Electrical question/ problem

[ragtop69gs]

Please see my post in second gen tech, titled "Problem after stator install".

 

My audio controller back light is lit with the key off!

 

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[ragtop69gs]

OK Jay, for starts, the R/G line is the backlight power for all the dash, etc I think. Pull the fuse for the odometer located on fuse block 2 and tell me if the light goes out...

I'll do it in the morning then report back. Thanks

 

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[bongobobny]

No, my bad Jay, that's the backup line for memory. Give me a few minutes...

[bongobobny]

OK you're not gonna like this, but we need to determine if the voltage for the backlight is coming from the master unit or the wiring harness, this involves splitting the fairing. There is a multi pin connector, like with 17 wires coming in it that connects to the main audio unit. Disconnect that and see if the light goes out. That will eliminate 4 out of the 6 wires going to the controller. There are two more wires, the L/G and P/B wires that go through another connector en route to the master unit...

 

You sure have a toughie there buddy!! When your key is off, only voltage going to the memory backup should be there, which I think/ass u me goes through the odometer fuse I was looking at earlier. I guess pulling that fuse may give us a clue IF the light goes out with it pulled and the keys in your pocket...

[cowpuc]

OK you're not gonna like this, but we need to determine if the voltage for the backlight is coming from the master unit or the wiring harness, this involves splitting the fairing. There is a multi pin connector, like with 17 wires coming in it that connects to the main audio unit. Disconnect that and see if the light goes out. That will eliminate 4 out of the 6 wires going to the controller. There are two more wires, the L/G and P/B wires that go through another connector en route to the master unit...

 

You sure have a toughie there buddy!! When your key is off, only voltage going to the memory backup should be there, which I think/ass u me goes through the odometer fuse I was looking at earlier. I guess pulling that fuse may give us a clue IF the light goes out with it pulled and the keys in your pocket...

 

I LOVE Bongo's "Electronic's 101" classes!!!!

[ragtop69gs]

I did clean a few of the large connectors under the gas tank, I'll start by cleaning the di-electric grease off those.

 

I didn't clean or touch any connections inside the fairing. Only under the tank and down by the stator plug. Everything else on the bike works as it should.

 

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[ragtop69gs]

When I disconnect the large white connector under the tank the light on the controller goes out. I cleaned all the connectors under tank, no difference. The radio is powered and will work with the key off.

Edited October 4, 2016 by ragtop69gs

[bongobobny]

OK I'm awake! Well, let's try the "odometer" fuse on fuse block 2 first. See your owner's manual for location of the fuse block and which fuse it is. First we will discover the source of the voltage causing it to light up and work from there...

[bongobobny]

OK after that, the next step will be to follow the cable from the controller into the fairing and disconnecting the connector. Then with a voltmeter to ground find out which pin on the connector that the connector from the controller plugs into has the 12 volts on it and what color wire it is. According to the wiring diagram here on site the colors are Black (ground), Green/Yellow, White/Yellow, Pink/Black, and Blue/Green.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/wiring/99-09%20Yamaha%20Royal%20Star%20Venture%20Wiring%20Diagram%20Rev%20B.pdf

[ragtop69gs]

Here is what i have found happening, when I unplug the white connector while the control is lit it shuts off , when i plug it bak in it stays off, if I touch the starter button with the key on the controller lights up again and then has power even when the key is off.

 

I have to run out but will follow your instructions when I can get back at it.

 

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[bongobobny]

WOW!! Strange stuff!!!!!

[bongobobny]

I am assuming the white connector is the "D" connector shown on the wiring diagram. The stuff with the ignition and start switch is a clue, yes I need to know what wire the 12 volts is on with your symptom. Make sure you have the issue active when you get to the controller harness...

[bongobobny]

What I am starting to suspect is an issue within the radio master box. Now, when you disconnect the big white connector what you are doing is removing ALL connections to that master box. This in essence resets all the circuitry inside that box. You should see the same results by disconnecting the battery. OK with key on it energises the box and if the system is on turns on the backlight. Now normally when you turn off the key it extinguishes the backlight, but the master box still has the live 12 volts for memory backup, and I am suspecting some kind of issue in the box that is keeping the 12 volts applied to the backlight. After you give me the results of my pre-suggested tests I will have a better idea what's going on. Unfortunately I do not have schematics for the actual radio/intercom system available, just the Yamaha wiring diagram from the service manual.

 

Anyway, if my suspicions are correct, it's a good thing you have Jeanie's trike available to swap out the master box to confirm this if it comes to that. If it is indeed the master box, when you put it in Jeanie's trike the symptom should appear there, and her unit (Thought I was going to say "box" didn't you?!!?) should make your bike work properly again...

[ragtop69gs]

Fuse block under left cover, lite goes out when I pull the back up 10A fuse.

 

When you say radio master box are you talking about the remote on the bars?

[ragtop69gs]

I am assuming the white connector is the "D" connector shown on the wiring diagram. The stuff with the ignition and start switch is a clue, yes I need to know what wire the 12 volts is on with your symptom. Make sure you have the issue active when you get to the controller harness...

 

 

So I should check this with the key off and connector plugged in while the backlite is lit.?

[cowpuc]

:icon_lurker:,,, ,,,,

 

All of a sudden the :lightbulb:comes on in the pea brain of the sitting in the back row of Bongo's classroom.. His hand flies up as he blurts out: Oh,, oh,, Mr. Cotter,, Mr. Cotter,, what are the chances that this problem was happening BEFORE the Stator was replaced,,, possibly a key switch - if so, could this have been the problem all along - any chance Raggy,, maybe running down the battery? Or,,, if it happened afterwards,, what are the chances that the wire harness got pinched when the tank was replaced.

 

Mr. Cotter,, could you also give the class your thoughts on using Dielectric grease across areas that are suppose to be infinity on the ohmers?

 

Sorry guys,, I'll shut up,,, think the rev limiter in my new tuner may be set to high.. Just tell ol Horshack Puc to shut up, sit down and pay attention in class:happy34:..

 

CAN NOT WAIT TO HEAR THE SOLUTION TO THIS MYSTERY!!

[bongobobny]

So I should check this with the key off and connector plugged in while the backlite is lit.?

Well, that would be helpful,I just suggested unplugging the controller first so that it would be easy to get to the pins on the connector that supplies the connector to the control box. If you can get to the pins without disconnecting the connector then great, I just need to know what wire colors the voltage appears.

 

No, the Master box is the box above the cassette deck, which is like the main brains and/or guts to the complete radio/audio system. The controller is really just a box with switches in it, and maybe a keyboard matrix IC, it is a slave unit...

 

Yes, that is actually good information to know that the 12 volts is somehow coming from the memory back up supply, and makes sense as that voltage is present at all times as long as there is a battery in the bike! Now to figure out how that voltage is getting onto the backlight line, which is why I need too know what wire is for the backlight. When you find the voltage, do the "reset" thing with the white connector and confirm the voltage goes away until you key on again!

 

Yes Pucster, it is quite possible something went amiss around the same time as the stator bit the big one, and they are most likely unrelated, just a coincidence! I am sort of thinking that it was not any result of Jay's connector servicing but hey, you never know. If he would have induced some kind of a short I kind of doubt that when he disconnects and reconnects that main white connector that the light would go out and stay out until key on. As soon as I know what wire supplies the voltage to the handlebar slave unit backlight then I can study the schematic alittle more and try to isolate where the issue is coming from, but more and more I am thinking something amiss in the main unit...

 

Although I doubt it, maybe there is something in the handlebar unit causing the issue but unfortunately we won't know until we start swapping out components to isolate the failure source...

[ragtop69gs]

Bob, after a reset by unplugging the white connector, just turning the key on does NOT light up the backlight, it only lights up again if i hit the starter button (even a tap on it) and then will not go off till i either disconnect the battery or plug.

 

Not only is it back lit but the whole stereo is powered and will work with the key off!

 

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Edited October 4, 2016 by ragtop69gs

[cowpuc]

Bob, after a reset by unplugging the white connector, just turning the key on does NOT light up the backlight, it only lights up again if i hit the starter button (even a tap on it) and then will not go off till i either disconnect the battery or plug.

 

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Sticky relay somewhere?

[bongobobny]

Hmmmmm, the plot thickens!!! The radio should be able to be powered up with key in accessory position! Now with disconnecting the battery or connector it may turn off the audio/radio but it should turn on normally with key on accessory.

 

This is valuable information for analyzing the problem...

 

Now, without hitting the starter button, just on the accessory position, will the radio turn on and off normally?? This is also good info for figuring out what's going on. Also, with just the accessory position, does the backlight come on and go off with turning the unit on and off?? Consult your owner manual for instructions on turning the unit on and off...

 

OK another thing to try while doing that check, does the CB turn on and off as well??

 

PS sorry I missed your call, was getting the cage inspected and oil changed, and Becky was out walking with her friend...

[ragtop69gs]

Hmmmmm, the plot thickens!!! The radio should be able to be powered up with key in accessory position! Now with disconnecting the battery or connector it may turn off the audio/radio but it should turn on normally with key on accessory. See below comments.

 

This is valuable information for analyzing the problem...

 

Now, without hitting the starter button, just on the accessory position, will the radio turn on and off normally?? Yes, But only if it's backlit already. If it's dark, NO

This is also good info for figuring out what's going on. Also, with just the accessory position, does the backlight come on and go off with turning the unit on and off?? backlight stays on.

 

Consult your owner manual for instructions on turning the unit on and off... Really! I'm well aware of the proper operation of the radio & CB

 

OK another thing to try while doing that check, does the CB turn on and off as well?? Yes

 

PS sorry I missed your call, was getting the cage inspected and oil changed, and Becky was out walking with her friend...

 

 

 

 

I answered your questions above.

[cowpuc]

Hey Raggy,, just thought of something else - may or may not be applicable,, no idea if the 2nd Gens have passenger controls on the system? If so,, any chance you may have some "ON" back there that is turning on the system when you hit the switch.. Hope ya got it figured out brother..

[bongobobny]

Yah Puc, considered the possibility myself but all the rear controller does is adjust the headphone volume for the rear passenger, and has a PTT switch for CB...

[yamagrl]

Bob, after a reset by unplugging the white connector, just turning the key on does NOT light up the backlight, it only lights up again if i hit the starter button (even a tap on it) and then will not go off till i either disconnect the battery or plug.

Not only is it back lit but the whole stereo is powered and will work with the key off!

 

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What I am starting to suspect is an issue within the radio master box. Now, when you disconnect the big white connector what you are doing is removing ALL connections to that master box. This in essence resets all the circuitry inside that box. You should see the same results by disconnecting the battery. OK with key on it energises the box and if the system is on turns on the backlight. Now normally when you turn off the key it extinguishes the backlight, but the master box still has the live 12 volts for memory backup, and I am suspecting some kind of issue in the box that is keeping the 12 volts applied to the backlight. After you give me the results of my pre-suggested tests I will have a better idea what's going on. Unfortunately I do not have schematics for the actual radio/intercom system available, just the Yamaha wiring diagram from the service manual.

 

Anyway, if my suspicions are correct, it's a good thing you have Jeanie's trike available to swap out the master box to confirm this if it comes to that. If it is indeed the master box, when you put it in Jeanie's trike the symptom should appear there, and her unit (Thought I was going to say "box" didn't you?!!?) should make your bike work properly again...

 

 

 

Hey Guys, may I chime in here...

 

I think Bob may be onto something. As I read through the thread and looked at the Wiring Diagram and the Simplified Diagram I kept coming back to maybe something going haywire in the Master Control Unit.

I have no clue as to the relationship of the starting circuit to the radio via the L/W.

 

From a strictly conceptual stand point ...looking at the screenshot of the simplified it seems like when the start switch is bumped something in the MCU is improperly energized and remains so until the current is interrupted. That doesn't seem right.

 

The R/G is always hot but is supposed to have a very limited function, at least when the key is off. When the starter switch is tapped the L/W energizes something in there causing the radio to get power from the R/G. It kinda has to be. Because the Br/W is the main power from the Audio fuse and is only hot when the key is ON or on ACC.

 

it would be interesting to see what happens if another MCU were plugged in.

 

YG

 

[ragtop69gs]

Thanks YG, I am going to swap MCU's today . I am lucky enough to have 2 RSV's here. Probably won't be done with it till tomorrow because that darn Work keeps getting in the way.

 

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