SC

 

I'm no Pro. LOL What are we talking about any who? I got back from a 3500 mile plus trip all was well. 2 days later I went out to start the bike and got a click then nothing, I worked 2 days to figure at best it was a bad main 30 amp fuse by the solenoid, bad connections for plug by said solenoid or bad ground from battery to block at back where it hooks up. It was kind of one of those once you get started just eliminate everything deals.

All bolts/fasteners on this bike are metric. If ts the floor board mount bolts I think they are a 6mmx150 thread by 35mm long? Dont have mine anymore to go take apart and look.

[Mike G in SC]

I think my intermittent start problem (hit the start button, sometimes start, sometimes just clicks under seat) is solved.

After I dickered with it, it got just where I needed it,,,,, completely screwed. It would not do anything but click.

Looking at that optimistically, Easier to check a no-go than a sometimes problem.

 

I took it to my tech. He had to do some chasing but then he found that the main ground wire that runs from the battery to the bolt by your right ankle, although tight, was not making a good ground.

I had mounted my Stebil horn there 10 years ago (used a Lowes L-mount, not Carbon One's stainless, lesson learned) and it had decided to loose contact right there.

 

He cleaned it up (and a couple washers). Starter now kicks every time,,, no clicking.

 

Anyhow, just wanted to relate that the primary ground bolt can be tight but still poorly grounded.

(And share that with Dion, as we had also talked about my bike last year. Thanks)

 

Mike G in SC