83 venture vs royal

[Matt_P]

Hello,

I'm new to this sight cause I am looking for experts in the venturing field. I recently bought a 1983 venture XVZ12TK and a venture royal XVZ12Dk. The venture is running but in bad shape with lots of broken farrings, wrong bolts everywhere. shouldn't cost me to much to get it up to touring ready. The royal is in worse shape. engine doesn't crank and is missing a lot of parts. My question is which one should I devote time and money into? Is the royal worth more refurbed, or should I just stick with the running one? thank you.

[MiCarl]

There isn't going to be much difference in the value of a Royale vs. a Standard. Things like condition, mileage etc. will probably affect the value more than the equipment options.

 

All of the powertrain and structural parts are the same. Most of the body and electrical parts are also the same. Your fastest and cheapest way to get a rider is probably to use parts from the Royalle to complete the Standard. You could even move the Royalle options if you want them.

 

If your goal is to turn a profit don't bother with a restoration. They're worth more in parts than as running motorcycles.

Edited December 19, 2016 by MiCarl

[Matt_P]

That's exactly what I was looking for thank you!! what kind of details are you looking for? I will be building one for my personal use, and the second will be a future project to try and turn a profit.

 

Another question is other than ebay. where is the best sight to get parts. I found bikebandit.com but I don't know how trustworthy they are.

[MiCarl]

Note that I edited my post while you were posting. Bottom line is the same though.

 

Some parts (primarily power train) are still available from Yamaha. Some common parts (cluch disks, brake system parts, carburetor parts) are available aftermarket. Anything else will have to come from places like eBay and craigslist. You can also ask here - many of us have misc. spares laying around.

[OrlinEngh]

If it was me I would go with the one that runs first, and take the two and make one good one, Never know with the other one you could spend a lot of time to get it to run and find out it isn't worth it. I have rebuilt a few of these Ventures and if you keep watch you can find some parts bikes that are still in fairly good shape.

Here is a couple of pics of one that I pulled out of the shed last summer and am about done with. I done this one with a couple of hundred dollars of parts that I picked up here and there.

[bongobobny]

Many of us buy from Bike Bandit, and Boats.net, both are very reliable and bargains.

 

The chief differences between the Royale and the Standard are the Audio system and the C.L.A.S.S. or Computer Leveling Air Suspension System. On the Standard the air pressure for the front and rear is manually adjusted with a hand pump. Other than that, except for the color, as mentioned they are the same bike!

 

Of course, the Royal is more desirable than the Standard, but as far as resale value, there is little difference. One thing to mention if you try to convert the Standard to the Royale, on the MK1 version ('83 - '85) the wiring harness is different so you will have to swap out the main harness. The two main issues with the 1st Generation Ventures is the carburetors, which are very complex and need to be precision set up, and the ignition module. Chances are any of your running problems are connected to one of these two issues. To properly rebuild your carbs you will need around $400 or so of parts, a couple of specialized measuring tools which are a carb sync set of gauges and an exhaust gas analyzer, along with a good instructional video so you know just what you are doing and why! The ignition module is best served by replacing with one of several aftermarket units out there instead of a used factory one or an impossible to find very pricey factory stock one! Aftermarket replacements run around $200.

 

Engine wise they are known to go well over 200,000 miles! With the '83, however, there is an issue with 2nd gear going out due to a soft metal thrust washer which requires you removing the engine and splitting the case to get to. Other than that about the only thing you need to do is adjust the valve clearance about every 50,000 miles give or take. This can be done with the engine still in the bike. There is a special tool needed to do this.

 

The last thing to mention with the '83 model year only is a known problem with the frame rusting from the inside at the area of the rear shock mounting. The mounting was modified with the '84 year model.

 

I should also mention that your front forks will most likely need rebuilding and the springs replaced with Progressive brand springs which run around $80 for a pair. Do not use aftermarket seals as they usually leak. Many of us have replaced the front forks with forks from the MK2 ('86 - '93) so you can replace those inadequate brakes with modern 4 piston brakes from a Yamaha R1 or R6, and get rid of the hydraulic anti dives and use the electric ones instead. There's more little stuff besides the above-mentioned items...

 

Hope all this hasn't scared you off too much! Once properly running they are one of the finest touring bikes ever made!!!

[CaseyJ955]

Royale with audio is nice. I have an 89 Royale with the CB and stereo. I have yet to install the headphones into a helmet and really try that out but if audio is important and you have a nice standard my guess is you could find a marine audio solution that would take up less space and be more advanced than the elderly OEM unit. I'm going to use the OEM stuff on mine since it's there and works.

 

I'm not sure whats entailed in maybe moving it from one bike to the other, if the harness will accept it or if it is much more detailed than that.

[Matt_P]

Royale with audio is nice. I have an 89 Royale with the CB and stereo. I have yet to install the headphones into a helmet and really try that out but if audio is important and you have a nice standard my guess is you could find a marine audio solution that would take up less space and be more advanced than the elderly OEM unit. I'm going to use the OEM stuff on mine since it's there and works.

 

I'm not sure whats entailed in maybe moving it from one bike to the other, if the harness will accept it or if it is much more detailed than that.

 

thanks, audio is important when I ride. But I have the wireless Bluetooth headphones that I connect to my phone and play Pandora. way less expensive than buying a helmet mounted audio. so rebuilding the stereo right now will take a back seat.

[Matt_P]

If it was me I would go with the one that runs first, and take the two and make one good one, Never know with the other one you could spend a lot of time to get it to run and find out it isn't worth it. I have rebuilt a few of these Ventures and if you keep watch you can find some parts bikes that are still in fairly good shape.

Here is a couple of pics of one that I pulled out of the shed last summer and am about done with. I done this one with a couple of hundred dollars of parts that I picked up here and there.http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=107952

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=107953

 

They look great thanks for the pics!!!

[Matt_P]

Many of us buy from Bike Bandit, and Boats.net, both are very reliable and bargains.

 

The chief differences between the Royale and the Standard are the Audio system and the C.L.A.S.S. or Computer Leveling Air Suspension System. On the Standard the air pressure for the front and rear is manually adjusted with a hand pump. Other than that, except for the color, as mentioned they are the same bike!

 

Of course, the Royal is more desirable than the Standard, but as far as resale value, there is little difference. One thing to mention if you try to convert the Standard to the Royale, on the MK1 version ('83 - '85) the wiring harness is different so you will have to swap out the main harness. The two main issues with the 1st Generation Ventures is the carburetors, which are very complex and need to be precision set up, and the ignition module. Chances are any of your running problems are connected to one of these two issues. To properly rebuild your carbs you will need around $400 or so of parts, a couple of specialized measuring tools which are a carb sync set of gauges and an exhaust gas analyzer, along with a good instructional video so you know just what you are doing and why! The ignition module is best served by replacing with one of several aftermarket units out there instead of a used factory one or an impossible to find very pricey factory stock one! Aftermarket replacements run around $200.

 

Engine wise they are known to go well over 200,000 miles! With the '83, however, there is an issue with 2nd gear going out due to a soft metal thrust washer which requires you removing the engine and splitting the case to get to. Other than that about the only thing you need to do is adjust the valve clearance about every 50,000 miles give or take. This can be done with the engine still in the bike. There is a special tool needed to do this.

 

The last thing to mention with the '83 model year only is a known problem with the frame rusting from the inside at the area of the rear shock mounting. The mounting was modified with the '84 year model.

 

I should also mention that your front forks will most likely need rebuilding and the springs replaced with Progressive brand springs which run around $80 for a pair. Do not use aftermarket seals as they usually leak. Many of us have replaced the front forks with forks from the MK2 ('86 - '93) so you can replace those inadequate brakes with modern 4 piston brakes from a Yamaha R1 or R6, and get rid of the hydraulic anti dives and use the electric ones instead. There's more little stuff besides the above-mentioned items...

 

Hope all this hasn't scared you off too much! Once properly running they are one of the finest touring bikes ever made!!!

 

Thank you, you have just sold me on buying a membership to this sight. this is the expertise I was looking for. Haven't scared me off, im really looking forward to getting this bike ready. and I will use this post as a starting point for my bike.

[bongobobny]

Best buck a month you will ever spend!!

 

Also, besides the technical info, the friendship here surpasses anything money can buy!!

[Matt_P]

So here is my list of things to do/Buy. if you have any advice or are selling any of the big items please let me know. this is only my second bike. so I'm not sure what a lot of parts are called, or theory of operation.

 

1- MK2 (86-93) forks

2- side faring guards and radiator cover

3- Right

4- the black box on right handlebar (the sight glass is broken, I don't now if they sell replacement glass or if the whole diafram needs replaced)

5- I might split the engine due to a bad oil leak, so maybe R2 the thrust washer for 2nd gear. did they come out with a replacement washer?

6- left and right faring trimming

7- basic servicing fluids/filters (I know and can due air/oil) is there fuel or hydro filters? if so what oil/hydro is recommended?

8- Replacing brakes with 4 piston form Yamaha R1 or R6

9- Head light housing assy.

 

thank you for replies in advance!

Matt

[bongobobny]

OK, that's quite the winter project list you got going there!!

 

I'll answer as best as I can, I'm sure others will chime in as well.

 

Front forks. Ebay is our friend, but watch out as not all people are honest. You do not necessarily need the whole fork but you need the lowers at least. That is what the calipers bolt on to. The MK1 spacing is 86 (?) mm whereas the MK2 is 100mm. the internals of the MK2 varied a little in different years but the lowers are the same I think. You're best buying in a pair though and keep track of the year just in case. If you change out your brakes you MUST use rotors from a MK2 as the rotors are different sizes, and the MK2 rotors are vented whereas the MK1 is not.

 

Side fairing guards and radiator cover. I'm not sure what you are referring to as the side fairing guards but once again ebay. We probably refer to them by a different name. Do you mean the crash bars?? They are a dime a dozen usually but make sure they aren't bent. You can put MK2 bars on but they have a different mount tab for the NK2 lower fairing and chin pieces. The main point to watch for is the right one, make sure they do not come close to the water pump elbow as they can, and will, vibrate against the elbow! When a Venture goes down on the right side a very common issue to have the crash bar go into the elbow and put a crack or hole into it! Now by radiator cover do you mean the side covers or the grille? Side covers are plastic, the metal grate rusts and looks ugly. There were some nice aftermarket pieces that fit in where the wire mesh went and look like 3 slits when installed. It is a very common mod to replace the reflectors on the side with lights for safety and looks. Besides the stock grille, there was also a very nice aftermarket grille that had a Rolls Royce look to it, but unfortunately, the chrome plating did not hold up and they corroded and rusted, but you can media blast them and powder coat them!

 

The black box on the right handlebar with the site glass. I'm thinking you are referring to your front brake master cylinder and yes they can be rebuilt and definitely should be!!! There are rebuild kits for them, but the bore diameter is different from MK1 and MK2. If you go to the MK2 brakes (or R1/R6) you should use the MK2 master for a larger volume from the master. Yes, there are aftermarket generic plastic discs out there to replace the site glass.

 

Thrust washer. Yes, the thrust washer was changed mid-season on the '85 year, after serial number 1406 or something like that. The part number is somewhere on this site, or just use the part number from an '86 on. I don't think Yamaha sells the original washer anymore so the part number will be superseded.

 

Not sure what you mean by left and right fairing trimming...

 

Hydraulic brake fluid, you can use Dot 3 or Dot 4, synthetic is better! you need to flush both the brake lines and the clutch lines. Most of us use speed bleeders and a vacuum pump to flush the lines and use plenty of fluid or even better yet, replace all of those 30 plus year hoses with braided stainless steel lines and get an even better than stock feel and performance on both brakes and clutch. Rubber lines swell when you apply pressure, the ss lines do not swell as much resulting in more power going the calipers or in the case of the clutch, the slave cylinder. Speaking of the slave cylinder, chances are very likely yours will be leaking from age and corrosion and pitting. Don't waste your time trying to hone and rebuild them, new ones ar fairly inexpensive, like around $40 or so. The fuel filter is best replaced by removing the rear tire for easier access. Somewhere here there is a list of aftermarket filters that fit properly and have roughly the same specification as the stock ones at half the price or less. It's a good idea to replace your fuel lines as well, the stock ones may look good on the outside but inside they may be disintegrating!

 

Replacing with Yamaha R1 or R6 calipers is a simple bolt on application, but only the years around 2000 fit, the newer ones are a different design. The calipers should be side mounting, not top mounting. There are "blue dots" and "gold dots" and the preferred is the gold dots. The gold dots have anodized aluminum pistons whereas the blue dots are steel which can rust and weigh more. They are very easy and inexpensive to rebuild, which I personally recommend so they will be like new and last a long time! You can also replace the rear brake caliper, but, you need the MK2 caliper bracket and either the Mk2 stud on the swing arm, or machine a larger pivot piece that you can bolt onto the swing arm.

 

Headlight housing assembly. OK another big bugaboo with the MK1 was the dim headlight. A very good improvement is to take that rubber shroud and paint it white with a good rubber paint!! Night and day difference! This is an old school trick that works with any light to make them brighter. White reflects ALL light whereas black absorbs light!! This trick also works on silver housings as well! You would think silver reflects light, but white does a better job! Silver, or gray, is white with a little black added... You can also replace the headlight bulb with a Silverstar bulb for greater light, but unfortunately brighter bulbs do not last as long so you will be replacing them maybe every other year. Now there was a former member who made a really nice adapter plate that fit in right where the headlight goes that allowed for twin projection bulbs! Also, you can switch over to the MK2 headlight but this requires changing the front fairing frame and the piece that holds the left and right upper fairing pieces together. I can't remember if the left and right upper fairing pieces need to be changed out from MK1 to MK2 as well, I changed mine out but can't remember why I needed to as I did a lot of updating to my '84.

[MiCarl]

As you search eBay for parts don't make your search too narrow.

 

I've got a friend that needed a fairing half - at the time decent ones were going for about $250. He found a listing for a fairing stay (thin metal tube the fairing attaches to). The fairing half he needed was attached to the stay and included.

 

He purchased the fairing stay for $25 and got a free fairing half with it.

[CaseyJ955]

As you search eBay for parts don't make your search too narrow.

 

I've got a friend that needed a fairing half - at the time decent ones were going for about $250. He found a listing for a fairing stay (thin metal tube the fairing attaches to). The fairing half he needed was attached to the stay and included.

 

He purchased the fairing stay for $25 and got a free fairing half with it.

 

+1, excellent advice, also dont be in a hurry. Sometimes you will find a few examples of what you want for inflated prices and 10 days later you might find the same thing for $8 shipped. Prices fluctuate wildly. As a buyer and seller I see this all the time. Over the winter is a good time to start getting all the parts needed, I know when I'm selling bike parts it's much slower over the winter when you would think everyone would be working on stuff.

[cowpuc]

+2 on TONS of excellent advice you got going thus far Matt. Before I add in a couple more things, wanna take a second and you to VR!! You certainly sound like our kind of lop eared varmint (please dont take offense to me calling you a lop eared varmint = just my way of acknowleging you as one of the gang ).

Couple of other things to look out for:

1. The 83's came with a plastic waterpump impellar that liked to disenigrate. Replacement impellar is alum and well worth the invest.

2. They also had issues with the stator. Mom Yam updated the stator function with a splash plate and crank bolt with an oil orfice in it to add cooling. This is a must do if it hasnt been done yet.

3. Starter "drag" is common with them. GOOD battery's help. Lots of these lop eared's have updated to the newer 4 brush starter and upgraded cables and LOVE it. I have personally never had to do either but have found good results by just cleaning the brush dust from the armature inside my stock starters (amazing how much more effecient those little starters are when kept clean internally).

4. Pull the battery cover (fax tank cover) and take a good look at the fuse box. I am working on wearing out my 6th 83/84 and have yet to end up with OEM fuse box on any of them at retirement. There are box upgrades available or, just wiring in a series of GM type fuses works fine too.

5. Under the left side cover, on the frame rail you will find a 3 wire terminal that connects the 3 wires from the stator. That sucker has caused more problems than a skeeter infestation for a tent camper cause there is just to much happening there and to much exposure. I have tried upgrading to better terminals but have yet to find a better solution than "hard wiring" it, tossing the terminal. Never a problem with soldered and shrink tubed!

6. Even if you dont need new tires, pull the rear ax and grease the splines/drive hub pins. Make a mental note that you have the inner bearing collar in place when you put it back together. Make sure you mental note the washer position against the caliper stay and get it back in properly so the caliper isnt offset when you put it back together.

7. Pull the covers off the carb diaphrams. Pull the slides, check the diaphrams for pin holes/tears. Look closely where the diaphram meets the carb body. Yamabond #5 works the best (IMHO) for diaphram repair if your not into buying new. Gently slide the slides in and out and make sure they glide in and out with very little to NO resistance. Clean slide bores with carb cleaner and a rag if sticky.

Fingers are getting tired, I am not normally so long winded....

 

You mention the "black box" with a broken window on your right bar. Sounds like the front brake master is what you might be speaking of. Probably best to just replace the master. Not even sure whether or not that "window" disc is replaceable.

 

Personally I have the "standard" Venture to be an amazing scoot in its own right. I started out on a Royale but my other 5 have been standards and truthfully, about the only thing I REALLY miss about that original Blonde is the electronic cruise. Been living by an old motorcycling motto of mine = "less equals more" when it comes to maintaining my far riders, has served me well. Same token though, those Royales sure are purdy!! If it were me, I would do as already suggested, combine two into one - make a GOOD runner and either keep the parts for spares or part out what cha got left. Either way though, wishing you ALL the best in your project Matt!!

 

Puc

 

PS - got TONS of parts n pieces laying around here. Not able to wrench currently (medical nonsense, to many miles - wayyyy to much fun) to pull pieces and do shipping but, Lord willing and the creek dont rise, we get closer to spring and you still need pieces - might be able to help you out!!! Wish you were closer to West Michigan - you could come and clean this place up:missingtooth:

[bongobobny]

The Pucster is a good man to listen to, he has taken several Ventures well past the 200,000 mile point!!

[paysaw]

There has been lots of good advice about your repairs and bike.The market on the bikes are soft right now.I have a bought a few Ventures over the years.I ride them and then sell more often for less then I paid for them.I have sold many parts and have given much away.I once bought a bike for some parts and sold it for more then what I paid for it parted out.Good luck and I hope you get at least one running.

[Matt_P]

+2 on TONS of excellent advice you got going thus far Matt. Before I add in a couple more things, wanna take a second and you to VR!! You certainly sound like our kind of lop eared varmint (please dont take offense to me calling you a lop eared varmint = just my way of acknowleging you as one of the gang ).

Couple of other things to look out for:

1. The 83's came with a plastic waterpump impellar that liked to disenigrate. Replacement impellar is alum and well worth the invest.

2. They also had issues with the stator. Mom Yam updated the stator function with a splash plate and crank bolt with an oil orfice in it to add cooling. This is a must do if it hasnt been done yet.

3. Starter "drag" is common with them. GOOD battery's help. Lots of these lop eared's have updated to the newer 4 brush starter and upgraded cables and LOVE it. I have personally never had to do either but have found good results by just cleaning the brush dust from the armature inside my stock starters (amazing how much more effecient those little starters are when kept clean internally).

4. Pull the battery cover (fax tank cover) and take a good look at the fuse box. I am working on wearing out my 6th 83/84 and have yet to end up with OEM fuse box on any of them at retirement. There are box upgrades available or, just wiring in a series of GM type fuses works fine too.

5. Under the left side cover, on the frame rail you will find a 3 wire terminal that connects the 3 wires from the stator. That sucker has caused more problems than a skeeter infestation for a tent camper cause there is just to much happening there and to much exposure. I have tried upgrading to better terminals but have yet to find a better solution than "hard wiring" it, tossing the terminal. Never a problem with soldered and shrink tubed!

6. Even if you dont need new tires, pull the rear ax and grease the splines/drive hub pins. Make a mental note that you have the inner bearing collar in place when you put it back together. Make sure you mental note the washer position against the caliper stay and get it back in properly so the caliper isnt offset when you put it back together.

7. Pull the covers off the carb diaphrams. Pull the slides, check the diaphrams for pin holes/tears. Look closely where the diaphram meets the carb body. Yamabond #5 works the best (IMHO) for diaphram repair if your not into buying new. Gently slide the slides in and out and make sure they glide in and out with very little to NO resistance. Clean slide bores with carb cleaner and a rag if sticky.

Fingers are getting tired, I am not normally so long winded....

 

You mention the "black box" with a broken window on your right bar. Sounds like the front brake master is what you might be speaking of. Probably best to just replace the master. Not even sure whether or not that "window" disc is replaceable.

 

Personally I have the "standard" Venture to be an amazing scoot in its own right. I started out on a Royale but my other 5 have been standards and truthfully, about the only thing I REALLY miss about that original Blonde is the electronic cruise. Been living by an old motorcycling motto of mine = "less equals more" when it comes to maintaining my far riders, has served me well. Same token though, those Royales sure are purdy!! If it were me, I would do as already suggested, combine two into one - make a GOOD runner and either keep the parts for spares or part out what cha got left. Either way though, wishing you ALL the best in your project Matt!!

 

Puc

 

PS - got TONS of parts n pieces laying around here. Not able to wrench currently (medical nonsense, to many miles - wayyyy to much fun) to pull pieces and do shipping but, Lord willing and the creek dont rise, we get closer to spring and you still need pieces - might be able to help you out!!! Wish you were closer to West Michigan - you could come and clean this place up:missingtooth:

 

Thank you for the info, I have all these printed out and starting my research for parts. Don't worry about offending me, I'm a mechanic for the Airforce. nothing you can say will be new or offensive.

[Matt_P]

 

these are the faring's and guards I was referring to.

[bongobobny]

Yup, all Ebay items, good luck finding the right color and in good shape. With these old bikes broken tabs are a fact of life, but all repairable. There are several methods to plastic repair, do a search here as there is a lot of good info to be found...

[OrlinEngh]

I have found a lot of parts and on Craigslist also.

[bongobobny]

What you have circled is the upper fairing assembly, the dashboard, the engine cover, and the radiator side cover...

[Yammer Dan]

Remember this is ABS Plastic!! A can of pipe glue can work wonders at times. Clean breaks can be repaired with great results at times. It takes a little practice to learn how to handle this stuff. A spare part that is not worth saving and a little practice you will be surprised what you can do.

[Kretz]

That's exactly what I was looking for thank you!! what kind of details are you looking for? I will be building one for my personal use, and the second will be a future project to try and turn a profit.

 

Another question is other than ebay. where is the best sight to get parts. I found bikebandit.com but I don't know how trustworthy they are.

 

No worries re Bike Bandit I bought parts from them in the past, despite the name I found them very good to deal with. No problems very quick service. I had stuff shipped to Sumas, Wa & then walked over to collect. Also got electrical parts from Ricks Motorsport Electrics... again super service.