Fireworks

[mraf]

Anybody lighting any fireworks off when we get the new President. It might be a little loud around here for a few minutes. I read theres going to be a bike rally that same morning there. Something like 5000 bikers invited. :canada:By the way were is the USA flag waving little dude.

[cowpuc]

I am gonna go out n touch off the last half of box of this $45 a box .45 acp ammo thru my 1911!!! Just got a gut feeling happy days are here again when it comes to ammo prices n supply!!!

[Yammer Dan]

I am gonna go out n touch off the last half of box of this $45 a box .45 acp ammo thru my 1911!!! Just got a gut feeling happy days are here again when it comes to ammo prices n supply!!!

 

 

:sign yeah that::sign yeah that: Fingers crossed for that!!

[Condor]

I am gonna go out n touch off the last half of box of this $45 a box .45 acp ammo thru my 1911!!! Just got a gut feeling happy days are here again when it comes to ammo prices n supply!!!

 

Wish we could get away with that out here in Kommiefornia, but youse guys go ahead and I'll celebrate vicariously.... :wow: :wow:

[djh3]

Just dont blast bullets up in the sky and think nobody gets hurt. Every year here in Fla they manage to kill somebody that way. These crazy mostly Hispanic folks here dont seem to understand simple physics. If it goes up it comes down. They go out shoot in the air and laugh and go back in the house. A couple miles away, someones car now has holes in it or worse yet someone collects their stray round in the head while lighting off a fire cracker.

[Condor]

Just dont blast bullets up in the sky and think nobody gets hurt. Every year here in Fla they manage to kill somebody that way. These crazy mostly Hispanic folks here dont seem to understand simple physics. If it goes up it comes down. They go out shoot in the air and laugh and go back in the house. A couple miles away, someones car now has holes in it or worse yet someone collects their stray round in the head while lighting off a fire cracker.

 

The energy of a 240 grain.. or other weight... bullet has lost all of it's energy on the way up. The end result would be like someone dropping a small rock from a height. I've been hit by shotgun pellets while bird hunting and they just bounced off my straw hat... Not much difference between the velocity of a 45LC and a 12ga round. This will work only if the round is fired close to vertical. The problem arises when the gun is shot at an angle close to horizontal where the bullet will not be effected by gravity as much and will retain it's energy. Then someone gets hurt if they are close enough. A couple of miles away may just be pushing it a bit... This is probably what's happening around your area only much closer.

[Flyinfool]

A round fired straight up will come back down with around 50% of the energy it headed up with. Depending on just how that variables of caliber, bullet weight, sectional density, ballistic coefficient, muzzle velocity, twist rate, temperature, humidity, wind, barometric pressure, and density altitude, all interact with each other, and on the bullet. There are documented cases where someone has died from a bullet fired very nearly straight up. Of course the closer to level the more the chance of lethality.

[SilvrT]

If it goes up it comes down.

 

In my case, that's a big "IF" ....

[Condor]

A round fired straight up will come back down with around 50% of the energy it headed up with. Depending on just how that variables of caliber, bullet weight, sectional density, ballistic coefficient, muzzle velocity, twist rate, temperature, humidity, wind, barometric pressure, and density altitude, all interact with each other, and on the bullet. There are documented cases where someone has died from a bullet fired very nearly straight up. Of course the closer to level the more the chance of lethality.

 

Can't agree with you, but willing to learn. I'll need some documented case history. A few internet sources to some info would be appreciated 'cause we all know everything on the net is true.....

[WildBill1]

I don't want to get hit with a 230 grain bullet traveling at 400 feet per second horizontal or vertical.

[Condor]

I don't want to get hit with a 230 grain bullet traveling at 400 feet per second horizontal or vertical.

 

Need to know where the 230 gr @ 400 fps info is located?? This is getting good....:icon_lurker:

[cowpuc]

My Brother-In-Law was indirectly involved in an accidental shooting because of the falling bullet routine.. He was black powder Deer hunting with a group of guys, customary to cap n ball folks - they all "emptied" their rifles into the heavens for the trip home. Few days later they read where a person was seriously injured by a .50 Caliber falling round ball about 2 miles from where they had emptied out. After hearing the news, the group did what was right = went in and had their weapons checked = sure enough = it does happen!!

[Condor]

My Brother-In-Law was indirectly involved in an accidental shooting because of the falling bullet routine.. He was black powder Deer hunting with a group of guys, customary to cap n ball folks - they all "emptied" their rifles into the heavens for the trip home. Few days later they read where a person was seriously injured by a .50 Caliber falling round ball about 2 miles from where they had emptied out. After hearing the news, the group did what was right = went in and had their weapons checked = sure enough = it does happen!!

 

2 Miles with black powder??? Puc, what were those guys using for powder?? I don't think it was them... Or maybe it was wishfull thinking on their part. Or... maybe they were shooting Barret 50's.. http://controversialtimes.com/military/10-longest-recorded-sniper-shots-in-history/

[cowpuc]

2 Miles with black powder??? Puc, what were those guys using for powder?? I don't think it was them... Or maybe it was wishfull thinking on their part. Or... maybe they were shooting Barret 50's.. http://controversialtimes.com/military/10-longest-recorded-sniper-shots-in-history/

 

I hear ya Jack, had the same response when he told me about it ,,,, thinking an ought 6 at 2 miles,,, ok,, that could be but a muzzle loader:doh:.. Even pointed at an angle when shot upwardly, a couple miles .. Then I got the = "yea,, they said the projectile traveled in the wind while going up n coming down" My stance in all these discussions about falling bullets has always been around the idea that its not even so much about the speed that the object is traveling as it is the energy that is pushing the projectile at that speed. Seems like laws of physics would dictate that falling speed is about all any object is gonna obtain on its way down (diggin way back into High School science here) and the energy absorbed by stopping a free falling object is different than the energy absorbed from a projectile being pushed at that speed. It's gotta be something to do with that otherwise it seems like every time 1/2" hail came down in a good ol fashion western storm there would be people killed from getting hit with the stuff and holes driven thru rooftops..

[WildBill1]

Need to know where the 230 gr @ 400 fps info is located?? This is getting good....:icon_lurker:

 

That's 50% of the original velocity of 800 feet per second on a loaded .45 acp. Anyway that's what I reload and shoot for. The 50% is the allowance or the effect for the falling bullet.

[Condor]

I hear ya Jack, had the same response when he told me about it ,,,, thinking an ought 6 at 2 miles,,, ok,, that could be but a muzzle loader:doh:.. Even pointed at an angle when shot upwardly, a couple miles .. Then I got the = "yea,, they said the projectile traveled in the wind while going up n coming down" My stance in all these discussions about falling bullets has always been around the idea that its not even so much about the speed that the object is traveling as it is the energy that is pushing the projectile at that speed. Seems like laws of physics would dictate that falling speed is about all any object is gonna obtain on its way down (diggin way back into High School science here) and the energy absorbed by stopping a free falling object is different than the energy absorbed from a projectile being pushed at that speed. It's gotta be something to do with that otherwise it seems like every time 1/2" hail came down in a good ol fashion western storm there would be people killed from getting hit with the stuff and holes driven thru rooftops..

 

Good analogy Puc. I wouldn't want to get hit by a 2 pound chunk of hail. Heck one the size of a golf ball would get my attention, but we're talking about a 240 grain piece of lead (.5"x 1.25") that will only fall at a given speed, and not gain speed on the way down. Remember the old High School Physics question about a pound of feathers and a pound of lead and which one will hit the gound first?? The answer is at the same time in a vacuum, but the lead will win the race because of wind resistence... Maybe that's why 1stGens are faster than 2nd's.... They have more lead in their pencil...

[Condor]

That's 50% of the original velocity of 800 feet per second on a loaded .45 acp. Anyway that's what I reload and shoot for. The 50% is the allowance or the effect for the falling bullet.

 

Got that in writing?? I guess what I read here is that a 50 cal ball shot straight into the air with a muzzle velocity of 800fps will return to terra firma at 400fps?? Yes?? Since the ball will actually come to a complete stop for a nano-sec before changing direction and falling, that it actually gains speed and mass energy during the fall, equivalent to half the MV of the ball driven by expanding gases from a black powder burn...

[WildBill1]

Condor, well guess I'll need too dust off my physics book before committing further.

[cowpuc]

Well,, I know one thing,,, I once shot a deer with my .30 .30 running straight at me. Dead on right in the brisket - he went down but not like he had been hit that hard,,, sort of stumbled a little, ran a few yards and end of line.. Few years late I picked up a Ruger 7 mag partial pay on a bike deal (ended up swapping it off cause I really didnt care for the safety placement up on the comb of the stock - carrying by the comb made for to easy of the safety slipping into "drive" for my liken - BUT - WOWZY what it a shooter!!).. The Ruger came with a box of shells, think they were 180 grain, know they were soft point.. Ran a couple rounds thru it, the gun liked em a lot! I took a wood bit and hollow pointed some of bullets for hunting. That next season I drug that 7 mag out and left my trusty 30/30 behind. Had a nice buck do another head on with the 7 mag = NOW THAT HIT LIKE A TRAIN = HE INSTANTLY FLIPPED OVER BACKWARDS AND HIS INTERNALS LOOKED LIKE A BOMB WENT OFF IN THERE!! Definitely something to absorbing the impact energy of "the push"..

[snyper316]

[emoji213] [emoji213] [emoji213] [emoji108] [emoji115] [emoji116] [emoji378] in other words huh!!! The sky is falling?

 

Living life one curve after the other. Vroom scooting, thru the countryside.

[Freebird]

Pretty interesting talk about this subject. I conclude that it could absolutely be deadly, especially considering that it will not likely be truly perfectly verticle.

 

http://forensicoutreach.com/library/the-falling-bullet-myths-legends-and-terminal-velocity/

[cowpuc]

Pretty interesting talk about this subject. I conclude that it could absolutely be deadly, especially considering that it will not likely be truly perfectly verticle.

 

http://forensicoutreach.com/library/the-falling-bullet-myths-legends-and-terminal-velocity/

 

Yep,, right there with ya Boss!!! Some REALLY intense debate about all this stuff as you scroll down on that page!! Also notice a link to a German test of the subject. Be fun to be able to understand Deusce and know what they are saying BUT - if ya start at 1:24 and watch the video = some pretty relevant high tech testing happening there!!

[Condor]

Well,, I know one thing,,, I once shot a deer with my .30 .30 running straight at me. Dead on right in the brisket - he went down but not like he had been hit that hard,,, sort of stumbled a little, ran a few yards and end of line.. Few years late I picked up a Ruger 7 mag partial pay on a bike deal (ended up swapping it off cause I really didnt care for the safety placement up on the comb of the stock - carrying by the comb made for to easy of the safety slipping into "drive" for my liken - BUT - WOWZY what it a shooter!!).. The Ruger came with a box of shells, think they were 180 grain, know they were soft point.. Ran a couple rounds thru it, the gun liked em a lot! I took a wood bit and hollow pointed some of bullets for hunting. That next season I drug that 7 mag out and left my trusty 30/30 behind. Had a nice buck do another head on with the 7 mag = NOW THAT HIT LIKE A TRAIN = HE INSTANTLY FLIPPED OVER BACKWARDS AND HIS INTERNALS LOOKED LIKE A BOMB WENT OFF IN THERE!! Definitely something to absorbing the impact energy of "the push"..

 

Yep, a 7 Rem Mag will do that. I own 4 or 5 of them. All Rem 700's and one Husquavarna. I'm also partial to 264 Win Mag's. We have a group of locals that shoot long distance. Some with 338 Lapua's and a couple with 50 barrets. At 2300 yards they hold 30-40 feet above a 6' a steel target to allow for drop and windage, and it takes a while to travel that distance. After a hit the bullets look pretty interesting. Some bent, and some flattened, but none are fragged. Not much energy left at that distance.

 

Pretty interesting talk about this subject. I conclude that it could absolutely be deadly, especially considering that it will not likely be truly perfectly verticle.

 

http://forensicoutreach.com/library/the-falling-bullet-myths-legends-and-terminal-velocity/

 

Interesting article, but not totally conclusive. Those stated injuries and deaths may have occurred from guns not fired vertically, and the 1920 tests were done with a 30 cal rifle at 2900fps, and the returning at 700 (max) fps is almost the speed of sound. That's also 477 MPH. Many rounds will drop below the speed of sound when fired horizontally, so I'm not buying it... Yes it's dangerous firing a gun and not knowing where it's headed, but when a bullet reaches terminal velocity even a little off vertical at nearly that speed, or 400fps, and penetrating a roof?? I ain't buying it... It is interesting, and I wish someone would do more research with modern technology on the subject.

[Yammer Dan]

I've seen them slugs bounce off the ground. Not sure where they were coming from. Was a little busy at the time but picked up several.

[Flyinfool]

Here is a link with some more links in it if you read all of the responses. There are links to sever semi scientific studies done.

https://www.quora.com/What-happens-to-the-bullet-if-a-gun-is-fired-vertically-upward-from-Earths-surface.

 

The one main theme is there are just way to many cases of injuries and death from celebratory fire "straight" up.