Dying a mysterious death ... then OK ... then not!

[Mad Dog]

Good Christmas morning to all,

Just before I put my bike (mostly) away, It died while I was riding after bout 15 minutes. It seemed to be out of fuel, which it wasn't. I switched it to reserve, it cranked fine, but nothing. After waiting and thinking and waiting for about 3-5 minutes, it fired up and ran fine. I left it on reserve and it continued to run, so I started home again. 15 Minutes later ... same exact thing. After 5 minutes it fired right up again. This time I switched it off reserve, and it still ran fine ... I got home inside of 15 minutes or so ... there were no more issues that time.

Yesterday I fired it up and was letting it get hot and idle, and after 20 minutes or so it dies again. After letting it sit for 5 minutes or so it fired right up again.

I have had the Mr. Gasket pump and filter installed for two years now with no issues.

 

It seems to be a fuel issue. It is possible that the pickup tubes are dirty, or the Mr Gasket really isn't working (I CAN hear it), or the fuel filter is clogged, and the bike runs for 15 minutes on full carb bowls and gravity ... but not enough fuel is getting by to sustain?? Thats what it seems like to me. Any comments would be helpful

 

TIA

 

Mike

[bongobobny]

Hmmmm, the first thing is to check if your vent tube is clogged...

[XV1100SE]

Fuel bowls getting fuel at initial start up so pump is working when cold. Could be pressure relief in tank...when the engine dies and you open the cap, is there pressure? A partially clogged vent might cause some of the problem. I'd consider the fuel filter too...when did you change it last?

 

I'm leaning towards it being your pump though. After it heats up then it stops working. Give it a few minutes to cool and it works. I had the same issue. Trying to trouble shoot it when cold tested fine.

[2WHEELSFORME]

I would bet your fuel pump is failing.

[M61A1MECH]

I agree with BongoBob, easiest thing to check is for vacuum occurring in the fuel tank due to partially clogged vent line. Run it again until it dies, immediately remove the fuel cap and listen to see if you hear the sound of air rushing into the tank. If you do and the bike starts without waiting the 5 minutes, then that is your issue. If not, I would lean towards the fuel pump going out after it gets hot and needing to cool down before it operates again.

 

Good luck, keep us posted.

[V7Goose]

Pull the petcock and clean the screens. Then rinse the tank to get other debris out. Then change your fuel filter.

[RoyalRider05]

Had the same issue happen. When you click on your kill switch (red) or turn the key on you should hear a small amount of "puttering" or sounds like a mini machine gun. If you dont hear that. You need to clean your points on your fuel pump. Left side of bike. Id still pull it and take off the black cap and look. Points are SUPER cheap so its a quick fix.

[djh3]

Had the same issue happen. When you click on your kill switch (red) or turn the key on you should hear a small amount of "puttering" or sounds like a mini machine gun. If you dont hear that. You need to clean your points on your fuel pump. Left side of bike. Id still pull it and take off the black cap and look. Points are SUPER cheap so its a quick fix.

 

He said has Mr Gasket pump installed, so its solid state no points or contacts. I have not heard of a Mr Gasket going bad but I suppose it can. I vote vent problem. The hose for it is rite under tha black surrou d for key. You and disconnect it and maybe a piece of vaccum hose and blow thru to see if clogged.

[RoyalRider05]

Good call...did not see he got a new pump. For sure sounds like a hose vent issue! On a side note change yuor fuel filter too while your at it!

 

 

 

 

He said has Mr Gasket pump installed, so its solid state no points or contacts. I have not heard of a Mr Gasket going bad but I suppose it can. I vote vent problem. The hose for it is rite under tha black surrou d for key. You and disconnect it and maybe a piece of vaccum hose and blow thru to see if clogged.

[k9cottage]

i have been having a similar strange problem fine when cold and when i heats up feels like fuel problem so reset up the carbs ,still the same i was putting the tank back on and had a look at the wiring loom under the tank all looked ok so i turned over the main ignition power lead the [pink and red] plug to find it had melted the underside of the plug. repaired it and now is running fine again i had seen a thread on the subject but it didn't seem like an electrical problem but might be worth a look. just found the link http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?32359-Ignition-Switch-Wiring-Failure

Edited December 26, 2016 by k9cottage

[Mad Dog]

Fuel bowls getting fuel at initial start up so pump is working when cold. Could be pressure relief in tank...when the engine dies and you open the cap, is there pressure? A partially clogged vent might cause some of the problem. I'd consider the fuel filter too...when did you change it last?

 

I'm leaning towards it being your pump though. After it heats up then it stops working. Give it a few minutes to cool and it works. I had the same issue. Trying to trouble shoot it when cold tested fine.

 

The fuel filter is 1-1/2 years old so maybe 4000 miles. That should be an easy swap.

how did you finally troubleshoot the pump to find it not working when hot?

 

Thanks

[Mad Dog]

Pull the petcock and clean the screens. Then rinse the tank to get other debris out. Then change your fuel filter.

 

This should be done too I suppose. In your experience do I need a new gasket for the petcock? Or reuse the old one?

 

Thanks

[XV1100SE]

how did you finally troubleshoot the pump to find it not working when hot?

 

As suggested I started with the basic stuff - change fuel filter, check vent tube... only thing that made sense then was that it was the OEM pump. Bike started and ran fine when cold...after running for a while would "starve" under acceleration and stall. Wouldn't start immediately (still "hot")...let it sit for ten minutes and would fire right back up.

 

I've never used the Mr. Gasket pump. My OEM pump went under warranty so I'm currently using an OEM pump. I told the dealer the symptoms, what I thought it was and they changed it out. Haven't had any problems since.

[N3FOL]

I had a similar occurrence last Summer around August. Left the house in the afternoon. Two miles down the road, I noticed my engine died as I was coasting downhill. Luckily I was not on a road going uphill or it would be a different story. At any rate, I was able to pull on the side of the road and sat there cranking my engine. One think I remember is that I only have less than 1/4 of a tank left. Being a member of this forum, I remember things to do in case something like this happen while on the road.....so I opened my gas tank and at the same time switched to Reserve. I didn't really notice any air going in, when I opened my tank. One thing to consider, I had just replaced my fuel filter around March 2016. So......I sat on the side of the road for about 3 to 5 minutes and whalllaaaa, my bike fired right up and off I go... To make this long story shorter, it has never occurred to me anymore up to this date. This week, I will replace my fuel filter to have peace of mind during this winter months. I have 50K plus miles and still on my original fuel pump.

[Mad Dog]

One thing to consider, I had just replaced my fuel filter around March 2016. So......I sat on the side of the road for about 3 to 5 minutes and whalllaaaa, my bike fired right up and off I go...

 

If I am reading this right, this happened when your fuel filter was only a few months old, and hasn't happened since even with the same (March 2016) filter in it ... or did you change the filter? Just curious... I am definitely changing mine anyway ....and checking the vent.

 

Thanks

[djh3]

The burned up plug seems to be a recuring issue. I have 2 fellows that bought my relay by-pass kit that have either found before or after installing it the plug on the bike side has been burned up.

[N3FOL]

If I am reading this right, this happened when your fuel filter was only a few months old, and hasn't happened since even with the same (March 2016) filter in it ... or did you change the filter? Just curious... I am definitely changing mine anyway ....and checking the vent.

 

Thanks

 

Yes. I had just replaced my fuel filter about 5 months ago. This strange phenomena occurred around August. I still have the same fuel filter and rode a lot during the Fall months, but not so much this December. As soon as I am done cleaning my office area by tomorrow, I will also replace my fuel filter together with my rear tire. To be honest, it was not a good feeling being stuck on the side of the road with my Venture as I always do a lot of night riding.

[Mad Dog]

So heres an update.

This morning I started the bike with the gas cap off - to eliminate and tank venting issues. The bike ran for almost an hour then died the same fuel starved death.... so its not a vent issue.

Within a minute after the bike died I tried to restart ... wouldnt catch. Turn it off and on and I heard the Mr. Gasket pump run for about 2 seconds then stop ... still wouldnt catch. Did that maybe 3 times all with the same results...

Then on about the 4th try the Mr. Gasket ran for about 5 seconds then stopped .. then the bike fired up fine.

SO.... hmmmm... now what?

Not a venting issue

Not a pickup tube issue

I guess the only things left are the pump and filter. Any opinions?

I also know there are threads here about going gravity feed, so is that a real option? Any experiences with that? I'll need to check that out ...

Anyway TIA as always. & opinions always welcomed

[cecdoo]

I had an 06 with about 50k on her, did the same thing you are experiencing. I put a new oem fuel pump on her. Took care of the problem.

YRMV

 

Craig

[MikeWa]

Your latest description makes me wonder if it is a fuel problem or not. I think you need to find a way to check spark when in the no start condition. Just to be sure you are not chasing ghosts. Also it is easy enough to pull the fuel hose off the petcock to see if fuel flows out of the tank.

 

Mike

[Flyinfool]

Based on your description the pump ran for 11 seconds. This tells me the float bowls were empty. You either have a fuel blockage or a bad pump.

[snyper316]

this makes no sense to me, But I would definatly do what they said. What I am thinking tho Sounds kinda like a fuel issue, Wasn't made by Yamaha but I had a chevy love pickup with isuzu motor in it, It would do this exact same thing but if I ran the choke half on it would go away. then eventually the manual fuel pump went out completely...

[Mad Dog]

Based on your description the pump ran for 11 seconds. This tells me the float bowls were empty. You either have a fuel blockage or a bad pump.

 

This is where I keep seeming to end up so I agree. Either the pump isn't really pumping much ... or anything ... and the bike is running as long as it can on what little the pump does pass along ... plus gravity. Then it dies.

I'll go out and poke around as soon as it warms up a little.

 

Thanks

[V7Goose]

You DO have a fuel supply problem. If all is normal, the pump will never click when the key is turned on soon after the last shutdown (the carb bowls will remain full until enough time has passed to allow some fuel to evaporate out).

[Mad Dog]

Ok, it's finally warm enough, and with time enough, so I have an update and some questions.

 

I have the Mr. Gasket hanging out with a hose connected to its outlet. Open fuel & turn on the power - kill switch on ... nothing. Try it again & nothing. No noise, no pumped flow. Grab the Fluke and there is voltage feeding the pump at the molex plug.

Plug everything back together ... nothing, then something. I got a decent flow with the pump humming away for about 3 seconds. Then it stopped. I could repeat that a few times by turning the key off then back on. Each time I was lucky if it ran for 3 seconds... maybe 2.

 

Shouldn't that pump run continuously until it is stopped by pressure (from the floats rising in the carb bowls)?? Each time after it stopped running fuel continued to trickle by gravity through the filter and pump (SO SHUT THOSE PETCOCKS!!), so its not a fuel supply problem to the pump.

 

Do you think I am correct in saying it is the pump? How else can I check this?

Is there anything else to check??

 

Thanks as always.