Lets talk about ride techniques for flat tire survival. DEDICATED TO SNIPE!

[cowpuc]

Been long enough that I am not sure where it was even at but Snipe asked this prudent question (IMHO) in another thread.. Thought he might post the ? up in a new thread here in the Water Hole but I dont see it AND, me being impatient me and loving to and :Im not listening toabout bikes - thought I would post it up,,,,,,,,, dedicated to that lop eared varmint Sniper of course!!

 

The question at hand is what works for you when it happens - how do ya survive a flat.. Front? Back? Both?

 

Gotta go crash (this type = ),, cant wait to compare notes about this one..

[uncledj]

It kinda' depends on the exact situation, and ya usually have to react instinctively, as there's usually not enough time to think it through, but what I will say is DO NOT use the brake for whichever tire is flat (Front, Rear)....which is kind of tough on a First Gen with linked brakes. Pull in the clutch and coast to the side of the road.....What's worked for me is to stand on the footpegs rather than stay in the seat so you have your knees for some extra suspension travel if she starts to jump like a buckin' bronc, and standing makes it easier to do a controlled launch off the bike if necessary.

There's no guarantee of a happy outcome, .....the best you can do is improve your chances.

I've been through a sudden flat at highway speeds twice, and once on a 35 mph road when I was young.... I chose to ride my enduro about 10 miles on a flat, trying to get home. I went down hard on the enduro when the car in front of me braked suddenly, (I should have kept more distance)

I went down soft on a Honda 750 with my girlfriend on back....got it almost stopped before she went down.....And, thankfully, I was able to keep my Second Gen up from 80 mph to a complete stop.

I should mention that these were all rear tire flats. I've never had to deal with a front tire flat.

It takes a mixture of skill, instinct and luck to come out of such a situation without a scratch.

 

Ride safe

 

 

[snyper316]

Been long enough that I am not sure where it was even at but Snipe asked this prudent question (IMHO) in another thread.. Thought he might post the ? up in a new thread here in the Water Hole but I dont see it AND, me being impatient me and loving to and :Im not listening toabout bikes - thought I would post it up,,,,,,,,, dedicated to that lop eared varmint Sniper of course!!

 

The question at hand is what works for you when it happens - how do ya survive a flat.. Front? Back? Both?

 

Gotta go crash (this type = ),, cant wait to compare notes about this one..

 

[snyper316]

I honestly forgot about it... @cowpuc I would go thru and read threads after the intention was to post about it. I would assume being on pavement would be alot different then being on a little minibike in dirt. Had front flat on it and of course your riding on dirt, it wide round tires I wouldn't say no bigger then 10 inches, and only going about well I would say 25. No clutch and I don't believe I ever used the brakes on it to stop. It was a little 3 speed you would shift same as motorcycle just no clutch. Something else they teach in safety classes is if there is an obstacle you just can't miss you stand up on the bike. So standing would make sense. I wonder also if you ever watch motocross racing and there doing there stunts,jumps, bumpies, they are standing up on there bikes and there legs are working just as much as the suspension if not more. I also noticed a friend he would ride and remain seated and bumped that tire on the fender and tore up the back of the bike so maybe it helps prevent that.He also dumped is dirt bike alot. So I believe the standing would help you maintain control. I think it will be very interesting the input we receive in here.

[cowpuc]

Your welcome on the thread Snipe, was hoping you wouldnt take offense to me posting it up. The subject matter that you asked about is VERY interesting and one that I dont remember being talked about much - she's a good one IMHO..

 

Never really did get caught up in the spectator side of MXin Snipe - more of the participant type - spent many years (and LOTS of :mo money:cause I was never good enough to get a factory sponsorship) on the Motocross Tracks. Raced 68 to 73 on an early UGLY (it was WHITE of all things) DT250 I had converted to an MX bike. Running forward mounted shocks, webber reed valve (this was before Yammy made the reed block OEM), Wisco pistons drilled for porting, portin n polishing, Bassani pipe and on and on all of my own doings = just as much of goofy gearhead as I was into scoots. 73 came around, got a job spinning wrenches at a local Honda shop (they did help with my MX addiction - buying parts at cost help A LOT) and Honda came out with the CR250M Elsinore - :Laugh::dancefool::clap2: - ordered and recieved the very first one in West Michigan and brother - did it KICK BUTT!!! 5 gear wheelies at the fingertips,, anytime - anywhere (being able to ride er on the back wheel is an MXer/dirt riders best item in their bag of tricks, so to speak - hit obstructions or obstacles with the front end up and you would be amazed at what you can go thru). Wore out that 1st Elsie in a two years and bought another new one. Quit racing when I got married and had kids BUT still competed amature occasionally with our local Club. Lots and lots of Enduro's and Harescrambles - occasional MX.. Always LOVED flyin the jumps and doublin whoops.. Jumped over to big bore's in the 80's - big ol torquey 2 strokes and LOVED their HP. Ran a KX500 I had made "street legal" till 2003 when I broke my back in a deer/car wreck. Had to divert to street only to stay out of a wheel chair,, mans gotta do what a mans gotta do..

Sheesh,, got me side tracked yakkin dirt and ran out of umph to even begin writing an essay about my opinion on riding out a flat.

 

,,, = pulled a MiRider and my thread :cool10::cool10:

 

Side note - I was pretty strange back in the day - here is a pic of my High School Graduation pic. ONLY way I was willing to get my pic taken

[slowrollwv]

I had a flat on my RSV at about 65 MPH. Rear tire got a 3 or 4" cut from a piece of metal in the road that I did not see. I let off the gas and road the clutch till I was able to stop. You can't stand up on a 2 nd gen too well as your feet are out front.

[camos]

I suspect this question relates more to a blowout rather than just a flat. Recently I had occasion to ride my VR for two days with no air in the tire front tire and for two days before that with probably not much.

 

A week earlier I had gotten a new tire mounted to my spare wheel. As I intended to re-pack the head bearings it was decided to mount the new tire afterwards. The next day I'm off to work for the first ride and it did not feel right. My assumption was that something had not gone together correctly so two days later I loosened everything off and reassembled the forks. Off to work the next day and it still steered like a truck only worse. This was a real puzzler, the job is so simple that I could not think of what had gone wrong, twice.

 

The next day It occurred to me to check the air pressure. It was at zero. Turned out the valve stem was faulty and had not been re-seated when the new tire was mounted. So this experience has been added to the growing list of my most embarrassing moments.

 

This whole thing was also very interesting in that I had no idea a tire would stand up to being ridden with no air in it. My ride to work is along a back road with a speed limit of 30 mph and I'm sure I did not go over 40 mph. The worst part was navigating through a couple of round abouts. Steering was very heavy in the corners and a little skittish on tar snakes but doable, not scary. Being one up with no other load was helpful but I expect the stiff side walls of the E3 were a big advantage too.

[cowpuc]

Even though I religiously check air pressures in my scoot tires and all that, I have had my fair share of flats - thankfully more rear than fronts. While never actually having gone down on one of my 1st Gens from such a malady I gotta say, just riding one down with a flat is enough to give me an adrenaline pump that will cause my heart to over rev for 2 days so I am avid about the air pressure maintenance and gazing at tire tread looking for problems (like nails or delamination) even when just getting fuel. Matter of fact,, I dont enjoy that type of excitement so much that I have even developed my form of monitoring my air pressures while in motion. I like to watch for cracks in the pavement and "listen" to the noise my tires make while passing over the cracks. By being mindful of the tires "normal" sounds - its amazing how one can detect low pressure just by hearing a "thump" instead of a "thud".. All done in an effort to avoid the need to go thru the hair raising, blood pressure increasing flat tire ride.

Rear tire flats. I have noticed with modern spokeless wheels that the probability of having a tire seperate from the wheel (break the bead) is greatly reduced. Had a blow out on a fully packed Harley with spoked wheels at speed out in Ventura California one time that took 4 lanes of highway to get er stopped - mainly because the tire came loose and half of it came free of the rim and the tube got tangled in the sprocket = what mess and what a handful. The several rear flats I have had on my MK1's have been no where near as exciting, as it were, do inpart to stiffer side walls but also to the "beads" IMHO..

Even on a complete instant blow-out like what happened to our scoot in the pic below (a 2 x 1" x 3/8th inch piece of steel went right thru a brand new Shinko near Johnson City TN - the steel was inside the tire when we broke it down) the ride down to safety was the same. Heard the "pop", felt the wiggle, leaned back and told Tip to set still we had a flat, bike was fairly stable (enough so that I reached up and turned on the 4 ways), apply no braking - let the engine braking bring it down while motioning traffic we had problems.. As usual - the excitement didn't begin until about 20 miles an hour - THIS IS NORMAL IMHO.. Ya get down into slower MPH and the bike wants to "drift" into a dog trackin fashion. This is where it would be real easy to try and steer out of it and over steer can be deadly. I like to just lightly feed counter steer into the dog tracking drift and lightly lead it to drift in the other direction. Generally speaking and after having several flat rear tires on the MK1's over the years - I have found that by tenderly guiding and controlling the drift a person can maintain control within one lane under most circumstances even when fully loaded and 2 up.

Tip n I had a rear flat on our Honda Helix a couple years. A Helix is just a little 250 "scooter" that is low slung and amazingly comfy for what it is. That flat tire taught me something about how bike design really does effect flat tire ride out.. I have had flats on everything from mopeds, dirt bikes, choppers, cruisers and full blown touring bikes and gotta say - THAT THING WAS A MONSTER!! Took ALL of a two lane road and then some ditch time to get er stopped without going over.. My fully loaded 2 up MK1's have been WAYYYYY less drama. After thinking about it and remembering my low riding, forward controlled Harley experience in California, I came to the theory that low center of gravity combined with forward controls is comfortable (I like both = gotta have my midship pegs cause I do like to stand up) but this may not be the best design for flat tire survival. The tire on the Helix did stay on the wheel and did not break the bead but WOW was that a rush..

Front flats are quite a bit different. Because its on the steer tire (I think) I never found the front to insist on doing the "drift" like a rear flat. More of a strong tendency to head shake/wobble at the bars and, once again, it worsens as you chop speed and load the front end. We have a "draw bridge" not far from us with steel grating on it,, a lot like the steel on the Mackinaw Bridge in Michigan that I LOVE riding on the steel section and peeking down thru the grating at the water far below.. Anyway,, probably sounds nuts but I compare the "feel" of a front flat to the "feel" of riding the grating - especially when flat at high speed. Lower speed or when things get dicey, what I do is lightly apply rear brake and work it against the clutch while keeping power on it so I can control front end rise. Its amazing how instantly you can control head shake and keep the bike up right by lifting the weight off occasionally. Having a tire break bead and or come off the wheel at speed is a TRUE monster. Had a 752 Dunlop on my KX500 split a side wall at speed down a powerline and it was an instant endo - I am sure there are talented folks out there that coulda pulled that one off but gotta say, it was WAYYY above my paygrade if possible.. The biggest thing with all of this, front or back (IMHO - consider the source), is to keep reminding yourself that your not in hurry to get the bike stopped - what your trying to do is get it stopped SAFELY and if it needs or takes some extra footage to get it done - take your time and ride it down..

 

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it!!

Edited November 6, 2016 by cowpuc

[snyper316]

@cowpuc was this tweaks in the early years?, because she sure does look like my ride.

[cowpuc]

Yep Snipe,, maiden voyage for a break in ride down to Tail of the Dragon and on down to Florida. Hadn't even earned her first stickers yet, just figuring out whether or not the old girl still had it in her..

[videoarizona]

I had a flat on the YDS6C at hiway speeds outside of Mineola Texas with me and my Air Force duffle bag crammed with military and civie clothes. On my way to Arizona after basic training. I had no clue what was happening..just slowing down with no power. Then the squirlies hit....I rode it out and I coasted to a stop...on the side of I-20. Looked down and rear was flat. Scary but doable. Fortunately, the scoot only weighed in a 300 pounds plus me and my gear. Not an 800 pound monster we now ride!

But that's my only experience with flats...hopefully my last....sigh.

[snyper316]

Well being our tires are like my 6ply trailer tires I had 2 flats on it one actually blew out with probably well over 2000 lbs in it. Now the side that simply went flat was a little warm with slight bulge the other side was shredded and after changing out that tire I was able to pull it about 3 miles and the front one went. I know you can't compare much from tandem axle trailer but when that front one went i felt the Jimmy take a squat but was still able to limp it to Wal-mart come to find out my step dad had put all the weight on the front of the trailer. Instead of a more balanced load but wowzer at 55mph was about all I could do to hold it on the road you talk about weave. Then there was a wobble heading down a hill 😱. I thought for sure when I let off the gas I thought for sure we was done. A hell of a vibration I thought for sure one of truck tires had went. Managed to get to a gas station checked air pressure and one tire had nothing the other was a bit overinflated but once I corrected air pressure no more craziness. Got back here and got it parked. The next morning he had it opened up and wow everything crammed in the front and some tools in the back and bunch of empty buckets. Not sure but other then pulling a couple bed trailers,boat,and a motorcycle trailer. I haven't had much experience but I would think you would load most weight from wheels to front but kind of counter in the back. Anyways pretty much input so far is same as I would do in car ease off gas and coast her home persay. Can't really panic save that for once your stopped. Sounds like the time I had a blow out in my 74 ford in mid curve at 65mph, mind you this is highway 19 between Salem and steelville mo. This curve had speed rating of 30 mph but when it let loose I looked outside the window all I could see was pavement spun a complete 180 and came to rest at the side of the road facing the wrong direction but perfectly parked. But I tell you it was scary as hell, got out of the car and laid down in the snow my heart in my throat and my stomach in my chest. Thanking the lord I lived. Man it was a beautiful moonlit night and glistening off the snow crazy how something like that slows you down.

 

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