Calling electrical gurus

[Bassett]

1983 Venture Bobber build in progress. Have the diagrams for the wiring but I need schooled a little bit in what to cut and what not to cut. Even just as a reassurance before I end up in a electrical nightmare would be super.

 

 

thanks for your consideration,

DB

[baylensman]

Having a history of working on classic cars a few things that will help you and any one who comes after you on this project. (who knows you may sell it for a Flycycle)

 

On most things you should be okay. Except the CASS wires! would have to check, don't know if disconnecting them will give a fault code or not.

 

Whenever you cut a wire from a stay-con or PLUG always cut it far enough back to splice and replace if necessary, and label BOTH ends!

A lot of wires can just be unplugged and looped back and secured in a bundle in case you ever want to go back to stock. (or the next guy might)

 

Crimp connectors are so convenient but are prone to loosen up at the wrong time. Solder and shrink wrap makes for a long lasting "FIX".

 

Plan ahead, are you putting on hard bags that may be lighted. ever need to pull a fender? These places may benefit from a generic 4 pin or 6 pin stay-con set from the local auto parts store. I added LEDs to my bike and didn't plan ahead! Had an issue changing the rear tire, I had to cut and add a stay-con to the system, adding about an hour to the tire repair job!!!

 

Above all take your time identify everything , try to avoid cutting until you have done several trial fittings and testings. Does light work now and after everything is bolted down?

 

A few inches slack in a harness is a wonderful thing.

Edited February 8, 2017 by baylensman

[bongobobny]

Wow, that's a pretty complex question! A lot is going to depend on just what exactly you are planning to do! My first question is are you going to use the stock dash or do you have other plans?

 

There are a lot of safety features built into the wiring of these bikes such as when and when not the starter can be engaged, etc. There is a built in safety feature that will not allow the bike to keep running should you be in gear with the kickstand down and you let out the clutch. There is circuitry to kill the ignition should you lean the bike over waaay too much (having bike horizontal rather than vertical). There are indicators to tell you if a headlight or tail light is burned out, etc etc!

 

So, let's take things one at a time and I/we will answer you as best as we can. Myself I am very familiar with how the circuits work so feel free to PM me with a specific question or post it here.

 

I ass-u-me you found the great 1st gen wiring diagrams located in the 1st gen library? The simplified ones that member Dingy made are very good and a tad easier to follow than the stock factory ones...

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?42358-1st-Gen-Wiring-Schematics-1983-1993

[videoarizona]

Totally agree with Bob.

 

You need to break down what you want to keep and what you don't want to keep. Put it in groups, like "Safety", Lights, Engine, Charging, etc.

 

If you don't care about safety, then disable the safeguards on starting engine with kickstand, clutch switch, etc.. If you don't care for the suspension, lose the CLASS system and all it's stuff. Same with cruise control...lots of stuff there to drop off.

 

Point being, once you've done that, the rest becomes easy. IE, once you've broken down what systems you want to keep, then you can safely do away with most of the rest you don't want. I say "most", because some things are inter-related. Some share same circuit...so you will need to only trim off the part of the circuit that connects directly to that which you are taking off.

 

Once all the above has been done....and the bike is stripped down electrically, then you can test for everything else working. If good, now you can start trimming down the excess wires you left on for the "just in case" scenarios.

 

Suggest first; you make your own wish list...then when you think that's pretty well sorted, make a circuit diagram. Nothing special here, just point to what you want and how you feel it should go together to minimize what you don't want. Do remember to keep a few things available, like extra wire lengths (even an inch helps) if you decide to change your mind later on. Take your wiring diagram and compare with Yamaha's....see where you need to cut and so forth. Then...grab your cable cutters and go have fun!

 

I'm not as familiar as others here, but if you keep us up to date with your progress, I'll chip in where I feel I can help.

[zagger]

 

Crimp connectors are so convenient but are prone to loosen up at the wrong time. Solder and shrink wrap makes for a long lasting "FIX".

 

I agree 100% with baylensman. I soldered all of my wiring connections and covered them with heat shrink tubing which has an internal sealant that melts around the soldered joint. I forget where I ordered the special tubing, but I imagine that you can find it someplace online - just order a bunch of sizes so that you will have whatever you need. Although it sounds kind of permanent, the sealant can be cracked open once the heat shrink is sliced with a razor blade. If you really need a crimp type connector, do yourself a favor and solder the connector onto the wire after making the crimp. If the crimp connector has plastic insulation, the insulation will need to be pulled off before using the connector. After joining the connectors, put heat shrink over the connectors and wires to protect it. The best sort of connector for this are the "bullet" type connectors (a cylindrical shape). By the way, getting a decent soldering iron with a variety of tips will be a help. I don't think it is a good plan to try getting by with the cheapo soldering irons - like the $7.99 ones sold by Walmart.

 

Note that you need some kind of hot air "gun" for blowing onto the heat shrink tubing. I've had good luck with a standard hot air blower designed for paint removal which has a knob for setting the temperature.

 

There isn't one correct answer for "what wiring to save". It depends on how many things you plan to strip out of the bike - those things don't need wiring! The basic functions are pretty obvious and everything else is optional. For example: I put in a new non-air rear spring/shock so I don't have anything related to operation of the CLASS system. I ditched all safety/warning related functions except that I did wire up a neutral indicator light, everything else was removed.

 

On my bike, I identified every wire before cutting it out. I put masking tape on the remaining wire stubs identifying what it was, just in case I needed to reconnect anything. The Venture has a serious pile of wiring and I took my time making modifications. On the subject of wiring, using tin plated, stranded wires will make soldering MUCH easier and more reliable. Junk wire, which is simply stranded copper can be purchased a lot of places but I suggest ordering some decent stuff which will solder easily. Bare copper is hard to solder unless you scrape or sand off the oxidation on the copper - a serious pain.

 

zag

Edited February 9, 2017 by zagger

[bongobobny]

Heat shrink is very common and can be found in hardware stores, home improvement stores, and Radio Shack if you are lucky enough to still have one in your area. Lowes, Home Depot, Ace Hardware all carry it...

 

Even Wally World carries it!

[zagger]

Heat shrink is very common and can be found in hardware stores, home improvement stores, and Radio Shack if you are lucky enough to still have one in your area. Lowes, Home Depot, Ace Hardware all carry it...

 

Even Wally World carries it!

 

But heat shrink with internal sealant (my strong preference) probably needs to be ordered from someplace that stocks it. Lots of places have it, just do a google search. I would be very surprised if any normal retail store had it in stock - or even had any idea what heat shrink with sealant is! IMO, using standard heat shrink intended for indoor use, will allow water to wick up into the electrical joint and eventually create problems.

zag

[Flyinfool]

I get my lined heat shrink from McMaster Carr and /or Heatshrink.com.

Depending on where you get it some places call it Adhesive Lined, or Dual wall.

 

A proper crimp is more reliable than soldered, BUT, and it is a big BUT, You have to use the proper tool. The proper tool is not the one you get at the hardware or auto parts store. The proper tool will cost you $70+ each, I say each because you will need one for each size of terminal. I have the tools and use the crimp terminals that have the sealing adhesive built into them. In 40 years I have never had one of my crimps fail.

So for most people, soldering using only Rosin for flux, then cleaning the joint, and using the dual wall heatshrink is the best way to go.

[CaseyJ955]

If your bobbing it then will it be a problem if a code is thrown? Are you keeping any of the dash functions? I think by law you have to have horn, blinkers and hi/low beam with an indicater and not much else. I have seen some really cool GPS speedo setups and some with integral tach in one smallish housing that might hook up nicely with the instructions and schematic diagrams you already have it should be straight forward. When you say "bob" I'm assuming everything not completely essential is coming off, and some reworking/relocating of what is essential for aesthetics.

 

For the record I think the above mentioned suggestions are excellent. Especially the solder/heat shrink.

I crimped, then soldered and heat shrink. You having lived until you have executed a perfect terminal solder only to realize you forgot to slide a length of heat shrink tube over the wire first. For full effect make sure your almost out of the terminal you just installed and now have to snip off.

 

I have never bobbed a Venture so I have nothing of substance to offer about how to physically go about doing that other than noting that it's a big heavy bike and it will take some doing. I think if I were taking this on I would do the following. I'm really OCD so please take the following with a grain of Na.

 

So in the spirit of an actual bob job, remove all the fairings, dash, unessential components and electrical. I think I would lovingly remove the harness, labeling everything and cutting nothing and set it aside. Complete the bob doing all the reconfiguration work without the harness in your way, get it mocked up consistent with how the finished project will be, then reinstall the harness plugging in whats left (TCI, blinkers and lights et al) and make sure it fires up and all those components work as they should, once your happy with function label the parts your going to continue to use and note the jumbled masses of wire that used to go to the CB, CLASS, Stereo and most of the dash that you will be phasing out. remove the harness and spread it out, unwrap it completely and remove all the portions no longer needed for the new bike to function. Rewrap it, reinstall and retest. With a bobbed naked bike I'm not sure how you would hid all the jumbles of wire that used to hide behind the fairings, it's all gotta come out IMHO. Neatness counts because all that used to be hidden will now be exposed depending on any bodywork you fashon to hide the bits that are not easily reworked.

 

What I dont know is if this is going to be a rat bob or if lots of custom fabbing and work are in order. This would be overkill for a rat bob but if your taking it down to the bones and rebuilding it as a new bob with some custom pieces and reworking then this might make sense. It will be a lot of work. I'm intrigued and would love to see photos of your project as you move through it. I love this sort of thing.

 

I'm sure you have already considered this but a whole buttload of the parts your taking off will probably have some value on ebay or to other board members so when your stripping it down preserve everything possible.

 

I see stuff like this that might help you get rid of the bulky switchgear, maybe not this specifically but something along these lines. Make sure and avoid anything made in China. I'm just throwing ideas out in hopes that it helps. Some of this stuff I linked is probably garbage from China but searching out quality versions of the same would be pretty sweet. One thing I have learned is that USA seller usually means guy in the USA selling Chinese junk. I'm not trying to bash on the good folks of China but in my experience a vast majority of the products made there are very much subpar and are not likely to last. We have a great customer chopper market here but prices are stout, probably you can use parts removed from other models without all the extra functions also.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-7-8-Motorcycle-Handlebar-Horn-Turn-Signal-Light-Controller-Switch-/232216482655?hash=item36112e535f:g:SqkAAOSw5cNYiAxz&vxp=mtr

 

ww.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-Bike-Black-Bracket-Mount-Universal-7-Headlight-LED-Turn-Signal-Light-/122072901834?hash=item1c6c1ca8ca:g:tBEAAOSwyLlXpDVY&vxp=mtr

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-Black-Smoke-Motorcycle-Mini-Bullet-Turn-Signals-Blinker-Lens-Custom-Chopper-/252191233669?hash=item3ab7c4d685:g:CDEAAOSw7FRWWUvT&vxp=mtr

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPS-DUAL-Speedometer-Tachometer-Instrument-Gauges-Japanese-British-European-/201109952262?hash=item2ed3165706:g:ZbEAAMXQAMlRYFyP&vxp=mtr Something like this but for motorsports. Sean at Morleys Muscle sells something like this for bikes and you can order the functions you want on it, really sweet and not to badly priced.

Edited February 9, 2017 by CaseyJ955

[cowpuc]

IMHO= Got TONS of AWESOME advice happening here Bassett!!! Just thought I might add in: I have used a number of the old school Santee electrical boxes to harbor electrical components on my builds - pretty simple boxes but down right cramped even for a basic "ignition points" old school build.. For something like you are attempting to do - if it were mine I would fab up something utilizing either a double wall rear sectional fender or even an under the seat box.. Something that you would flip the seat to expose the electrical panel would be boss.. Keep in mind that you are going to want to utilize relays (like Mom Yam did OEM) for electrics to save on switch integrity..

[Bassett]

If your bobbing it then will it be a problem if a code is thrown? Are you keeping any of the dash functions? I think by law you have to have horn, blinkers and hi/low beam with an indicater and not much else. I have seen some really cool GPS speedo setups and some with integral tach in one smallish housing that might hook up nicely with the instructions and schematic diagrams you already have it should be straight forward. When you say "bob" I'm assuming everything not completely essential is coming off, and some reworking/relocating of what is essential for aesthetics.

 

For the record I think the above mentioned suggestions are excellent. Especially the solder/heat shrink.

I crimped, then soldered and heat shrink. You having lived until you have executed a perfect terminal solder only to realize you forgot to slide a length of heat shrink tube over the wire first. For full effect make sure your almost out of the terminal you just installed and now have to snip off.

 

I have never bobbed a Venture so I have nothing of substance to offer about how to physically go about doing that other than noting that it's a big heavy bike and it will take some doing. I think if I were taking this on I would do the following. I'm really OCD so please take the following with a grain of Na.

 

So in the spirit of an actual bob job, remove all the fairings, dash, unessential components and electrical. I think I would lovingly remove the harness, labeling everything and cutting nothing and set it aside. Complete the bob doing all the reconfiguration work without the harness in your way, get it mocked up consistent with how the finished project will be, then reinstall the harness plugging in whats left (TCI, blinkers and lights et al) and make sure it fires up and all those components work as they should, once your happy with function label the parts your going to continue to use and note the jumbled masses of wire that used to go to the CB, CLASS, Stereo and most of the dash that you will be phasing out. remove the harness and spread it out, unwrap it completely and remove all the portions no longer needed for the new bike to function. Rewrap it, reinstall and retest. With a bobbed naked bike I'm not sure how you would hid all the jumbles of wire that used to hide behind the fairings, it's all gotta come out IMHO. Neatness counts because all that used to be hidden will now be exposed depending on any bodywork you fashon to hide the bits that are not easily reworked.

 

What I dont know is if this is going to be a rat bob or if lots of custom fabbing and work are in order. This would be overkill for a rat bob but if your taking it down to the bones and rebuilding it as a new bob with some custom pieces and reworking then this might make sense. It will be a lot of work. I'm intrigued and would love to see photos of your project as you move through it. I love this sort of thing.

 

I'm sure you have already considered this but a whole buttload of the parts your taking off will probably have some value on ebay or to other board members so when your stripping it down preserve everything possible.

 

I see stuff like this that might help you get rid of the bulky switchgear, maybe not this specifically but something along these lines. Make sure and avoid anything made in China. I'm just throwing ideas out in hopes that it helps. Some of this stuff I linked is probably garbage from China but searching out quality versions of the same would be pretty sweet. One thing I have learned is that USA seller usually means guy in the USA selling Chinese junk. I'm not trying to bash on the good folks of China but in my experience a vast majority of the products made there are very much subpar and are not likely to last. We have a great customer chopper market here but prices are stout, probably you can use parts removed from other models without all the extra functions also.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-7-8-Motorcycle-Handlebar-Horn-Turn-Signal-Light-Controller-Switch-/232216482655?hash=item36112e535f:g:SqkAAOSw5cNYiAxz&vxp=mtr

 

ww.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-Bike-Black-Bracket-Mount-Universal-7-Headlight-LED-Turn-Signal-Light-/122072901834?hash=item1c6c1ca8ca:g:tBEAAOSwyLlXpDVY&vxp=mtr

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-Black-Smoke-Motorcycle-Mini-Bullet-Turn-Signals-Blinker-Lens-Custom-Chopper-/252191233669?hash=item3ab7c4d685:g:CDEAAOSw7FRWWUvT&vxp=mtr

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPS-DUAL-Speedometer-Tachometer-Instrument-Gauges-Japanese-British-European-/201109952262?hash=item2ed3165706:g:ZbEAAMXQAMlRYFyP&vxp=mtr Something like this but for motorsports. Sean at Morleys Muscle sells something like this for bikes and you can order the functions you want on it, really sweet and not to badly priced.

 

 

 

 

Appreciate the tips!!

Check out my forum in watering hole I have been documenting my process so far!!

[Bassett]

Wow, that's a pretty complex question! A lot is going to depend on just what exactly you are planning to do! My first question is are you going to use the stock dash or do you have other plans?

 

There are a lot of safety features built into the wiring of these bikes such as when and when not the starter can be engaged, etc. There is a built in safety feature that will not allow the bike to keep running should you be in gear with the kickstand down and you let out the clutch. There is circuitry to kill the ignition should you lean the bike over waaay too much (having bike horizontal rather than vertical). There are indicators to tell you if a headlight or tail light is burned out, etc etc!

 

So, let's take things one at a time and I/we will answer you as best as we can. Myself I am very familiar with how the circuits work so feel free to PM me with a specific question or post it here.

 

I ass-u-me you found the great 1st gen wiring diagrams located in the 1st gen library? The simplified ones that member Dingy made are very good and a tad easier to follow than the stock factory ones...

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?42358-1st-Gen-Wiring-Schematics-1983-1993

 

 

Thank you! Got the diagrams already. Doing custom speedo.

[Bassett]

Sneak peak!!

[CaseyJ955]

Sneak peak!!

 

Yup, I think I see where your going with this

[snyper316]

I have been watching the process and finished off my yamahammer today!!!

I think I will get alot better gas mileage witout all the wiring and such. Installed quite an interesting horn:Avatars_Gee_George:, it sure does sneeze alot too:Bunny2: maybe running rich on alf alfa. I will try next trip with a 1/4 tank of hay mixed in. Keep them pictures coming Bassett just wished I could figure out why all our pictures are turning sideways. Maybe if we tilt our computers first and then post the pictures not sure tho....

[Bassett]

yup, i think i see where your going with this

ohhhhhh yeaaa!!

[Bassett]

I have been watching the process and finished off my yamahammer today!!!

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=108364 I think I will get alot better gas mileage witout all the wiring and such. Installed quite an interesting horn:Avatars_Gee_George:, it sure does sneeze alot too:Bunny2: maybe running rich on alf alfa. I will try next trip with a 1/4 tank of hay mixed in. Keep them pictures coming Bassett just wished I could figure out why all our pictures are turning sideways. Maybe if we tilt our computers first and then post the pictures not sure tho....

 

 

 

i... can't. Even.

[Bassett]

Can't wait 😁

[Bassett]

Rats nest.

[snyper316]

Well you could take all that wiring away and order connectors and the colored wire for the tci box so that at least stays true to the electrical and I imagine it wouldn't be to hard to wire up your simple wiring for your lights and horn. Just my input. Hell with that crazy mess... o yeah and your stator and fuel pump.

[Bassett]

Well you could take all that wiring away and order connectors and the colored wire for the tci box so that at least stays true to the electrical and I imagine it wouldn't be to hard to wire up your simple wiring for your lights and horn. Just my input. Hell with that crazy mess... o yeah and your stator and fuel pump.

 

this is a rats nest!!

[Bassett]

If your bobbing it then will it be a problem if a code is thrown? Are you keeping any of the dash functions? I think by law you have to have horn, blinkers and hi/low beam with an indicater and not much else. I have seen some really cool GPS speedo setups and some with integral tach in one smallish housing that might hook up nicely with the instructions and schematic diagrams you already have it should be straight forward. When you say "bob" I'm assuming everything not completely essential is coming off, and some reworking/relocating of what is essential for aesthetics.

 

For the record I think the above mentioned suggestions are excellent. Especially the solder/heat shrink.

I crimped, then soldered and heat shrink. You having lived until you have executed a perfect terminal solder only to realize you forgot to slide a length of heat shrink tube over the wire first. For full effect make sure your almost out of the terminal you just installed and now have to snip off.

 

I have never bobbed a Venture so I have nothing of substance to offer about how to physically go about doing that other than noting that it's a big heavy bike and it will take some doing. I think if I were taking this on I would do the following. I'm really OCD so please take the following with a grain of Na.

 

So in the spirit of an actual bob job, remove all the fairings, dash, unessential components and electrical. I think I would lovingly remove the harness, labeling everything and cutting nothing and set it aside. Complete the bob doing all the reconfiguration work without the harness in your way, get it mocked up consistent with how the finished project will be, then reinstall the harness plugging in whats left (TCI, blinkers and lights et al) and make sure it fires up and all those components work as they should, once your happy with function label the parts your going to continue to use and note the jumbled masses of wire that used to go to the CB, CLASS, Stereo and most of the dash that you will be phasing out. remove the harness and spread it out, unwrap it completely and remove all the portions no longer needed for the new bike to function. Rewrap it, reinstall and retest. With a bobbed naked bike I'm not sure how you would hid all the jumbles of wire that used to hide behind the fairings, it's all gotta come out IMHO. Neatness counts because all that used to be hidden will now be exposed depending on any bodywork you fashon to hide the bits that are not easily reworked.

 

What I dont know is if this is going to be a rat bob or if lots of custom fabbing and work are in order. This would be overkill for a rat bob but if your taking it down to the bones and rebuilding it as a new bob with some custom pieces and reworking then this might make sense. It will be a lot of work. I'm intrigued and would love to see photos of your project as you move through it. I love this sort of thing.

 

I'm sure you have already considered this but a whole buttload of the parts your taking off will probably have some value on ebay or to other board members so when your stripping it down preserve everything possible.

 

I see stuff like this that might help you get rid of the bulky switchgear, maybe not this specifically but something along these lines. Make sure and avoid anything made in China. I'm just throwing ideas out in hopes that it helps. Some of this stuff I linked is probably garbage from China but searching out quality versions of the same would be pretty sweet. One thing I have learned is that USA seller usually means guy in the USA selling Chinese junk. I'm not trying to bash on the good folks of China but in my experience a vast majority of the products made there are very much subpar and are not likely to last. We have a great customer chopper market here but prices are stout, probably you can use parts removed from other models without all the extra functions also.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-7-8-Motorcycle-Handlebar-Horn-Turn-Signal-Light-Controller-Switch-/232216482655?hash=item36112e535f:g:SqkAAOSw5cNYiAxz&vxp=mtr

 

ww.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-Bike-Black-Bracket-Mount-Universal-7-Headlight-LED-Turn-Signal-Light-/122072901834?hash=item1c6c1ca8ca:g:tBEAAOSwyLlXpDVY&vxp=mtr

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-Black-Smoke-Motorcycle-Mini-Bullet-Turn-Signals-Blinker-Lens-Custom-Chopper-/252191233669?hash=item3ab7c4d685:g:CDEAAOSw7FRWWUvT&vxp=mtr

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPS-DUAL-Speedometer-Tachometer-Instrument-Gauges-Japanese-British-European-/201109952262?hash=item2ed3165706:g:ZbEAAMXQAMlRYFyP&vxp=mtr Something like this but for motorsports. Sean at Morleys Muscle sells something like this for bikes and you can order the functions you want on it, really sweet and not to badly priced.

 

 

 

very good, i started electrical stuff today, going to map it out at work tomorrow... on lunch of course

i just ordered the very tail end of electrical components for this build. after this order all that will be left is tires, seat, battery, LOF supplies. for some reason, my rear brake pedal will not budge. hoping that its not too much of an issue.

 

 

i have a build page started in the watering hole. check it out. have a lot of good progress in there so far..

 

 

I am a powdercoating junkie too, so i have done some cool stuff to personalize my bike a little bit. :banana:

[snyper316]

this is a rats nest!!

Yes it is very close to being rats nest but all the wires here appear to be intact still...

 

Living life one curve after the other. Vroom scooting, thru the countryside.

[Bassett]

Yes it is very close to being rats nest but all the wires here appear to be intact still...

 

Living life one curve after the other. Vroom scooting, thru the countryside.

 

 

Yes indeed. Not too much fun with this electrical crap. Will sort through more tomorrow!

[CaseyJ955]

Yes indeed. Not too much fun with this electrical crap. Will sort through more tomorrow!

 

I'm sure you will be able to eliminate quite a bit of it.