First gen crash

[mralex714]

Is this the wobble I've heard some speak of?

 

[yamagrl]

That's Scary!

 

I have read or heard or seen a video or something, somewhere that said how to recover from that kind of wobble is to PUSH FORWARD ON THE HANDLEBARS REALLY HARD.

Knock on wood... I hope I never find out for sure.

[yamagrl]

I was just viewing a couple of other videos and one said to lay down on the tank that will change the weight distribution.

 

[garyS-NJ]

Lowering your c.g. might help more than pushing on the bars. I don't think this is the wobble that folks complain about but rather a high frequency shimmy of the handlebars on feel around 20-40 mph. Mostly with no hands it can be dampened by holding the grips. The video showed a snake weave that got out of control. My bike exhibits this behavior and exageratted with high speeds, heavy loads, top heavy loads, selection and pressure in tires and air in front forks. Road irregularities can set it off. I still need to check my swingarm and shock mounts better and need to do fork seals, but I think this is the nature of the bike.

 

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[93 venture]

I think this guy had a front tire blow out, if you wait till the end of the video they show a pic of the bike and it looks like the front fender is gone.

[garyS-NJ]

Haha. Just watched the video (after my comment). All spot on except I don't think its so much total weight (weave inversely proportional to rider mass) but rather a combination of c.g. and total weight as displaced from the bike c.g. fat dudes have fat ass and core closer to the bike cg which offsets the bikes own weight away from c.g.. But there's also a trailer weave issue which has it that a longer and heavier bike puts more load on the front wheel caster point. Bigger front wheels or higher front and or lower ass increases the trail and I found this to exaggerate snake weave. Funny I just bought a 79 gs1000 and a 77 gs750 wanting something bigger than my xj550 and less snake weavy than my venture at speeds and here the video shows those old bikes weaving. Can you post a YouTube link to that video to share?

 

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[yamagrl]

Haha. Just watched the video (after my comment). All spot on except I don't think its so much total weight (weave inversely proportional to rider mass) but rather a combination of c.g. and total weight as displaced from the bike c.g. fat dudes have fat ass and core closer to the bike cg which offsets the bikes own weight away from c.g.. But there's also a trailer weave issue which has it that a longer and heavier bike puts more load on the front wheel caster point. Bigger front wheels or higher front and or lower ass increases the trail and I found this to exaggerate snake weave. Funny I just bought a 79 gs1000 and a 77 gs750 wanting something bigger than my xj550 and less snake weavy than my venture at speeds and here the video shows those old bikes weaving. Can you post a YouTube link to that video to share?

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When I posted the link it came up as a video. I can pm or email it. You can also open it in Youtube by clicking the Youtube link in the bottom right corner of the video while it's playing.

 

I think the most important point about all of this is having a plan if the wobble starts! You have to know how to handle it Right Then.

You only have seconds to correct it before it gets out of control.

Edited October 23, 2016 by yamagrl
add info

[garyS-NJ]

Sometimes the onset can be fast but my bike gets "swimy" at high speeds it comes on slow with increased speed.. So yes, just lay down!

 

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[garyS-NJ]

And I found it on YouTube..

 

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[SilvrT]

I used to get a wobble (or maybe it was a weave) on my '87 that would come on slowly around 100mph and increase as the speed increased. I found that if I opened my legs wide so my knees were out into the wind the wobble would stop. I chalked that up to air turbulence against the trunk and bags.

[BlueSky]

A friend said he ran over a raccoon one night with his 78 CB750 Honda and it started weaving. He pushed as hard as he could on the handlebars and regained control. He said that if he had been riding his wing with its longer rake and trail, he would have lost it.

[cowpuc]

I think this guy had a front tire blow out, if you wait till the end of the video they show a pic of the bike and it looks like the front fender is gone.

 

Thought EXACTLY the same thing 93,, either a front or rear tire went flat = that would do it.. Loosing a front fender would do it too.. Have had LOTS of experience with the age old low speed wobble and, IMHO, this looks nothing like what that is all about.. That wobble dissappears once ya get over 45 (or less) and is easily controllable by not letting go of the bars..

I do gotta say though,, I have had death wobbles like that at high speeds (had Honda 1100f that had that propensity) and it can come about from several things.. Loose fairings, worn fork bushings, low air pressure in tires to name a few.. Had a buddy get killed when his drinking cup fell out of its holder (why I only use Styro foam to this day) and found its way down between the yoke and frame - I just betcha a front fender coming loose could have the same affect..

Seems like I remember @Flyinfool experiencing the affects of a loose front fender?

No matter why,,,, I hope the rider came out ok on that one = NASTY CRASH!!!!

[cowpuc]

Yea,, go back to :35 and watch carefully and you can tell he either had a blow out or he hit something in the road.. I watched it several times and it doesnt appear to be a road flaw that makes him jar - also nothing standing on the side of road (like a deer) waiting to cream him.. The "wobble" started right after that little bounce.. Have experienced blow outs like that (if thats what it is) and can tell ya,,, it will sure make for a not so much fun ride!!!!!!!

[camos]

The first real highway riding I had done on the Venture was when I rode my 90 VR to Cody. It was necessary to keep under 70 mph in a curve or it would start to weave. Backing off the throttle stopped the weaving. It was a very spooky feeling.

 

After I got back home I re-did the steering head bearings and that fixed it. Had the bike up to 110 mph and was solid as a rocket. Had the 89 up to only 95 mph and it handled just fine but it was almost brand new.

[snyper316]

Ok I watched the video's My only question is this. What is the best way to handle a blow out on a bike? I have had them on those skinny ten speed tires. Never a motorcycle and I tell you it sounds like a 22 pistol going off when you have a blow out on a bicycle and it gets squirrely but your talking what 10-40 miles an hour on a bike. Now if I am going down the interstate at 60-70 and have a blow out I would assume let off the throttle and no sudden braking. Would you want to tighten up on the handle bars, Loosen up on the handle bars, or Bail? I have had blow outs on cars and everyone starts to scream STOP!!!! all i ever did in that situation was if it was front hold the wheel straight and decelerate and pull off the side of the road, and if it was a rear tire just kind let it do its thing and let off the gas. But I have never seen anyone tell me what the best thing to do when you have a flat on a motorcycle.

[garyS-NJ]

A friend said he ran over a raccoon one night with his 78 CB750 Honda and it started weaving. He pushed as hard as he could on the handlebars and regained control. He said that if he had been riding his wing with its longer rake and trail, he would have lost it.

Wow, I have a 78 cb750 and hit a palette at night on the highway coming around a turn doing 70mph. I pushed one bar hard and leaned to avoid it and when I realized I couldnt, I straighted up to hit it square and went airborne for about 150 feet and continue on. No wobble or weave. Btw, the video says. Don't try to push on the bars but rather just bring your weight low on the tank.

 

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[garyS-NJ]

The first real highway riding I had done on the Venture was when I rode my 90 VR to Cody. It was necessary to keep under 70 mph in a curve or it would start to weave. Backing off the throttle stopped the weaving. It was a very spooky feeling.

 

After I got back home I re-did the steering head bearings and that fixed it. Had the bike up to 110 mph and was solid as a rocket. Had the 89 up to only 95 mph and it handled just fine but it was almost brand new.

My 84 weaved bad in turns at speed when,i got it... New tires and tweaked neck bearings made it much better.

 

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[Marcarl]

His weave \wobble started at about 28, just as he was passing the other bike, then he increased speed to pass the car on the right and lost it. That bike was not all that stable from the start. It was wiggling the whole time, and he didn't pay attention to it.

I suppose we are assuming that everything was perfect on that scoot, that could be an error on our part. There could have been loose steering head, swing arm issues, worn tires, bad shocks,,, lots of stuff that could contribute to this.

[93 venture]

Ok I watched the video's My only question is this. What is the best way to handle a blow out on a bike? I have had them on those skinny ten speed tires. Never a motorcycle and I tell you it sounds like a 22 pistol going off when you have a blow out on a bicycle and it gets squirrely but your talking what 10-40 miles an hour on a bike. Now if I am going down the interstate at 60-70 and have a blow out I would assume let off the throttle and no sudden braking. Would you want to tighten up on the handle bars, Loosen up on the handle bars, or Bail? I have had blow outs on cars and everyone starts to scream STOP!!!! all i ever did in that situation was if it was front hold the wheel straight and decelerate and pull off the side of the road, and if it was a rear tire just kind let it do its thing and let off the gas. But I have never seen anyone tell me what the best thing to do when you have a flat on a motorcycle.

Look for a soft spot to crash

[camos]

Btw, the video says. Don't try to push on the bars but rather just bring your weight low on the tank.

In the video the guy is talking about bikes that are inherently unstable. Changing weight distribution might work in that case. Hard to believe such poorly designed vehicles could be allowed to be sold. In the case of the hapless Venture, which are not naturally unstable at any speed except stopped, it probably had a flat tire or some other failure.

 

In a situation such as you experienced I am be doubtful leaning forward would rectify the situation. Pushing forward on both bars would definitely be my choice. Preferably going straight although some modification of that might be necessary if in a sharp corner. I have bumped over a couple of unknown things on my Virago and my Venture but nothing so dramatic as a pallet. That would be like using up one of your 9 lives, if you were a cat that is. Only experienced a bit of a wobble before the bikes straightened out.

[garyS-NJ]

On an old Harley I had a tank slapper at 70 and just rode it like I was riding a dirt bike in sand

 

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[garyS-NJ]

In the video the guy is talking about bikes that are inherently unstable. Changing weight distribution might work in that case. Hard to believe such poorly designed vehicles could be allowed to be sold. In the case of the hapless Venture, which are not naturally unstable at any speed except stopped, it probably had a flat tire or some other failure.

 

In a situation such as you experienced I am be doubtful leaning forward would rectify the situation. Pushing forward on both bars would definitely be my choice. Preferably going straight although some modification of that might be necessary if in a sharp corner. I have bumped over a couple of unknown things on my Virago and my Venture but nothing so dramatic as a pallet. That would be like using up one of your 9 lives, if you were a cat that is. Only experienced a bit of a wobble before the bikes straightened out.

The guy in the video said all bikes weave at some speed and rider mass combination. And he accurately addressed front end shimmy. And seems they did some good weave experiments and said pushing on the bars don't help anything.. Weave to me feels like riding on a bridge or in sand where stiff arm push would be disastrous.. And I had one bad rank slapper which is basically weave gone bad and assure you there was no pushing on those bars.. The video guy addressed the source of the problem from one standpoint and provided a remedy.

 

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[camos]

The guy in the video said all bikes weave at some speed and rider mass combination. And he accurately addressed front end shimmy. And seems they did some good weave experiments and said pushing on the bars don't help anything.. Weave to me feels like riding on a bridge or in sand where stiff arm push would be disastrous.. And I had one bad rank slapper which is basically weave gone bad and assure you there was no pushing on those bars.. The video guy addressed the source of the problem from one standpoint and provided a remedy.

 

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I guess I don't believe all bikes weave. From my admittedly limited experience, pushing on both bars at the same time quiets down an induced weave caused by running over something. I am not saying it will work on an inherent weave caused by bad design or worn components. Pushing on both bars at the same time will stop the front wheel from pivoting and also prevent the rider from trying to counteract the weave by adjusting the steering which due to reaction time will probably only make it worse.

[gggGary]

Yes firm push forward on both grips has worked for me to damp out both wobble and weave situations.

 

Back in about 1974 on an early XS650 Survival was not a given when it happened to me at 80 MPH. The front tire was hopping up in the air and landing a few inches to one side and then the other. In that situation PUSHING forward hard on both handlebars will go long way to damp out the oscillations. Pulling on the bars will make it worse. Figuring that out on the fly was a matter of luck that probably saved a lot of hide if not my life.

Watch your loading, while I don't have any photos the event above was during a March spring break trip to Florida and back from Wisconsin. I can only guess there was a bunch of stuff tied to the luggage rack.

Prolly Dunlaps, tread cupping can cause weave. That weave wobble video is

all old bikes on Dunlops, just say'n....

[camos]

Yes firm push forward on both grips has worked for me to damp out both wobble and weave situations.

Another thing I thought of, when probably 98% of people lean forward on a bike they support their weight on their hands which would effectively be pushing on both bars. I'm not saying changing the weight distribution had nothing to do with it but often the first conclusions drawn are not necessarily the correct ones.

 

It also occurred to me that the way Puc loads up Tweeks would probably contribute to weave and probably wheel hop so it is likely he could have more to say on this topic.